evanski Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Teehee Cool article on feeding coral and recovery. Feeding corals brine shrimp significantly increased the fragged corals' size compared to controls. Additionally, in terms of cost/growth ratio, the cost of feeding the corals was pretty low and is sustainable. http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0098529 It's science, Bishes! Lemme know how the sand vacuuming goes. WIll take my sand for a wash later this month. Found out flow is VERY important for zoanthid health. My pump went all wonky and flow was WAY down. Turns out some of my zoas were closed just because of that. Increased flow and BAM! New pishures on my 2G thread. Go look! Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 It's science, Bishes! Lemme know how the sand vacuuming goes. WIll take my sand for a wash later this month. Found out flow is VERY important for zoanthid health. My pump went all wonky and flow was WAY down. Turns out some of my zoas were closed just because of that. Increased flow and BAM! New pishures on my 2G thread. Go look! I knew flow was important for zoas. Hopefully these ones will be ok. The other unhappy ones have been in high and low flow, and they aren't responding. Lame. As far as the vacuuming, I need to figure out the best way. I realized that I don't have a ton of room for a large gravel vac head in between the rocks. I'm hoping the CUC will help me out a bit I'll check the pictures soon on your thread. Link to comment
evanski Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I knew flow was important for zoas. Hopefully these ones will be ok. The other unhappy ones have been in high and low flow, and they aren't responding. Lame. As far as the vacuuming, I need to figure out the best way. I realized that I don't have a ton of room for a large gravel vac head in between the rocks. I'm hoping the CUC will help me out a bit I'll check the pictures soon on your thread. I think Nassarius will be your friend fo sand stirring...although I think they are more carnivore than detrivore. Any chance you have nudis in your zoanthids? Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Like I always say, moar flow is moar better. I think Nassarius will be your friend fo sand stirring...although I think they are more carnivore than detrivore. Yep, the most that they'll do for detritus, IMHO, is get it suspended and let your filtration take care of it. Link to comment
evanski Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Like I always say, moar flow is moar better. Yep, the most that they'll do for detritus, IMHO, is get it suspended and let your filtration take care of it. Always fun to see them "surface" when you feed! Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 I think Nassarius will be your friend fo sand stirring...although I think they are more carnivore than detrivore. Any chance you have nudis in your zoanthids? I don't think so. Haven't seen anything like that and I've been looking. I have also been checking for pox, but I don't see anything like that. I really think it's the amphipods. They crawl all over the zoas and even stop on them. It looks like they are nibbling, but I don't think that's the case. I think they are just running over the face/mouth and irritating them. As for the green back packer-whatever-they-are unhappy ones, I have no idea. They were great for a few weeks, then they just up and decided to be angry. I've had clean water, dirty water, low flow, high flow, lower light, high light and nothing seems to make them happy. I've tried spot feeding, tank feeding, dipping, leaving alone. On the sand bed, glued to rock. Everything I can think of. Like I always say, moar flow is moar better. Yep, the most that they'll do for detritus, IMHO, is get it suspended and let your filtration take care of it. More flow is great in the tank, but the koralia nano was just too much. The watermelon zoas and GSP liked it. No one else did. I'm keeping flow pretty moderate now with the AC30 impeller on full blast and the little 69 gph rio. I would like to find a better location for the extra pump now, though. I think it might be suited better elsewhere. As far as the snails, I figured that would be as much as I would get out of them. I may have to look into a power vac thingy. I'd like to try the water bottle spout idea, but I don't think there is enough room for me to actually make that work. We shall see. I have some tinkering to do. Link to comment
evanski Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Like I always say, moar flow is moar better. In general I agree...but then again I have sheared off a head of LPS against the skeleton once! Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 In general I agree...but then again I have sheared off a head of LPS against the skeleton once! In that case, less flow moar better Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 In general I agree...but then again I have sheared off a head of LPS against the skeleton once! Were you using an actual fan for your flow or something? Sheesh! Link to comment
evanski Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Were you using an actual fan for your flow or something? Sheesh! Nope...just a HUGE ball of frogspawn right in front of a powerhead. Only lost the one head, but was instructive on the fact that you have to be careful with flow with LPS! Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Nope...just a HUGE ball of frogspawn right in front of a powerhead. Only lost the one head, but was instructive on the fact that you have to be careful with flow with LPS! Yeah, when I had the koralia, the hammer/ric/yuma/kenya were all really unhappy and the flow wasn't even ON them, just near them. The watermelon zoas and the GSP loved it. The angry zoas don't like anything, apparently. I'll rescue them somehow!!!!! The dragon eyes I hope make a recovery. I just saw my old FTS and I miss their color and vibrance Link to comment
gena Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Cool, you're a saltwater convert . Yesterday we went for a late afternoon walk and I looked over and saw a saltwater reef tank inside someones garage . I got so excited LOL. There were people in there looking at it. I didn't, but I was so tempted to walk up to them and start a conversation and check out the tank. I really should have . I know where the house is though for next time. Next time I'm going to introduce myself . Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Cool, you're a saltwater convert . Yesterday we went for a late afternoon walk and I looked over and saw a saltwater reef tank inside someones garage . I got so excited LOL. There were people in there looking at it. I didn't, but I was so tempted to walk up to them and start a conversation and check out the tank. I really should have . I know where the house is though for next time. Next time I'm going to introduce myself . The one guy I got into it has a JBJ rimless 30, a 40B, a 5g "timeout tank" for his misbehaving critters, and a 25g high, lol. He did that all within 3 months of me showing him my 12g. Here is my dream set up at this moment (Disclaimer: dream subject to change at OP's will): My goal (now that my wife is on board with the drilled/sumped pico) is to have one main display tank - 2-3g cube - drilled through the bottom so it hides an overflow/return in the center back. The tank will drain into a 5g sump with baffles, a fuge, and a return. I may or may not use a skimmer (probably won't with such a small volume), but I could always add the AC70 on to the side for added filtration. ~5 gallons total. Coral/inverts only in this case (fish will be moved, see below). This option may get bumped to a 4-5g cube with a 10g sump, total of 8-9 gallons. Light will be a nanobox Tide, wood grain caps and brown/light brown paint (I'd prefer all brown wood grain, but I don't know if Dave can do that) with a blue fish controller. Then I plan to set up a second tank, either a 5.5g with added AIO back chambers or a fluval spec V. I haven't decided on lighting yet, possibly a small T5 set up. This one will only have egg crate on 4 legs across the bottom with some eheim biopellets and it will be a ricordea/zoa frag tank. I'll put the small damsel in here, where it will be fed and thus feed the coral. Link to comment
metrokat Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 The amphipods are now all over the zoas because they sense a decline and ultimate death and are opportunistic critters like everybody else. Create a make shift frag rack. Dip the zoas in fresh water, just shake it in a cup of FW for a few seconds (temperature match it) and then put them on the frag rack. Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 The amphipods are now all over the zoas because they sense a decline and ultimate death and are opportunistic critters like everybody else. Create a make shift frag rack. Dip the zoas in fresh water, just shake it in a cup of FW for a few seconds (temperature match it) and then put them on the frag rack. Even the healthy ones? They crawl all over the watermelons and they are doing just fine. What is the FW supposed to do in this case? Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Even the healthy ones? They crawl all over the watermelons and they are doing just fine. What is the FW supposed to do in this case? Makes them go HOLY SHIIIIITTTTTTTTTTT and they fly off of it. Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Makes them go HOLY SHIIIIITTTTTTTTTTT and they fly off of it. I did that with melafix already. Got rid of 10ish. They are colonized again I'll try the FW dip, I guess. Do we actually think there is a way to rescue the dragon eyes? What about the green-bay-packer-grumpy-faces? Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 This tank is going to be my zen/meditation practice in patience, lol. I need to be more hands-off and more patient. I just want the zoas to be healthy and grow! Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 Well, now I know the origin of the chemical smell coming from my water... Salinity: 1.024 Temp: 81 (normally 78) Ammonia: 0 Nitrite: 0.25ppm Womp womp Nitrate: 5-10ppm!! Oh noes! Looks like the tank is having trouble with the bioload. I'm going to have to keep an eye on it. I may have to take some of the snails out. Did manage to get some pictures tonight before the lights went out, though. Current fts: New LED for the chaeto in the fuge: Unhappy dragon eyes New punk rocker that I got for 5 bucks New Ric, too. So, things are in some ways good, other ways bad. I've gotta keep up on the water quality, though. I wonder if my salt is bad? It's clumpy and damp and stuff. I got a new, actually air-tight, container for it (Hey there Bed Bath and Beyond, thanks!). It's probably just a heavy bioload too quick. I hope the snails don't crash it. Talk about an epic failure - who loses a pico to snails? The temperature is too high, too. I've got a fan that I can put in the room and help take care of it, I think. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 What bioload? The snails add nothing unless you are purposely feeding them. If you are not putting nutrients into the tank through feeding, your bioload remains at zero. Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 What bioload? The snails add nothing unless you are purposely feeding them. If you are not putting nutrients into the tank through feeding, your bioload remains at zero. I fed pretty heavily a couple of weeks ago - just before the smell. Maybe it's the remainder of that? I've done 2 water changes since, a 20% and now a 40%. I've added the snails since. As far as the bioload being zero, I don't think that's the case. I haven't been feeding, but if the snails are eating algae from the glass and detritus from the sand bed, they are producing waste. Barry could be producing waste, too. I went from 3 snails and a crab to a crab and ~70 snails. There was a massive increase in bioload. Some of them might have died, too. Either way, I have a water quality issue right now. Link to comment
metrokat Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 This goes against everything you have ever heard me say: stop feeding your tank. There is nothing in there to consume the full or half cube of food you are throwing in. Mushrooms, zoos, leathers and Xenia do not have mouths big enough to ingest anything other than micro fine powdered foods. Further some of the corals being pissed off makes for even less corals that are ingesting the food you feed. Snails do not add much of a bio load, this tank is 6 months old, the bio filter can handle it. From the picture it seems like everything is doing just fine except 1-2 of the zoa clusters. Zoas are least understood when it cons to what pisses it off. It could be great and then melt for no apparent reason. Toss the frags that won't ever open or just let them be. Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 This goes against everything you have ever heard me say: stop feeding your tank. There is nothing in there to consume the full or half cube of food you are throwing in. Mushrooms, zoos, leathers and Xenia do not have mouths big enough to ingest anything other than micro fine powdered foods. Further some of the corals being pissed off makes for even less corals that are ingesting the food you feed. Snails do not add much of a bio load, this tank is 6 months old, the bio filter can handle it. From the picture it seems like everything is doing just fine except 1-2 of the zoa clusters. Zoas are least understood when it cons to what pisses it off. It could be great and then melt for no apparent reason. Toss the frags that won't ever open or just let them be. I'm not feeding anything other than about 1ml of phyto since last week. Even when I did the cube, it was a cube into 25ml of phyto, and I only spot fed a bit (a few squirts in the tank from a 5ml syringe). I didn't use a whole cube for the tank I'm holding off on the phyto for a while though. No need right now and it'll just make the water worse. I think I may chuck the green-bay-packer-whatever-they-are frags. They aren't melted, but when one or two of the heads rarely opens up, they barely even have skirts. I hate to say it, but I think it's taking up space for no benefit. Maybe I'll just relegate them to the corner or something. The dragon eyes have started melting along the back of the cluster. The front (that can be seen in the pictures) are just closed. I think they'll be fine. Current protocol: No feeding, regular water changes, regular testing for Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. No phosphates came up in my testing tonight, and I didn't bother with Ca or Mg. Those aren't that important right now. I'm sitting in lab right now trying to be patient Link to comment
Polarcollision Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I don't think so. Haven't seen anything like that and I've been looking. I have also been checking for pox, but I don't see anything like that. I really think it's the amphipods. They crawl all over the zoas and even stop on them. It looks like they are nibbling, but I don't think that's the case. I think they are just running over the face/mouth and irritating them. Do they look like this? I watched the little ****** EAT A ZOA. With my own eyes. They like the small zoas, no palys. Though most of the time it looked like they just ran over/around/on them. I feed a ton more in the bigger tank and they no longer eat my zoas. The wrasse eats their babies too. I keep 'dirty' water. Nitrates between 1-5, phosphates higher than SPS are supposed to like. Every one of my zoas grows gangbusters. Not meant to rub anything in, but just to say that I think zoas like dirty water. I feed the palys mysis, and the whole reef gets reef chilli. Tell myself they need lots of nutrients to build new polyps with. Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 Do they look like this? I watched the little ****** EAT A ZOA. With my own eyes. They like the small zoas, no palys. Though most of the time it looked like they just ran over/around/on them. I feed a ton more in the bigger tank and they no longer eat my zoas. The wrasse eats their babies too. I keep 'dirty' water. Nitrates between 1-5, phosphates higher than SPS are supposed to like. Every one of my zoas grows gangbusters. Not meant to rub anything in, but just to say that I think zoas like dirty water. I feed the palys mysis, and the whole reef gets reef chilli. Tell myself they need lots of nutrients to build new polyps with. Yep. Those are the amphipods I have. I have copepods and stuff on my glass but those are fine. I know zoas like dirtier water, I'm trying to balance just how dirty so the other corals don't suffer either Link to comment
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