Jedi's Science Reef

[eitallent]

How long have you had the razors? Are you giving them enough of a chance before deciding to spend your hard earned money else where? Itseems like you have made up your mind to switch. and I am wondering what else other than the electrical short has made you decide against them.

[jedimaster1138]

How long have you had the razors? Are you giving them enough of a chance before deciding to spend your hard earned money else where? Itseems like you have made up your mind to switch. and I am wondering what else other than the electrical short has made you decide against them.

 

A very reasonable question. I haven't made up my mind at all. I'm just trying to decide on exactly what I would do, if I do it. I've had the Razors about 6 months.

 

The electrical short/overheating component (my $ is on a blown out 5 cent capacitor being the root of the whole thing) is what it is. Things break. As long as it's supported and dealt with, I can live with it. 14 years in IT, I'm used to it. Yeah it's annoying that I still don't have the parts, but this isn't one of my SAN components at the job with 24x7x365x4 hour mission critical drop the baby and get over here with a new controller card support. As long as I get the parts by Friday at the latest (still hoping for tomorrow) I can deal. (The call was placed on Monday) The bigger question of "are these things going to be breaking down regularly?" is slightly buzzing in the back of my mind because I'm a cynic especially about mass produced made in a sweat shop overseas tech, but by itself, unless it becomes a habit, won't force me to change by itself...yet.

 

My only complaint right now is slow/no growth and not great color from the various acropora frags I have/have had for at least 3-5 months. Some, have done well (Red Dragon is deep red, white growth tips, tons of new growth - it's also a "deeper water" species) Other genus like Montipora digi grow like a weed as do the Stylophoras, Seriatopas, M. Setosa...LPS. Polyps (except my big Sour Apple paly colony has recently decided to stay closed 100% of the time) Others, all acro...ORA Marshall Island blue and green is basically washed out tan green with a little blue. it has 1/10th of the color it had when I took it out of the shipping bag. Shades of Fall nasuta looks...OK. Washed out mostly. A tiny bit of growth. Tyree Tierra del Fuego...lost some color, some PE, next to no growth, if any. I did just notice my Jason Fox Unknown acro looking like it's sprouting a new branch and increasing it's encrusting. ORA Pearlberry...nothing that I can see which is disappointing. I started it lower, saw very little color, no growth. Moved it up to blast it with light and it's slightly looked better, but nothing to write home about. Tyree Ultimate Stag came in deep blue with light blue/green tips...right now it's a deep purple with no growth tips at all.

 

I don't know. Maybe it's just adjustment period issues for the acropora. ORA Blue Voodoo took off and is growing well in moderate light. I got that maybe a month after my tank was up and the chemical parameters were a mess. Maybe it's tank new-ness. I just don't want to sit around on these lights for too long and have my acro's not grow much, or at all, when I could switch to a move "proven" lighting set up and at least eliminate that variable as an issue. I guess if I had to do it all over again in January, I would have gone T5/MH or both. I sorta have buyer's remorse about violating my rule about not reinventing the wheel... Looking now online about the Razors, lots of people are happy with them but they are all over nano's, or at least smaller tanks, and none over heavy SPS reefs, at least none that I've seen. The crazy SPS gardens though...like I've been seeing on the TOTM's and such... all T5, MH, or combos.

 

I'll probably just continue to research and at the same time take care of the other stuff I need to do with the tank (the skimmer upgrade) and let the lights play out some more into the fall...then pull the trigger, if I do. In the meantime I might tweak up my light settings to 1) increase peak out put (once I re-acclimate the tank to light after this stupid outage) and 2) increase the white channel a lot more. Perhaps that will spur growth.

 

Unrelated -

 

A little while ago I was watching the tank. I happily observed one of my big new Emerald Crabs cleaning up trash under and around a colony of zoanthids. At one point he stuck his claw in a zoa cluster and pulled out a 1" bristle worm. He then proceeded to tear it into small pieces and eat them bit by bit, like we'd eat a french frie. He might be my new best friend Hopefully he doesn't eat the zoas next! Anyway, bless you John Maloney. You gave me crabs and I love you for it.

 

(if you don't know me well, you don't know that i hate bristle worms with the fire of 1000 suns)

[eitallent]

First, Emerald crabs are the bomb diggity in my tank! There is no pest algae that has survived their constant picking and grazing. They have never ever bothered corals. Every once in a while they play a game of bowling with the Nassarius, but that is all the mischief they get up to.

 

I share your concerns about the corals under this light. You raise valid points.

 

The system to watch is Gena's nano (Gentlemen Prefer Cubes). She has had great tanks and won TOTM. She just switched to the Razor 160W 16k. I think she was previously using halides, I am not certain. Any way that is the tank I am watching to get a final verdict on these lights.

[jedimasterben]

First, Emerald crabs are the bomb diggity in my tank! There is no pest algae that has survived their constant picking and grazing. They have never ever bothered corals. Every once in a while they play a game of bowling with the Nassarius, but that is all the mischief they get up to.

 

I share your concerns about the corals under this light. You raise valid points.

 

The system to watch is Gena's nano (Gentlemen Prefer Cubes). She has had great tanks and won TOTM. She just switched to the Razor 160W 16k. I think she was previously using halides, I am not certain. Any way that is the tank I am watching to get a final verdict on these lights.

No, she used a four bulb T5 light over the last tank, and before that I think she used Panoramas or something like that.

[eitallent]

No, she used a four bulb T5 light over the last tank, and before that I think she used Panoramas or something like that.

 

Oh yes, that's right. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Any hoo,Gena's tank is the one to watch IMO to see how the Razors do.

[jedimaster1138]

First, Emerald crabs are the bomb diggity in my tank! There is no pest algae that has survived their constant picking and grazing. They have never ever bothered corals. Every once in a while they play a game of bowling with the Nassarius, but that is all the mischief they get up to.

 

I share your concerns about the corals under this light. You raise valid points.

 

The system to watch is Gena's nano (Gentlemen Prefer Cubes). She has had great tanks and won TOTM. She just switched to the Razor 160W 16k. I think she was previously using halides, I am not certain. Any way that is the tank I am watching to get a final verdict on these lights.

 

Yeah the emerald crabs are hilarious and have already cleaned up some of my bubble algae...I think. If they continue to do that AND kill bristle worms...weee... I know they are opputunisitic feeders as well, but hopefully that will never become an issue with the way I feed (read: heavy)

 

No, she used a four bulb T5 light over the last tank, and before that I think she used Panoramas or something like that.

 

My Panorama's light my fuge and frag tank/section now. The ones that work. I have a P. Pro that's half burned out. A blue stunner strip is currently lighting half my tank till my F%$^&%@#&^$%& Razor repair parts come in the mail. Mutter.

 

Oh yes, that's right. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Any hoo,Gena's tank is the one to watch IMO to see how the Razors do.

 

I looked through her thread. Gorgeous tank. Not a lot of SPS though, so I'm not sure how much of an example it is for me though. I can't argue with the way it grows zoas and things, that's for sure. My nuclear green palys were GLOWING from across the room last night.

 

When/if I get my Razor(s) back growing, and when I get them back up to where I had them, power wise, or close to it, I'm going to take a series of controlled pictures of my SPS and archive them. I'll even whip out the tripod. Then I'm going to turn UP the white channel a bunch for the peak of the day and let things go for at least 30 days. Then we'll see how things are around September. If i'm still not happy...anyone want to buy a Razor?

 

Of course in the meantime I have to figure out what the right combo of 10000k or 14000k 250w SE MH is with 4x 80w T5's to maximize both growth and make me at least happy with color.

[jedimaster1138]

Razors back online. Pictures of the replacement process forthcoming. Took longer than it should have because of well...stupid cable routing and mushy plastic. Also, Eitallent, you weren't kidding - those screws are hella soft. I wish I had a plastic screwdriver. My Klein 10 in 1 nearly tore them apart.

[eitallent]

Razors back online. Pictures of the replacement process forthcoming. Took longer than it should have because of well...stupid cable routing and mushy plastic. Also, Eitallent, you weren't kidding - those screws are hella soft. I wish I had a plastic screwdriver. My Klein 10 in 1 nearly tore them apart.

 

Cheap screws are in almost everything! Why do they use such soft screws? I don't get it.

 

I am glad everything went well and it is all back on line. Can't wait to see pictures.

[ZephNYC]

Thank you for the Rocks Joe. I put them in the 210 to fill up some shallow areas and have a couple new Acros arriving tomorrow. The tank is starting to fill up. Next I want a Red Dragon A. Carduus. Then I will be cool like you and Kat.

[metrokat]

Thank you for the Rocks Joe. I put them in the 210 to fill up some shallow areas and have a couple new Acros arriving tomorrow. The tank is starting to fill up. Next I want a Red Dragon A. Carduus. Then I will be cool like you and Kat.

Actually, if I recall correctly, you called me a brat for having a Red Dragon.

[jedimaster1138]

Thank you for the Rocks Joe. I put them in the 210 to fill up some shallow areas and have a couple new Acros arriving tomorrow. The tank is starting to fill up. Next I want a Red Dragon A. Carduus. Then I will be cool like you and Kat.

 

Awesome! I expect pictures

 

Speaking of, I took nearly 200 pictures of my acros the other night. I'm going to take more in September and then compare growth. I'm going all scientist on their asses! I basically decided what fixture I'm getting, if my lights don't do what I want them to do. I'm even getting free shipping, which is kind of a big deal for 2 magnetic ballasts and a 5 foot long piece of steel. Oh and the bulbs. 2x 10000k 250w and T5..some combo of 460 nm and 420nm. Hamilton seems like a stand up operation. I told them about your 15 year old ballasts and the guy was not at all surprised.

 

If my Dragon grew faster I'd frag it for ya. It's a slow one...though I've heard once they get comfy they TAKE OFF and grow like weeds. Any on DD? The price has come down a lot recently. Speaking of, if you order from DD and don't mind holding something for me, I'm trying to get a hold of this: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+1492+2292+2804&pcatid=2804 It's the one I was talking about on your thread. It's not a DD item, but from Wisconsin. And looks way cooler in person. heh I miss my poorly departed one from my old set up. It actually grew under my old Ecoxotic lights too!

 

Actually, if I recall correctly, you called me a brat for having a Red Dragon.

 

Term of endearment?

 

I saw that colony you sent me Kat...I don't know that I have room for it now..I put Zephy's in that spot :-)

[ZephNYC]

Consider it ordered. Youve got a good eye and those are very nice. YOU CROSSED OVER!!!!! HEY JEDIMASTERBEN!!!!!????? YA HEARING THIS!!!!!???????

 

God I love it!!!

 

Halides baby.

 

Your lighting is perfct in my opinion and is exactly what I would do and pretty much what I do do, I just orderd 4X420nm t5's for my 210.

With that kind of lighting, not attempting a big maxima some time in the future would be a crimial act. You know you will. I know you will. But no time soon. I would give your tank another 6 months but I dont know what your water changing schedual is like, which i feel is pretty much the determining factor wheather you can keep clams or not. I will let you know when I have the frag.

 

 

Actually, if I recall correctly, you called me a brat for having a Red Dragon.

 

 

 

I know. brat.

 

Actually the only thing that pisses me off with you is you get them for like $40 and i pay $120.

[jedimaster1138]

I haven't crossed over yet... in September if I don't see any documented growth - hence the pictures. We shall see. I'm hoping to not have to. lol Saving a couple amps of power would be a good thing...

 

If you are running 10000k MH, you probably want a few 460 nm (ie blue) T5's to go with the 420s. the 420s will be purple ish, the 460s blue. In fact some people, including the guy i talk to at Hamilton, think 4x 460 works best with 10000k. It sorta depends on what you want to see. 420 is purple ish. I think i might go something like 3x 460 and 1x 420. or maybe half and half. we'll see. Also the brand of t5 bulb matters some. A few of the bulbs are "combo" ish when it comes to the spectrum. Of course I have very ltitle exp in this area, just telling you what Hammy has told me and what i've read in searching RC etc.

 

Of course if you are running 14000k, then it's a little different. Same goes for 20000k...then there's brand of bulb and ballast. What drives me nuts about MH is the same bulb will look different depending on if it's the 250w, 175w, or 400w model AND everything is different depending on the ballast you are using. It's confusing as all heck.

 

Hey Kat - what are your exact light arrangements? What spectrum bulbs and LEDs or VHo's or whatever it is your lights are. heh (i still can't keep up)

 

 

You're a good man CharlieBrown....er, ZephyClam Thank you kindly.

 

I couldn't find a picture of my ORA Purple Plasma, but here's a good one of a huge colony. Mine was 1/10th of this, but you get the idea. Lovely coral.

 

 

 

My water change schedule is uh... irregular. It's supposed to be every other week, 11g or so, which is 10%. It winds up being more like 3 weeks, depending on how busy I am. We'll see what happens with my NO3 levels when I get the new skimmer in. I have a feeling I might have to stick to the 14 day change while the skimmer breaks in...

[jedimaster1138]

Been meaning to upload this...picture of the partially blown out driver board from one of my Razors. Looks like one of the chokes is toasted and that big cap on the bottom right looks like it was on it's way out. That cap is actually soldered to the board sideways, then crammed into the heatsink/housing in such a way that it's rubbing up against the inside of the housing 100% of the time. I'm sure it gets nice and hot. Poor design IMO...I think they could have made the things 1/2" bigger to accommodate a little more internal airflow. Reminds me of an Apple product... form before function. SIGH

 

 

[Chew_Magna]

That's fairly common for capacitors to be soldered on like that. Usually if they're attached at a 90 like that one the pins are pre-bent to allow it. Doesn't look like it for that one. It's also fairly common for caps to blow in cheaper electronics.

 

I wouldn't turn that thing on period anymore. Too much of a risk imo. You'll end up burning your house down.

[jedimaster1138]

That's fairly common for capacitors to be soldered on like that. Usually if they're attached at a 90 like that one the pins are pre-bent to allow it. Doesn't look like it for that one. It's also fairly common for caps to blow in cheaper electronics.

 

I wouldn't turn that thing on period anymore. Too much of a risk imo. You'll end up burning your house down.

 

That board is gone. I got the new one last week. The one in the picture is sitting on my table...they don't even want it back...told me to toss it.

 

Oh yeah, I've seen that before, but then it's bent further, straining the pins, and crammed into the housing. I had to go through hell to get the new board into the housing without breaking it. They also leave no room UNDER the board...the pins on the bottom side of the PCB stick out a little, as usual. But there's so little tolerance to get the board into the slides, I had to get the flush cutters out and trim the leads a little. Annoying.

 

Mass produced stuff....what can we expect?

[ZephNYC]

I haven't crossed over yet... in September if I don't see any documented growth - hence the pictures. We shall see. I'm hoping to not have to. lol Saving a couple amps of power would be a good thing...

 

If you are running 10000k MH, you probably want a few 460 nm (ie blue) T5's to go with the 420s. the 420s will be purple ish, the 460s blue. In fact some people, including the guy i talk to at Hamilton, think 4x 460 works best with 10000k. It sorta depends on what you want to see. 420 is purple ish. I think i might go something like 3x 460 and 1x 420. or maybe half and half. we'll see. Also the brand of t5 bulb matters some. A few of the bulbs are "combo" ish when it comes to the spectrum. Of course I have very ltitle exp in this area, just telling you what Hammy has told me and what i've read in searching RC etc.

 

Of course if you are running 14000k, then it's a little different. Same goes for 20000k...then there's brand of bulb and ballast. What drives me nuts about MH is the same bulb will look different depending on if it's the 250w, 175w, or 400w model AND everything is different depending on the ballast you are using. It's confusing as all heck.

 

Hey Kat - what are your exact light arrangements? What spectrum bulbs and LEDs or VHo's or whatever it is your lights are. heh (i still can't keep up)

 

 

You're a good man CharlieBrown....er, ZephyClam Thank you kindly.

 

I couldn't find a picture of my ORA Purple Plasma, but here's a good one of a huge colony. Mine was 1/10th of this, but you get the idea. Lovely coral.

 

 

 

My water change schedule is uh... irregular. It's supposed to be every other week, 11g or so, which is 10%. It winds up being more like 3 weeks, depending on how busy I am. We'll see what happens with my NO3 levels when I get the new skimmer in. I have a feeling I might have to stick to the 14 day change while the skimmer breaks in...

 

Wow!! Looks like I will be ordering two of those.

 

Hey Joe, email me the link to the frag you want.

[jedimaster1138]

Wow!! Looks like I will be ordering two of those.

 

Hey Joe, email me the link to the frag you want.

 

Email sent. I appreciate it a lot man. No rush. PS - yeah they are lovely stags. They get nice and fuzzy too. I like fuzzy.

[metrokat]

I don't know if I can answer intelligently enough but I will try. I posted the answer on my thread for ya but here it is again

 

T5/LED custom hybrid.

96W T5s HO with parbolic reflectors or whatever (4 bulbs 24W each - 2 Blue+, 1 GE6500, 1 Purple plus)

Two clusters of

11 REBEL ES LED's ( 2 - Warm white, 2 Neutral white, 1 Cyan, 2 Blue, 4 Royal Blue)

4 SEMILED LED's ( 4 - Violets )

LEDs are capable of 800 PAR

 

Hey Kat - what are your exact light arrangements? What spectrum bulbs and LEDs or VHo's or whatever it is your lights are. heh (i still can't keep up)

[Chew_Magna]

Mass produced stuff....what can we expect?

I've worked in a few factories, so yeah, basically this.

[metrokat]

Actually the only thing that pisses me off with you is you get them for like $40 and i pay $120.

That's because you like to spend like a rockstar. How many colonies from photoshopden divers den have you bought that didn't look like the pictures online but you still keep doing it.

Oh! speaking of which, Robin Thicke admitted to having spent half a million $ on marijuana.

[jedimaster1138]

I don't know if I can answer intelligently enough but I will try. I posted the answer on my thread for ya but here it is again

 

T5/LED custom hybrid.

96W T5s HO with parbolic reflectors or whatever (4 bulbs 24W each - 2 Blue+, 1 GE6500, 1 Purple plus)

Two clusters of

11 REBEL ES LED's ( 2 - Warm white, 2 Neutral white, 1 Cyan, 2 Blue, 4 Royal Blue)

4 SEMILED LED's ( 4 - Violets )

LEDs are capable of 800 PAR

 

That is an extremely intelligent and clear and detailed answer. Thank you. The insane growth of your SPS is most likely thanks to that GE6500k. Go go high par yellow sunlight. That'll make things grow. Very nice set up Kat. Very nice.

 

 

That's because you like to spend like a rockstar. How many colonies from photoshopden divers den have you bought that didn't look like the pictures online but you still keep doing it.

Oh! speaking of which, Robin Thicke admitted to having spent half a million $ on marijuana.

 

That's a lot of chronic.

 

LOL @ PhotoShopDen. LOL Well done.

 

I like when Zeph orders from there...it means we can piggy back on his orders :-P

[ZephNYC]

That's because you like to spend like a rockstar. How many colonies from photoshopden divers den have you bought that didn't look like the pictures online but you still keep doing it.

Oh! speaking of which, Robin Thicke admitted to having spent half a million $ on marijuana.

Half a million ??? He will still never be as cool as Snoop Dog. ( I refuse to call him Snoop Lion). Divers Den has some of the best colonies around. I dont know anyplace else EVER where you can get a 7 inch Blue Tenuis colony.

[metrokat]

That is an extremely intelligent and clear and detailed answer. Thank you. The insane growth of your SPS is most likely thanks to that GE6500k. Go go high par yellow sunlight. That'll make things grow. Very nice set up Kat. Very nice.

No no no. That is my set up NOW. I grew everything under stock lights, marketed as T5s but are really PCs with a fancy 4 pin socket. Yes you heard me I grew the nasuta under PCs. Bite me.

 

This one. (which ironically in this picture DOES look like shades of fall.

 

Harrys Frags has purple plasma. I want a couple of things from him, maybe we can place an order together? Ping me.

[jedimasterben]

That is an extremely intelligent and clear and detailed answer. Thank you. The insane growth of your SPS is most likely thanks to that GE6500k. Go go high par yellow sunlight. That'll make things grow. Very nice set up Kat. Very nice.

High PAR grows SPS - not 'yellow' light. Corals can absorb almost zero light from 490-630nm, leaving only blue and red, and even then, most corals only culture zooxanthellae that are efficient at absorbing blue light only, no red.