skimlessinseattle Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Yes. BRS bituminous special grade. Whatever their calculator says for 70 gallons.I took a look back through your thread and have a couple recommendations. First, I think your current calcium and alkalinity are too high. I see you are using coral pro salt - any particular reason why? I keep my tanks at 8dKH, with calcium around 400, so that could have an impact. Also the current alkalinty reading you posted is almost 1.3dKH different from your march 2014 posted level. From this it is clear you are having too much variation in your alkalinity. Both SPS and LPS require stable alkalinity to do best. It looks like your alkalinity fluctuates more than your calcium, so its possible your GFO may be consuming it contributing to the unbalanced usage and alkalinity swings - research that. I know I have to supplement greater volume of alkalinity in my frag tank because of this. Im biased toward carbon usage after an unfavorable experience with it and dont prefer it because I feel it polishes the water too much, contributing to necrosis in SPS, especially at higher alkalinity levels, so that is something to at least consider as well. How are you currently maintaining calcium and alkalinity? Link to comment
bencollinz Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 I took a look back through your thread and have a couple recommendations. First, I think your current calcium and alkalinity are too high. I see you are using coral pro salt - any particular reason why? I keep my tanks at 8dKH, with calcium around 400, so that could have an impact. Also the current alkalinty reading you posted is almost 1.3dKH different from your march 2014 posted level. From this it is clear you are having too much variation in your alkalinity. Both SPS and LPS require stable alkalinity to do best. It looks like your alkalinity fluctuates more than your calcium, so its possible your GFO may be consuming it contributing to the unbalanced usage and alkalinity swings - research that. I know I have to supplement greater volume of alkalinity in my frag tank because of this. Im biased toward carbon usage after an unfavorable experience with it and dont prefer it because I feel it polishes the water too much, contributing to necrosis in SPS, especially at higher alkalinity levels, so that is something to at least consider as well. How are you currently maintaining calcium and alkalinity?I just took my gfo and carbon offline to see if some things improve. I'm only doing water changes. My ph has never been what it's "supposed to be" but it's always been stable. About a month ago I tried some alkalin 8.3 to try to remedy that and didn't do anything but piss things off. I'm using that salt because "that's what you're supposed to use". Current parameters PO4 = 0 Alk = 171 Ammonia = 0 Calcium = 300? Mg = 3200? The last 2 I obviously messed up the test. Sorry so late. And Cyano at the moment. Link to comment
metrokat Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Repeat the alk/cal/mag test again. which test kit reads mag till 3200? Link to comment
bencollinz Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 Calcium = 400 Magnesium = 1600 Alk = 12.6 Red sea pro reef foundation test kit Link to comment
metrokat Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I have that kit, it doesn't go up to 3200. Anyway the levels seem more normal. The alk is rather high though. It would be fine if your tank was also running warmer than usual. And you can feed more as a result. Link to comment
bencollinz Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 I have that kit, it doesn't go up to 3200. Anyway the levels seem more normal. The alk is rather high though. It would be fine if your tank was also running warmer than usual. And you can feed more as a result. So I redid the alk with Hanna checker and it says 10.024. The first method was manual with red sea. Should I be trying to do something about the always low ph? Link to comment
metrokat Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Well. pH is something everybody says not to chase. However constant low pH does result in algae problems. So if you are facing that, then yes do something about it such as have the skimmer intake line extended to a window to get fresh air. Link to comment
skimlessinseattle Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 So I redid the alk with Hanna checker and it says 10.024. The first method was manual with red sea. Should I be trying to do something about the always low ph? Hey Ben, as far as pH goes, before trying to change anything you need to make sure your probe is properly calibrated. The difference in alkalinity values you are seeing between the two test methods suggests technique is likely the problem as those results are too different to be analytical variation. If you're interested, next time I'm up in that area I could give you some help with titrating (I'm a chemist). Do you have a refugium on your tank? I switched to macro filtration on my frag system in place of gfo and it has made a positive impact both on coral appearance and alkalinity related issues. Link to comment
bencollinz Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share Posted June 30, 2014 Hey Ben, as far as pH goes, before trying to change anything you need to make sure your probe is properly calibrated. The difference in alkalinity values you are seeing between the two test methods suggests technique is likely the problem as those results are too different to be analytical variation. If you're interested, next time I'm up in that area I could give you some help with titrating (I'm a chemist). Do you have a refugium on your tank? I switched to macro filtration on my frag system in place of gfo and it has made a positive impact both on coral appearance and alkalinity related issues. I've tested with a standalone PH meter, pre and post calibrated as well as pre and post calibrating the probe on my RA. Same numbers for both meters pre and post calibration. Calibrated with the single use lab ph, blah blah blahs. I do have a fuge, reverse light exposure. cheato, caluerpas, red finger algae, live rock, live rock rubble and sand bed. my skimmer intake is outside of the cabinet but not outdoors. I was reading some website and it suggests using B-ionic or something like that to dose to bring the PH up. Advice on that would be nice. As well as, someone stated it could have been a bad batch of salt...? I don't know. I'm going to take a gallon of RO water right out of the RO and mix with salt to see what PH I get. I'm going to buy a gallon of distilled water and do the same. As well as test a gallon of RO that's been sitting in the brute to see what PH I get. All that to see if the PH is changing pre or post display. Do you feel I'm going in the right direction? Link to comment
skimlessinseattle Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Is there any evidence that your current pH is causing problems? Kalkwasser in the ATO will help bring your pH up, and its the cheapest 2 part. I am currently using it on all my tanks for calcium and alkalinity needs, and it keeps the pH up at the same time. I personally wouldn't start messing around with additives to try chasing a number. Save your money and sanity. Kalkwasser is king in my opinion. Link to comment
MikeTR Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Take a cup of tank water and aerate it outside and see if it goes up. Probably build up of CO2 in the house. If that's the case, kalkwasser can bind up some of that CO2 as well as it already has a high pH. Use it to maintain your alk/calc levels and see what its effects are on pH over a few weeks. My only other suggestions are take it easy on the carbon/gfo. I only use a cup of carbon and 2/3c GFO on my 180. Carbon changed once a month. GFO every 2 weeks. Alk needs to be 10 or less.. I ride at 8.4. Calc needs to stay above 400. Link to comment
bencollinz Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 Is there any evidence that your current pH is causing problems? Kalkwasser in the ATO will help bring your pH up, and its the cheapest 2 part. I am currently using it on all my tanks for calcium and alkalinity needs, and it keeps the pH up at the same time. I personally wouldn't start messing around with additives to try chasing a number. Save your money and sanity. Kalkwasser is king in my opinion. cyano, melting Zoas, acans melting, duncan still not opening, scoly melted away. I'd imagine those are signs, not sure? The only thing off in my water is the PH. But it's always been that low. and nothing perks up or gets better after water changes. Take a cup of tank water and aerate it outside and see if it goes up. Probably build up of CO2 in the house. If that's the case, kalkwasser can bind up some of that CO2 as well as it already has a high pH. Use it to maintain your alk/calc levels and see what its effects are on pH over a few weeks. I will try this. Just let it sit outside?My only other suggestions are take it easy on the carbon/gfo. I only use a cup of carbon and 2/3c GFO on my 180. Carbon changed once a month. GFO every 2 weeks. Alk needs to be 10 or less.. I ride at 8.4. Calc needs to stay above 400.took GFO and carbon out of the system 2 weeks ago. well after everything started going downhill. Link to comment
MikeTR Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 You gotta use an air pump and aerate it for like 30 minutes. Link to comment
skimlessinseattle Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Try the kalk Ben. Start with half a teaspoon per gallon dosed through top off forca week and adjust from there. Link to comment
bencollinz Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 PH testing of water before/after salt Distilled Sitting RO Fresh RO Tap water 8.5 8.0 8.0 7.7 salt 8.2 8.15 7.90 7.90 Salinity = 36 - 38 ppt Haven't done the fresh air yet. TBC... Link to comment
bencollinz Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 You gotta use an air pump and aerate it for like 30 minutes. Went from 7.85 to 8.05 outside with air pump for 30 minutes. Link to comment
bencollinz Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 I got a cleaner shrimp and some Kalk yesterday from LFS. I don't think I will put it in the ATO, my system is a bit complicated. I'll try the drip method first I guess. thoughts? Link to comment
MikeTR Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I've always had reservations about putting kalk in my ATO.. and for good reason. Yesterday I found my sump overfilled. The sponge clogged just enough to slow the water flow into the return section so eventually all 5 gallons in my top off container was emptied. The sump is way overfilled now and not much to do but let it evaporate over the next couple days. This was a new sponge too.. and not really that dirty. I guess there needs to be some additional fail safes added where the ATO would not turn on if pH was over a certain value.. but then the pump runs dry.. I dunno, I don't get it I guess. Every time I take a couple scoops of water out to bag up a coral for sale, that water gets replaced with the top off, but it would never get filled if the pH was too high.. Link to comment
bencollinz Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 I've always had reservations about putting kalk in my ATO.. and for good reason. Yesterday I found my sump overfilled. The sponge clogged just enough to slow the water flow into the return section so eventually all 5 gallons in my top off container was emptied. The sump is way overfilled now and not much to do but let it evaporate over the next couple days. This was a new sponge too.. and not really that dirty. I guess there needs to be some additional fail safes added where the ATO would not turn on if pH was over a certain value.. but then the pump runs dry.. I dunno, I don't get it I guess. Every time I take a couple scoops of water out to bag up a coral for sale, that water gets replaced with the top off, but it would never get filled if the pH was too high.. I don't even have that failsafe for PH set up on my RA yet. I'm glad you brought it up! Link to comment
bencollinz Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 So half teaspoon in a gallon of ro dripped slowly over 10 hours raised the pH to 7.96 but by morning it's back down to 7.6. What does that mean? Link to comment
bencollinz Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 Put a whole teaspoon in gallon of ro, dripped slowly over 10 hours pH went up to 8.19. went back to 7.85 by the next morning. Which is where it currently sits. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 What does that mean? Pretty much that the sodium hydroxide is binding to CO2 and by the time the initial pH thing wears off your household CO2 content has already brought the tank CO2 level back up. Link to comment
bencollinz Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 sorry, more questions about it. I need an actual doser with a resevoir of kalk water to pull from (because the gallon can't keep up, right?)? and is there any math from the above two statements to give me a baseline where to start with the doser? Is there any evidence that your current pH is causing problems? Kalkwasser in the ATO will help bring your pH up, and its the cheapest 2 part. I am currently using it on all my tanks for calcium and alkalinity needs, and it keeps the pH up at the same time. I personally wouldn't start messing around with additives to try chasing a number. Save your money and sanity. Kalkwasser is king in my opinion. do you put yours in the ATO? Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 and is there any math from the above two statements to give me a baseline where to start with the doser? Kalk addition needs to be based on how much cal/alk your tank consumes, or it will build up however high your magnesium will let it. http://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/KalkContribution.php Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.