Seiryoku's 60g (Poor Quality) Lee Mar Starphire Cube

[Psychosis]

What, you guys pull a 180 after a well thought out email? Interesting.,

[patrickf]

Man, I am getting paranoid. I need to go home and break out the tape measure to see how my rimless cube measures.

[Seiryoku]

That sounds like a good Response to me:)

 

Sounds to me like more smoke and on top of that he never confirmed whether or not my replacements were their best work.

 

Yeah I mean I have noticed slight flaws in my rimless tanks but they are extremely minor and only due to the fact that whenever you cut something(glass especially) there is a slight natural error sometimes. These obviously where not my fault when I build tanks because I don't cut my own glass. I agree with the response I mean it is what it is and if something happens they are under warranty so I would just move on and enjoy the hobby.

 

When you score and break glass, it doesn't magically break out of square unless the score line isn't straight and if by some chance it does you grab a new piece.

 

What, you guys pull a 180 after a well thought out email? Interesting.,

 

Would seem so...

 

Man, I am getting paranoid. I need to go home and break out the tape measure to see how my rimless cube measures.

 

Don't forget to get a square to go along with the tape measure.

[Seiryoku]

My guess is that if you took a high power zoom lens and square to your coffee table, end table, garage door, or any other professionally produced item in your house, you would find very minor aesthetic issues as well.

 

I'd like to comment on this part his response.

 

1) I took all of the photos on the tanks/stands with my cell phone, not a "zoom" lens.

2) A very large majority of coffee tables, end tables, garage doors are mass produced pieces and not CUSTOM ordered HAND BUILT products. It isn't difficult to custom build those items and have them come out perfectly square and to proper dimensions with no flaws in the raw materials. If flaws are discovered in the raw materials they are simply not used!

 

Mark Boyd is a very smooth talker (I've had multiple phone conversations with him and it is somewhat evident in his emails) and I'm sure he is able to convince most people of what he saying, but there are some that can see through it.

[Reefmaster1996]

By no means do I support what lee mar built and sent you (even the replacements), I was just stating a fact to take into consideration. Also that's usually the case when a tank comes out a bit smaller than ordered but it should never come out not square. Don't get me wrong and the bottom is just unexceptable. Plus the main problem resulting in this disalignment is that they don't cut thier own glass as stated in the email resulting in sub par dimensions and cuts. I don't cut my glass either but I double check that it's up to par with the dimensions I ordered so that the tank comes out as perfect as possible and so far glass cages hasn't let me down. In my personal opinion they sent you glass slapped together with silicone and called it a custom tank. And for what you paid, its just unacceptable. And like I said before nothing compares to being your own Quality control, you'll never disappoint yourself because you'll be able to build something exactly how you want it every time. Plus why would they care about all the minor flaws, to them time is money and in the end it's not their tank. In reality that extra time spent would actually produce more money than they would have saved by shipping out something not worth buying, think of all the people who read this thread and aren't going to be buying a lee mar tank anymore. Also think about how many would if they sent you a top notch tank.

[prjct92eh2]

Sounds like Mark should be a politician. Talks without ever answering your question directly. I agree with you 100% about industrial made vs. hand made. You have paid a premium to get a perfect tank. If this was a Solana, i would agree with Mark, but it isn't.

 

If it was me I would demand at least a partial refund and get in writing that if the tank fails they not only cover the tank, but other damages (your floor, livestock, equipment, etc). If you can get those, set it up as delivered and hope for the best.

[Reefmaster1996]

Personally I would have asked for a full refund and sent the tanks back.

[metrokat]

Brandon, if it were me,every time I looked at my tank I would notice that the one side was 1/5 or 1/3 or whatever shorter on one side. It WOULD affect my enjoyment of my reef. Maybe in time I would not notice it but for a long time I would. That is the nature of humans, and those in particular that want perfection.

 

If you wanted a rimless cube you had other options, but you went with this company for a reason. You saved up for it, you spent a lot on it and you are completely entitled to a detailed inspection of it.

 

If this were my tank I would return it and get my money back.

[Seiryoku]

One problem I have with going the full refund route is my LFS. They are already taking it in the rear because of Lee Mar and from the responses I've received from Mark Boyd, they are under the impression the replacements are top notch. If my LFS were to give me a full refund I doubt Lee Mar would in turn give them one.

 

My first phone conversation with Mark Boyd gave me the very strong impression (he all but said it) that Lee Mar was blaming most (the chip and various scratches on both tanks), but not all, of the problems I had with my first two tanks on my LFS not transporting them properly (which is total crap).

 

In turn my LFS, in order to keep me happy and get replacements, had to drive everything down south about 400 miles (serious gas money for a truck large enough to hold two tanks and two stands) to Lee Mar on less than a 24 hour notice. LFS owner had to get on the road right after closing for the day and drive all night to drop them off the next morning and then turn around and drive straight back. On top of that Lee Mar made them pay to freight the replacements up to me and I know that cost a pretty penny.

 

My LFS has gone above and beyond anything I could have imagined under the circumstances we are dealing with. Honestly surprised they are still willing to talk and deal with me! Everything in this particular post is from me and me alone from my talks with Mark Boyd at Lee Mar.

[kevantheman35]

This guy is every vendors worst nightmare lol. Why not build your own tank and see how that comes out

[Lawnman]

One problem I have with going the full refund route is my LFS. They are already taking it in the rear because of Lee Mar and from the responses I've received from Mark Boyd, they are under the impression the replacements are top notch. If my LFS were to give me a full refund I doubt Lee Mar would in turn give them one.

 

My first phone conversation with Mark Boyd gave me the very strong impression (he all but said it) that Lee Mar was blaming most (the chip and various scratches on both tanks), but not all, of the problems I had with my first two tanks on my LFS not transporting them properly (which is total crap).

 

In turn my LFS, in order to keep me happy and get replacements, had to drive everything down south about 400 miles (serious gas money for a truck large enough to hold two tanks and two stands) to Lee Mar on less than a 24 hour notice. LFS owner had to get on the road right after closing for the day and drive all night to drop them off the next morning and then turn around and drive straight back. On top of that Lee Mar made them pay to freight the replacements up to me and I know that cost a pretty penny.

 

My LFS has gone above and beyond anything I could have imagined under the circumstances we are dealing with. Honestly surprised they are still willing to talk and deal with me! Everything in this particular post is from me and me alone from my talks with Mark Boyd at Lee Mar.

Lee Mar is not going to do anything more for you. You should contact your LFS and tell them you want a refund. You have been dealing with this for to long. I can tell you that is the best Lee Mar can and will do for you. Not to sound rude but either call your LFS and get a refund or fill them up with water. Not really sure why you are so worried about your LFS having to give you a refund? They will give you a refund and take it as a loss on there taxes.

[Seiryoku]

This guy is every vendors worst nightmare lol. Why not build your own tank and see how that comes out

 

If I wanted a tank that looked like crap I would have and not paid a company with the reputation of Lee Mar to build it.

 

Lee Mar is not going to do anything more for you. You should contact your LFS and tell them you want a refund. You have been dealing with this for to long. I can tell you that is the best Lee Mar can and will do for you. Not to sound rude but either call your LFS and get a refund or fill them up with water. Not really sure why you are so worried about your LFS having to give you a refund? They will give you a refund and take it as a loss on there taxes.

 

I like my LFS and don't want them to take more of a loss...

[1reefluvr2]

So we pay for the loss in taxes???? I would try to take some classes and build my own tank. You would be amazed on how awsome some local glass comApanies make fishtanks for a 1/3 of the price. My second tank I bought the glass and had the glass shop glue it for me it came out great well worth the 300$ dollars in material and labor. When I sold it I got 700$ for the tank alone so give a local shop a try you never know:)

[Lawnman]

So we pay for the loss in taxes???? I would try to take some classes and build my own tank. You would be amazed on how awsome some local glass comApanies make fishtanks for a 1/3 of the price. My second tank I bought the glass and had the glass shop glue it for me it came out great well worth the 300$ dollars in material and labor. When I sold it I got 700$ for the tank alone so give a local shop a try you never know:)

Nothing new businesses have been doing it for years.

[Reeftech]

You now have 3 options legal action,refund from lfs and let them take legal action on lemur or accept them and start enjoying.Imo for you setting them up will not bring you enjoyment.

 

So whats it going to be.

 

 

[Reefmaster1996]

I built my own tank, sump,and stand for about 400$

 

Check out my build.

[metrokat]

I built my own tank, sump,and stand for about 400$

 

Check out my build.

I don't think it is about building your own and I am sure yours is a great tank. My RSM is pretty cool too but the cabinet hinges are rusting since it wasn't designed to have a sump, according to RSM. We each need to be happy with what we have. Me with my rusted hinged cabinet, you w a tank you built with your bare hands, and OP with a tank he's dreamed of and paid to have made custom. That is all.

[Seiryoku]

Really do wish Mark Boyd would simply answer my questions at this point, don't understand the difficulty in doing so. He keeps blowing me off as if I'm lucky he is even bothering to reply at all.

 

The top of the stand is what worries me most. As stated before, the top of the stand does not pass the test their very own warranty card says to apply to the top of a stand before putting one of their tanks on it. He didn't address that in any way what so ever

 

Really wanted to avoid court, but he isn't taking the various opportunities I've given him to discuss this with me. I'd be absolutely shocked and amazed if I were to lose anything in court given the documentation of the original order being bad (and him admitting to it) on top of issues with the replacements being ignored.

[Reefmaster1996]

I agree its his tank he can do whatever he pleases I was just sharing my expierence and by the way thanks for sharing yours.

[supernip]

are you going to feel your tank with your tears sudoku?

[Seiryoku]

 

 

This made me lol, thank you for that

[Seiryoku]

I wouldn't worry about the top of the stand at all. That glass on the bottom will span between those imperfections easy. Additionally, there is some sort of plexiglass or plastic adhered to the bottom. That's going to compress over time and fill in the minor voids. That's probably why it is there.

 

I don't know...the top is pretty funky.

 

My plan is to get some glass as close to 24x24 as possible, but with natural flaws and all it may end up at 24x23 15/16, and put it on the stand to see/show how much wobble there is and to see if I can break the glass by pressing on the edges.

[Seiryoku]

It may be a waste of time, but it will allow me to sleep at night and not dream about the contents of my tank all over the ground and my huskies eating a lion fish and dieing.

 

Why couldn't Mark Boyd say what you did instead of glazing over my question and trying to blow smoke up my ass about his companies reputation?

[Reeftech]

All of his emails are automated responses.LOL.

[heifinator]

I'd like to comment on this part his response.

 

1) I took all of the photos on the tanks/stands with my cell phone, not a "zoom" lens.

2) A very large majority of coffee tables, end tables, garage doors are mass produced pieces and not CUSTOM ordered HAND BUILT products. It isn't difficult to custom build those items and have them come out perfectly square and to proper dimensions with no flaws in the raw materials. If flaws are discovered in the raw materials they are simply not used!

 

Mark Boyd is a very smooth talker (I've had multiple phone conversations with him and it is somewhat evident in his emails) and I'm sure he is able to convince most people of what he saying, but there are some that can see through it.

 

I am an advocate for buying high quality products and receiving a high quality product. I also am not a fan of Lee Mar.

 

That being said this 2nd round of tanks is well within what I would consider acceptable. IMHO.

 

To your 2nd point, you have that backwards imho, its more likely to be perfect being machine made than hand made, not the other way around. humans are imperfect and any product made by one will be imperfect. Your paying extra to reduce the amount of imperfections.

 

Expecting a handmade product to ever be perfect is asking something that isn't possible. Now this isn't something you can come on a forum and ask. You need to decide what you find acceptable and ask for it, if they can't deliver then move on.

 

When I got my miracles tank i asked for exactly what I wanted and noted to them that if it was more than a 1/16th off anywhere, had any messy silicone or was uneven more than 1/16th It was going back, no chips, ect, ect.

 

When I received it the tank was off almost an 1/8th on the back side, I complained, noted my email and they offered to rebuild it or refund part of it.