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THE OFFICIAL ASK ALBERT THIEL THREAD

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Spirofucci

Thanks for the FD pics! I have a rock that just covered with them. Here's a crappy pic:

 

IMG_0506.jpg

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atoll

Hi Albert long time no speak.

You may recall me as we first met and chatted at a weekend seminar in the London Zoo aquarium with Martin Moe, Forest Young and a few more I think around 1990. We also met sometime later again at a WYMAG seminar in Yorkshire UK did correspond for a time after.

 

In case you are struggling to remember me its Les Melling of Standish Wigan Lanc's in the UK. :unsure:

 

Still struggling then look at the front cover of your book Ten Easy Steps.and also the inside cover. ;) Must be 22 years or so now since we first met. :eek:

 

Good to see you are still alive and kicking :lol:

 

BTW I never did get that slide back <_<

 

Heteractis magnifica my fav nem. Had it for many years until I stripped that tank down. :( We were always told stay well away from HM as they couild nt be kept for any length of time. I had mine for many ears with a trio of common clowns as per the pic on the front cover of your book. BTW I had to go out and buy it myself :o I never did get the promised copy. :huh:

 

OK you can relax now :lol:

 

So much has changed in the hobby and I guess you could argue as many would lighting has moved a long way with LED's and perhaps plasma lighting on the horizon. Some would point to foods others mud systems and so on and so on.

 

Now a question. What in your opinion has been the biggest advance made in marine reef keeping in the last 20 years or so?

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Finding Paulo
Yes put the intake of the skimmer in the area where the outflow of the reactor is would be my recommendation but remember I am not 100% familiar with that type and because you say yours looks different than the pic I posted it may be wise to verify with the manufacturer. I tried to call them a few minutes ago but got their answering machine.

 

However if I understand what is on their site then what I wrote above is what I would do (others may pipe it differently - maybe they can chime in -

 

Piping it the way I suggested is not going to do any harm however

 

Now to the other point you brought up : yes the idea of those reactors is that they lower the nitrates and phosphates and other pollutants and so it does lower nutrient levels (and so does the skimmer) and can lead to greater difficulty in for instance growing macro algae that require nitrate and phosphate but if you first grow the algae and then use the reactor and skimmer once they are established you can monitor what goes on and regulate the operation of the reactor and maybe take it out of service for some days so you algae do not starve for nutrients.

 

A lot depends on what you have in the tank of course

 

If the nutrient level is high and since the reactor and the skimmer will not remove everything from the tank water there should be enough nutrients for them anyway especially since they are IN the tank and can uptake needed nutrient before the reactor and skimmer can take them out

 

Hopefully I have not confused you

 

If you need more details you just ask more questions and I'll be glad to help as best as I can

 

Also read the instructions on the bio media (resin) you are using to see what exactly it is supposed to remove so you know.

 

Not sure whether this is a clear enough explanation so if it is not just shoot another message to me and I'll respond to that one

 

Albert

 

Mr. Thiel you are too kind! thanks for all the help and going out of your way to explain things. this is by far the most helpful thread. i solved many problems/confusions reading it.

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CAmor07

HEllo,

When dosing coralamino do i need to take out my chemi pure or can i just turn off the filtration that goes through it for 10-15 minutes?

Also i posted about on the second page my zoa and how it was like extending really far out, i placed it higher and higher and it still is the same?

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albertthiel
Thanks for the FD pics! I have a rock that just covered with them. Here's a crappy pic:

 

IMG_0506.jpg

 

Wow you sure have a lot of them on that one rock ... but if you want to get rid of them there should IMHO be enough people who would gladly accept them from you :)

 

Mind you if they are not bothering anything and they usually don't I would just keep them ...

 

Albert

 

 

Mr. Thiel you are too kind! thanks for all the help and going out of your way to explain things. this is by far the most helpful thread. i solved many problems/confusions reading it.

 

You are most welcome ....

 

Albert

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albertthiel
Hi Albert long time no speak.

You may recall me as we first met and chatted at a weekend seminar in the London Zoo aquarium with Martin Moe, Forest Young and a few more I think around 1990. We also met sometime later again at a WYMAG seminar in Yorkshire UK did correspond for a time after.

 

In case you are struggling to remember me its Les Melling of Standish Wigan Lanc's in the UK. :unsure:

 

Still struggling then look at the front cover of your book Ten Easy Steps.and also the inside cover. ;) Must be 22 years or so now since we first met. :eek:

 

Good to see you are still alive and kicking :lol:

 

BTW I never did get that slide back <_<

 

Heteractis magnifica my fav nem. Had it for many years until I stripped that tank down. :( We were always told stay well away from HM as they couild nt be kept for any length of time. I had mine for many ears with a trio of common clowns as per the pic on the front cover of your book. BTW I had to go out and buy it myself :o I never did get the promised copy. :huh:

 

OK you can relax now :lol:

 

So much has changed in the hobby and I guess you could argue as many would lighting has moved a long way with LED's and perhaps plasma lighting on the horizon. Some would point to foods others mud systems and so on and so on.

 

Now a question. What in your opinion has been the biggest advance made in marine reef keeping in the last 20 years or so?

 

Les,

 

Well yes that is a surprise indeed to get a message here on the NR forum from you after all those years. I do remember that week-end seminar very well at the London Zoo and so does my wife who was with me at the time.

 

It has indeed been a LONG time ... but I am getting active again in the hobby and trying to help hobbyists if I can here on this forum ... Nano and Pico tanks have a real appeal to me and when I was approached by one of the members who found me on Facebook, I joined the forum, then another member suggested we create this Ask Albert thread and we did so a few days ago and it has taken off real well.

 

I am going to take a look at the book for sure but I am afraid that I may not be able to locate that slide :( as it has been so long that I have no idea where it could be ... if you really need it I will make every effort I can to find it though, but I don't guarantee that I will find it.

 

Well it sure is good to hear from you .... just spoke to my wife on the phone and she remembers the conference as well and says Hi although she is not entirely sure she remembers you personally as we met so many people at that conference. In fact if I remember correctly there were a few hundred people in attendance for each of the lectures.

 

Yes Lighting has sure changed a lot over the last few years ... and I am personally brushing up on the LED knowledge I need and brushing up is probably a euphemism.

 

As to what the biggest change in the hobby has been in the last 20 years, I think it is hard to pick one particular one as there are many advances that have been made in the understanding of the animals and lifeforms' requirements but you do bring up a good point and I am going to give it some more thought.

 

Again good to hear from you and do stay in touch ....

 

I think that the cover you are referring to was of a later printing as the only one I have is not what you are referring to

 

10steps.png

 

Albert

Edited by albertthiel

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albertthiel

 

Thanks I am going to check with the two that are within about 10 miles of where I live but in opposite directions of my location :)

 

Hope they have going

 

Albert

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albertthiel

Reference is to the post made about the book below by Les Melling from the U.K.

 

10Steps.png

 

 

Does anyone have a copy of this book but with a different cover showing a large anemone and clownfish.

 

The pic above is from the original printing and the cover was changed as you may have read in the email that dealt with this book ...

 

If you do please do let me know ... I only have a copy left of the original and checked Amazon and they show the same one and not one of the subsequent printings.

 

Thanks

 

Albert

Edited by albertthiel

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wombat
Somewhere :) I read that Zeph likes Moorish Idols ... I do too in FOWLR tanks and have always found in the days I kept them many years ago that they were difficult due to their very specific feeding habits.

 

They are also the only species in that Genus Zanclidae ... odd ... of course there is the False one too the I am sure many of your have seen as well ...

 

moorish1.png

 

moorish2.png

 

moorish3.png

 

Zeph ... your take on Moorish Idols Zanclus cornutus

 

Albert

 

I've never found Moorish Idols particularly difficult to get eating, especially if they are housed in a tank with mature live rock where they can graze on algae and invertebrates before they start really chowing down on aquarium foods. The suspicion that so many are dying after 12-18 months from lack of sponge in their diet is IMhO just a repeated anecdote. There are plenty of exclusive sponge eaters (like Queen Angelfish, for example, which eat something like 97% sponge in the wild) that thrive for years on a varied diet of aquarium foods plus grazing from live rock.

 

My gut, based on several years experience with them, is that these fish are usually done in by low levels of chronic stress. What does that mean exactly? Housing them with tangs, angelfish, and the like, which I feel is a mistake. Even if you aren't seeing outright aggression, there is a stressor involved any time you place these fish together. Over time, feeding and grazing opportunities are compromised, nutrition starts to drop off, organs start to shut down, and you lose the fish. Then people say "oh, it got skinny and died because it wasn't getting the right diet".

 

We have a 7 year old MI with a foot long streamer that was thriving in a 250g tank; he is fed nothing but krill, mysis, prawn, clam, and herbivore gel. No sponges. There were also no tangs or angelfish in the tank. We recently moved him to a 200,000g reef tank. Sounds great right? All kinds of grazing opportunities, tons of live rock, etc. Problem is he sulked at the bottom of the tank, would not assert himself at feeding time among all the large tangs and angelfish, and over the course of several months started wasting away. So we moved him back to a holding tank for a few months, by himself, fed him like crazy, and sure enough he is fat and sassy again. These fish are really not that difficult, they just need to be kept in the right conditions. YMMV.

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Wizzy

Do you think that a 20 Gallon aquarium (without a sump) would be sufficient for Quarantining corals and fish?

 

I was thinking that I could use (2) 20 gallon aquariums- 1 for fish and 1 for corals.

 

There would be PVC in the Fish Quarantine and a PowerFilter or in-tank filter for flow/filtration.

 

The same filter would be used for the Coral Quarantine, but there would be Eggcrate and LED lighting.

 

Additional powerheads for flow would be added if needed.

 

I would quarantine everything for 1 month.

 

Please Advise- Wizzy :happy:

Edited by Wizzy

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atoll

Hi again Albert,

I have attached 2 pic's taken of your book Ten Easy Steps with the front cover showing my magnificent Heteractis magnifica and my female common clown. The inner cover of the book shows the Photo credit cover to me.

The book is a bit tatty around the ears now due to wear and tare. Page 4 says the books first printing November 1991. Perhaps it was a different cover on the UK book that is the reason why there is a different cover than on yours? Anyway here are the 2 photos which should help clear up the mystery.

Thielbook001.jpg

Thielbook002.jpg

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albertthiel
Hi again Albert,

I have attached 2 pic's taken of your book Ten Easy Steps with the front cover showing my magnificent Heteractis magnifica and my female common clown. The inner cover of the book shows the Photo credit cover to me.

The book is a bit tatty around the ears now due to wear and tare. Page 4 says the books first printing November 1991. Perhaps it was a different cover on the UK book that is the reason why there is a different cover than on yours? Anyway here are the 2 photos which should help clear up the mystery.

Thielbook001.jpg

Thielbook002.jpg

 

Yes that is the one Les .. thanks for posting it .. now I just have to find one as I do not think that the covers in the US and in the UK were different ....

 

I appreciate it.

 

Albert

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atoll
Yes that is the one Les .. thanks for posting it .. now I just have to find one as I do not think that the covers in the US and in the UK were different ....

 

I appreciate it.

 

Albert

 

 

YVW Albert. BTW I have seen the same covered book on eBay UK in the past and note there are 2 of your books on there now by you but unfortunately not this one. Worth keeping an eye on though if you can't find one by other means. I also have both the books currently for sale on eBay UK. :)

 

Les.

Edited by atoll

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albertthiel
Do you think that a 20 Gallon aquarium (without a sump) would be sufficient for Quarantining corals and fish?

 

I was thinking that I could use (2) 20 gallon aquariums- 1 for fish and 1 for corals.

 

There would be PVC in the Fish Quarantine and a PowerFilter or in-tank filter for flow/filtration.

 

The same filter would be used for the Coral Quarantine, but there would be Eggcrate and LED lighting.

 

Additional powerheads for flow would be added if needed.

 

I would quarantine everything for 1 month.

 

Please Advise- Wizzy :happy:

 

Yes that would work IMO, keeping the filtration totally separate and doing water changes on a regular basis in the quarantine tanks

 

Flow would be determined by what is in the aquariums meaning it would depend on how much flow the quarantined animals would need.

 

In the fish one I would have good strong current and of course no chemical filtration as you may be using additives in the tank to make sure the fish in there are "clean" of any disease or parasites by the time you move them to the main tank. Of course when you move them you will need to acclimate them (but then you know that)

 

Make the acclimating time long ... don't go too fast so you do not stress the fish

 

In terms of filtration I would hang one of those on the tank units on it and use floss or a similar material to build up biological filtration. That with the water changes should keep the conditions under control.

 

The whole set up does not have to be super sophisticated but you will need to test on a regular basis to make sure that all water qual params are in the right ranges

 

Note : when you buy fish make sure the LFS shows you that they eat and if you order online you need to get a guarantee from the seller IMO that the fish are eating and you need to know what food they are being fed so you can feed them the same. That is important to ensure that the fish remain in good health and "do" east" so you do not end up losing them because they thin out and eventually starve and die.

 

For additional circulation if it is needed you can use low strength power heads indeed

 

For the corals and inverts, yes egg crate would be fine IMO and a similar hang on filter. On this one you may want to use some form of chemical filtration but don't overdo it. but you may need a piece or two of real dead rock depending on what you put in that tank as not all corals like to sit on plain egg crate. You can buy dead rock and when you get it dip it in freshwater and kill off anything that may be on or in there and after the dip of say 2 hours or so, rinse it and rinse it again to really clean it off anything that may be on there but that after the dip should be dead and needs to be washed off the rock.

 

Never mix the water from the fish and the coral tank from one to the other, meaning don't take water from one tank and add it to the other

 

Keep two separate pairs of tools and implements you use and mark them (which tank they are used in) so that you do not transfer anything from say the fish tank to the coral one or vice-versa.

 

A lot of hobbyists overlook this and find out that disease or parasites are spread in that way (using only one set of tools and implements0

 

In fact I remember a specific case that happened in Las Cruces NM at a friend's of mine who had a similar set up as the one you describe and ended up with Aiptasia in the fish one ... go figure right ... how did it happen?

 

Well he was using the same tools and other implements for both tanks and must have transferred water that contained Aiptasia reproductive cells from the invert tank and added it to the fish tank and the Aiptasia grew and suddenly he had two of them in that tank.

 

If you are going to use only 1 set then you need to dip that set in water with bleach or something similar before you use it in the other tank and rinse it very well of course after dipping it in the bleach.

 

I would recommend however and have done so in my books, that you have 2 sets (easier to manage)

 

Hope this answers your questions but if you need more info do not hesitate to make another post and ask whatever you need more info about.

 

Albert

 

 

 

YVW Albert. BTW I have seen the same covered book on eBay UK in the past and note there are 2 of your books on there now by you but unfortunately not this one. Worth keeping an eye on though if you can't find one by other means. I also have both the books currently for sale on eBay UK. :)

 

Les.

 

Thanks Les and yes I will keep an eye on eBay ... I have seen the 10 Steps on ebay here but it is with the other cover ...

 

Appreciate the up and up

 

Albert

 

 

I've never found Moorish Idols particularly difficult to get eating, especially if they are housed in a tank with mature live rock where they can graze on algae and invertebrates before they start really chowing down on aquarium foods. The suspicion that so many are dying after 12-18 months from lack of sponge in their diet is IMhO just a repeated anecdote. There are plenty of exclusive sponge eaters (like Queen Angelfish, for example, which eat something like 97% sponge in the wild) that thrive for years on a varied diet of aquarium foods plus grazing from live rock.

 

My gut, based on several years experience with them, is that these fish are usually done in by low levels of chronic stress. What does that mean exactly? Housing them with tangs, angelfish, and the like, which I feel is a mistake. Even if you aren't seeing outright aggression, there is a stressor involved any time you place these fish together. Over time, feeding and grazing opportunities are compromised, nutrition starts to drop off, organs start to shut down, and you lose the fish. Then people say "oh, it got skinny and died because it wasn't getting the right diet".

 

We have a 7 year old MI with a foot long streamer that was thriving in a 250g tank; he is fed nothing but krill, mysis, prawn, clam, and herbivore gel. No sponges. There were also no tangs or angelfish in the tank. We recently moved him to a 200,000g reef tank. Sounds great right? All kinds of grazing opportunities, tons of live rock, etc. Problem is he sulked at the bottom of the tank, would not assert himself at feeding time among all the large tangs and angelfish, and over the course of several months started wasting away. So we moved him back to a holding tank for a few months, by himself, fed him like crazy, and sure enough he is fat and sassy again. These fish are really not that difficult, they just need to be kept in the right conditions. YMMV.

 

Thanks for your input on the Moorish Idols and I am pleased to read that you have been able to keep them alive for longer than what most hobbyists have been able to do .. thanks for the explanation too on what hobbyists should do.

 

Very informative

 

BTW where is the 200 K gallon aquarium. Thanks for letting us know

 

Albert

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atoll

Review of Ten East Steps showing my pic on the front cover here.

http://www.aquatic-care.com/bookreview.htm

There are quite a number of book shops showing they have copies for sale but alas they don't show the cover. Perhaps if you did a search and then emailed the sellers you might be lucky and find one.

 

Regards.

 

Les.

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albertthiel
Review of Ten East Steps showing my pic on the front cover here.

http://www.aquatic-care.com/bookreview.htm

There are quite a number of book shops showing they have copies for sale but alas they don't show the cover. Perhaps if you did a search and then emailed the sellers you might be lucky and find one.

 

Regards.

 

Les.

 

Thanks Les ...

 

Nice description of all the books listed there indeed .. .had to laugh a little on what they said about me though :) ... ... a bit overstated I thought but, hey, nice to read anyway :) Good link for info on books though.

 

I have all my books in new condition, except the 10-steps with the cover of your anemone. I will keep an eye on eBay and Craigslist here in the US and see if I can snatch a 10 Step (well buy I mean) with that anemone H magnifica on it ....

 

Albert

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atoll
Thanks Les ...

 

Nice description of all the books listed there indeed .. .had to laugh a little on what they said about me though :) ... ... a bit overstated I thought but, hey, nice to read anyway :) Good link for info on books though.

 

I have all my books in new condition, except the 10-steps with the cover of your anemone. I will keep an eye on eBay and Craigslist here in the US and see if I can snatch a 10 Step (well buy I mean) with that anemone H magnifica on it ....

 

Albert

 

 

Good luck with finding a mint copy Albert. I have 3 of your books and the other 2 are in better condition than this one. Shame you never brought out a hard back version though.I was very pleased to see my pic on the front cover when I bought Ten Easy Steps.

 

Regarding the H. magnifica on the cover. I had that nem for many years as stated earlier and when I got it I was unaware it was considered impossible to keep for any real length of time. I must have been doing something wrong :lol:

 

The nem would sit right under a 250w HQI with an Osram powerstar 5200k lamp. That was the highest K value lamps available at the time. I used to feed it once a week and I could control it's size buy the amount and how often I fed it. It would never move much and stayed firmly planted under the HQI lamp. When the time came to strip the tank down it measured approx 18" across and took up a fair part of my 6'6"x2'x2' tank.

 

The nem housed a mated pair of common clowns that laid eggs continually and a sub adult. I had that nem from around 1988 till 1995 when I sold it on. I never did find out how well it fared after.

 

I could go on but will bore you to death :lol:

 

Les.

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albertthiel

 

Oddly enough it is now Friday and I called a local Petco yesterday and asked for the Manager and you know what: he told me that he was not aware of it but that he remembered they had done so in the past but that he did not know whether they were doing one in the near future.

 

Of course that may not be unusual as I remember when working for another company years ago, the specials that would go in effect say on a week end would be communicated on Friday night after the store closed. Guess they did not want to put sales people in a difficult position when selling something the day before a big sale was going in effect and tell customers: "come back tomorrow and it will be a lot cheaper' :)

 

So I guess I will be calling them today and probably check the main web site and possibly go over to one close to where I live on Saturday and/or Sunday and see "what gives"

 

Sure would like to get some nice tanks for $1 per gallon that they are rated.

 

Albert

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albertthiel

Some interesting corals found on Coral Outlet's side (Montipora) and one from Dr. Sanjay Joshi's (Acropora but to yet definitely identified (Acropora carduus, A.walindii or maybe even A.halmaherae)

 

Montipora from Coral Outlet (some refer to it as Idaho Grape)

 

montigrapecoraloutlet.png

 

 

Acropora (Acropora carduus, A.walindii or maybe even A.halmaherae)

 

acroporasanjay.png

 

Link to the Acropora :

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/sanja...cropora-so-much

 

Albert

Edited by albertthiel

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albertthiel

Advanced Aquarist has shared many videos of Estherea Reef over the past year. Simply put, Estherea Reef is the reef tank dreams are made of.

 

Twelve minutes of new macro footage shows a captive ecosystem growing more vibrant with time.

 

Definitely worth watching :

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/glori...t-estherea-reef

 

Albert

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Spirofucci
Oddly enough it is now Friday and I called a local Petco yesterday and asked for the Manager and you know what: he told me that he was not aware of it but that he remembered they had done so in the past but that he did not know whether they were doing one in the near future.

 

Of course that may not be unusual as I remember when working for another company years ago, the specials that would go in effect say on a week end would be communicated on Friday night after the store closed. Guess they did not want to put sales people in a difficult position when selling something the day before a big sale was going in effect and tell customers: "come back tomorrow and it will be a lot cheaper' :)

 

So I guess I will be calling them today and probably check the main web site and possibly go over to one close to where I live on Saturday and/or Sunday and see "what gives"

 

Sure would like to get some nice tanks for $1 per gallon that they are rated.

 

Albert

 

Good luck withthe tank search!! Hope you find something you like. Ha, as you know the tank is the cheapest part! :)

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albertthiel
Good luck withthe tank search!! Hope you find something you like. Ha, as you know the tank is the cheapest part! :)

 

Spirofucci ... how well I know ... remember i used to sell and manufacture all that goes with it, and besides that comes the cost of the lifeforms, and then the cost associated with the needed maintenance which is what I found that a lot of hobbyists forget to factor in ... especially when they decide to go with a bit tank ..

 

Large tanks may seem very appealing but after all has been paid for ... then comes the cost of the maintenance and that can be quite expensive for large tanks. I should know ... my largest was 400/450 gallons when I was in New Mexico ... size depending on whether I left or removed a divider that was part of the tank ...

 

BTW ... found a great link to a Simply Amazing tank and the link also shows a lot of super videos about the 3600 liter tank (that's around 950 gallons so not a nano :) )

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/flash...ter-lfs-display

 

Albert

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albertthiel

Aquarium Invertebrates: Phestilla Nudibranchs: Cryptic Enemies of Porites, Goniopora, Tubastrea and Dendrophyllia Corals and an Identification of 'Montipora-eating Nudibranchs' by Dana Riddle

 

Very interesting to read since it deals with parasites and other pests that attack our Corals. Deals mainly with two Nudibranchs that can create total havoc in our aquariums

 

Great read ....

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/6/inverts

 

Albert

 

----------------------------------

 

 

Not sure how many members have actually read an article on what skimmers do and how they function and what types are available.

 

This is a general type article but it covers protein skimmers in quite a bit of detail and you may find that it contains information you may not have been aware of

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_skimmer

 

and a link to commercial ones (with graphics)

 

http://solar-components.com/protskim.HTM

 

Any comments are appreciated

 

Albert

Edited by albertthiel

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albertthiel

MANGROVES:

 

Below is the text of an article I wrote a long time ago and not all what is stated may be the most up to date approach as advances in how to keep mangrove have been made over the years BUT most of it is still applicable.

 

Note that some of the links to other pages many no longer be active as the sites may have been taken down.

 

Any comments are appreciated and any contributions to give readers more information are as well. Thanks

 

Albert

 

"quote"

What to do when your Mangroves Arrive?

 

Written May 4, 1998 - Also available on the Thiel Technologies Site http://www.www.athiel.com via the search link on the top right of the main page

 

This is what I sent to those receiving mangroves (instructions) in addition to what you will find in this document and the ones linked to it. I suggest you read them all as they all contain useful information.

 

When the mangroves arrive here is what I would like you to do and suggest:

 

Have some aged saltwater ready (you can use aquarium water for instance), unpack the mangroves and rinse them in the above SW, no need for real thorough forceful rinsing though, just swish them gently through that water, leave them out of the water lying on a towel in the same room as where the aquarium is and let them slowly acclimate to the room's temperature for a while.

 

An hour or so should be plenty but you can do so for longer as long as you keep the propagules (mangroves) moist by either spraying them with some water or by keeping the towel on which they are lying, moist. If you spray them spray with FW and spray the tops only.

 

If the roots need spraying use SW, after this is completed follow the directions in the document on our web site and the linked document that shows how to insert them in styrofoam (www.athiel.com/lib11/manstart.htm)

have some plant nutrient or better even, iron supplement available and start adding that to the sump.

 

If you can find an iron test you want to try to get an iron ppm reading of 0.03 ppm or a little higher,

if you have no test follow the directions on the label of the bottle but on the first couple of days double the dose as most of what you add will precipitate out,

the temp of the water they go in should be around 78 F

the salinity anywhere from 1.023 to 1.025

the pH between 8.1 and 8.4

you do not need to add phosphate or nitrate, there is plenty of it in the tank

install them as shown in the linked doc referenced above,

give them plenty of light as explained

mangroves may go dormant when traveling or better said, shipped. To get them out of dormancy can take weeks. Iron and light and especially a few hours of sunlight a day will help a great deal in speeding this up

mangroves that have knobs at the end where the roots are are beginning to grow roots.

 

If they have roots you can't miss seeing them. The knobs though are the beginning of roots and are where you will see the first growth come out, mangroves may or may not have leaves. Most of the leaves they come with will die and new ones will grow. This is normal and should not alarm you new leaves start as a fine bright green pointy protrusion coming out at the top.

 

Well I think that sort of does it but do read the document referenced above

 

And another article ...............

 

What do you do when your Mangroves Arrive

 

Unpack the box and remove the propagules, or seedlings, from the plastic bag. Some propagules have more roots than others, but all have the beginning of roots (knobs). Some have longer roots than others and some have more than a few. The diversity is normal and does not mean that one is better than the other.

 

In essence, when knobs are present or when small roots are visible (whether white, translucent or red), the root growing process has started or is in progress. Some seedlings already have leaves and some have beginnings of leaves (real light green pointy and emerging from the top of the mangrove). Some show green leaves and others may show leaves that have started to turn brown. This is normal too. Some have green leaves but you may see brown spots on them. Again this is normal.

 

When taken out of the water, transported, stressed and so on, mangoves tend to do this and tend to go into what is called a state of dormancy. This is a state and a time where the propagule is susceptible to heat, drying, wrinkling, becoming soft and is generally prone to being damaged if proper care is not taken.

 

Often the leaves that they now have will die off and new ones will grow so, if you see this happen to yours, do not worry. New ones will grow as long as you are patient and follow the directions in this document and the one linked to a little lower (Update 6). Patience is what is really needed as when propagules go dormant, it can take several weeks of proper care before they actually come out of it. They may appear in bad shape to you but in reality they are not.

 

Your propagules have been acclimated to a salinity of 1.023-1.025. You do not need to acclimate them again. You can add them in the fashion described in the other documents directly to your sump. That other document and the one by a hobbyist who set them up and added graphics to the second document, both describe the process in far greater detail. This one just gives you supplemental information.

 

Here is an article that shows graphics of how to set your mangroves up. A Hobbyist (Mike) sets up his newly arrived mangrove seeds and shows you the graphics of how he has done so. Check this article for details and graphics on how to first set up your Mangrove Seeds.

 

Also check The Feb. Issue of EPARC's Newsletter for a detailed article on Mangroves

 

It is a good idea to give them plenty of light but the heat from the light source should "not" reach the top of the seedlings. This is also described in that first document. Make sure (again) that if you place your hand by, meaning close to the progagule you cannot feel the heat of the light! If too much heat reaches the actual part that is out of the water it will dry out and die.

 

If some of the roots have broken during transportation, remove the broken part only. Do not remove the entire root. Only the part that is damaged should be nipped off and thrown away. This happens and is not harmful or a problem. Roots regrow. It may take some time but, believe me, they do.

 

Rinse the mangrove in some tank water before placing them in your sump. This will remove loose material and any bad smell that may have been brought about from transportation. In the beginning, after you have them in your sump, spray the tops with some fresh water once a day. Although this is not absolutely necessary, it is helpful in preventing drying out. An aerosol spray bottle is perfect for this purpose.

 

Add an iron supplement, a plant or macro-algae fertilizer for a few weeks (an FW fertilizer or SW macro-algae fertilizer will do). Follow the directions on the label. This is an excellent idea to get root growth to continue or start, depending on the case. It also assists in keeping leaves green and getting new ones to grow. Once the mangroves take off they uptake their needed nutrients from the water (which is why you bought them to begin with). Before that it is a good idea to give them a little help so to speak.

 

If you use the Thiel Aqua Tech iron supplement or their Macro-Algae Fertilizer, here are the suggested dosages:

 

Pure Iron Supplement: (only soluble iron)

 

Day 1 to day 5: 2 drops per gallon of water in your system.

Day 6 to day 10: 1 drop per gallon of water in your system.

Day 11 and onwards if you continue: 1 drop per gallon in the system every other day. If you continue do so for 3 to 4 weeks maximum.

 

Macro-Algae Fertlizer: or a newer version of a multi element supplement

 

From day 1 to day 15 add 1 drop per gallon of water in your system every day.

From day 16 to day 30 add 1 drop per gallon in your system every other day.

The results of over 13 months of testing Mangroves and their uptake of nutrients and impact on water quality. This doc is in in .rtf and Wordpad will open it. You can use a text editor as well. Make sure you line all columns up correctly. You will know you did so if all listings for the 6 tanks for pH results start with 8.3. Set your margins for 0.75 and it should line up. I will make an HTML out of it but have not been able to do so yet. If you use a Mac, use a text editor to view the document (just change the extension to txt or remove it).

 

Well to all who receive mangroves in the next day or two, or those who already have mangroves, these articles will give you quite a bit of additional information.

 

For more information you can also go to the GARF site and do a search for Mangroves.

-----------------

 

Note that this was written quite some time ago but most of the recommendations are still valid and can be used by those who add Mangroves to their tank but preferably to their refugium.

 

 

Albert

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