Tanked!

[jnelson]

I watched a Tanked Marathon on Friday night. I have to say, I am entertained.

 

Brett seems very defensive in his interview. I don't agree with his view, but he's entitled to it. If you care about this hobby and want people to enjoy it, don't show them behavior that will have them ending in failure and bailing on it (I know he can't control the editing). We also don't need PETA and co. breathing down our necks. They have an incredibly large platform to reach viewers. There's no reason you can't entertain and be educational at the same time. Dirty Jobs? Meerkat Manor? Myth Busters?

 

Apparently they've brought at least one person to the hobby. I met a really nice guy at my LFS this weekend that was setting up his first reef tank. I asked him what got him interested... you guessed it... Tanked. To be fair he is very well versed in high tech FW aquariums.

 

That being said, just bringing people into the hobby doesn't mean it's healthy. Finding Nemo was the biggest shot in the arm for reefing in recent times. I wonder how many dead Nemos there are or Dories placed in cramped confines.

 

Animal Planet has to share some of this blame.

 

It really comes down to personal responsibility and due diligence. It is up to the people who become interested in saltwater tanks to take the time and do the research to determine the best way to become engaged in the hobby. If these people don't do things in a responsible manner then it really is not the show's fault.

 

It would be akin to blaming The Fast and The Furious for street racing - sure, the show depicts people in fast cars doing somewhat dangerous things, but any reasonable person would know that jumping in their Honda Civic and "rippin dat e-brake" to drift around corners isn't something that can be done with no experience or training.

[dufybug]

there was a time when i managed a store when the inserts where really hot. one issue facing the hobby is destroying reefs to collect animals for sale. in poor nations, it isnt unusual for them to poison a whole reef to collect the fish. then they put them in tanks and the ones that live are shipped to wholesalers and then local shops for sale. hundreds may die to provide us with a handful for sale. at the same time, whole sections of reef are destroyed. then there is the whole debate about long term survival of the animals in a captive tank, where many species have their lifespans cut short by our inability to duplicate the actual ocean. these inserts, along with tank raised animals were a means to make the hobby more sustainable. there are hobbiest out there that are completely against raping reefs for animals, and those are some of the people that have come up with the fake stuff. i can see many points in what they are saying.

 

in the end, no tv show is going to be able to cover a process as slow to evolve as we know it is. i think you have to realize it is just tv. i am not sure it is worth walking around hacked off at the world over.

 

when i began keeping fish, it was undergravel filters and power heads. there were shops using constant water changes, and no bio filter at all at that point. in the years to come, the way we do things now may seem equally as irresponsible. who knows, but if you enjoy this hobby, you are going to have to go through a learning process, and good animals are going to pay a price as we all learn.

[VGT]

there was a time when i managed a store when the inserts where really hot. one issue facing the hobby is destroying reefs to collect animals for sale. in poor nations, it isnt unusual for them to poison a whole reef to collect the fish. then they put them in tanks and the ones that live are shipped to wholesalers and then local shops for sale. hundreds may die to provide us with a handful for sale. at the same time, whole sections of reef are destroyed. then there is the whole debate about long term survival of the animals in a captive tank, where many species have their lifespans cut short by our inability to duplicate the actual ocean. these inserts, along with tank raised animals were a means to make the hobby more sustainable. there are hobbiest out there that are completely against raping reefs for animals, and those are some of the people that have come up with the fake stuff. i can see many points in what they are saying.

 

That responsibility lies with the hobbyist, not the collector. I only buy tank-bred fish, and aquacultured corals.

[nor_cal_nano]

all your thread are belong to us? dont think you should be citing grammar....

 

Lol?

 

AYBABTU

[lkoechle]

I actually became interested in reef keeping because of Tanked. The thing is, is there are different types of people out there. I am the person who carefully researches things before getting into them. A lot of people just do what they want when they want.

 

I also kept rats as pets and they are sorely misunderstood. When the movie Ratatouille came out I was excited for the positive press. It brought a lot of good rat owners to the table. And a lot of bad owners that put their animals in a cage four sizes too small because petsmart labeled it a "rat cage" and fed them a seed based diet. For the record, the minimum adequate cage size is usually branded as a small ferret cage and feeding a seed diet to a rat is like putting humans on McDonald's only diet.

 

I think its great the hobby is getting exposure from the show, but it's really up to us and vendors to help people make informed decisions. Some research like me and that's fantastic, but for others the quickest way to stop a dumb decision is at the store. I question owners all the time where I work and try to give them helpful information and resources to do their own research. We can't force them to "do it right" only encourage them to. I don't blame the tv shows or the movies though. I also really like the cool tank designs, but wonder how practical it is like Cake Boss. Amazing looking cakes, but have you eaten fondant? That stuff is nasty.

[bioload]

Sorry, attorneys get involved doing what exactly? A dead fish lawsuit?

 

Apparently I need to spell it out. How about this:

 

You will need to have liability insurance for your aquarium business. To insulate yourself from lawsuits that could wreck your life you should set up your business as a limited liability corporation or LLC. This can be done in most states for less than $500. Your business will only prosper if you know how to take care of every kind of situation that can arise. If you prescribe the wrong treatment for an aquarium you could easily kill hundreds or even thousands of dollars worth of fish. A release form for your business is a necessity as well as insurance.

 

We are talking about wealthy people here. Do you really think attorneys won't become involved when people spend thousands of dollars for these aquarium installations if they become total failures? Its called not getting what you payed for. As a business owner I can tell you that "word of mouth" can either make or break you.

[Formula462]

Lol?

 

AYBABTU

 

Does not get the reference lol

[JaneG]

They aren't -good- at reefkeeping, but they know just enough (i.e. the bare minimum) to act like they have a high horse worthy of speaking from to bash the most experienced and successful tank builders in the world.

Personally, I don't doubt that they are one of the best tank builders in the world - the tanks they do build are beautiful for being fake - but that's much different than actually knowing about keeping the fish. Do you really think it's a wise choice to keep many Bangaii cardinals together, long-term? Or that it's ok to stock a 250g (I believe) gumball tank with 50 fish? There were little to no hiding spots so none of them really have territories. Additionally, it wasn't necessary to take the fish out of the water - especially the puffers, who obviously didn't respond well to it. Finding Nemo gave an "eco-friendly" message which, to me, basically said to keep fish in the wild. However, many aquarium owners literally dumped their fish back into the ocean and this has caused invasive species. Not to mention the fact that the movie has been linked to the endangerment of clownfish. I do think they bare some responsibility in this aspect. I think that no matter what happens, people will go out and buy tanks and fish with little to no research. However, they could include, as someone suggested, a disclaimer or short section about actually keeping fish, which would probably end up having a relatively large impact. It's TV so I don't think it's realistic to expect certain things from them, but I think it really would be a good idea.

[HecticDialectics]

Not to mention the fact that the movie has been linked to the endangerment of clownfish.

 

Only if you play fast and loose with the definition of the word "linked" lol

[tam]

What he did mention was that they don't want them showing hooking a hose up to a water line, when in fact they had premixed RO and salt on a truck.

 

The "mob" tank at the Tropicana is the tank in question. They hooked the hose up to a hot water line in the building, temps were too high so they had added ice to cool it down.

[21093r53]

Lol?

 

AYBABTU

 

 

LOLz my bad

[d9hp]

The "mob" tank at the Tropicana is the tank in question. They hooked the hose up to a hot water line in the building, temps were too high so they had added ice to cool it down.

 

Really?

 

I just figured they were in the desert or something and the water on the truck got hot.

[StevieT]

The "mob" tank at the Tropicana is the tank in question. They hooked the hose up to a hot water line in the building, temps were too high so they had added ice to cool it down.

 

And you are not listening. They did not fill the tank from a hose on a hot water tap line. Either the water they brought in was too hot from being in the vegas or that they ran water through their on site RO and it was coming out too warm or the entire thing was fake.

 

The producers piece this junk together to make you feel the drama. Even if they put a hose on a tap line and it was coming out too hot and they used RO ice to cool it down, they didn't add fish that night. Fake, for TV.

 

Really?

 

I just figured they were in the desert or something and the water on the truck got hot.

 

nope, it's cold in the desert at night. The water was almost frozen so they hooked up a hot water tap line to get it up. But they put in too much so they needed ice that they fished out of the urinals.

 

After the temp was right they dumped in all the expensive fish. The next day when the tank was relieved everything was floating and it was so embarrassing. But on TV... they had CG artists make it look like they were all alive. If you look closely at those scenes, you can see the pixels.

[HecticDialectics]

lol

[d9hp]

nope, it's cold in the desert at night. The water was almost frozen so they hooked up a hot water tap line to get it up. But they put in too much so they needed ice that they fished out of the urinals.

 

After the temp was right they dumped in all the expensive fish. The next day when the tank was relieved everything was floating and it was so embarrassing. But on TV... they had CG artists make it look like they were all alive. If you look closely at those scenes, you can see the pixels.

 

Perfect I thought I saw something fishy.

[JaneG]

Only if you play fast and loose with the definition of the word "linked" lol

I would say it has. How many kids do you see wanting clownfish because they're clownfish rather than "Nemo"?

 

"Studies of clownfish on Australia’s Great Barrier Reef have revealed a dramatic population decline since the release of the movie in 2003. Shoals that used to number dozens of clownfish have dwindled to just a few specimens, leaving them with difficulty breeding, Dr Sinclair says"

 

I can't go into any fish stores without hearing "I found Nemo!"

[HecticDialectics]

I'd hardly call speculation by a single scientist a great link lol

 

Lemme know when they're actually endangered...

[JaneG]

I'd hardly call speculation by a single scientist a great link lol

 

Lemme know when they're actually endangered...

Maybe not in general, but in certain areas...there was even a topic about it written by someone here on NR (although they did cite Dr. Sinclair a lot - however, I have no idea why you think an accredited marine biologist lacks credibility)

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=195006

http://www.oceans.com.au/nemo-controversy.html

I can probably find more sources but I'm too lazy to at the moment

[Lee Van Reef]

Does that mean that tanked is going to make coral inserts endangered?!

[JaneG]

Does that mean that tanked is going to make coral inserts endangered?!

My point was that, yes, the entertainment industry *does* have an effect on this kind of thing.

[Lee Van Reef]

Well yea. But the problem is that most people are to quick to put all the blame on things like tv shows and video games. Correlation does not imply causation.

[JaneG]

Well yea. But the problem is that most people are to quick to put all the blame on things like tv shows and video games. Correlation does not imply causation.

This axiom isn't quite correct. Correlation can imply causation, but it doesn't prove causation. Quite honestly, I've even had people come in to the shop I intern at and literally just spur of the moment ask to buy a Nemo to satisfy their whining kids - I highly doubt they would do so if it weren't for the movie. Clownfish were popular before Finding Nemo but never so much so. Additionally, someone on this topic themselves set up an aquarium as a result of the show. Obviously, it is drawing interest to the aquarium hobby, but because it doesn't offer/show "proper" ways of keeping aquariums the outcome probably won't always be as ideal as it could be.

[JoelRHale]

Well yea. But the problem is that most people are to quick to put all the blame on things like tv shows and video games. Correlation does not imply causation.

 

+1, if it did, ice cream sales would cause drowning. Seeing as both increase during the summer.

[HecticDialectics]

Maybe not in general, but in certain areas...there was even a topic about it written by someone here on NR (although they did cite Dr. Sinclair a lot - however, I have no idea why you think an accredited marine biologist lacks credibility)

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=195006

http://www.oceans.com.au/nemo-controversy.html

I can probably find more sources but I'm too lazy to at the moment

 

Protip: when only a single scientist is cited in a bunch of newspapers citing some radical claim such as "clownfish are endangered" ... the scientist is probably wrong. Things like that don't get widespread coverage because they're accurate. They get widespread coverage because it's sensationalist and gets page views (i.e. cash, in the internet news age).

 

Clownfish, quite simply, are not endangered. The second page you link more accurately states that in popular fishery grounds, clownfish numbers are down in some areas as much as 50%. These numbers are still very much sustainable and nowhere near endangered levels.

[JaneG]

Protip: when only a single scientist is cited in a bunch of newspapers citing some radical claim such as "clownfish are endangered" ... the scientist is probably wrong. Things like that don't get widespread coverage because they're accurate. They get widespread coverage because it's sensationalist and gets page views (i.e. cash, in the internet news age).

 

Clownfish, quite simply, are not endangered. The second page you link more accurately states that in popular fishery grounds, clownfish numbers are down in some areas as much as 50%. These numbers are still very much sustainable and nowhere near endangered levels.

Not necessarily widespread endangerment - however, I wouldn't doubt it has caused their numbers to drop quite a bit. If the population is down as much as 50% they *should* be listed as endangered, by the way.

 

"According to the World Conservation Monitoring Centre (WCMC), there are several criteria for defining an endangered species. A species only has to meet one of the following conditions to qualify:

 

A population reduction of at least 50% over the last 10 years or three generations.

An area of occupancy estimated to be less than 500 square kilometers.

A population estimated to number less than 2500 mature individuals with clear evidence that this number is declining quickly.

A total population estimated to number less than 250 mature individuals.

Quantitative analysis showing the probability of extinction in the wild is at least 20% within 20 years or 5 generations. "

 

Aquatic Community goes more in-depth about it and (albeit no citation) even claims sales went up 8 fold after the movie was released. Have you actually been diving in the area the author talks about? Have you, yourself, witnessed the decrease in population? I know I haven't, but I bet a marine biologist isn't willing to put his reputation on the line for a few news articles. To me, this is similar to the people who don't believe in climate change because they haven't witnessed it themselves (although that's a whole other debate)...no offense intended, just putting my opinion out there