Nanobuds Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 looking good jacob!! i mean the tank i wish i lived near the beach, but im stuck here in boring old missouri Link to comment
Jacobnano Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share Posted August 20, 2009 It applies to me anyway Yup, now that I have my camera I can start putting money back into the tank, they all seem empty (except my CW tank) and boring to me. Link to comment
Jamie Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 For the record, bubble tips and christmas nems are not closely related. here is a great source for anemone ID, listed by family. Notice how Urticina is under family Actiniidae and Entacmaea is under Stichodactylidae. yours specifically: http://actiniaria.com/urticina_grebelnyi.php For the record, while many guidebookis, including my own, list this species as U. crassicornis, it is in fact U. grebelnyi as the website states. Link to comment
Jacobnano Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 I figured they weren't, and I actually looked at that site a few days ago. Well I am going on a 3 day hike tomorrow, hopefully everything will be fine. Link to comment
Kraylen Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 CW is sick, I wish I could do a CW here but its illegal! Link to comment
Jacobnano Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 Hey Kray, ya its pretty dang awesome. Nothings illegal for me mwuhahaha...also we own the tidelands. Link to comment
steveweast Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Ok just did some tests, my tank is under control!!!! Yay! I am gonna post some more pics because everything is open and happy! As someone who has years of experience with coldwater tanks, I have a few thoughts..... 1) Your tank is not under control. It takes months to build up sufficient bacterial populations to support all that you're trying to keep. I spent 5 months dosing massive amounts of NH4Cl in an unpopulated tank to build up sufficient bacterial populations. Coldwater tanks take much longer than warm water tanks to cycle. 2) Why are you running so strong of lights ? With all that die-off....and obvious bacterial blooms from the cloudy water.....you're destined for one hell of an algae bloom which will smother your livestock. Your back wall already has quite alot of brown algae on it....and that's only after a couple of weeks. Nothing in that tank needs light except the nussiance algae. I'd keep the lights off until you gain some control....which will be many weeks or months from now. The cloudy water (indicative of a bacterial bloom) is a sign of stress......the water should be crystal clear (except at feeding time). Something like this... http://www.oregonreef.com/images/photos/cold_blue%20star.jpg 3) The anemones do not look happy to me. As someone who dives the Sound every month, I can say that they are not happy. The anemones should be MUCH more expanded.....more like this: http://www.oregonreef.com/images/photos/co...n%20anemone.jpg http://www.oregonreef.com/images/photos/co...e%20anemone.jpg A plumose anemone should look like this when happy... http://emeralddiving.com/images/Anemones_P...NB_IMG_3335.jpg 4) I also would not place a spiny lumpsucker in a small tank with fish eating anemones.....although I'm sure the anemones would disagree with me. 5) You've got some very small particlate filter feeders in there.....and no mention of food or feeding techniques. I've been forced to install quite elaborate automated feeding devices on my system to maintain the non photosynthetic critters. 6) I'm not trying to be negative......I just think that you're wrong in thinking that everything is OK. IMO, it is a stressed tank that will see much more die-off before stablization.....not to mention....the coming algae battle. I really wish you well and hope that I'm wrong..... 7) Love the tubeworms.....but, I'd imagine that feeding the right size and amount of food will be problematic if they make it through the high NO2 and NH4 levels. 8) Even when you make it through your cycle and get NO2 and NH4 back to zero.....you'll still have high NO3 to worry about. I've had several critters experience stress above 25ppm NO3.....of course, you can control that through very frequent water changes.....but, the mass required feedings will lead to very frequent water changes. I use carbon dosings to control both N & P in my system. 9) In general....I'd keep the lights off most of the time....perform daily water changes....remove any dying critter daily....and let the tank build up some bacterial populations. I just think you're rushing the process too much. Your anemones, snails, and crabs should make it......but, everthing else will be a long shot. It's only been a couple of weeks....the next month will tell the tale on who will make it through. The first month is all about who will survive the poor water quality....month 2 & 3 will be about who is getting the right size and amount of food (assuming the water quality is maintained through daily water changes). 1 Link to comment
horusmachine Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Thank you Steve for your great wealth of knowledge. I know all of us look to your experience as a guide to successful coldwater to temperate tank keeping. Jacob you are in good hands with Steve's comments. Before I started my tank I reviewed and studied his advice and techniques, therefore It laid out a firm groundwork to proceed by. I do love your tank, and I hope it is a successful stabile one. H Link to comment
Jamie Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 +1 to steve and horus. You're not out of the woods yet! But hopefully your tank doesn't undergo any more die-offs while it's building up it's bacterial populations. Link to comment
Jacobnano Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Thanks guys I really appreciate the advice (not sarcastic). I would like to say that the water really isn't cloudy (I am dumb and don't clean the glass) but ya there is still some die off happening. I have the lights off right now and will keep them off. I am getting a bit of brown algae in the back, but really isn't too bad, still a problem none the less. Sorry for the short response (still unpacking, I was camping) but I guess I should probably do another water change pretty soon. How many gallons should I change out if I am doing daily changes? Link to comment
Hero Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 You have a great looking setup! Link to comment
Jacobnano Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Thanks I wish I could say the same about the livestock, there has been a lot of die off. Link to comment
Jacobnano Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Well there had to be a cycle I guess. It would be even worse if it wasn't all from the ocean, but still the bacteria has to build itsef up I guess. Link to comment
Nanobuds Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 thats why u didnt cycle the tank... pics! Link to comment
Jacobnano Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Hahaha not for a while. All of the lights are off. Link to comment
Hero Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Hopefully you will stop loosing any more livestock. Dont you have some form of natural algae control in your aquarium? Link to comment
Jacobnano Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Yea snails and other stuff. I am good there. Link to comment
C-Rad Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I spent 5 months dosing massive amounts of NH4Cl in an unpopulated tank to build up sufficient bacterial populations. Coldwater tanks take much longer than warm water tanks to cycle.... 5) You've got some very small particlate filter feeders in there.....and no mention of food or feeding techniques. I've been forced to install quite elaborate automated feeding devices on my system to maintain the non photosynthetic critters. I agree with Steve. My cold tank took five months before my bacteria colonies could keep the nitrites down. since bacteria grow more slowly in colder water, I suggest that you raise your temperature to whatever the warmest natural temp is for these animals in the wild, so that your filter will mature a little faster. What do you use as a bio filter, to provide a place for the bacteria to live? As for feeding the filter feeders, I too found that it was tricky. Steve feeds three times per day, and bypasses the filtration system for 30 minutes during feeding (while keeping the circulation pumps on for lots of flow) so that the filter doesn't remove the food that the filter feeders want. My animals didn't start thriving until I did the same thing (although I only feed twice per day because I can't afford an automated system like Steve's) I applaud your initiative and enthusiasm! CW is sick, I wish I could do a CW here but its illegal! Where do you live that it is illegal to have a cold water aquarium? I have one in California, where many people are under the false impression that it is illegal. In California, some animals are illegal, and some places are off limits to collecting, but there is still a lot of fun to be had legally (with a sport fishing license). Link to comment
Jacobnano Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share Posted August 27, 2009 I have a really basic filter, I should probably put something in there for the bacteria to live in. What exactly do you feed your filter feeders? Link to comment
Hero Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 What exactly do you feed your filter feeders? Plankton foods. There are bottles of stuff you can buy at LFS's. Im assuming plankton is plankton and it doesnt matter if its for temperate or tropical filter feeders. Link to comment
steveweast Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I have a really basic filter, I should probably put something in there for the bacteria to live in. What exactly do you feed your filter feeders? This varies with the animal.....some livestock needs cyclopeeze or mysis sized food (like corynactis).....some need rotifer sized food (like tubeworms or gorgonians).....others need oyster egg sized food (like barnacles).....while still others require phyto sized food (like clams and oysters). Thats why I feed oyster eggs, phyto, cyclopeeze, rotifers, and mysis several times a day each. As for your biological system (which apparently is minimal).....these tanks are not warm water tanks....and they need a substantial biological population. That population will cover rocks, sand, pipes, glass etc.....but, it will still not be enough (especially with native, dense rocks). I filled a good portion of my sump with submerged bioballs.....which are nothing but high density plastic apartments for bacteria. You should also be testing for NO2 (nitrite) daily.....as you know, any nitrite is deadly poisonous to most of your remaining livestock. Dilution is your only way to control it until those bacteria populations develop.....which will probably take several months. The problem is....you will also need to feed heavily to maintain your livestock......and this will further pollute your water. This is why heavy skimming is a must have on these systems. Without a skimmer.....not only does water quality suffer....but, the dissolved O2 levels fall to dangerous levels. Coldwater critters demand high O2 levels......and these O2 levels are hard to acheive without a high powered skimmer. My skimmer is rated for a tank 5 times the size of my system.....plus, I use O3 (ozone). I see constant water changes in future unfortunately.......or a dead tank. Also, you mentioned that "all values were good"......which values ? At a minimum, you should be daily testing for pH, No2, No3, NH4, Alkalinity, and salinity (calibrated for the temperature)......beyond these.....I test for Ca, Mg, and most importantly PO4. 1 Link to comment
Jacobnano Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share Posted August 27, 2009 I think I am gonna lose all of my filter feeders, well most of them. I just can't supply all of the food they need. Time to find some bioballs I guess. And when I get more money invest in a skimmer. Link to comment
steveweast Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I think I am gonna lose all of my filter feeders, well most of them. I just can't supply all of the food they need. Time to find some bioballs I guess. And when I get more money invest in a skimmer. Or control it with water changes.....your tank is small and managable afterall. Link to comment
Jacobnano Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share Posted August 27, 2009 Thats true. A four gallon change is basically a 40% change because of the deep sand bed. Link to comment
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