Need fast cycle or instant even better

[karen nation]

8 minutes ago, kimberbee said:

That ammonia ain't 0... 

Do you have this kit? It has never been 0.5 since I have been checking because 0.5 has no yellow to it.  I have always thought it was holding at o.25 possibly zero and it slightly changed a more yellowish green last night, so I was assuming that was zero.  These tests suck for ammonia.  Its to slight of a difference from 0.25 to zero.  It should change shades all the way like the nitrites do!  It was purple and now blue as it can be and it matchs the card perfectly for 0.  I guess I will check out some stores today that use the kit Ratvan recommended Salivert.  I have read people who agree their kits are better as well maybe its just the color chart api uses sucks, not neselarry the kit. 

[Clown79]

1 hour ago, karen nation said:

Do you have this kit? It has never been 0.5 since I have been checking because 0.5 has no yellow to it.  I have always thought it was holding at o.25 possibly zero and it slightly changed a more yellowish green last night, so I was assuming that was zero.  These tests suck for ammonia.  Its to slight of a difference from 0.25 to zero.  It should change shades all the way like the nitrites do!  It was purple and now blue as it can be and it matchs the card perfectly for 0.  I guess I will check out some stores today that use the kit Ratvan recommended Salivert.  I have read people who agree their kits are better as well maybe its just the color chart api uses sucks, not neselarry the kit. 

Never had an issue with api.

 

When its yellow its 0. If its green, there is ammonia present.

[kimberbee]

1 hour ago, karen nation said:

Do you have this kit? 

Yeah

[natedg200202]

The ammonia test - is it supposed to look cloudy like that?

[Clown79]

1 hour ago, natedg200202 said:

The ammonia test - is it supposed to look cloudy like that?

Ya it can. It's the regent. I've never seen it clear until it turns yellow but not a  clear see through yellow like the nitrate.

[karen nation]

On 1/27/2020 at 7:47 AM, Ratvan said:

Good idea, I do like to see what tests LFS use. 

As I said it could be the colours on the photograph but the ammonia in this one looks like 0.50PPM to me

 

Nitrate also looks at about 40PPM, which is where my tanks naturally sit

So utterly confusing those amonia colors!  Look how much lighter it is than the previous, the previous was much darker but not as green as 0.50 so I assumed this was zero and the one before 0.25.  I throw my hands in the air at this point!  i watched api youtubes to see results and some said this color nitrites were 0.25 and that nitrites will turn a brighter blue. What do you think about the nitrites?  Maybe my ammonia was 0.15 or something because adding amonia to test shot my nitrites back up and I am back to the old results.   I aint going near a test kit for days now!  haha

[Ratvan]

On 1/27/2020 at 3:12 PM, Clown79 said:

Never had an issue with api.

 

When its yellow its 0. If its green, there is ammonia present.

Clown pretty much nailed it there for the API test. Needs no green in it to be 0.

4 minutes ago, karen nation said:

So utterly confusing those amonia colors!  Look how much lighter it is than the previous, the previous was much darker but not as green as 0.50 so I assumed this was zero and the one before 0.25.  I throw my hands in the air at this point!  i watched api youtubes to see results and some said this color nitrites were 0.25 and that nitrites will turn a brighter blue. What do you think about the nitrites?  Maybe my ammonia was 0.15 or something because adding amonia to test shot my nitrites back up and I am back to the old results.   I aint going near a test kit for days now!  haha

 

[karen nation]

So heres the deal!  Hubby was off and daughter so we went to movies and out to eat. So I didnt get to call around like I said I would but did grab up some water and went to a different LFS being my other uses api, and closed on monday.  I was hoping he had a salifert like ratvan had recommended.  Of corse he had an api and I think they all do since its the cheapest!  Can you believe this idiot at that LFS told me the only way to cycle was with a damsel? 

 

 Anyway he said looked like I was good!  I came home and added a little ammonia to see if it would convert (final test)  because that's what those articles said, but I guess that is if I had been dosing and following their method all along.  Anyway after doing that, today my nitrites are up and ammonia still about the same.  Makes me wonder if I was there and should have changed water and got fish today BUT If it gave me nitrites after dosing 3 drops than what would happen when the fish got in there?  Although maybe 3 drops of ammonia might be alot more than a fish would put out!  Do you guys do a test run If not dosing or just wait to fall to zero, then change water? I give up for a while!  Putting kit away and getting back to my life!  Will take days to fall again anyway! 

 

I have come to the conclusion only YOU GUYS know anything!  I hope you will continue to help me!  I guess all those articles I kept pulling up saying to dose with ammonia were if you have a goldfish or something and need a really strong cycle, because one of them said that, but the others just said dose.  I dosed a couple days, because it was converting it back  BUT funny thing is as soon as I stopped dosing (like you guys said) nitrites fell and turned blue!  So obviously when I dosed it those days that is what kept them purple!

 

You guys are extremely knowledgeable and I shouldn't have looked any further, but after I asked you guys I didnt even wait for the reply, I just started searching and thats what I keep reading to do, was dose.  So I did.  Should have listened to you guys once again! Good thing I only dosed twice! This method would get me there with a strong cycle but obviously take longer and this original post was instant or fast cycle. (meaning get fish in fast, because I know cycling takes a while, and I suppose I was speaking of biospira) Its been a while and dont recall what I was asking lol. I do know I was caught off guard after I came back from hospital and was finding I was deep into cycle and had high nitrates and all.  I was like WTF.... What now.?  My dumb ass should have been researching this before instead of staying up all night researching gear, fish, coals.. But I wasnt planning that method.  I dint know within a few hours after filling I would get sick as a dog and my son would be hospitized for weeks!  That shit cost me a 1,000.00 coral I won!  I just found out that was a holy grail!  Very long story!  They still have my money and havnt responded to email..Praying I get lucky! Because I have a LFS to keep my corals, I may just change to a few...anything they want to get that 1,000 coral!  Sorry, I f I am repeating myself but my memory sucks!  This post has become so long, that I cant remember all I have said in previous ones. 

 

I have had some real bad luck concerning this tank, and just everything it seems...My luck has to turn because it couldnt get any worse!  I do know that I am putting the kit away because it took a few days to turn blue last time.  Not even sure if I am supposed to do a test run and add ammonia to see if it will convert ,because all those articles that said to were the ones that were dosing and keeping it at 2ppm.  I also question if I had nitrites even with this kit.  I did see some pics online that turned a brighter blue (could be lighting) but mine sure didnt have any purple or look the next shade of 0.25 If someone has pics from api and wants to share zero ammonia and zero nitrites that might be helpful, or if ya'll think my nitrites look okay, also after I think it is 0 I will go to my regular lfs or find one that knows more than yesterday! That kit especially the ammonia is confusing!  

 

Thanks again for all your help! Sorry about the misunderstandings, and how I became so defensive!

[karen nation]

I just realized that maybe if my lfs would have been open yesterday and I just took it to her, she might have known for sure. I am sure she is used to looking at zero's!  I wasnt going to listen to a damn word that other LFS said after he told me the only way to cycle was with a damsel!  He said all looked good but I dont think he knows anything and he said I was good b4 5 minutes were even up!  Just immediately added the drops... some of them he didnt shake between adding the 2nd set of drops, and didnt shake the Nitrate one long, like it says, so I dont know if the test was preformed right!  Oh well, I need to step back and take a break..clean house and take care of some other things.. This is getting old!  LOL

[Jmevox]

Wait til ammonia is yellow 0 and nitrite 0 then do a large water change and you are ready for fish. Dosing ammonia constantly when you still have nitrites is probably prolonging the cycle

[karen nation]

4 hours ago, Ratvan said:

Clown pretty much nailed it there for the API test. Needs no green in it to be 0.

 

okay, There has always been a little green.  Even the zero one on chart shows a little green like greenish yellow.  Maybe that green is supposed to represent cloudiness. Like if ya look at the nitrate one its all yellow.  The nitrite one just turns blue. So I guess my nitrites were zero.   The ammonia pic is just confusing.  

[karen nation]

6 minutes ago, Jmevox said:

Wait til ammonia is yellow 0 and nitrite 0 then do a large water change and you are ready for fish. Dosing ammonia constantly when you still have nitrites is probably prolonging the cycle

Haha. I just realized that last night!  I am glad I only did it 2 times.  I guess my ammonia was almost there just not quite.   I am telling ya one thing.   @Dirté Sanchez was right!    You cant really believe what is being written online.  You would think these people are experts and know!

[karen nation]

On 1/27/2020 at 10:13 AM, kimberbee said:

Yeah

cool, some are saying it should have no green at all.  I bet I just fell from a 0.25 to a 0.15 or something, but you would think they would make 0 on the color chart with no green, because there is still green in the 0 a yellowish green.  Not at all like the yellow they show for nitrate.  Maybe the green is supposed to represent cloudiness.   I notice thats the only one that is cloudy.  

[Clown79]

25 minutes ago, karen nation said:

cool, some are saying it should have no green at all.  I bet I just fell from a 0.25 to a 0.15 or something, but you would think they would make 0 on the color chart with no green, because there is still green in the 0 a yellowish green.  Not at all like the yellow they show for nitrate.  Maybe the green is supposed to represent cloudiness.   I notice thats the only one that is cloudy.  

It shouldn't have any green.

 

O on the chart is pure yellow. The tube should be against the white part of the chart and viewed under natural light.

 

I don't dose ammonia to cycle but I do know there is a detailed process to it.

[karen nation]

 Actually no one needs to send pics Ratvan Jmevox, Kimberbee, Clown  cleared it up and said it needs to be solid yellow, no green. I think i must have been like 0.15 or something.   I actually think maybe tomorrow because I have to remember that adding the ammonia 3 x times total, 2 times last week and late yesterday afternoon for the conversion test is strengthening my cycle. so It will probably convert it faster than it did last week when I added it and I just looked at it again (just visually) it and its only about 0.50 and it was much higher last week as well, cant remember # but darker purple.     So now I need to retract saying I am not checking for days..lol.  Actually was told that i dont need to do the conversion test, just wait for zeros. 

 

I also just realized that those articles werent necessarily wrong.  They were pulled up by my search which was dosing with amonia and since that wasnt what I was doing from the start then thats why everyone was correct saying I didnt need to dose.  I didnt put it all together.  DUH   There is some wrong or conflicting info on the web, somethings say if you are at 0 and donst dose or add a fish you will lose the bb for amoina and others saying you can not lose it.  Its crazy.   I wasnt sure if I was at zero back then even.  Its was a greenish yellow and both 0 and 0.25 are greenish on their chart.   I didn't want to lose that bb.  Some others  say you cant so I will trust you guys!  

 

I need to check my salinity. I bet its all wrong because I wasnt keeping it topped off.  I guess I should have been doing that.   Didnt realize that either until just recently.  I have been buying water so I guess I should buy one or two gallon unmixed.  I have salt and refractometer. (Plus I have reef salt so probably better) If its off I don't know how the hell I am going to figure out 1.025 or whatever the number is!  I should do a big water change right? sorry, I know I am a pain in the ass.  I just cant stay on much to check all this now, and you guys are the experts. I got to go clean my bettas tank.  It was staying so clean for 3 weeks or more with no water changes and someone unplugged my filter accidentally!  Every since then , when it got dirty.  It keeps getting dirty fast.  I have had a hard time vacuuming the gravel well, maybe thats the problem I think and its building up below the gravel more than likely.   I have 2 vacuums and none of them seem to work well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tired]

You need to top it off, and be sure you use distilled or RO water for topoffs. Not saltwater. The salt doesn't evaporate. 

 

As for your betta tank, what does "dirty" mean? An increase in algae, in visible gunk, in nitrates? What kind of filter is it? If it's a hang-on-back filter, it's possible that unplugging it suffocated the bacteria living in the filter media. How do you clean the filter? Tank size? Heater? Any live plants? (If not, I suggest adding Java moss, it requires no additional care and helps keep things a bit nitrate-cleaner. Plus, bettas like to sit in it.)

[karen nation]

1 hour ago, Clown79 said:

It shouldn't have any green.

 

O on the chart is pure yellow. The tube should be against the white part of the chart and viewed under natural light.

 

I don't dose ammonia to cycle but I do know there is a detailed process to it.

Yeah, That detailed process is what messed me up!   I just keep doing dumb things lately it seems!  LOL But I didnt realize when I googled cycling with ammonia and it said to dose at 2ppm, that was if I had been doing that all along!  No wonder everyone said I shouldnt dose seeing how close I was and adding it would slow me and shoot my nitrites.  I dint put that together until they fell and I dosed to do the 24 hour conversion test, now I realize as well that I only needed to do that test If I had been dosing all along and off course I wouldnt pass it If I wasnt!  It is concerning though that only added 3 drops and not to 2ppm.  That it made my nitrites go up.  What about the fish waste? I couldnt remember exactly what time I dosed so I think I checked it a few hours to early though.  Also guess I wasnt quite at 0 ammonia either so thats a huge factor If I wasnt. 

[Tired]

Fish waste decays and produces ammonia. If your tank can handle ammonia, it can handle a reasonable amount of fish waste.

[karen nation]

12 minutes ago, Tired said:

You need to top it off, and be sure you use distilled or RO water for topoffs. Not saltwater. The salt doesn't evaporate. 

 

As for your betta tank, what does "dirty" mean? An increase in algae, in visible gunk, in nitrates? What kind of filter is it? If it's a hang-on-back filter, it's possible that unplugging it suffocated the bacteria living in the filter media. How do you clean the filter? Tank size? Heater? Any live plants? (If not, I suggest adding Java moss, it requires no additional care and helps keep things a bit nitrate-cleaner. Plus, bettas like to sit in it.)

I am so embarrassed to say this.  We didnt quite fill it all the way up, so we were cycling that way when at hospital.  I didn't even realize it was cycling because I didn't add anything but should have known since live sand and rock I used.   I always seemed to be a gallon or so short when I did the water changes.  She dosnt fill gallons all the way either!!! My hubby just added a gallon.  I havnt been topping off, but I do know that I am supposed to keep it that way, once I get fish and all in there but being it wasnt quite full, water changes ect.. this must have my salinity messed up.  I iwill check that tomorrow and when I am ready for fish I will but some unsalted anbd always keep that on hand, anyway I guess I add salt little by little based on my readings...or I come ask you guys...lol

 

As for betta, it keeps turning cloudy and greenish.  Its a set, the filter is submersible.   I have purigan on one side and regular on the other chamber.  Its also fake plants.  Its really hard to vacuum gravel!  What if I just stir it up and try to dislodge it when cleaning and water change? + Last week I took out all the fake stuff and washed it all off, didn't do a water change but that cleared it all up.   Now cloudy again.  I read that its probably nitrates like you said.   Is there a product I can buy that will clean the gravel?  I want to put new gravel in or get it all out and rinse and clean it good if there isnt.   That's going to be kind of hard to do.  I started that tank with safe start and no bb. I had to since I took him over from someone i was fish sitting for.    He brought him here in a bowl, no heater!   It was the first cold front of the year, but he was barely swimming.  We kept warming it with a coffee cup heater, then next day got him a set up and I basically stole him from him!!  haha.  No way was I going to give him back and be mistreated!

[Tired]

You should find out what your salinity is, keep a reliable salinity measurer on hand (NOT a hydrometer), and keep it stable. It may be interfering with your cycle if the salinity is too badly off. 

 

I would take most of your gravel out, keep half an inch to a quarter inch in there. That way, the gunk should be able to be siphoned out easily enough from between it. Don't clean the gravel off, just remove most of it and vacuum any gunk- the gravel has a lot of your beneficial bacteria on it, so you don't want to be scrubbing it. The greenish is an algae bloom caused by high nutrients- harmless to the betta, but indicative of conditions that could be a problem. Get the nutrient levels down, and the green will stop. 

You may have caused a mini cycle by scrubbing all the fake stuff, your beneficial bacteria live on that as well.

You should have a filter cartridge in your filter for a freshwater tank, a thing made of a sort of mesh-like substance, or sponge. Do NOT replace it. When you do water changes, submerge it in the old, dirty water, swirl it around, gently squeeze it, and put it back in the filter. You want to gently remove the gunk without killing the bacteria that live on it. 

Add a clump of Java moss as competition for the algae, and do regular water changes. It shouldn't be a big problem to deal with. Also, go outside, find a couple of oak leaves that have fallen off the trees naturally and dried, rinse them in hot water, and put them in the tank. They'll release tannins, which will tint the water slightly tea-colored. This is good for bettas because it dims the light a little (good for them and their lack of eyelids, and they don't like bright lights), and it helps prevent many diseases. Leave the leaves in there as they decay, they'll grow copepods (tiny water bugs) on them that he can snack on. If you introduce live plants, at least- they'll bring copepods. A big wad of Java moss, again, is the best thing you can add to any betta tank beyond the basic equipment. They like to lay on it and burrow into it. 

Bettas also like to have a place right below the surface of the water, half an inch or less, that they can sprawl on. A little hammock-type situation, some people make those out of fake plant leaves for them. They like to lay down and rest from hauling those long tails around, but, since they're labyrinth fish and need to periodically gulp air, they do best when they can do it at the surface.

 

Kudos for saving him. I hope you told the person why that was bad. 

[karen nation]

2 hours ago, Tired said:

You should find out what your salinity is, keep a reliable salinity measurer on hand (NOT a hydrometer), and keep it stable. It may be interfering with your cycle if the salinity is too badly off. 

 

I would take most of your gravel out, keep half an inch to a quarter inch in there. That way, the gunk should be able to be siphoned out easily enough from between it. Don't clean the gravel off, just remove most of it and vacuum any gunk- the gravel has a lot of your beneficial bacteria on it, so you don't want to be scrubbing it. The greenish is an algae bloom caused by high nutrients- harmless to the betta, but indicative of conditions that could be a problem. Get the nutrient levels down, and the green will stop. 

You may have caused a mini cycle by scrubbing all the fake stuff, your beneficial bacteria live on that as well.

You should have a filter cartridge in your filter for a freshwater tank, a thing made of a sort of mesh-like substance, or sponge. Do NOT replace it. When you do water changes, submerge it in the old, dirty water, swirl it around, gently squeeze it, and put it back in the filter. You want to gently remove the gunk without killing the bacteria that live on it. 

Add a clump of Java moss as competition for the algae, and do regular water changes. It shouldn't be a big problem to deal with. Also, go outside, find a couple of oak leaves that have fallen off the trees naturally and dried, rinse them in hot water, and put them in the tank. They'll release tannins, which will tint the water slightly tea-colored. This is good for bettas because it dims the light a little (good for them and their lack of eyelids, and they don't like bright lights), and it helps prevent many diseases. Leave the leaves in there as they decay, they'll grow copepods (tiny water bugs) on them that he can snack on. If you introduce live plants, at least- they'll bring copepods. A big wad of Java moss, again, is the best thing you can add to any betta tank beyond the basic equipment. They like to lay on it and burrow into it. 

Bettas also like to have a place right below the surface of the water, half an inch or less, that they can sprawl on. A little hammock-type situation, some people make those out of fake plant leaves for them. They like to lay down and rest from hauling those long tails around, but, since they're labyrinth fish and need to periodically gulp air, they do best when they can do it at the surface.

 

Kudos for saving him. I hope you told the person why that was bad. 

I have a refractometer so I will check tomorrow.  I think it may finish the cycle tomorrow because that nitrite was lower than I thought after looking at the tube again and it has been sitting for hours.  I have a big day tomorrow so kind of hope it dosnt!  haha After all this waiting.   It figures.  But we shall see.  Also, that i s some good advise.  I never even bought a test kit for that fish. I know he is very hardy since he went in after the BB and a new tank.  He has never had a problem after put him in his new home, so he has been so easy and loves it.  My focus has been so much on this tank that I havnt researched much on his.       When you say nutrients, what do you mean?

 

  Is it normal for the tank to do so well in the beginning?  I know from what I have read on saltwater that is the time with the problems but It stayed so clean until I had that fistboom of algae, like 3 weeks to maybe a month and the water was crystal clear, now I have to clean it so much more often.  I always add safestart when I do water changes and I never change the filter cartridges at the same time as I do waterchange but I didnt realize I could just clean them in tank water, they recomend you replace monthly but just after the money I am sure, I dont see any reason why you couldnt just rinse like you say!     Anyway I will look into the java moss and I have plenty of leaves and oaks heer so thats no problem.  I have a hammock for him and he doesn't care for it at all.  Never seen him get on it!  He seems to rest in the bottom corner behind a  tall fake plant.   I want to make it a planted tank but that would concern me since you say they have no eyelids and am sure I would need a brighter light.  I just have the one that came with the set, a topfin 5 gallon. 

 

 I just read that nerite snails dont breed and I only have one because I was fearful of a tankful, now that I know that I am going to get more!  I barely see the other one, and I sure wish I could get a  catfish.  I have thought about trying one to keep the gravel clean, uneatten food ect, but afraid he will attack him.  I do use a turkey baster to get uneaten food out at times. 

 

I also put purigan on other side of filter and replaced the one insert with it.  Maybe I shouldnt have done that but I bought for new tank and have heard how great it is but might be the water really isnt flowing through the way it is designed.     

 

 One more question. If I am cycled or when I am Should I just get one fish, right?  I know that they say clowns are better to get  a mated pair because they might not get a long, but as babies they should I guess.  I rather buy and add one at a time but they wouldnt be a mated pair.  Whats your take on that?  

I appreciate all your help 🙂

[Tamberav]

I set up a 10g Betta tank recently using organic potting soil on the bottom with about an inch of black sand (for freshwater) on top. A piece of driftwood and some hardy live plants and 3 snails. It stays very clean. I haven't had to do anything to clean it since I set it up. I haven't even done a water change. That was the goal though as I don't want anything distracting me from my reef tank.

[danistarr]

On 1/29/2020 at 12:20 AM, karen nation said:

I have a refractometer so I will check tomorrow.  I think it may finish the cycle tomorrow because that nitrite was lower than I thought after looking at the tube again and it has been sitting for hours.  I have a big day tomorrow so kind of hope it dosnt!  haha After all this waiting.   It figures.  But we shall see.  Also, that i s some good advise.  I never even bought a test kit for that fish. I know he is very hardy since he went in after the BB and a new tank.  He has never had a problem after put him in his new home, so he has been so easy and loves it.  My focus has been so much on this tank that I havnt researched much on his.       When you say nutrients, what do you mean?

 

  Is it normal for the tank to do so well in the beginning?  I know from what I have read on saltwater that is the time with the problems but It stayed so clean until I had that fistboom of algae, like 3 weeks to maybe a month and the water was crystal clear, now I have to clean it so much more often.  I always add safestart when I do water changes and I never change the filter cartridges at the same time as I do waterchange but I didnt realize I could just clean them in tank water, they recomend you replace monthly but just after the money I am sure, I dont see any reason why you couldnt just rinse like you say!     Anyway I will look into the java moss and I have plenty of leaves and oaks heer so thats no problem.  I have a hammock for him and he doesn't care for it at all.  Never seen him get on it!  He seems to rest in the bottom corner behind a  tall fake plant.   I want to make it a planted tank but that would concern me since you say they have no eyelids and am sure I would need a brighter light.  I just have the one that came with the set, a topfin 5 gallon. 

 

 I just read that nerite snails dont breed and I only have one because I was fearful of a tankful, now that I know that I am going to get more!  I barely see the other one, and I sure wish I could get a  catfish.  I have thought about trying one to keep the gravel clean, uneatten food ect, but afraid he will attack him.  I do use a turkey baster to get uneaten food out at times. 

 

I also put purigan on other side of filter and replaced the one insert with it.  Maybe I shouldnt have done that but I bought for new tank and have heard how great it is but might be the water really isnt flowing through the way it is designed.     

 

 One more question. If I am cycled or when I am Should I just get one fish, right?  I know that they say clowns are better to get  a mated pair because they might not get a long, but as babies they should I guess.  I rather buy and add one at a time but they wouldnt be a mated pair.  Whats your take on that?  

I appreciate all your help 🙂

Hello! So I am a complete newbie when it comes to the salty side of things, but have over 12 years experience in the freshwater side. Bettas are a personal favorite of mine! I fall for animals who are mistreated, and bettas are one of the unfortunate ones who are lucky to receive the care that people provide 99% of other fish. Thank you for rescuing this fish, and improving his quality of life significantly!

 

It is completely normal for a tank to do well for a few weeks, then have algae and or diatoms later. New tanks go through stages of algae and diatoms, even in the freshwater world normally. At least, that has always been my experience with setting up new aquariums. I have never experienced cloudy water though (except after starting a new tank and adding a new substrate, or replanting plants and messing with the substrate). Do you by chance have a freshwater API master test kit? I would be curious to know what your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels are (and for funsies, pH). I do think you can use the saltwater API kit for freshwater (except pH), but the chart is different? So you have to look up the freshwater chart online I believe. 

 

Freshwater tanks have to cycle just like saltwater tanks, as I'm sure you know. I've never used any sort of bottle bacteria (or tetra safestart, nothing bottled but Prime for dechlor), and while I try to avoid fish-in cycling as much as possible, I've ended up doing it for betta tanks due to finding and rescuing bettas on craigslist. A fish-in cycle (for freshwater, I would NOT do this for saltwater, as 50% water changes in saltwater is not the norm as it can mess with parameters. In freshwater, LARGE water changes are good, in saltwater, not so much) does not have to be cruel or inhumane IF you follow the basic steps listed here https://www.bettafish.com/101-betta-fish-bowls-habitats-accessories/555434-cycling-two-sentence-tutorial.html

 

(I change the water if it approaches 0.25ppm, because I prefer that. I also have the tank planted at least 1/2 way full, so moderately planted with fast growing plants)

 

The recommended replacing cartridges monthly is a complete and total scam to get you to buy more filter cartridges. If your cartridge has charcoal, the charcoal has to be replaced monthly I believe it is (haven't used charcoal in a long time, but I believe it can leech things back into the water if you use it for too long). You just have to rinse your filter media in DIRTY tank water (take bucket of dirty tank water, plop filter media in, swish it gently, plop back in filter), otherwise you will risk killing off your bb. 

 

Taking out decor and cleaning it with clean tap water will remove the bb that has established on it. If it gets really gross, cleaning it in dirty tank water is your best bet.

 

If you don't want to collect wild leaves (worried about pesticides, like myself) this is an amazing little kit, my betta sleeps on it ALL THE TIME! It is his favorite! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R45N3H6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I boiled the leaf for 5 minutes and then put in the tank, so I didn't follow the directions perfectly. I wanted it to leach tannins, and have a 20 gallon. 

 

How thick is your substrate? You only need 1.5-2" deep if you have plants, any deeper than that is dangerous. If you don't plan on having any plants (or at least, ones that have to be planted in the substrate), 1/2" or so is perfectly adequate. 

 

Plants wise, there are TONS of plants that need minimal care/lighting and will do fine. My personal favorite, PETCO tube plants! Best value, always healthy, snail and disease free. I have never had bad luck with a single tube plant.

 

For a tank with low light, I highly recommend java fern (available as a tube plant, scientific name is Microsorum pteropus) wisteria (technically is one that you plant, but it is happy floating too. Scientific name is ,Hygrophila difformis. You want one that has the spikey leaves. If the leaves are rounded and full, it was grown out of water, so the leaves will melt while new underwater leaves grow, which sucks for awhile ) and anubias. These all can be found as PETCO tube plants (go to where the betta cups are, typically they are somewhere around there)

 

My bettas have loved to sit in floating wisteria, it was their favorite. Once I planted it in the substrate and it grew to the surface, they would hang out in there all the time.

 

Java fern and anubias can NOT be planted in substrate, or at least, not their rhizomes (the thick part near their roots). You can wedge them between rocks, driftwood, or let them free float. 

 

For more low light, non-PETCO tube plants, I recommend java moss (unless they carry this as a container plant, which is a possibility) like the poster above (this stuff outcompetes algae awesomely! No algae outbreaks since adding this to my new tank!, and honestly, amazon sword plants. Amazon sword plants need a root fertilizer (I use seachem root tabs), and while growth will be slower in low light, I've always found amazon swords to be awesome and pretty bullet proof. You will want 2" substrate for these guys. 

 

Another good one are cryptocorynes or "crypts". These plants will experience a "melt" where basically all their leaves fall off after being replanted. Completely normal, new ones will grow back. Just don't buy an expensive one that has tons of leaves expecting that they will stay. They have to be planted in substrate, and benefit from root tabs as well. 

 

In a 5 gallon, I would not add anymore nerites (they poop a lot for a snail, and will add to your bioload in a 5 gallon significantly), and it is too small for any catfish. If you get some plants and want to add snails, get a few ramshorns! They come in all the colors of the rainbow, and grow to be a little smaller than a dime. 

 

The stock lighting should be okay for the plants listed above. You might not get amazing growth, but they should do fine.

 

One thing if you want to get a marimo moss ball, do know that they are found in COLD water, and therefore do poorly long term in the hot water that bettas like. People will put them in the fridge to help them recover. 

 

For a 5 gallon betta tank, weekly 50% water changes while you are still getting things figured out is what I would recommend. If you get a load of live plants and the tank is cycled, then weekly 25-30% should be good as long as you don't overfeed. The poster above set their tank up "Walstad" method, which has different care requirements. 

 

For the API test kit, I like to make a control using tap water (which would be pure RODI water for salty) for ammonia, so I can see if it is the same shade of yellow. 0ppm (parts per million) should be YELLOW with no green at all. Your most recent one looked far closer to .50ppm than 0ppm. It helps with my sanity. 

 

For the refractometer, if you do not have it calibrated (using calibration fluid is the most common, you can buy it separately), you can get a false reading. 

 

Once your saltwater tank is 100% cycled, starting with 2 baby (I'm assuming ocellaris) clownfish should be okay. Just monitor the water after to be safe.

 

Typically, it seems like most experienced salty keepers wait at least another few months before adding any more fish. Clowns can be aggressive as they age, so adding two fish that are more peaceful and shy in a 10 gallon is not recommended. Even if they are all so tiny where it seems like it should be fine, the stocking amounts are far more strict for saltwater than fresh. 

 

In a freshwater tank, you could have, say 8 male guppies or 5 male platies in a 10 gallon easily with good filtration. In the saltwater world, 3 NANO fish is the absolute recommended max for a 10 gallon (think yellow clown goby size, fish that stay close to 1" as an adult), 1 or 2 fish is generally what people go with. Sure, there are people who have a yellow tail damsel, a clownfish, a yellow watchman goby, and maybe some sort of other fish in a 10 gallon, but that isn't what is recommended. 

 

On that note, thank you for not using a yellow tail damsel to cycle your tank. Poor fish are taken from the ocean, just to be destined to suffer through ammonia and nitrite poisoning because that is what seems to be the norm. Or put in a nano tank, and have people shocked when they become aggressive, so they are brought back to the store and the whole thing repeats. Okay, end rant.

 

Even if you plan to upgrade in the future, it makes more sense to just wait until your 45 gallon is set  up and cycled (not sure if you plan on moving the live rock and everything over to the new tank), before adding any more fish. Also, you would want to add the most peaceful fish first, and the more aggressive (compared to a yellow watchman goby or clown goby, clowns are considered aggressive) fish last. 

 

Plus, you sound like a very busy woman with a lot going on! While you may have the best of intentions of setting up a larger tank in the future, life happens. Even if you have the tank already,  plans can change. It is safer to stock for the tank you have now, versus what you may have in the future. If you currently had the 45 gallon set up and cycling, I would still say wait, because a pair of clowns with 1-2 other fish in a 10 gallon (even if juveniles) is overstocked and a bad idea overall. 

 

Just went back over your post, what do you feed your betta, how much, and how often? You should not have any rotting or extra food after feeding. I feed my betta his pellets one by one, or his frozen mysis shrimp one by one. There is never any uneaten food. If a pellet falls to the bottom without him noticing, I suck it back up and remove it instantly from the tank. 

 

Also wanted to add, I have a couple other ...hobbies, and one thing that comes up in another one is a type of frenzy. Everything is so new and exciting, you want to experience it all and want it NOW and want ALL THE THINGS. It results in impulsivity and bad decisions, and lots of stress. Reefing is certainly an exciting hobby, I mean after all, you are creating your little own piece of the ocean!

 

Like you, I am enamored by the ocean, fish, and aquatic life. I have also spent hours watching awesome youtube videos and looking up on liveaquaria about different fish. I don't think there is anything wrong with this, just makes sure you take the time to take each step slow.  (I know you have mentioned several times that you have not touched it for over a month, which is displaying patience. That is true, but you also started with buying $200 or so worth of corals, which is clearly not patient. I think that is why you are getting a bunch of SLOW DOWN posts.

 

There is no harm in imaginingg future set ups or asking about future stock compatibility (aqadvisor.com is a good starting point for stocking). Even though it will be delayed gratification, I am not going to add anything living to my reef tank once it is set up and cycled until it goes through the "ugly" stage, as recommended on reef2reef in a sticky I think it was. 

 

To add on to something, it wasn't that you didn't introduce yourself, spent months stocking people, nor spent time asking experienced reefers about their setups that was the problem. Sure, at least posting in the intro part is nice, but that certainly isn't a requirement. It does help people understanding where you are coming from, which would have generated more empathy for you and understanding then you initially got I imagine.

 

What the main problem was the WALLS of text (I'm sure you can agree, it is exhausting to read), that were quite repetitive and incoherent for parts of it (which, is understandable, if you are sleep deprived, stressed, and juggling a sick child and a ton of other things), and the fact that anytime any advice was given (by experienced reefers), that you deferred to what you read online, youtube, or from your local fish store (which are not reliable sources, as explained).

 

Also the fact that you talked about doing hours and hours of research, but did not know that buying corals before your tank is even cycled was a horrible idea (especially since your tank is only 10 gallons, each coral has its own requirements, you got corals that are harder than the ones recommended for beginners to care for, corals engage in chemical warfare so will be competing for space, and that most people don't add corals for at least a few months after fish- and it is something easy like a soft coral, such as a discosoma mushroom or zoas- caution paly toxins!). Even I was like, how has she done so much research, but bought all these living things still? Not trying to kick you when you are down though. 🙂

 

Then, the post where talked about the bad advice, while you meant it directed at the store/other online sources, it read like it was directed at nano reef posters. On top of the post about how you were going to help out in newbie forum, as that concerned us greatly (and... the 2020 post).  Perhaps also your claim that people were offended by your "old school" remarks, when that is certainly not the case. That is when the dog poop hit the fan I feel.

 

People also felt like anytime they gave advice, rather than doing what most of us newbies say or do (oh wow, I was told something else before. I am glad to  know that wasn't true. Thank you for informing me. I will do it like this, will that be okay? or Oh gosh, I really screwed up. Here is I plan to fix it, following your advice) you argued back most of the time, but not in a way that was conducive to a discussion. 

 

I do feel that the name calling, memes, and other things were unnecessary. I am shocked that this thread wasn't shut down or warned for flaming honestly. I do think they were made because people felt like you were not listening to what they were saying, which is very frustrating; saying the same thing over and over, but having it not get through. I think your sleep deprivation resulted in manic sounding posts, which resulted in people just dropping more gasoline on the fire. (I am not saying I think it justified the memes or name calling though)

 

I also think that there are more people on here who have a more "call it like they see it," mindset, and are more focused on facts than worrying about hurt feelings. Just different personality types than yourself, I assume. Then there are few people like me, who felt sad that you went on a chat forum where people made you feel so bad that you cried. You clearly are a caring person, you just made a lot of mistakes. 

 

I do not want my post to come across as harsh or mean, just trying to shed some light on what I saw happening and why I thought it happened, for the future. 

 

The people on here really do want to help newbies like us have successful reefs!

 

EDIT: Just had an epiphany! The cloudy water is probably directly related to the rotting food in the bottom of his tank. I would not be surprised if there is an ammonia spike in the tank now from it. 

 

I do agree that there are a TON of differing opinions out there, and TONS of misinformation, which makes for a LOT of confusion. It is really overwhelming, so at least you are on a forum, asking questions, trying to fix your mistakes, and trying to learn now. 

 

Hopefully this helps. 🙂

 

I also did not mean to derail your post into the freshwater world, but figured since it was brought up, I might as well comment on the one thing I do know some about. 

 

Also, other NR's, please correct me if any of my saltwater information is wrong!

 

Another thing I just thought about, you have not mentioned once about quarantine. Are you planning on quarantining your fish or future corals? I'll be honest, I don't QT my freshwater fish, nor do I plan to future saltwater fish, BUT ONLY because I get/plan to get all my fish/critters from local people who have healthy fish with no new additions for several months at least, only keep a single fish/pair of fish in my display tanks, and I can't set up another 10 gallon in my apartment due to space. I aso watch my water quality like a hawk (in the freshwater world, I feel that most problems result from poor water quality and stress), and do everything to reduce stress (leave lights off first few days, have lots of hiding areas, stock minimally, try to mimic where the fish lives in nature)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[karen nation]

Thanks you so much for taking a great deal of time to write this and help a newbie fresh and saltwater fish owner!  I have my clown now!  Yay!    I will post about that later after I respond to you , and i even have pics of the lil cutie.  I would love to turn my betta into a planted tank!  It was so rushed at the time I adopted him that I didnt have the time to even consider that.  I had to get him into a warm environment and was so happy to give him swimming room, heat and stimulation! I have since thought of making it into a planted and the plants I love are anuba and Java fern.  One other spindle long type, cant think of name.  Also love to attach to a nice piece of driftwood! 

 

I guess it is just the norm to do water changes more often.  I know I read that but it was staying so clean and sparkly the first 3 weeks or so that I didnt change it.  Then all of a sudden it got cloudy and now I have to do them often like I had read to do.  Maybe it happened so quickly this last time was cleaning the decorations so much and also changing out.  Oh I forgot to mention I took Santa out, and I changed a  few things around because I  decorated it for xmas.  My hubby also bought me a big anchor to put in because they all know how fish crazy I have become lol so I changed out santa and put the anchor in and cleaned the other remaining plants but the large one.   I do always add a little safestart when I do water changes, and he did so well in the beginning with that and having no bb besides that since I rescued him!  To bad there arent more people like you, this person was a friend of my daughters that had him in such deplorable living conditions!  There was a young girl buying a betta at petco the other day with a bowl and the cashier saying it was fine!  I had to give my two cents and advised her that they needed at least a 5 gallon and he gave me a dirty look like WTF.  People get confused when they see them in a bowl and just make impulse buys, but you would think petco employees would want  (if nothing more)  to sell bigger tanks being that equals more money for them.

 

I was hoping not to mention what happened to me in here but there is so much more than what people are seeing on this post. Since you brought it up I need to explain.   I wont mention names and I think we have mended things.  I know you said the memes and name calling was uncalled for, But you have no idea how bad it got! They were really going at me and directing people to my post.  IT got very nasty, vulgar and disgusting like saying to ride his..well You get what I am saying, many many more vulgar remarks not to mention all in that room were saying stuff like that. I became very frustrated and angry, basically crying like a baby!   I was telling my hubby , things like "how did this backfire on me"? I came in here to make friends and now I am hated. I didn't realize at the time I was saying things back to them that they were all friends and connected and all this talk was spreading about me in that chat!  After the big encounter I stayed out of that room (didnt want to hear the hurtful things)  and then I got tagged and I went in and it was still going on days later.  I scrolled back and there were days of it and were twisting my words and making lies about what I had said. They had this joke about me wanting to put a puffer in a ten gallon when that wasn't the fact, I merely said I loved them and wish I had room for one. I was also very mad at this one person because she said I was cycling with a fish and I wasnt so I fell this is what started it all, so I did blast him for telling lies and starting it all, the puffer one and everything! Thats also why i got defensive with all the people leaving rude comments on my page, was they were all connected! I saw most of them in that chat and I get notifications of them entering now for some reason, wish I could disable that! 

 

I wanted to put his all on my post to let people understand my frustration and anger but I dint want to be accused of not letting it go.  You did bring it up, so I'm explaining.  You dint bring it up in a nasty way at all and I see that you are trying to be helpful!  Its all water under the bridge( I hope) I havnt been back to see if they accepted my apology  because I did say some mean things in retribution.  I hope this post dosnt make them mad at me again.  I can see this is a very close community and I hope to be a part of it all and that we can start a clean slate!  I probably need to apologize to the person I called a mean drunk as well, but I could have swore he said he had been drinking all day in the chat and I felt that that was the reason for the memes and the name calling.  I could have had them all in big trouble like you said surprised this wasnt flagged, I did report one at the very beginning but I let the rest go because at the end we left in somewhat a nice way.  I did say goodnight and was laughing at their crazy things they were saying, (i had their sex confused so they were making a lot of nasty comments like can I borrow ur dildo to try out my new vavajay" lol) that why I was so surprised when I went back after the tag and days later the puffer stuff was twisted and days and days of bashing me in there, by sooo many people.  

 

I sure hope this dosnt get all this going again.  Thats why i am leaving names out! I just want to be friends and man, did I do some stupid stuff, and since you mention my research and staying up all night.  I was for weeks still a'm  but it was about what gear to get and fish and corals and all.  Pages of notebooks I filled writing all I learned as well, so that was time consuming. Lot of research, youtubes on 10 gallons no skimmer, How to start a coral reef ect..I think I watched everyone.  and also looking at used aquariums, emails to people, checking FB marketplace, craigslist , ect, ect you tubes on certain aquariums and trying to figure out what used one to get (ended up buying a new el cheapo), but good gear. My research wasnt caring for corals so I had no idea what It would take.  I was an idiot!  I admit.  A few day days s prior to the live sale, with 5 buck corals I did a crash course up all night, on beginner corals.   Watched tons of youtubes on them..ect..so this was my research.  It made it seem not so hard for softies, certain lps.  Not so many at a time though and being a newbie, that was more than dumb but idiotic  I thought I was just going to add biospira and be cycled and add corals the way things went with my betta that was so easy.  Not to mention the youtubes I saw of people doing it. But then came hospital ect..ect! If only I knew then what I know now!  I mean just buying 12 corals at once and the acclimation, even If I had an established tank, would be nuts!  What had me so unsure was the 1,000 torch I supposedly won!  Then after being at the hospital and losing 2 important weeks that I could have been searching for a LFS to keep (their website says only hold corals for 2 weeks) Of course I didnt see this until the craziness settled down and my son was well or doing better and released.  I was waiting to see a pic of this 1,000.00 torch of the gods!  They finally posted a pic the other day!  Then I was like what kind of an idiot requests a sale to be cancelled after winning a 1,000.00 torch!  Lucky  they never responded to it!  I am so scared to call that I will get tongue tied so I sent another one explaining my sons illness and even making up some tales as to why i didnt come forward and claim!  I hope so bad I can get it!  My lfs will hold(she wants a piece of that torch) lol.  I will pick up a few at a time from her.  Not for a while though! If I can get them at all!  They will probably just refund my money!  I want to slap my self upside my skull...LOL I would rather have the fun of buying little by little with my family, but I want that torch!  lol I kind of figured people bought a lot of corals at  a time being so many places change 45.00 shipping, one of the reasons why i felt it wouldnt be so hard!  Boy am I wrong, maybe corals arent so easy to come by outside of FL, that people pay that crazy shipping charge and get just a few!

 

This response is more than likely going to make me sound defensive and I am not any longer.  I understand all the warnings and, people saying take it slow!  I get that now.  I was an emotional wreck for a while and sleep deprived as well.  That I cant even remember if I addressed all this in the post, I left introducing myself and all.  I am sorry to repeat myself, in case I am! (PLus I am not sure what all you know and have read) They were long as this one is, but Its just to you, not anyone else but it will probably show on my thread,  which is a shame, maybe I should have just pm you to explain why I behaved like I did!  I probably should delete everything and start fresh, a new name and all, because I realize I look like an idiot and it all started over the first stupid move..the live sale! I know you said I sounded incoherent... during some of my posts I was sick with the flu as well!

 

When everyone started saying not to add ammonia I did get defensive and explained I kept pulling it up to add it.  Its crazy, but maybe it was the way i searched it, and If I had been cycling with ammonia all along! I had everyone mad and saying I did the wrong thing and didn't listen so thats why i kept mentioning the youtube and google searches, not to demean their advise. I have eaten my words and shoved my foot in my mouth and left an apology for all.  I sure hope they take it, there have been so many nice and helpful people here,  it amazes me even after the explosion there were many still talking to me.  It also seems as If the one person was being nice on my post but tagging me and not being nice in that chatroom so it made me look like the bad guy!  No one knew the story and  I couldn't explain, because people were saying I shouldn't have answered old comments because I wasnt letting it go, but they were unaddressed, and I didnt see the comments until after I wrote the long one introducing my self and all. I also didnt realize my comments back to them would attach to the end of this thread, still learning this forum and how it works! 

 

I dont regret adding ammonia though!  I am sure I have a strong cycle because of it! I think i was cycled the day I left the last pic! I didnt give it 24s to convert (long story)  and besides It wasnt necessary anyway and only if I had been dosing all along, Expecting it to covert more ammonia that a tiny fish would put out! !  My lfs verified my ammonia and everything was cycled.  I even put my foot in my mouth saying that the internet had it wrong!  It was probably suppose to have nitrates at the time that i tested it being 24 hours wasnt up!  I was just planning on redoing the test, but others said It wasnt necessary. Brilliant idea of urs to test rodi!  I never thought of that, I happened to have some rodi salted and just tested it, and same exact color as I am getting now and the color I posted last!  So there is a weee little bit of green, that I see.  Ever so faint. I think the pic lighting makes it more obvious.  Same color on the color chart for 0. But funny how so many people dont see that tinge of green.  Maybe I notice it since I have a room painted that color and its gold with a hint of green. Either that or I am color blind..lol

 

Thanks for letting me know about using it on fresh. I  didnt want to mention I watched a youtube...lol After being called mrs youtube..haha But I id want to see If I could see a positive to compare with mine, so someone left a youtube saying you could. use the reef for fresh and fresh for reef. I Have tried it yet being the water has been changed and I am sure the readings will be 0 now, but I will if water starts to get cloudy again. 

 

Thanks you for the helpful advice and all the advise for my betta.  Thats the exact hammock mine has that he wont use 😞  I just scrolled up and someone else said they have a new betta and have never changed the water!  I wonder if its just because his is new as well.   He said he had 3 snail so maybe I will get the hamshorn, but I wonder if they breed in a tank.  Thats a scarry thought!

 

I am not sure when I will add another clown, I just have one but I probably will very soon.  I just wanted to make sure with that iffy yellowish green and praying she was right about being cycled, and I think my ammonia was cycled for a while as well.  It was the nitrates that was the problem.  When ever I added ammonia, next day it would be back to that same yellowish with slight green.  I know my lfs said I should get two and now you said I should have as well.  I have read best to get a mated pair but wasnt sure if they meant after a newly cycled tank.  I know that as babys they will more than likely become a mated pair if I get one soon.  Also, she may still have one of the fish he was with in the tank at the store.  I didnt want to add a yellow clown goby, or tailspot first, even though they are considered more peaceful, beause clown is considered hardy so thought it would best to start with them and several LFS agreed wit h that and you are right about not trusting lots of them, but when you go to a owner operated you can usually trust they know the right thing! I will more than likely wait as you suggested to get the other two but I have seen lots of 10 gallons with 3, actually all that I have seen, either 2 and a cleaner shrimp or 2 and another small fish.  I haven'tt seen 4 but maybe they didnt have a tank in their garage, but you are right, plans could change...who knows the future!

 

One thing more I want to add is I am so scared I am going to be judged on when I add my fish, corals or anything now.  More so that the average newbie because of all this! Hate to mention youtube but I saw many 10 gallons and people adding  corals soon after cycling and they did fine!  Some were immediately after biospira then fish even that soon!  So I may get a few, but if I do they will be softies!  It makes it hard not to because we go to coral and fish shops on Sundays usually. I was house bound when I got into this hobby and planning stages and I didnt realize there were so many, but nowhere could I get the deals I got on that live sale! I did also read some people say they didnt get the so called UGLY phase so hopefully I wont but i know its a possibility.  Do you have yours cycled yet and up and running?  If so have you encountered any problems yet? 

 

 I have not even turned lights on yet and I may not untill I get corals.  I keep the kitchen light on so fish can see a little but I know light is bad for algae growth so thats why i dont have it attached yet.  Trying to decide which to keep as well.  

 

Sorry this is so long and so much to read and also thanks again for all your help!

 

 

[karen nation]

I got my lil Fishy and my tank was cycled when I had it checked!  I have had him for a few days and he seems to like his new home!   Named him something very unusual "Nemo"  LOL  That may not stick since my daughter hates it!  LOL  He is doing very well and my water parameters have been perfect!  I will probably give it a week then get another clown to join him!

 

Thanks everyone for putting up with me and this crazy long thread, sorry it was so long and my crazy long posts!  I will try to keep any further questions much shorter and hopefully wont go through the ugly stage.  I havnt hooked up lights yet since I know that promotes algae growth, but probably will soon.  I feel bad that he cant see much but I always have kitchen light on at night!

 

Oh,Danistarr had some great advice.  He suggested I check the test with rodi salted or fresh because supposedly they are universal test kits even though they sell one for each!  I happened to just pickup some rodi salted and tested it and same color yellow with slight hint of green.  I know everyone says its solid yellow, but somehow I am seeing that teeny bit of green!  Unless I am color blind and dont know it...lol Makes me wonder how long my ammonia was cycled!  Nitrites were always purple until the end though! I also think maybe the lighting made it appear much greener in pics, It was definitely yellow with slight tint of green and matched the color chart pic perfectly for zero ammonia!