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karen nation

Need fast cycle or instant even better

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karen nation

I am a newbie in this hobby and got super stoked watching you tubes ect!  I mean countless hours of research on products, lights, filters ect.  Today we added water which first trip to pick up was told it was fish ready and from their aquariums, second trip was told no its only pre salted rodi!  All my research has me very confused and not sure what to do to get  a fast cycle.

 

  I have caribe sea live sand,( preferred natures ocean but they sent only 8 lbs and huge grain size)!  My rock is dry but infused with pinkish spores all on it.  Almost live looking when wet.  Very pink.  There are so many methods.  The lfs actually told me to buy a cheap flusher fish I believed he called it, would never do that even though my friend said thats what he always did.  If I add biospiria and then check I am not even sure what it should read. I have never tested water before and there is so much to learn.  I read  a post saying after bio spira you should see no nitrates and ammonia, and that means its ready for fish. I have read shrimp method and ammonia.  Fish food even.  Knowing what I have begun with what should I do to speed up this process?  I have corals coming but hopefully I can cancel or delay shipment.  They are closed through Jan 2nd. 

 

I have a 10 gallon which I know probably isnt smart being a newbie but wanted to give corals a chance to grow before upgrading to a larger setup.. I plan on weekly water changes and thorough vacuming.  also would I need to be doing water changes after cycle and adding 1 fish.  Would it be safe to add a baby clownfish after biospira alone being my rock is infused and live sand.  My plans are a cleaner shrimp and 2 clownfish later down the road and some snails.  Thanks for any help!  Totally confused!

 

  I am editing this post because although I said fast cycle.  I dont mean overnight ,  I did buy sand that was supposed to speed up.  I want o do this right but it would be great if there is such a thing as speeding up the process so that it would take 3 weeks or something instead of 3 months  I wish we had not of filed last night!  I have the flu, my son was taken to hospital last night with pneumonia and the flu.  crazy timing.  He is often sick.  down syndrome and aspirates.  My hubby is with him now and hopefully in a day or two I can get better to be with him.  I dont fill like messing with it now and the research being sick and all but we have started it so dont want it to go to waste.  I guess its started cycling but needs the ammonia source to keep going or it will die off ?.  Not sure the method though, shrimp, ammonia or what and even then do know how to do the readings.  While I was buying supplies I dint realize how overwhelming it was to get things going LOL. especially when you have the flu!  I was literally sick when I left this post, wish I could put it on the back burner! Thanks the lord my son is improving.  He was on antibiotics at home but wasnt getting better, because he had the flu! One day in hospital and he is on the mend 🙂

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mcarroll

First (and only) step:  Slow down and forget about fast cycling.  Bio Spira is the product you want (follow the label directions), but starting a reef in a hurry is just asking for trouble IMO.   

 

Especially if this is your first tank, read about how to start a tank the slow way and DO THAT.

 

Here's a good place to start: The Soft Cycle thread

 

But if you don't already have a book, I'd highly suggest one or more before you really get things rolling.

 

Check out this thread for suggestions:

Chime in with your reef-oriented reading list! 

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Jmevox
2 hours ago, mcarroll said:

First (and only) step:  Slow down and forget about fast cycling.  Bio Spira is the product you want (follow the label directions), but starting a reef in a hurry is just asking for trouble IMO.   

 

Especially if this is your first tank, read about how to start a tank the slow way and DO THAT.

 

Here's a good place to start: The Soft Cycle thread

 

But if you don't already have a book, I'd highly suggest one or more before you really get things rolling.

 

Check out this thread for suggestions:

Chime in with your reef-oriented reading list

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Jmevox

You ignored good advice in all of the other threads so not sure what to tell you. Do whatever you want. The $200 coral will look beautiful in your tank for a few days before it all dies

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Clown79

There is no such thing as instant or rushed cycling. 

 

The ONLY way to AVOID a cycle is using established liverock from an existing tank when you set up your tank.

Sand and water doesn't matter to a cycle.

 

Unfortunately bacteria take time to develop. 

 

This hobby requires diligent research, patience, and going slow.

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mitten_reef

There is no shortcut to a successful reef tank. 
here’s a write up done by a fellow beginner not too long ago  


YouTube is not a place to do your research when you want a good start - pick only ONE source to follow like BRS-TV or something similar would be an exception.   

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Tamberav
5 hours ago, karen nation said:

I am a newbie in this hobby and got super stoked watching you tubes ect!  I mean countless hours of research on products, lights, filters ect.  Today we added water which first trip to pick up was told it was fish ready and from their aquariums, second trip was told no its only pre salted rodi!  All my research has me very confused and not sure what to do to get  a fast cycle.

 

  I have caribe sea live sand,( preferred natures ocean but they sent only 8 lbs and huge grain size)!  My rock is dry but infused with pinkish spores all on it.  Almost live looking when wet.  Very pink.  There are so many methods.  The lfs actually told me to buy a cheap flusher fish I believed he called it, would never do that even though my friend said thats what he always did.  If I add biospiria and then check I am not even sure what it should read. I have never tested water before and there is so much to learn.  I read  a post saying after bio spira you should see no nitrates and ammonia, and that means its ready for fish. I have read shrimp method and ammonia.  Fish food even.  Knowing what I have begun with what should I do to speed up this process?  I have corals coming but hopefully I can cancel or delay shipment.  They are closed through Jan 2nd. 

 

I have a 10 gallon which I know probably isnt smart being a newbie but wanted to give corals a chance to grow before upgrading to a larger setup.. I plan on weekly water changes and thorough vacuming.  also would I need to be doing water changes after cycle and adding 1 fish.  Would it be safe to add a baby clownfish after biospira alone being my rock is infused and live sand.  My plans are a cleaner shrimp and 2 clownfish later down the road and some snails.  Thanks for any help!  Totally confused!

Live sand isn't very live and infused rock still takes a long time to cycle. It's dry rock with a little bacteria on it.

 

Adding biospira will help but a tank is not ready for a fish after biospira. You are just seeding the tank with bacteria to jump start the process not cycling it instantly no matter what that bottle tells you.

 

Rushing a reef tank isn't just about the cycle. A tank takes 1-2 years to actually fully stabalize. This is why we go slow. Rushing can lead to many problems along the road such as bacterial blooms...dino....unwanted algae...etc.

 

Your tank is going to hit what people call the ugly stage after the cycle and your corals will be subject to dealing with whatever may come with that and it's far from ideal.

 

The only way to skip a cycle is to buy live rock from another reefer in an ESTABLISHED tank. One with already thriving corals that is a few years old. (Not dirty live rock in a dark tank devoid of corals and life that many LFS carry).

 

 

Anyways... I would assume the vender can delay the corals a week or two. Most are willing and Unique Corals I believe has good customer service. I would get that bottle of biospira and get started, don't add a fish though. No reason to risk its life. I just do a pinch of fish food but plenty use dose pure ammonia. 

 

A rushed job is never ideal but we will work with what we can. My hospital tank I cycled in a week or such with biospira. Again though, your tank, even cycled, will have to deal with all the ugly phase with lots of corals in it, it is far from ideal. 

 

 

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Joboo

I would cancel the coral shipment. Not sure Carib Live sand is enough to speed up the cycle. 

 

Here is the plan I usually follow when starting up a tank.

1) Get Ammonia and Nitrite (NOT Nitrates) test kits. Test regularly during the cycle. You'll see an ammonia Spike, then a Nitrite spike. Once both are zero then your tank is cycled. If after 30 days you never see a spike then its likely your tank was already cycled. 

2) Perform a large water change. Maybe 30-40 percent.

3) Add clean up crew(Snails, Crabs, etc) and wait few days. 

4) Add fish. Clown would be fine.

5) after another few weeks add some corals.

 

Like others have said. Patience is key to success in this hobby!

 

 

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Seadragon

You only have 2 good options left:


this:

12 hours ago, karen nation said:

hopefully I can cancel or delay shipment

 

Or this:

 

8 hours ago, Clown79 said:

The ONLY way to AVOID a cycle is using established liverock from an existing tank when you set up your tank.

 

I’m assuming you cannot cancel without losing your money otherwise you would’ve done that already.

 

The only other option is to pay your LFS or a fellow reefer to hold your new corals until your tank is ready.

 

Slow and steady wins the race... this applies to life as well.

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banasophia

 

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banasophia

Quick cycling using effective beneficial bacteria products has worked fine for me... but one issue when you are a new hobbyist is that you are learning a lot in the first few weeks so you don’t want to rush too fast and make mistakes that can lead to the preventable loss of fish or corals. 
 

I personally would add BioSpira along with one or two other products with beneficial bacteria (I use Dr Tim’s and Nutri-Seawater), so if one product was damaged by exposure to temperature extremes in shipping you will have a backup. You can add those things but don’t add your fish right away even though the bottle says you can because you want to make sure all your equipment is working properly such as your heater and thermometer, pump, lights, no leaks. 
 

Is your rock CaribSea Liferock?

 

Oh, I also recommend the addition of a media bag or two of matrix media, I keep some in the back chambers of my tanks, to provide additional porous surface area for the beneficial bacteria to populate/grow. 

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N/A
7 hours ago, Tamberav said:

The only way to skip a cycle is to buy live rock from another reefer in an ESTABLISHED tank. One with already thriving corals that is a few years old. (Not dirty live rock in a dark tank devoid of corals and life that many LFS carry).

 

Not trying to call you out or any thing but what makes you say this?

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Tamberav
1 hour ago, N/A said:

Not trying to call you out or any thing but what makes you say this?

Because that is where the bacteria live and the rock is healthy and used to reef life. Buying live rock from a bin will likely still soft cycle as they tend to be dirty, devoid of proper flow and light. Sometimes that rock is newly shipped with lots of die off. I wouldn't trust a beginner to be able to decipher what is good live rock and what isn't so lets say for safety's sake... it's best not to rely on live rock from a bin to support fish or coral instantly.

 

Bottled bacteria still needs to establish themselves on the rock. I don't see how you can dump it in and say it is cycled "instantly". I dumped in an entire bottle of biospira into a hospital tank and it took about a week to where it could support the heavy feeding and constant pooping of fish. That is still really fast compared to the old methods and is impressive. 

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Joboo

I agree with Tamberav,

 

if you had purchased live rock that was in a well established aquarium then cycling would have been minimal to none. Even then I typically wait a week to start stocking.

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Reefkid88

Why do people always want to rush the most important part of setting up a tank ?! I cannot understand this for the life of me...

 

 BE PATIENT... let the beneficial bacteria develop and establish and do its job. So you are tell me in all this time of doing your "research" nobody made it a point to say hey,no need to cycle lets have coral in the tank a week into setting it up ? I don't think so. Majority of products,may work but not efficiently. Drop a piece of shrimp in there,wait 3 weeks,test,water change,wait a day,test. 

 

 When your params are within acceptable ranges add a clean up crew or add a fish,let the bacteria stabilize with the bio load,add coral. I don't think that is too painstaking at all. 

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Joboo

One more thing. You mentioned your rock

is “Dry”. Can you elaborate on this? Where did you buy it from, how long was it left out of an established tank, etc. 

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Joboo
4 minutes ago, Reefkid88 said:

Why do people always want to rush the most important part of setting up a tank ?! I cannot understand this for the life of me...

 

 BE PATIENT... let the beneficial bacteria develop and establish and do its job. So you are tell me in all this time of doing your "research" nobody made it a point to say hey,no need to cycle lets have coral in the tank a week into setting it up ? I don't think so. Majority of products,may work but not efficiently. Drop a piece of shrimp in there,wait 3 weeks,test,water change,wait a day,test. 

 

 When your params are within acceptable ranges add a clean up crew or add a fish,let the bacteria stabilize with the bio load,add coral. I don't think that is too painstaking at all. 

Having patience is easier said than done some times. I know back when I first started in this hobby 30 years ago I found it VERY hard to wait and of course learned the hard way. And that was just freshwater!! I can only imagine if reef keeping was more main stream back then how much more difficult waiting to cycle would have been.

 

 

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Reefkid88

 The thing is,it really can be as easy as that. But there are so many products flooded on the market advertising these instant cycles and yada yada that it takes that important part of setting a tank and it makes so everyone want an instant magazine worthy tank. 

 

 Idk the way this hobby has become,has kinda just turned me off really. I just sit back and laugh when this people start tanks,within a week cram it full of coral then want to know why their expensive coral died...lmao. I just sit back and laugh. 

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karen nation

Thanks for so many responses.  I guess I will get some bio spira and do the ammonia dosing routine.  I just wasn't sure if maybe shrimp in a bag maybe better .  When I picked up the rock they had live rock but it was just in a big bin of nothing but rock, no corals or fish ect..and the dry  was very pink and had purplish spores on it. I was told it was infused  I believe.  I cant remebr the name but I can  call the store tomorrow and ask.  I had heard lots of people say not to buy live rock. I also found the perfect pieces with a wide top ledge and two base pieces that made the perfect aqua scape and went with it!  Seems like whatever I do is wrong!  I bough saltwater kit then someone says get reef kit, so now I have both and they are basically the same.   Wrong sand delivered, not once but twice, then one falls and busts on floor!  haha. chemipure arrived rotted! 

 

It has seriously been a catastrophe! oh, and wrong light.  LOL then to top it all off my entire family has the flu except my hubby and now he thinks he is getting it. My son taken to hospital last night after this post.  He has been hospitalized so many times with aspiration pneumonia. He has down syndrome.  I wish we would have waited, but my hubby came home from the lfs with it , so I didnt want the water to sit.  Bad timing!  Its all been bad timing.  Bad decisions!  Another thing Is I have been unable to reach unique corals. I have called and emailed!  They are closed until the 2nd.  No way will I put those corals in anytime soon!  I have taken that advise!  I got caught up in this live sale and didnt use my brain. I saw everyone charging crazy high shipping prices.  I have since found much cheaper and better places to buy corals. I will dispute it with paypal, If they wont refund my money. so this has nothing to do with those corals. If I dont win then I will delay shipment for 3 months and break them up, unto 4 shipments.  Jvemox I believe gave me that advise and I did take it.  Some reason I cant respond to you individually but you said I didnt take any advise given , and I have taken your and I appreciate it.  So I need to figure which article to read about ammonia dosing, (several recommendations) That seems to be the method most use since I dont have live rock, and Its all set up already!  Another mistake!  lol. I sure hope things turn around on me!  I spent o much time with you tubes, also online..facebook, for equipment ect.. Researching things but not actually researching getting it cycled!  I enjoyed the youtubes of corals reefs so much, that was basically addicting  haha.  Oh and fish videos, corals, al that.  But this is the part that is no fun..Very scary and frustrating especially when you are sick! 

 

Someone said to watch brs  and I know they have a series I am going to watch  just not sure if I should start that now because there will be more to learn even after i get it cycled but they have a youtube called setting up a nano on a budget I believe. Its a nuvo 16.  I couldnt believe he said use tap water!  with a water conditioner, no filter!  That the rock was the filter and add biospiria and added fish next day! Of course they were trying to sell a nuvo 16 kit that came with all that mentioned but there are a ton of those youtubes on there as well, not just him.  Mass Aquariums too. So many that do youtubes and subscriptions to there channels.  THey seem to really know what they are talking about!  I was typing in setting up a 10 gallon nano salt water reef and overwhelming amount of biospiria and add fish.  I dont believe most used live rock either.  I not going to lie. I do hope I can get it cycled in 3 weeks or so but if it isnt ready than patience it shall be!  Thanks so much everyone and sorry to ramble.. I tend to leave long posts since I am quite a talker!  haha

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Joboo

Sorry to hear about your son. I also have a son with a chromosomal abnormality and certainly can understand the challenges. I hope he feels better soon.
 

One thing you might want to try is bringing the rock back in exchange for cured live rock. Most reputable fish stores should understand and take it back. You would want to make sure the rock you purchase is fully cured live rock. dropping that in your tank will significantly speed up the process. 

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karen nation
18 hours ago, mcarroll said:

 

 

 

Edited by karen nation
hubby came and messed it up

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karen nation

Thanks for so many responses.  I guess I will get some bio spira and do the ammonia dosing routine.  I just wasn't sure if maybe shrimp in a bag maybe better .  When I picked up the rock they had live rock but it was just in a big bin of nothing but rock, no corals or fish ect..and the dry  was very pink and had purplish spores on it. I was told it was infused  I believe.  I cant remember the name but I can  call the store tomorrow and ask.  I had heard lots of people say not to buy live rock. I also found the perfect pieces with a wide top ledge and two base pieces that made the perfect aqua scape and went with it!  Seems like whatever I do is wrong!  I bough saltwater kit then someone says get reef kit, so now I have both and they are basically the same.   Wrong sand delivered, not once but twice, then one falls and busts on floor!  haha. chemi pure arrived rotted! 

 

It has seriously been a catastrophe! oh, and wrong light.  LOL then to top it all off my entire family has the flu except my hubby and now he thinks he is getting it. My son taken to hospital last night after this post.  He has been hospitalized so many times with aspiration pneumonia. He has down syndrome.  I wish we would have waited, but my hubby came home from the lfs with it , so I didnt want the water to sit.  Bad timing!  Its all been bad timing.  Bad decisions!  Another thing Is I have been unable to reach unique corals. I have called and emailed!  They are closed until the 2nd.  No way will I put those corals in anytime soon!  I have taken that advise!  I got caught up in this live sale and didnt use my brain. I saw everyone charging crazy high shipping prices.  I have since found much cheaper and better places to buy corals. I will dispute it with paypal, If they wont refund my money. so this has nothing to do with those corals. If I dont win then I will delay shipment for 3 months and break them up, unto 4 shipments.  Jvemox I believe gave me that advise and I did take it.  Some reason I cant respond to you individually but you said I didnt take any advise given , and I have taken your and I appreciate it.  So I need to figure which article to read about ammonia dosing, (several recommendations) That seems to be the method most use since I dont have live rock, and Its all set up already!  Another mistake!  lol. I sure hope things turn around on me!  I spent o much time with you tubes, also online..facebook, for equipment ect.. Researching things but not actually researching getting it cycled!  I enjoyed the youtubes of corals reefs so much, that was basically addicting  haha.  Oh and fish videos, corals, al that.  But this is the part that is no fun..Very scary and frustrating especially when you are sick! 

 

Someone said to watch brs  and I know they have a series I am going to watch  just not sure if I should start that now because there will be more to learn even after i get it cycled but they have a youtube called setting up a nano on a budget I believe. Its a nuvo 16.  I couldnt believe he said use tap water!  with a water conditioner, no filter!  That the rock was the filter and add biospiria and added fish next day! Of course they were trying to sell a nuvo 16 kit that came with all that mentioned but there are a ton of those youtubes on there as well, not just him.  Mass Aquariums too. So many that do youtubes and subscriptions to there channels.  THey seem to really know what they are talking about!  I was typing in setting up a 10 gallon nano salt water reef and overwhelming amount of biospiria and add fish.  I dont believe most used live rock either.  I not going to lie. I do hope I can get it cycled in 3 weeks or so but if it isnt ready than patience it shall be!  Thanks so much everyone and sorry to ramble.. I tend to leave long posts since I am quite a talker!  haha

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N/A
4 hours ago, Tamberav said:

Because that is where the bacteria live and the rock is healthy and used to reef life. Buying live rock from a bin will likely still soft cycle as they tend to be dirty, devoid of proper flow and light. Sometimes that rock is newly shipped with lots of die off. I wouldn't trust a beginner to be able to decipher what is good live rock and what isn't so lets say for safety's sake... it's best not to rely on live rock from a bin to support fish or coral instantly.

 

Bottled bacteria still needs to establish themselves on the rock. I don't see how you can dump it in and say it is cycled "instantly". I dumped in an entire bottle of biospira into a hospital tank and it took about a week to where it could support the heavy feeding and constant pooping of fish. That is still really fast compared to the old methods and is impressive. 

I get what you mean now as more of a cya then a hard fast rule.

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N/A
12 minutes ago, karen nation said:

Thanks for so many responses.  I guess I will get some bio spira and do the ammonia dosing routine.  I just wasn't sure if maybe shrimp in a bag maybe better .  When I picked up the rock they had live rock but it was just in a big bin of nothing but rock, no corals or fish ect..and the dry  was very pink and had purplish spores on it. I was told it was infused  I believe.  I cant remember the name but I can  call the store tomorrow and ask.  I had heard lots of people say not to buy live rock. I also found the perfect pieces with a wide top ledge and two base pieces that made the perfect aqua scape and went with it!  Seems like whatever I do is wrong!  I bough saltwater kit then someone says get reef kit, so now I have both and they are basically the same.   Wrong sand delivered, not once but twice, then one falls and busts on floor!  haha. chemi pure arrived rotted! 

 

It has seriously been a catastrophe! oh, and wrong light.  LOL then to top it all off my entire family has the flu except my hubby and now he thinks he is getting it. My son taken to hospital last night after this post.  He has been hospitalized so many times with aspiration pneumonia. He has down syndrome.  I wish we would have waited, but my hubby came home from the lfs with it , so I didnt want the water to sit.  Bad timing!  Its all been bad timing.  Bad decisions!  Another thing Is I have been unable to reach unique corals. I have called and emailed!  They are closed until the 2nd.  No way will I put those corals in anytime soon!  I have taken that advise!  I got caught up in this live sale and didnt use my brain. I saw everyone charging crazy high shipping prices.  I have since found much cheaper and better places to buy corals. I will dispute it with paypal, If they wont refund my money. so this has nothing to do with those corals. If I dont win then I will delay shipment for 3 months and break them up, unto 4 shipments.  Jvemox I believe gave me that advise and I did take it.  Some reason I cant respond to you individually but you said I didnt take any advise given , and I have taken your and I appreciate it.  So I need to figure which article to read about ammonia dosing, (several recommendations) That seems to be the method most use since I dont have live rock, and Its all set up already!  Another mistake!  lol. I sure hope things turn around on me!  I spent o much time with you tubes, also online..facebook, for equipment ect.. Researching things but not actually researching getting it cycled!  I enjoyed the youtubes of corals reefs so much, that was basically addicting  haha.  Oh and fish videos, corals, al that.  But this is the part that is no fun..Very scary and frustrating especially when you are sick! 

 

Someone said to watch brs  and I know they have a series I am going to watch  just not sure if I should start that now because there will be more to learn even after i get it cycled but they have a youtube called setting up a nano on a budget I believe. Its a nuvo 16.  I couldnt believe he said use tap water!  with a water conditioner, no filter!  That the rock was the filter and add biospiria and added fish next day! Of course they were trying to sell a nuvo 16 kit that came with all that mentioned but there are a ton of those youtubes on there as well, not just him.  Mass Aquariums too. So many that do youtubes and subscriptions to there channels.  THey seem to really know what they are talking about!  I was typing in setting up a 10 gallon nano salt water reef and overwhelming amount of biospiria and add fish.  I dont believe most used live rock either.  I not going to lie. I do hope I can get it cycled in 3 weeks or so but if it isnt ready than patience it shall be!  Thanks so much everyone and sorry to ramble.. I tend to leave long posts since I am quite a talker!  haha

My best advice I can give you is slow down. You have 100000 of option for how to create a stunning reef tank. The issue most will have tho is listening to every single person and trying 10000 things. You need to find a few videos from ones who are not just going to show you how nice the tank looks but show you what they have done how they did it and the biggest part is the failures they have had. I do not know a single person in this hobby that has not had some sort of set back. Now  how they deal with it and have over come the issues is what you need to learn. Nothing good happens fast in any aquarium and more then any thing reefs hate fast changes so figure out how you are going to handle your tank and stick with it.

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karen nation

Something is messing up tonight.  I don't know how to use this site well.  How do I respond to individuals?  Seems to be no option for that and reposted my last reply and cant get it to go away only edit! I do want to thank Joboo for her kind words. It would be so nice to put this on back burner with him and all of us sick.  My daughter flew home for the holidays and is stuck here sick!  I wonder If I left it like it is for a few days. Just filtering the sand and infused rock, If it would be okay!  I dont want o buy new water and sand and all.  I just need to get to hospital because now my hubby has the flu and just left hospital so my son will spend his first night alone.  I am sure he will be in bed soon and asleep but i need to get up there tomorrow now and he is in no condition to get biospra, shrimp.  plus need to get new chemi blu elite, because what the sent me from amazon is rotted. 

 

Someone said I should have the media I plan on using and just went with what was in the filter but I was going to use floss and purigen and chemipure elite.  To much research for me to do the ammonia method, since i need to be at hospital.  What timing. I did think about returning the rock but I remember they just had lots of the base pieces, no top ledge type piece.  I really really love the aquascape I made and sat on their floor for like 1/2 hour making perfect aquascape. No to mention that place is 45 minutes from here and oposite direction from my house or hospital.  Better option just to get it cycled.  

 

 I thought this would be a great hobby for me!  I am disabled and my sons health is causing me anxiety isuues and my hubby has his band and i have no hobbys and i am bored silly! I spend so much of my life as a caregiver for him, so thought this would be great! Not just for me but the whole family as well.  So far its creating more stress to my life!  LOL  I guess once you learn the ropes it gets easy!  So hopefully I can get to petstore , hospital run back home, throw in biospiria and shrimp, the son gets well and we can start testing.  At this point I dont care if it takes a month.  Surely they will hold my order if they dont give me my refund, wont know util Jan 2 when they reopen!  ONe day I will look back on this crazy beginning and see my beautiful underwater world that I created (with help from ya'll) and just smile and make sure I post lots of pics....lol  Now off to research!  haha.  Oh ya think I can use a frozen shrimp or should i get one from the deli dept, probably just thawed frozen there as well though!  One thing.  I do have two test kits!  Reef and saltwater master kits!  haha. So can do lots of testing

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