BATMANS CLAM CAVE

[ZephNYC]

Just went down to feed the dendroneptheas and caught this shot. The filefish like to sleep in branches, I really love this shot!

 

 

 

 

Ok, so it is no secret most people have problems when it comes to large Maxima clams, myself included. Here is a post from a buddy on Reef Central, that is also fed up with the lack of success with these clams.

"What seems to be the problem with keeping these clams for more than a month?
I have lost 8 of them in the last 6 months. They do great and one morning they are receded and dead.
Everything else is perfect. This is in 2 different tanks that have been established for 5 years with tons of coralline algae.
90 gallon has 2 halides 175 watt 10k with 2 vho actinics 48" and 2 LED royal blue
300 gallon has 6 AI Sol Blue LED's
The 6 2.5-3" maximas and squamosas are doing great for a year now.Only the 6" are dropping like flys."

I must add that later on he admitted to doing 130 gallon WEEKLY water changes on his 300G system. A very important point to keep in mind.

I will give you a brief summery on my system, to help understand what has worked, and not worked for me in the past, and what I'm experimenting with today.

Back around 2005 I was having no problem keeping any species or size of clams. I had well over 50 clams in the 210, and life was good. Everything was growing, even the croceas and big maximas. Then my world came crushing in on me as the worst case of pinched mantle disease in history plagued my system for the next FIVE YEARS, killing every single clam except for one. My interest in the hobby was dwindling because, after all, If I cant keep clams, I don't even care to bother. So the tank just sat for well over a year, with the one good clam, until my interest was resurrected by new friends and NR. Everything had been fine for pretty long and I had high hopes the pathogen had died off. So I introduced several new clams of various species, only to watch them curl up from PM disease in a matter of days.

But I was on a mission.

Long story short, I was able to rid my system of the PM pathogen through severe iron deprivation via huge carbon reactors, heavy chemi pure and polyfilters. I even removed all the iron from newly mixed seawater before I did water changes. So I am excited to say I can now keep clams in my main system again, as long as its not a big maxima. As of today this tank contains a Gigas of 8 years, a Deresa of 9 months, a crocea of over 3 months, and a blue squamosa of 3 months. After losing a couple of Maximas, I have transplanted all the remaining maximas to the Batcave NPS tank, which gets 24/7 feedings of phyto just as an experiment.

So what I am doing now is reverting my system exactly to the way it was when I was able to keep large maximas.

Lighting-

I had success using 50/50 ..... half 10K halides and half 14 K halides. When I switched to even stronger halides ( 3X400W) but all 14K, I had little success. I believe clams do their best with pure 10K bulbs, but the tank is not visually pleasing to me under that spectrum, so I am going with what once worked.

Carbon -

When I first set up this system I didnt run any GAC whatsoever. The only things clams dislike more than GAC is ozone. Ozone will kill your clam., Don't even think about it. I have had far better results in the last few months relying only on my skimmer to remove enough organics for cleanliness, but to also leave behind just enough for good clam health. I feel the combination of the two can lead to you water simply being too clean. I actually like polyfilters better anyway, and do use a SINGLE sheet in a 400 Gallon system, just to aid in light penetration. Polyfilters are also known to spare trace elements.

Phosphate removers -

I have always used phosguard, and never had any bad reactions. I also make a point of not changing it in time, and letting the phosphates accumulate for a week or two before I bring it back down to zero for the next month or so. Some people have had problems with Iron based removers, and some have not, but adding iron will feed the pinched mantle pathogen if it lurks in your system, so I chose to err on the side of caution.

Water changes -

This is a biggie, and the biggest reason for losing clams, especially maximas. If you mixed up a fresh new batch of reef crystals in a bucket, adjusted the salinity and temperature just right, and dropped a clam in there, it would most likely be dead in the morning. This Is my biggest downfall, as for some bizarre reason, I love doing water changes. I have always done 5 - 30 gallon DAILY water changes on this system, and the more I did the worse my clams looked and the more they G A P E D. I once killed a group of large maximas with a 50% water change. Im not saying water changes are bad. If your water is high enough in DOC and organics, a water change will be good, but if your tank is very low in DOC and organics (ozone/carbon), a large water change can definitely do more harm than good. I believe this is the primary reason for my failure with large maximas.

I know I am like a broken record when I repeat myself about Wayne , but let it be know the most successful clam keeper IN THE WORLD never EVER adds newly mixed seawater to his closed system clam tank.

Nitrates -

When I had good success with large Maximas, my system was new and recently cycled, and it carried nitrates. but once again, my over indulgence in water changes leaded to a steady reading of absolute zero nitrates, and maximas just didnt last. Wayne actually adds nitrates and phosphates to his clam tank with old water from his fish system.

There are of course reasons for loses beyond your control. A high percentage of these clams are damaged from collection methods and are doomed from that point on. Coincidentally, that takes about 2 - 3 months. Just about the same amount of time it takes from collection, till it winds up in your tank and the 14 day guarantee just expired. This is why most prefer to purchase farm raise clams, but there are problems there as well. Primarily the very small size and high mortality rates baby clams carry.

So....to summarize my current beliefs for successful clam keeping:

Straight 20Kbulbs is the WORSTlighting to keep maximas. Even with 400W bulbs the spectrum is too dark.

Straight 14K bulbs will work if the clam is placed very high. Only maximas high on the frag rack did good under 100% 14K 250W. The sandbed did not receive enough light with for maximas and crocea clams. Deresas and squamosas did fine.

10K or 50/50 is best for all clams.

I know this halide chat is all irrelevant as I am prolly the only guy on NR that uses halides, so I apologize that I can not help when it comes to the most important aspect of clam keeping - LIGHT. So If you want to know about LED's ask JedimasterBen

Moonlights make clams happy. Moonlights have triggered regular spawning intervals in captive clams (Shang).

Nitrates are good. Clams are very good at utilizing nitrates and ammonia, Most recommend levels of 1 - 2 ppm, but some (Sprung) say up to 10ppm is fine. Phosphates should be zero most f the time. Even though they are a necessary nutrient, no tank in the history of the world has ever suffered from a lack of phosphates, and they will inhibit clam shell growth and SPS.

ok...its 2:30 Am. I need sleep. Moar later

<poof>

[jball1125]

Good read and that shot is awesome.

[jedimaster1138]

Good read and that shot is awesome.

 

This.

[ZephNYC]

Ok its 3 Am and Im taking pictures of Chilli corals.

 

[OMGSIIK]

Seems like clams really are a hit or miss. It's everyone's guess as to what happens. I'm afraid to change my habits or upgrade hardware due to the clams doing well in my tank. I'm not claiming I'm an expert... though I've done my fair share of reading. It seems like everyone has their way of doing things and certain hardware they run and it's all over the board on if clams survive or don't. Some have the simplest setups and have great success while others don't. Some have every tech known to the hobby and have success and others don't. I feel it's really quite a mystery. How many of your recent PEA clams have you lost Zeph?

[ZephNYC]

Seems like clams really are a hit or miss. It's everyone's guess as to what happens. I'm afraid to change my habits or upgrade hardware due to the clams doing well in my tank. I'm not claiming I'm an expert... though I've done my fair share of reading. It seems like everyone has their way of doing things and certain hardware they run and it's all over the board on if clams survive or don't. Some have the simplest setups and have great success while others don't. Some have every tech known to the hobby and have success and others don't. I feel it's really quite a mystery. How many of your recent PEA clams have you lost Zeph?

 

I will go as far as to admit I believe the most simplest set ups are the most effective, not only for clams but for all corals. My systems these days, and my favorite systems located all around the world, all share this logic and use nothing but a skimmer. THis originated in Berlin, and has always been referred to as the "Berlin system". The only thing I do differently is use phosphate remover because of my heavy NPS feedings.

I still have all 3 large Maximas I got from Dr. Mac in the last few months, but I did lose a smaller farmed clam, Most likely because the 14K bulbs did not offer enough light and the small clam was way on down on the sand. I have lost several of Dr. Macs big clams many months ago, before I changed my system around, most importantly the lighting.

[jedimasterben]

Lighting-

 

I had success using 50/50 ..... half 10K halides and half 14 K halides. When I switched to even stronger halides ( 3X400W) but all 14K, I had little success. I believe clams do their best with pure 10K bulbs, but the tank is not visually pleasing to me under that spectrum, so I am going with what once worked.

 

Straight 20Kbulbs is the WORSTlighting to keep maximas. Even with 400W bulbs the spectrum is too dark.

Straight 14K bulbs will work if the clam is placed very high. Only maximas high on the frag rack did good under 100% 14K 250W. The sandbed did not receive enough light with for maximas and crocea clams. Deresas and squamosas did fine.

10K or 50/50 is best for all clams.

I know this halide chat is all irrelevant as I am prolly the only guy on NR that uses halides, so I apologize that I can not help when it comes to the most important aspect of clam keeping - LIGHT. So If you want to know about LED's ask JedimasterBen

 

Moonlights make clams happy. Moonlights have triggered regular spawning intervals in captive clams (Shang).

 

A few points on lighting:

 

20K bulbs look dimmer than 14K and 10K bulbs - not because they don't put out enough light (they have far more PUR than 10K bulbs do), but because the cone receptors in our eyes really suck at seeing light in the 400-460nm range (despite having a blue cone receptor).

 

10K bulbs, on average, have nearly even amounts of blue, green, and red, usually more towards the red, which even clams do not use much of (and in large quantities can be detrimental to corals, especially those collected at 10m or more depth). The old saying '10k for growth, 20k for color' doesn't really hold up scientifically, as 10K bulbs, as an oversimplification, may simply cause corals to build out instead of up and have the appearance of more growth.

 

Even when talking PAR numbers, 10K bulbs measure out to be higher because red light makes a PAR meter flip shit, but zooxanthellae, even that from shallow-water species such as clams and acropora, absorb VERY little red light, despite chlorophyll's ability to absorb it. This is why we should look at PUR, which is a measure of only the light that is usable by our animals.

 

20K bulbs are very high in PUR - 10K bulbs are much lower, meaning that the potential for growth is higher with 20K bulbs than 10K, if other favorable conditions are met (enough light intensity, stable parameters, etc).

 

The look of the light also have to do heavily with the type of ballast that the bulbs are run in. A lot of people talk about the 20K Radium as if it is smurf blue, but they're usually running it on magnetic or electronic ballasts, when the bulb was only designed to run on HQI ballasts. Underdriving them causes them to be VERY blue looking, and emitting less total light. A Radium run on a proper ballast, put over a properly sized tank, will grow anything photosynthetic - corals, clams, corallimorphs, etc.

 

Clams need significant amounts of 428nm and 448nm light, and little 662nm, and those wavelengths are what 14K and 20K bulbs provide the most of (with not all having a spike at 428nm, but the Ushio 14K emits significant energy there).

 

 

 

Anyway. All I'm saying is that from what has been scientifically proven, clams want ridiculous amounts of violet/blue light, 410-480nm, and a little red light, 660nm. I will have more data and graphs coming on all of this in the future as soon as I can get my hands on a particular book, but here are a few things I've found while poking around.

 

Photosynthetic pigments of symbiotic dinoflagellates (zooxanthellae) from corals and clams

 

Nutritional ecology of the giant clams Tridacna tevoroa and T. derasa from Tonga: influence of light on filter-feeding and photosynthesis

 

Photosynthetic performance of giant clams, Tridacna maxima and T. squamosa, Red Sea

 

And a quote from Dana Riddle:

 

The most common environmental factor mentioned in hobby literature is that of light intensity or spectral quality. Alo (2005), in tests involving almost 400 T. maxima specimens distributed in 12 greenhouse systems and using different lighting setups in each system ('full greenhouse' light - peak PAR of 1,300-1,400mmol×m²×sec; 'shaded greenhouse' light - peak PAR of 700-1,000 mmol×m²×sec; and 10,000K metal halide light - maximum PAR of 1,450 mmol×m×sec, decreasing to 280 mmol×m²×sec (!) after 13 weeks), found only one T. maxima to shift coloration (from green to yellow) during the experiment's progress (this specimen was held in a 'shaded greenhouse' tank). However, during the clams' light acclimation period (an initial 5-hour photoperiod increased by 30 minutes daily until a 12-hour photoperiod was obtained) fourteen clams changed from green to gold, and two switched from blue to gold.

 

Of interest to many hobbyists is one of Alo's observations - those clams maintained under the 10,000K metal halide lamps never expanded their mantles as fully as those exposed to natural sunlight of any intensity. His work suggests spectral quality was in play, and he attributes statistically significant high clam mortality to the UV-A spike at 365nm in the metal halide's spectrum (which is an interesting observation, since other researchers have suggested refractive/reflective qualities produced by iridophores protect mantle tissues/zooxanthellae from UV-A radiation. Since the metal halide lamps were suspended 20 cm (8 inches) above the water surface, is it possible that infrared radiation - heat - generated by the lamps was transferred to the clams resulting in stress?). For those wondering, Alo keep careful records of nutrients within his systems.

[ZephNYC]

Hi!

Ready for my close minded opinion ??

 

I found that Interesting, but I have to confess that these days, after about 40 years in the hobby, I've long stopped reading most literature because 10 different abstracts on the same subject will say 10 different things. I only read who I like, mostly Sprung. I pretty much go by talking to people I trust, and even then take what they say as only an opinion. I go by my own trial and errors and what I actually see working in my own tanks - with my own eyes. With the exception of steadfast rules, like salinity, etc...I don't think there is any single technique that will accommodate what every hobbyist is attempting. There are just too many variables. Yea the light was 8 inches from the surface ( WAY TO CLOSE!!! ), how deep was the tank ? etc..... see what I mean ?

You can show me 10 articles on why clams do better under 20K or 40K and I simply wont believe them. I know they didn't work for me in my systems, event at 1200W. And I know the lighting all my clam gods on earth use, which is either 100% 10K, or 50/50 10K/14K. And like I said, I'm reverting back to what worked for me, and my good old friend Barry of Clamsdirect.com. who always loved 10K.

Im currently running large Maximas under two different lighting systems. Im using pure 10K on the clams in the Batcave, with an additional magenta/white stunner, and these clams are doing the best, even the large maximas, and the halide is only 150W because of all the NPS. This is really just an experiment, but very positive results so far. I also have a single large maxima in the 210SPS, with very heavy fish load and 50/50 lighting of 1000W, just like I used to, so time will tell.

[ZephNYC]

Ok, IMMA JjUMP OUT A WINDOW IN ABOUT 5 minutes. a building I sold in 2007 for 3 million turned around and got sold today for 21 million.

 

<looking for the nearest ledge>

[Deleted User 3]

Ok, IMMA JjUMP OUT A WINDOW IN ABOUT 5 minutes. a building I sold in 2007 for 3 million turned around and got sold today for 21 million.

 

<looking for the nearest ledge>

Fact of life. lol

[beebes]

Ok, IMMA JjUMP OUT A WINDOW IN ABOUT 5 minutes. a building I sold in 2007 for 3 million turned around and got sold today for 21 million.

 

<looking for the nearest ledge>

 

That's the kind of thing you just don't want to know.. but really must know if you want to improve future performance. Power through!

[eitallent]

Ok, IMMA JjUMP OUT A WINDOW IN ABOUT 5 minutes. a building I sold in 2007 for 3 million turned around and got sold today for 21 million.

 

<looking for the nearest ledge>

 

OMG What a difference five years make!

 

Don't jump Zeph! Look at this way at least you are not the sucker payin 21 million clams for it!

[jedimaster1138]

Ok, IMMA JjUMP OUT A WINDOW IN ABOUT 5 minutes. a building I sold in 2007 for 3 million turned around and got sold today for 21 million.

 

<looking for the nearest ledge>

 

Don't think of it that way. Think about all the clams you were able to buy with that 3 million $.

 

I try to help rationalize when I can.

[metrokat]

Ok, IMMA JjUMP OUT A WINDOW IN ABOUT 5 minutes. a building I sold in 2007 for 3 million turned around and got sold today for 21 million.

 

<looking for the nearest ledge>

where was this, bronx? An apartment is 4 mil these days.

[beebes]

where was this, bronx? An apartment is 4 mil these days.

 

Excuse me while I vomit due to absurdity.

[metrokat]

[ZephNYC]

just some quicky pictures before dinner !!! - of my massive pink pocillopora colony. its nearly 2 feet!

 

 

 

where was this, bronx? An apartment is 4 mil these days.

 

 

It was a walk up brownstone on 75th and 1 st ave.

[ZephNYC]

Fact of life. lol

yea....unfortunately. Booooo HOOooooooo

 

That's the kind of thing you just don't want to know.. but really must know if you want to improve future performance. Power through!

 

I was happy to double my $$$, and I was under a lot of pressure to sell. THe company that bought it from me was smart, they emptied it, paid off the rent controlled tenants about 250,000.000 each to move out, and sold it vacant as a one family townhouse. I could never have done that

 

OMG What a difference five years make!

 

Don't jump Zeph! Look at this way at least you are not the sucker payin 21 million clams for it!

 

I cant jump, who would care for my C L A M S !?!?!?!?!?

[Deleted User 3]

just some quicky pictures before dinner !!! - of my massive pink pocillopora colony. its nearly 2 feet!

Mmm dinner. I'm having... im not sure. I have jello and yogurt. and.. crackers... and raisins. lol end of the fiscal month for me sucks lol

[ZephNYC]

Don't think of it that way. Think about all the clams you were able to buy with that 3 million $.

 

I try to help rationalize when I can.

 

Ive prolly spent that much on clams in my life..at least it feels that way. And I only have abut 6 left. I suck!

[Deleted User 3]

PS... I've never seen that much money lol.

[ZephNYC]

hellfire goniopora - special order from Dr. Macaroni !!!! its a garbage phone pic, you cant see the white tips.

 

 

PS... I've never seen that much money lol.

 

 

 

only on statements, never liquid.

[Deleted User 3]

Regardless... lol. I just recently deposted 900k into peoples payroll accounts from work but thats as much as ive seen, and before that, was 10000 on paper. lol

[jball1125]

Oooooo I love gonioporas. My LFS has a nice colony of pink ones but they are over priced I think. Ill probably bite the bullet soon but still, for now they are over priced.

[ZephNYC]

Oooooo I love gonioporas. My LFS has a nice colony of pink ones but they are over priced I think. Ill probably bite the bullet soon but still, for now they are over priced.

 

I have had amazing luck with goniporas lately. They are all growing like crazy. I hate to admit this because every time I say how good my clams are doing one dies the next day. So I keep my mouth shut from now on.