atoll Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Think he means if the CORALS prefer the colours Albert. Even so I am not so sure they do or that's the case. Corals preferring a certain coral ... ? Makes no sense to me ... strange answer indeed Les Albert Well let's what comes back Be ready for the flack indeed Albert 1 Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 A reply and my comments on the same thread as the response I posted above on a UK forum. I was watching a documentary last week on the ocean and it showed some sps's. In parts' date=' the colours looked washed and in others they were brighter. Now if our oceans are becoming more acidic, that effects the corals. So, the question surely is.... Is a brightly coloured coral a healthy coral? And I didn't think it was just lights... I thought the zeo method also starves the corals into changing colours? (I could be completely wrong here).[/quote'] Interesting, however yes I have seen bright looking corals in the Red sea but nothing like what I saw SPS corals under these Radion's. 1 Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Think he means if the CORALS prefer the colours Albert. Even so I am not so sure they do or that's the case. Yes but how do the corals know about colors I ask ? Maybe when the pigments are more excited and give off more color the corals open more or whatever that change in color does but I am not sure that it makes any difference to the coral when the lighting is at least at the min or just a little more than what they are accustomed to, regardless of what color that leads to ... Corals cannot IMO sense color .... FWIW Albert A reply and my comments on the same thread as the response I posted above on a UK forum. Interesting, however yes I have seen bright looking corals in the Red sea but nothing like what I saw SPS corals under these Radion's. Indeed under those Radions (I have seen them at my local LFS) the color are not natural looking even not the way they look in certain parts of the Red Sea' Like you said it looks like the pic have been PS'ed ... Albert Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Tube Anemones ... which are not really "true" anemones ... A very detailed article http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/6/inverts Albert Quote Link to comment
baldrick Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 the prism skimmer is way to big it only has a 6 inch opening in the back of the tank.. 1 Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 the prism skimmer is way to big it only has a 6 inch opening in the back of the tank.. Look at the Instant Ocean one maybe then that one is much narrower Albert Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 More info on LRS Foods ..... From Larry's Blog .... http://blog.reeffrenzy.com/2014/03/frozen-fish-food-wysiwyg-or-is-it/ Albert Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Paul asked me to post this ... --------------------------------- Now I realize that there are some really beautiful tanks on here out of the thousands of tanks we have featured, but I also notice that many of the photo's are enhanced through photoshop. Many corals are really colorful as are our fish but some of the shots are over the top. I see a lot of purple hippo tangs, fluorescent clowns and glowing mandarins A mandarin is arguably the most colorful fish and hippo tangs are certainly the nicest color "blue" but I have spent time under water with almost all the fish we keep and those fish are no where near the colors represented on some of these forums. Corals either. I even see photo's of my own tank posted in different places on the web and they are enhanced by others.It certainly makes it look more beautiful and the corals are radiant. But that is not how any of these things appear in nature.I just would like Noobs to realize that some of the tank photo's are photoshoped and your real life tank will never normally look like that.This is a real coral reef in Bora Bora with just the camera flash.This is that same reef under the Tahitian tropical sun with no flash.I recently took this in Hawaii in shallow water with no flash. 1 Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 This is just what I have been saying Paul. As if the reefs, fish and and corals in their natural environment weren't beautiful enough. Some of the lights I see esp LED's are so gaudy as to make the corals seem so unreal and even dare I say like plastic replicas. The LED lights I now have look so much more natural than these over coloured produced LED units. I really do think you can't improve on nature but some obviously think they can. A few people have commented on my thread in the lighting forum on here but as usual most are missing the point. Oh well at least they haven't resorted to abuse .... well not yet anyway. Paul asked me to post this ... --------------------------------- 1 Quote Link to comment
DrVENKMAN Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Corals cannot IMO sense color .... FWIW Albert Red Light Represses the Photophysiology of the Scleractinian Coral Stylophora pistillata; Tim Wijgerde et al., 2014 PlosOne <http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0092781 In the photosynthetic realm, color, light duration and intensity regulate life cycle. 1 Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Red Light Represses the Photophysiology of the Scleractinian Coral Stylophora pistillata; Tim Wijgerde et al., 2014 PlosOne <http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0092781 In the photosynthetic realm, color, light duration and intensity regulate life cycle. Yes indeed they do ... but what was found is that too much red and/or magenta spectrum appears to affect the growth of LPS corals and even the survival rate of some if too much red is used. Of course too much red would also lead to the appearance of more algae ... IME FWIW Albert 1 Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Yes indeed they do ... but what was found is that too much red and/or magenta spectrum appears to affect the growth of LPS corals and even the survival rate of some if too much red is used. Of course too much red would also lead to the appearance of more algae ... IME FWIW Albert Well "too much red" like too much food will do your tank no good as will too much salt. Is anybody saying you should not use any red light? The emphasis is on the "too much red light" right? My 120w full spectrum LED unit has 2 out of 55 LED's is that too much? IME not at all but why have them? Well I can tell you they help colour balance and my lighting has never looked so natural. I am not saying my light is exactly the same as light a foot or so below the surface of a coral reef but compared to other LED's PC MH and T5s I have had it gives me the most natural looking light of them all. Having said that IMO there is a balance to be achieved between what is good for our corals and how we want our corals to look under our lighting. Many seem to plum for a gaudy look with very unnatural looking corals like nothing you would encounter on the reef. Surely lighting of our reef tanks is all about compromise, how we want our tanks to look and respect for the corals and animals we keep. Well that's my take on it. Les. 1 Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Well "too much red" like too much food will do your tank no good as will too much salt. Is anybody saying you should not use any red light? The emphasis is on the "too much red light" right? My 120w full spectrum LED unit has 2 out of 55 LED's is that too much? IME not at all but why have them? Well I can tell you they help colour balance and my lighting has never looked so natural. I am not saying my light is exactly the same as light a foot or so below the surface of a coral reef but compared to other LED's PC MH and T5s I have had it gives me the most natural looking light of them all. Having said that IMO there is a balance to be achieved between what is good for our corals and how we want our corals to look under our lighting. Many seem to plum for a gaudy look with very unnatural looking corals like nothing you would encounter on the reef. Surely lighting of our reef tanks is all about compromise, how we want our tanks to look and respect for the corals and animals we keep. Well that's my take on it. Les. Very true Les .. too much of anything is NOT good ... and when it comes to lighting finding the right mix of LED's is the key so the colors of he coral remain "natural" and do not appear "artificial" as you pointed out in other messages. Balance is the key indeed ... Albert 1 Quote Link to comment
Subsea Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 My favorite album is "A Question of Balance". Patrick 2 Quote Link to comment
Subsea Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 As a Cajun, I may like my colors somewhat gaudy. Only recently, have I made the change to LED on some of my tanks. Heat was the biggest issue for me. In my early days using florescent tubes with actinic and 6500 kelvin in a 1:1 ratio, it always worked for me. I still find the color pleasing and functional. As I cruise different hobby forums, I see the same discussion of red spectrum. With just one scientific article, I hear too many asking if they should remove the red spectrum from their LED array. I have found that both macro algae and coral grow in lighting zones that best suit their needs. In many cases, corals and macro can and will adapt to different lighting intensity and spectrum. In my display tanks, I balance what is best for the inhabitants with what looks good to me. Viva la difference, Patrick 2 Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Without Googeling it The Moody Blues? My favorite album is "A Question of Balance".Patrick 1 Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 My favorite album is "A Question of Balance". Patrick Balance and Patience .... Albert Quote Link to comment
Subsea Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Balance and Patience .... Albert Patience is my Achilles Heel. I used to pray for patience in my dealings with people. Then I found out that from a biblical perspective, trials and tribulations brings patience. I no longer pray for patience. Patrick 1 Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 As a Cajun, I may like my colors somewhat gaudy. Only recently, have I made the change to LED on some of my tanks. Heat was the biggest issue for me. In my early days using florescent tubes with actinic and 6500 kelvin in a 1:1 ratio, it always worked for me. I still find the color pleasing and functional. As I cruise different hobby forums, I see the same discussion of red spectrum. With just one scientific article, I hear too many asking if they should remove the red spectrum from their LED array. I have found that both macro algae and coral grow in lighting zones that best suit their needs. In many cases, corals and macro can and will adapt to different lighting intensity and spectrum. In my display tanks, I balance what is best for the inhabitants with what looks good to me. Viva la difference, Patrick Well everyone has their preferences and arguing and debating them makes little sense IMO as if the Hobbyist is pleased and satisfied with that they have and what it does for their corals then as they say if it ain't broke don't fix it .. so if that is what you like then go for it and with it ... LED is the new way to go but IMO it still needs a lot of refinement before everyone settles on what the ideal mix of colors is and that the best intensities are FWIW Ablert 2 Quote Link to comment
Subsea Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Without Googeling it The Moody Blues? When I returned home after four combat tours in Vietnam, I found myself searching for an inner peace with the world and myself. The Moody Blues introduced me to that journey. Patrick 2 Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Not sure we will ever reach an "ideal mix" surely lighting will always be a compromise. We thought many years ago we had the ideal mix with daylight and Actinic tubes alone. Maybe one day but as corals are found at different depths then unless we keep corals within a narrow depth of field then I don't think we will ever replicate the lighting at that particular depth. Also unless we keep say all Indonesian, Rev Sea, Barrier Reef etc then just like fish we will have a very much mixed reef coral wise. The purest would simply go for a species tank from a specific area as some indeed do. What we can do however IMO is get better at it as we have been doing since the introduction of marine fish and coral keeping which when compared to many hobbies its still in it's infancy. Well everyone has their preferences and arguing and debating them makes little sense IMO as if the Hobbyist is pleased and satisfied with that they have and what it does for their corals then as they say if it ain't broke don't fix it .. so if that is what you like then go for it and with it ... LED is the new way to go but IMO it still needs a lot of refinement before everyone settles on what the ideal mix of colors is and that the best intensities are FWIW Ablert 2 Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Patience is my Achilles Heel. I used to pray for patience in my dealings with people. Then I found out that from a biblical perspective, trials and tribulations brings patience. I no longer pray for patience. Patrick Interesting how you go about it .... I just force myself to be patient ... when I want to do something and it is actually not time to do it yet, I shift my focus to something else so I am not tempted to do what I should not do yet ... After a while ... maybe a long while, patience will come naturally but that is only MY experience Albert 1 Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 So Patrick you were riding your see saw then. Glad the Moodys helped you along the way. When I returned home after four combat tours in Vietnam, I found myself searching for an inner peace with the world and myself. The Moody Blues introduced me to that journey. Patrick 1 Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 When I returned home after four combat tours in Vietnam, I found myself searching for an inner peace with the world and myself. The Moody Blues introduced me to that journey. Patrick Glad to read it did ... But there are man ways ... the main thing is that that one worked for you .... Power to you Albert Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Not sure we will ever reach an "ideal mix" surely lighting will always be a compromise. We thought many years ago we had the ideal mix with daylight and Actinic tubes alone. Maybe one day but as corals are found at different depths then unless we keep corals within a narrow depth of field then I don't think we will ever replicate the lighting at that particular depth. Also unless we keep say all Indonesian, Rev Sea, Barrier Reef etc then just like fish we will have a very much mixed reef coral wise. The purest would simply go for a species tank from a specific area as some indeed do. What we can do however IMO is get better at it as we have been doing since the introduction of marine fish and coral keeping which when compared to many hobbies its still in it's infancy. The question indeed is "does an even ideal exist", especially given all the excellent points you bring up Les ... the variety of life forms we keep, that come from so many different geographical areas, make it unlikely indeed that we can come up with lighting, or for that matter other parts of our tank equipment, that is truly "ideal". Very good points indeed Les, but I guess we have to keep striving on getting closer and closer to what seems to be best, as ideal is IMO an elusive goal that we will not reach ... Nothing is ever "best" as that it implies that there can be "better" yet ... and even "better than that". Albert 1 Quote Link to comment
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