albertthiel Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Found the article.http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-10/fotm/index.php Yep that was more or less the way I fragged my Gorgonian which had a twig like central core. We didn't have the reef safe epoxy then of course and I had to simply wedge the inner core of the frag into a very small hole taking care not to break it and also that it did not touch the rock I was putting it on. Now I am wondering if indeed I was the first to frag photosynthetic Gorgonians this way all those years ago back in the 80s. Perhaps not but there was no Internet then and there were few that I had heard of trying to propagate corals here in the UK. At that time I don't recall reading any articles either on coral propagation at least not Gorgonians. Les. Glad you were able to access the article. Odd as the URL you posted is the same as the one I posted ... oh those computers sometimes! In the UK as you say you may very well have been the 1st one or one of the first ones, and on top of it publishing the details ... which had to appear in print as in those days hobbyists did indeed not have all that much access to the Internet and if they did there was not much info, and here in the US, in the late 70's there were still a lot of "Boards" that one had to go to, or somewhat later the "Fish section" on CompuServe and the one on Prodigy ... Charles Delbeek was in fact very active on the the Fishnet on CompuServe, and so was I, and quite a few others, but I agree, there was little talk about Corals and the like, it was mostly about Fish and FOWLR tank set ups although in those days no one really called them FOWLR's yet. Anyway if you do find that articles and you type it out in an email and scan the pics, I make it into an HTML file so I can post a link to it. Let me check what else is going on .... TTYL Albert Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) Coral and other Pictures by Kevin Kong and a surprise One © Kevin Kong and Michael Wang Kevin Kong and Michael Wang with Julian Sprung A look at their Tanks A Tank View Michael Wang and Julian Albert Edited September 24, 2012 by albertthiel Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 M. setosa this morning A little larger Albert Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Hooking Up an RO Unit Directly to Your Sump - A Recipe for Disaster © Mark Levenson and reefkeeping.com When it comes to reefkeeping, there are numerous basic tasks we'd like to automate. One of the most desired features is a way to top-off the tank automatically in order to replace water that has evaporated from the system, and many beginning hobbyists may not consider how important this is. As water evaporates, salinity rises in the display tank because salt does not evaporate. The water simply becomes more and more saline the longer the hobbyist waits to add freshwater. On the dangers of hooping it up in an automated fashion .... Link: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-05/ml/index.php Albert Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Jake Harvey's (Seapug) Reef Aquarium © Jake Harvey and reefkeeping.com Ironically, my entry into the reef tank hobby did not grow out of a lifelong passion for aquarium keeping. While I've always had an affinity for the Natural World and had kept goldfish and tetras as a child, a 35 gallon tank with a lone Cichlid and even a large Koi pond for a number of years, I had never maintained a marine tank of any kind. My passion was with the terrestrial world-- specifically, the collecting and growing of bonsai trees, miniature landscapes, and exotic tropical & succulent plants. As an outgrowth of my career as a graphic designer I also dabbled in landscape design in a personal effort to extend my artistic skills to nature. Living in coastal Southern California gave me ample access to many specialty gardening clubs, nurseries and year 'round sun and agreeable climate to take advantage of. That all changed around late 2004 when a friend I met through plant circles was visiting at my house and after viewing my plant collection, said the words opened up a whole new world for me: "Man, you should really set up a reef tank..." Link: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-04/totm/index.php Albert Quote Link to comment
dling Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Thanks for the response and yes please do let me know when you get a chance ... no rush. I appreciate it as I would like to find out what the article states. Thanks. Albert Hey Albert. The magazine is the "Aquarium Fish International " The article is called "Reef Aquarium Advances Part 2 " on page 31 and your name is on page 32 , used in reference to the 1980's giving you and someone named J.P. Burleson credit for bring German manufactures of skimmers and metal halide of the U.S market. Congrats. Quote Link to comment
henningero Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Gorgonian Propagation Techniques © Greg HIller and reefkeeping.com Link: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-10/fotm/index.php Albert Hi Albert! I've been following along on this great thread since page 1, and it's my favorite thread on the forum! Thanks for all of your contributions to the hobby and this forum. OK, now that the pleasantries are out of the way, on to my question. I read this article at one time before, and after re-reading it I have a question: How long is this gorgonian out of the water during the process of fragging? The author states "After about 30-60 minutes the epoxy is sufficiently cured for the coral to be placed back into the aquarium.". Is this detrimental to the coral? How long can these corals be out of the water before any permanent damage occurs? Thank you in advance for the response, and if you're ever in Philadelphia, shoot me a PM, and I'll buy you lunch! Josh Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Hey Albert. The magazine is the "Aquarium Fish International " The article is called "Reef Aquarium Advances Part 2 " on page 31 and your name is on page 32 , used in reference to the 1980's giving you and someone named J.P. Burleson credit for bring German manufactures of skimmers and metal halide of the U.S market. Congrats. Thanks for letting me know. I obviously do not have that magazine and wonder whether the article was ever put on the Net ... yes J Burleson was active in the hobby in those days and wrote quite a few articles as well. Not sure whether he is still in manufacturing though. Have not seen anything by him for a long time Thanks for the update, I appreciate it. Albert Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Hi Albert! I've been following along on this great thread since page 1, and it's my favorite thread on the forum! Thanks for all of your contributions to the hobby and this forum. OK, now that the pleasantries are out of the way, on to my question. I read this article at one time before, and after re-reading it I have a question: How long is this gorgonian out of the water during the process of fragging? The author states "After about 30-60 minutes the epoxy is sufficiently cured for the coral to be placed back into the aquarium.". Is this detrimental to the coral? How long can these corals be out of the water before any permanent damage occurs? Thank you in advance for the response, and if you're ever in Philadelphia, shoot me a PM, and I'll buy you lunch! Josh Thanks for the kind words and I am glad you like the content of the thread. On the Gorgonian: as far as I know the shorter the time it is out of the water the better but this author seems to have had no issues leaving it out for that long. Personally I am not aware that 30-60 minutes will do any damage though. Also, of course, nowadays, such a long time would not be needed as the current epoxies sold cure under water and a lot faster than those used years ago. Now Les from the UK did some Gorgonian fragging in the 80's and maybe he can chime in and give us some more input. Good question though ... Thanks Albert Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Glad you were able to access the article. Odd as the URL you posted is the same as the one I posted ... oh those computers sometimes! Anyway if you do find that articles and you type it out in an email and scan the pics, I make it into an HTML file so I can post a link to it. Let me check what else is going on .... TTYL Albert Les .......... can you take a look at that question about how long a Gorgonian can be out of the water since you did work with them in the 80's. Thanks. Albert Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) Reef Invertebrates, An Essential Guide to Selection, Care and Compatibility Book Authored by: © Anthony Calfo & Robert Fenner Review of the Book by © Bob Goemans Link: http://www.saltcorner.com/Reviews/showreview.php?reviewID=65 Albert Edited September 24, 2012 by albertthiel Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Another Article on Kalkwasser and How to Prepare It KALKWASSER - IN DEPTH by Articles from Reefscape.net (Posted with © www.reefscapes.net and © Breefcase's permission from works written in © reefs.org) The method described in the article does use Vinegar (acetic acid) to maximize the concentration of the KW and its potency. Link: http://www.saltcorner.com/Reviews/showreview.php?reviewID=65 Albert Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Now Les from the UK did some Gorgonian fragging in the 80's and maybe he can chime in and give us some more input. Good question though ... Thanks Albert Although keeping a Gorgonian frag out of the water for 30mins or so (personally I have never kept one out of water for so long) I think the quickest it is back in water the better. Using epoxy is the best way to go but I see no reason why you can remove some tank water and put in a small container along with the frag. That way the frag will be in calm water while the epoxy sets. Frags can then be transferred back into the main aquarium as required. Les. Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Les .......... can you take a look at that question about how long a Gorgonian can be out of the water since you did work with them in the 80's. Thanks. Albert Sorry Albert I have been out all afternoon shopping with my other half but have replied to your post above. While out I bought a large blue Octopus soft coral from a shop I don't often visit in another town we visited. A bit naughty of me for sure as it was an impulse buy and it was so large I have fragged already it into about 8 smaller pieces given it is too big to fit anywhere in my nano. . I may well sell some of those frags on when they have overcome the shock of being fragged and have settled in. I will post some pic's later. First of all I need to find out just what it is exactly as I have never heard of a Octopus coral before. Les. Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Although keeping a Gorgonian frag out of the water for 30mins or so (personally I have never kept one out of water for so long) I think the quickest it is back in water the better. Using epoxy is the best way to go but I see no reason why you can remove some tank water and put in a small container along with the frag. That way the frag will be in calm water while the epoxy sets. Frags can then be transferred back into the main aquarium as required. Les. Indeed Les, the sooner the better IMO, and the suggestion of using a small container with tank water is indeed a very good one. I guess what we have to remember is that the article referred to was written several years ago, and at that time I am not sure that the fast drying and underwater use epoxies were available, and that could be the reason that the author kept them out of the water for 30 or more minutes. Mind you since Gorgonians do not have open pores on their skeleton (like sponges) no air can really get inside the frag ... and block food uptake areas as it can do for sponges that may get blocked channels and may no longer be able to filter water through them. Since the fragging was successful apparently, I must assume that the author would not have mentioned the timeframe as that long unless it did not harm the Gorgonian. Thanks for your input. Albert Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) Sorry Albert I have been out all afternoon shopping with my other half but have replied to your post above. While out I bought a large blue Octopus soft coral from a shop I don't often visit in another town we visited. A bit naughty of me for sure as it was an impulse buy and it was so large I have fragged already it into about 8 smaller pieces given it is too big to fit anywhere in my nano. . I may well sell some of those frags on when they have overcome the shock of being fragged and have settled in. I will post some pic's later. First of all I need to find out just what it is exactly as I have never heard of a Octopus coral before. Les. It is similar to Frogspawn ... Octopus Coral = Galaxea fascicularis Here is a link .. it's the second one on the third row ... and yes ... Pics and more pics ... http://www.melevsreef.com/id/lps.html Albert Edited September 24, 2012 by albertthiel Quote Link to comment
henningero Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Indeed Les, the sooner the better IMO, and the suggestion of using a small container with tank water is indeed a very good one. I guess what we have to remember is that the article referred to was written several years ago, and at that time I am not sure that the fast drying and underwater use epoxies were available, and that could be the reason that the author kept them out of the water for 30 or more minutes. Mind you since Gorgonians do not have open pores on their skeleton (like sponges) no air can really get inside the frag ... and block food uptake areas as it can do for sponges that may get blocked channels and may no longer be able to filter water through them. Since the fragging was successful apparently, I must assume that the author would not have mentioned the timeframe as that long unless it did not harm the Gorgonian. Thanks for your input. Albert Thanks for the input Les and Albert. My purple gorg (not sure of the scientific name, but it has brown polyps and is photosynthestic), grows like a weed and I've fragged it many times in the 2 years that I've had it. I usually only have it out of the water for a few minutes, which is why this article struck me as odd. Anyway, I'd be more than willing to ship you a 6 inch frag with a few branches if interested Albert. Shoot me a PM if you'd like. I never know what to do with my frags, as I've been donating to my local LFS recently. Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) It is similar to Frogspawn ... Octopus Coral = Galaxea fascicularis Here is a link .. it's the second one on the third row ... and yes ... Pics and more pics ... http://www.melevsreef.com/id/lps.html Albert Nope, after some research I have found it and here is a pic of one not mine but one of the same, its a Sympodium soft coral similar to some Xenia species. The 8 frags are now residing in my bargain frag rack more of which later.There is conflicting advice on the amount of light it likes some say it accepts bring light others medium light so I will see. While in the frag rack they are getting a fair bit of light right now. All suggest however they don't like a lot of flow and in the frag rack the flow is moderate Edited September 24, 2012 by atoll Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Thanks for the input Les and Albert. My purple gorg (not sure of the scientific name, but it has brown polyps and is photosynthestic), grows like a weed and I've fragged it many times in the 2 years that I've had it. I usually only have it out of the water for a few minutes, which is why this article struck me as odd. Anyway, I'd be more than willing to ship you a 6 inch frag with a few branches if interested Albert. Shoot me a PM if you'd like. I never know what to do with my frags, as I've been donating to my local LFS recently. henningero: I agree with you that caution is always better than having to find a cure if something went wrong so your remarks are definitely to the point. It may also be that in the case of the article that out of all the frags only a few made it and that one of them was one that had been out of the water a long time ... could be, but as you state a few minutes is in my opinion definitely better. Good point. Thanks for the offer. I appreciate it. Albert Quote Link to comment
eitallent Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Articles by Randy Holmes-Farley, who owns the copyright to them The “How To” Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners, Part 1: The Salt Water Itself http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/rhf/index.php . . . . . . . . . . . The “How To” Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners, Part 2: What Chemicals Must be Supplemented http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/rhf/index.php Albert Added to the top of my"To Read" list. TY, Albert. Happy belated Birthday! Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Nope, after some research I have found it and here is a pic of one not mine but one of the same, its a Sympodium soft coral similar to some Xenia species. The 8 frags are now residing in my bargain frag rack more of which later.There is conflicting advice on the amount of light it likes some say it accepts bring light others medium light so I will see. While in the frag rack they are getting a fair bit of light right now. All suggest however they don't like a lot of flow and in the frag rack the flow is moderate Wow I guess there are several that are called Octopus coral ... and yes it is similar to Xenia in a way as far as I can determine. It is said to prefer medium light and moderate to a little higher flow but other say that it will do well in higher light conditions as well. Nice looking and the blue ones are said to be "rare" but that may just be LFS's calling them rare for more $$$. Not sure. It does not pulse but sways nicely in the flow ... Great buy ! And when you sell the frags you'll be making some money on it ! Thanks for the Pic ... I have not seen it called Octopus here in the US though but it is Sympodium spp. based on looking at yours and some pics I found on reseller sites. Keep us updated. Thanks Albert Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Added to the top of my"To Read" list. TY, Albert. Happy belated Birthday! Thanks eitallent ... I appreciate it ... and yes those are good articles indeed. Albert Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) Wow I guess there are several that are called Octopus coral ... and yes it is similar to Xenia in a way as far as I can determine. It is said to prefer medium light and moderate to a little higher flow but other say that it will do well in higher light conditions as well. Nice looking and the blue ones are said to be "rare" but that may just be LFS's calling them rare for more $$$. Not sure. It does not pulse but sways nicely in the flow ... Great buy ! And when you sell the frags you'll be making some money on it ! Thanks for the Pic ... I have not seen it called Octopus here in the US though but it is Sympodium spp. based on looking at yours and some pics I found on reseller sites. Keep us updated. Thanks Albert Thanks for the info Albert and it kinda bears out what I found on the net to some extent. The coral cost me £30 UK pounds about $48. I will keep 2 of the frags and probably sell 6 on but not sure for how much yet possibly around £8 about $13 each. Edited September 24, 2012 by atoll Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Thanks for the info Albert and it kinda bears out what I found on the net to some extent. The coral cost me £30 UK pounds about $48. I will keep 2 of the frags and probably sell 6 on but not sure for how much yet possibly around £8 about $13 each. Yes I looked at images of Octopus coral and most come up with the Galaxea and some with Frogspawn but only 1 or 2 with Sympodium .. Guess that was a real good buy ... and a little money maker for you ! Nice. Good you did not get this Octopus one : That would have been a problem :-) I guess you will post some pics of the frags once they perk up ... thanks Les Albert Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) This is the cheap as in £1 about $1.6 frag rack I picked up today. It is designed as a soap etc holder with suckers to attach in showers and bathrooms etc. The curved edges are great as you can fit it right into the corners of the tank. Pic looking down on it. Close up of my cheap frag rack in the tank with my Sympodium frags in residence. My Sympodium frags shortly after introduction into my main tank so still not expanded. Not the best pic of it in my tank esp as the waters surface is rippled as indeed all reef tank surfaces should be. Edited September 24, 2012 by atoll Quote Link to comment
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