THE OFFICIAL ASK ALBERT THIEL THREAD

September 27, 2012

This was received from a Member via PM ...

Hi Albert,

How's it going? I hope you are well. Happy belated birthday, did you have a nice day? I knew because I went to your profile page to send you this message and it showed your dob.

I was hoping that you could give me some advice on using hydrogen peroxide to remove GHA and the fauchea algae that you identified.

Over the last month or so I have kept my hands out of the tank, mainly because I have been very buy, partly because I thought it would be better to avoid frequently putting my hands in the tank, and partly to see what would happen to the algae.

I can tell you that the algae, both GHA and fauchea, spread everywhere. I finally stuck my hands in the tank last weekend and started removing it. But there is still so much in the tank that covers the rock quite finely and so is difficult to remove unless I take the LR out of the tank and brush it. But then I don't want to alarm my firefish by taking his home away.

And also, before I had my firefish I had done that once before anyway; I brushed the LR using a toothbrush and replaced it in the tank. But soon enough the GHA came back.

So this time I am thinking about this hydrogen peroxide method. I have a sack of Purigen in the HOB filter by the way and Rowaphos too. I upped the Rowaphos amount a few days ago because the amount I put in last time simply wasn't working.

I think that the GHA is spreading from one particular piece of LR. However that piece has a zoa frag glued on it so I don't really want to take it out of the water in order to eradicate it of GHA; the zoa may end of dying.

And also, even if the zoa wasn't on it, I am not sure how much use it would be now because so many of the rock seem to have a 'fine fur' of GHA on them.

What do you think?

Thanks for the Birthday wishes ... I appreciate it ... and yes I did have a nice day and evening and got some goodies for the tank including a M. setosa of which I posted a picture on the thread on the 23rd.

Based on what you write you seem to have a real infestation of GHA and Fauchea algae that has now spread to just about everywhere in your tank, and is going to require IMO some very drastic measures to clean up and get the tank back in shape.

Below is what I recommend, which is really a drastic method to deal with what appears to be an out of control situation where it comes to algae growth.

The Fauchea can be removed by hand usually, but it depends on how much growth you have and whether you can get all of it out to the base or it will regrow, so you many need to just deal with it as suggested below for the GHA.

Basically IMO since the infestation is so large I feel that the only way you are going to get this under control is by cleaning and scrubbing every piece of rock and use the H202 dip as you mentioned above.

I know that you are concerned about disturbing your firefish but there is no way to avoid that and it may be best to get him out of the tank and place him in another aquarium if you have one. If not you may have to get a small one for the fish and the corals, or better find an LFS that will hold all your corals and the fish for you.

I would remove all the rock from the tank (and yes you may lose that Zoa), or you can try to remove it by slicing it off. Put all corals in another tank and aerate it and while you treat the main tank, do water changes to keep the water chemistry in check.

The procedure to use for every rock is to first boil it for a good 30 minutes or so, then put it in a bucket and use a mixture that has 30% hydrogen peroxide in it (3%) and let it sit in there for a good hour and while it is in there scrub and srub and srub till you get all the hair algae and whatever else is on there off.

Because you boiled it it should be fairly easy to get off, but you must make sure that you really use a hard bristle brush so you can get every bit of algae off.

After that rinse it several times to get any residual H2O2 off.

Of course all your denitrifying bacteria will be gone as well and in essence you are going to have to start the tank over again, which kind of poses a problem since you have corals and that fish and for the tank to recycle time will be needed (say 4 weeks).

As I said you may want to look into finding a pet store that can hold them all for you during the time you recycle your tank.

Get rid of all the live sand you have as cleaning that is just about a lost cause and even if you do a good job there may be spores left of algae and when the tank is back up and running that may again give rise to GHA + the sand probably has phosphate in it that is bound to the sand and will go back in solution if you re-use it.

In essence IMO you have to start all over ... unfortunately.

The alternative is to get rid of all the rock and all the sand and buy new one, and recycle your tank after you have cleaned it out and scrubbed it and treated it with bleach to kill everything off that is in it after you have emptied it. You need to make sure that if you use that method that you kill off anything that is in the tank like in the corners, or on the glass or bottom etc .... so that when you start it back up there is nothing left at all that can regrow and start giving you problems again.

I am sorry that I cannot recommend anything else but your situation seems to be so out of hand that the only solutions I can think of is either the cleaning as I explained, or just starting all over again after you have cleaned that tank out completely and are sure that it is like new and that nothing of the old tank that may regrow is left over.

I know that this is not the best news but I am afraid that based on what you describe those are the only solutions I can think of.

Albert

Edited September 27, 2012 by albertthiel

September 27, 2012

Corals by Rare Reef, Jlo Corals and Siam Marine

Albert

September 27, 2012

Millions of New Plankton Species Found

A video and article on what they discovered as they traveled the Oceans of the World

Link:

http://tinyurl.com/92vnq9y

Albert

September 27, 2012

Scientists Predict Major Shifts in Pacific Ecosystems by 2100

What if you woke up every day to find that the closest grocery store had moved several miles farther away from your home?

Over time, you would have to travel hundreds of extra miles to find essential food for yourself and your family. This is potentially a scenario faced by thousands of marine animals affected by climate change.

A new study published in Nature Climate Change examines the distribution of various open ocean animals in the North Pacific and explores how that could change over the next century as global ocean temperatures increase and productivity levels shift.

The researchers conclude that some critical ocean habitats could undergo significant changes in location, moving more than 600 miles from where they are now, while other habitats could remain relatively unchanged.

Link:

http://tinyurl.com/9sxngn2

Albert

September 27, 2012

Many of us are always looking for mesh bags for Compounds

Found this one at Petsmart for $0.99 for a 4 by 12 Media bag

Albert

September 27, 2012

Today I removed this from one of my Leather Corals

The pictures are not very clear as they are not taken with a Macro Lens but it appeared as what looked like an air bubble on the top of the Coral, and when I put a baster to it, I was able to suck it out without any issue, it just came right off.

I wonder if anyone has every seen anything like it (I will do some searches on the Net as well) but it appears to be either a parasitic growth or a hitchhiker on the Leather of unknown ID

Here are some pictures (one is taken at regular size and the second one is an enlarged view)

If anyone has any idea what this may be do let me know ... Thanks

Albert

Upon further examination under a strong magnifying glass, and some more research this is more than likely a boring sponge that may be parasitic to Leather Corals

This one was on the to, but when I look at that Leather from the back of the tank, I found another one and removed it and a white hard spicule ending in a sharp point was at the end of it. Pic below but may be hard to see.

It is actually white and come off the main part of the sponge and the pointy part was embedded into the Leather Coral.

After removing it the Leather now has a small depression where tissue is missing. Hopefully it will regenerate by missing tissue.

Albert

September 27, 2012

Google Street View Goes Underwater, Takes Panoramic Photos of Coral Reefs

Article and Video Link:

http://tinyurl.com/9c2ye6p

Albert

September 28, 2012

Thanks for the kind words .. I appreciate it ... as to my knowledge .. well I am sure there are a lot of members on this forum who have just as much if not more.

This is truly one of the forum where a number of members have been keeping tanks for so long that they have accumulated it through practicing and observation, and participating in discussion ... but there is always more to learn ... in this hobby something new and unexpected can always come about, and the interaction of all the members often brings about the answers to whatever it is that needs clarification or an explanation.

But on to your tank ... yes do a test just so you know what the level is. Can't hurt. Good to read that you do not have algae problems which IMO would be an indication that the levels are low, and as you say your CUC's are taking care of whatever may grow.

On the Clams ... maybe they just need a little more time to get used to the changes in the water quality after the Tech M addition and the chemi pure you added.

Thanks for the update.

Albert

I just did my Phosphate pro test from red sea and it is showing 0. That's kida what I was thinking... Clams are both still shut! I don't know... How long should I give the clams before being conserved before they opened?

September 28, 2012

I just did my Phosphate pro test from red sea and it is showing 0. That's kida what I was thinking... Clams are both still shut! I don't know... How long should I give the clams before being conserved before they opened?

My tests show this now:

Mg:1360

Kh:8.4

Ca:420

P04:0

Ph:8.2

Temp:78.1

Ammonia: 0

September 28, 2012

I just did my Phosphate pro test from red sea and it is showing 0. That's kida what I was thinking... Clams are both still shut! I don't know... How long should I give the clams before being conserved before they opened?

Yes that is sort of what I suspected based on your original description you gave of the tank. All parameters now seem to be right but I see that the pH has now dropped to 8.2 from 8.53 (or is that due to measuring at different hours of the day?)

All I can think of that may keep them closed is that they are being irritated by some fish or other organism in the tank ... Can you have a good look around, especially on the shell, and make sure there are no snails or anything else that is bothering them and keeping them closed.

I suggest you read the article below (link to a message on this thread) that deals with two main problems that can occur with Tridacnid Clams :

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...t&p=4032616

Also ... did you change anything to the lighting that is over the tank ? Do let me know. Thanks.

Albert

My tests show this now:
Mg:1360

Kh:8.4

Ca:420

P04:0

Ph:8.2

Temp:78.1

Ammonia: 0

Those are fine ... pH dropped as pointed out in my other post but since the clams were closed already there has to be another reason.

After you read the article to which I gave you a reference let me know what you think and also as suggested inspect the clams and let me know what you saw, if anything.

Otherwise may it is irritation by something different than snails ... could be a bristle worm or similar, but only inspecting the clams carefully will tell you if that could be the case.

Keep me posted please

Albert

September 28, 2012

More Corals by Rare Reef, Jlo Corals and Siam Marine - (II)

Albert

Edited September 28, 2012 by albertthiel

September 28, 2012

Yes that is sort of what I suspected based on your original description you gave of the tank. All parameters now seem to be right but I see that the pH has now dropped to 8.2 from 8.53 (or is that due to measuring at different hours of the day?)

All I can think of that may keep them closed is that they are being irritated by some fish or other organism in the tank ... Can you have a good look around, especially on the shell, and make sure there are no snails or anything else that is bothering them and keeping them closed.

I suggest you read the article below (link to a message on this thread) that deals with two main problems that can occur with Tridacnid Clams :

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...t&p=4032616

Also ... did you change anything to the lighting that is over the tank ? Do let me know. Thanks.

Albert

Those are fine ... pH dropped as pointed out in my other post but since the clams were closed already there has to be another reason.

After you read the article to which I gave you a reference let me know what you think and also as suggested inspect the clams and let me know what you saw, if anything.

Otherwise may it is irritation by something different than snails ... could be a bristle worm or similar, but only inspecting the clams carefully will tell you if that could be the case.

Keep me posted please

Albert

In particular check for pyramid snails as these seem to be appearing more common for some reason.

September 28, 2012

REF: Clams not opening after a few days now:

In particular check for pyramid snails as these seem to be appearing more common for some reason.

Yes indeed Les, I posted it on his regular thread as well as he has the same messages there too (which is fine)

Here is another article for him :

http://www.brettsreef.com/watch-out-for-pyramid-snails/

And here is what they look like since they are so small and may be hard to see unless you know what to look for:

What he should check also is the base ... the byssal gland, and make sure that it is attached to the substrate and that no loose strands are seen, as that may be a sign of an attach by those snails IME.

Thanks for pointing out the Pyramid snail issue as often that is what leads to their demise.

What is odd though is that they were apparently doing well and suddenly closed after he added Chemi-Pure (mainly carbon) and was running a pH of 8.53 but he stated that his pH had been at that level for some time so odd that they so suddenly closed and are not re-opening.

My guess, but I cannot be sure, and have not seen any pictures of them, would be irritation by either snails or sponges or bristle or other worms.

Let see what he responds after he reads the articles and inspects the clams ...

Thanks

Albert

September 28, 2012

Albert:

If you put in more Phosphate-E than your system has phosphates, how long does the Lantanum Chloride stay in your system and is it harmful? I find that a phosphate test is completely useless when your phosphates are really low, as the algae is consuming it, so it's difficult to know how much Phosphate-E you should continue to dose. I've been putting a capful into the system every couple days as I still have some algae, so I know there continues to be phosphates, even though my tests read around .03

In re-reading my response to your post I see that I did not cover the topic above:

When PO4 gets real real low and undetectable with your test kit, I would discontinue the use of Phosphate-E and rely on the GFO or Aluminum Oxide to keep the PO4 at low levels and only re-use the Phosphate-E, if the PO4 level is going back up.

Now if you use Phosphate-E and your PO4 level is totally undetectable then the Lanthanum Chloride, according to what I read, will have very little to react with and will enter the aquarium before it reacts with PO4 in the area where you add it, and then bind with whatever phosphate may be present in and on rocks, and form the floc that I mentioned earlier.

That floc in minimal or small quantities should not cause a problem but if too much of it accumulates, it may form a white film on the rock but some say on the glass.

If that happens you definitely know that you have added more than enough and should stop adding more.

Note that the white film (carbonate and Lanthanum) can be hard to remove and may have to be scraped off with a razor blade, which is OK in glass aquarium but is not fine in acrylic ones as it may leave scratches.

Note that minor scratches in acrylic can be rubbed out using the Magic Sponge that I posted about earlier on this thread (just do a search for Magic Sponge and the article (post) will come up.

Of course you can use Magic Sponges to clean your glass as well BUT .. as I pointed out the sponge material needs to be rinsed under hot water several times and squished out and rinsed again a few times to remove any material that is on it, as if you do not do so, your skimmer will go "bananas" as they say.

Once you have rinsed it several times though, it will not make the skimmer foam far more than it normally does.

Rinse the sponge well after using it, and get it to look clean again, and you can then re-use it when needed.

Back to the La Chloride: as I said if your levels are really low (say < 0.03 ppm) stop using it and monitor your PO4 and if it goes back up, even though you have other PO4 scavengers in your filters, use it again as needed.

Hope this answer the portion of all your questions that I did not cover

Albert

Edited September 28, 2012 by albertthiel

September 28, 2012

Watch out for Pyramid Snails .... and your Clams

Pictured below on the dime is a couple of pyram snails or pyramid snails.

These cute little fellas can cause a whole heck of a problem in your reef tank if you keep clams, starfish and larger snails such as astrea snails.

There are different types of pyramid snails the ones shown on the dime are the ones that feed on tridacna clams.

Link:

http://www.brettsreef.com/watch-out-for-pyramid-snails/

Albert

September 28, 2012

A Few More Corals by Rare Reef, Jlo Corals and Siam Marine - (III)

Albert

September 28, 2012

Climate Is Changing the Great Barrier Reef - Concerns?

Link:

http://tinyurl.com/d5f45m5

Albert

September 28, 2012

Google Street View Goes Underwater, Takes Panoramic Photos of Coral Reefs

© thelivingocean.net

Article and Video Link:

http://tinyurl.com/9c2ye6p

Albert

Very cool Albert! Thanks for sharing that.

September 28, 2012

Very cool Albert! Thanks for sharing that.

Yes I agree, quite something and hopefully they will keep expanding it and also do it on more reefs.

Albert

September 28, 2012

Here is a pic I took yesterday of my closed up clams if this helps any... I will check sunday for the snails at night bacause I am going out of town today and saturday. I hope I dont have the Pyram snails!

On a side note I saw my Scutus aka Elephant Snail out in the open yesterday so I snaped a pic of him. My Manderin was swiming right by him so it kinda gives you an idea on the size. Dont look at the fake coral either.... Its all going to living coral again when it gets fully stocked. I only have 11 frags right now...

September 28, 2012

Here is a pic I took yesterday of my closed up clams if this helps any... I will check sunday for the snails at night bacause I am going out of town today and saturday. I hope I dont have the Pyram snails!

On a side note I saw my Scutus aka Elephant Snail out in the open yesterday so I snaped a pic of him. My Manderin was swiming right by him so it kinda gives you an idea on the size. Dont look at the fake coral either.... Its all going to living coral again when it gets fully stocked. I only have 11 frags right now...

They appear to be somewhat open which may be a sign that something is irritating them ... could be anything really, only looking at it maybe at night would possibly tell.

I think I see shrimp antennae in the first pic ... are they getting on the clam?

I sure hope too that you don't have those Pyram snails, so when you check, because they are so small, you will have to look real carefully IME. Let us know what you find when you get back from your trip.

Wow that Scutus has gotten real big indeed ... it looks huge now ! I don't think that it will bother the Clams but you may want to keep an eye on it anyway, especially at night ...

Have a nice trip and keep us updated. Thanks.

Albert

September 28, 2012

Great for a FOWLR Tank ... Beautiful Fish Indeed

What a super looking fish ... pity they don't come small and are reef-safe :-(

Albert

September 28, 2012

Growth on my Leather Corals ... I posted about it yesterday

As I pointed out it would appear that it may be a boring sponge on the 2 head Leather, not entirely sure but that is what it looks like.

I removed most of the sponge from the back as there was a growth there as well, in addition to the small one on the top.

Here are some pics on what I removed looks like, taken on a black background, you can see the main "thing" and the white spicule which was embedded in the body of the Leather Coral ..

If anyone has any other suggestions than a Sponge do let me know ... Thanks

Albert

September 28, 2012

AEFW - Acropora Eating Flatworms

Here is a link to one of many articles on AEFW .... the real nasty ones that are often hard to "see"

I saw this statement well over a year ago. I wasn't too concerned, and thought it wasn't a big deal.

However, about a month ago, I discovered my favorite SPS coral was fading fast, the color literally leaving the coral more and more daily.

Staring at the coral, nothing looked wrong with it, other than it being faded. It was polyped out, and seemed to grow at the regular pace. Still, I was concerned.

Link: (contains lots of pictures)

http://www.melevsreef.com/aefw.html

Albert

September 28, 2012

On the Use of Vinegar (Acetate) and Cyanobacteria Growth

This leads to a discussion about the use of Vinegar (acetate) and its effect on cyanobacteria versus the use of other Carbon Sources.

Link:

http://tinyurl.com/95jcfho

Albert

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