THE OFFICIAL ASK ALBERT THIEL THREAD

[wombat]

Coral and Fish Photos from Jasmin Geier Marine (I)

 

© Jasmin Geier

 

 

Hey Albert, this is a photo taken by my coworker, Tim Wong, of a fish in my tank. Some person named "Jasmin Geier" did not take this photo. You can see the original here:

 

http://www.reefsmagazine.com/forum/reefs-m...ing-fishes.html

 

It really aggravates me when people steal photos to make a profit...

Edited September 27, 2012 by wombat

[albertthiel]

HELP!!!!

 

So I came home today and noticed both of my clams are closed up. I have never seen them

This way before. The only thing I did last night that was out of the ordinary is dose 120ml of "kent tech M Magnesium" as is said to do 1ml for each gallon of water. I have 120g display and about 10-15 in the sump. My magnesium yesterday was 1240 and today it's up to 1280. So the dose worked and is doing exactly what it is suposta do! My clams are still shut and I don't know what's wrong? Here are my parameters after just testing:

 

Mg: 1280

KH: 9

CA: 380

Temp: 78

Ph: 8.53

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: about 15-20

 

Is something drastically off here or are clams really sensitive to high doses of magnesium? I want to raise my mg to 1400 and my Ca to 450. Does that sound right? I'm confused???? I would also like to add that my one clown is snuggling up in in my larger clam but nver my smaller one. They stayed shut the entire time I was home last night and I never seen this happen before. I thought it is somthing maybe I dosed?

 

I do not think that the Tech M would have had that effect on your clams as you did not raise it by all that much from what I can see.

 

What I see though is that your pH is high at 8.53 and that your calcium may be on the low side (380).

 

Not sure whether that high pH is what you had before but it seems a bit on the high side IMO, and calcium may need to be raised somewhat.

 

The dKH of 9 should be ok unless you raised it suddenly from a lower level and that that increase is what the clams are reacting to.

 

You do not mention your PO4 level ... so I would assume that it is low (less than 0.03 ppm).

 

Did you perhaps change carbon or some other chemical compound also?

 

Although Clam do need nitrate, the level may be a little on the high side as well.

 

BTW do you have any issues with algae of any kind?

 

I do not think that the Clown is the reason for the Clams closing, it has to be another parameter and it may be the high pH and maybe the lower calcium.

 

You can adjust the calcium slowly but I would not raise the Mg too fast as you just raised it by 40 ppm yesterday. Let things settle down and slowly lower the pH with some water changes maybe or by adding some small amounts of carbonated water to the tank to lower it (but use small amounts at a time).

 

Let me have some more details on what you see happening this morning and maybe we can pin the reason down or maybe the Clams will adjust to the changed conditions and will open again.

 

Maybe you can post some pics of the clams so I can see what they look like (close ups would be best).

 

Hopefully this gives you some info on what to do but if you have more questions, feel free to post them of course.

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Hey Albert, this is a photo taken by my coworker, Tim Wong, of a fish in my tank. Some person named "Jasmin Geier" did not take this photo. You can see the original here:

 

http://www.reefsmagazine.com/forum/reefs-m...ing-fishes.html

 

It really aggravates me when people steal photos to make a profit...

 

Wombat:

 

I fully agree with you, and I don't get it sometimes what and why some people do to make themselves look better as is obviously the case here.

 

Do you want me to send her a note via FB to take that fish out of her listings, or alternatively give proper credit and give the correct attribution for the picture.

 

I just hope that some of the other pictures she shows don't fall in that same category (stolen from an article or another site).

 

Sorry but I had no way of course of knowing that it was not hers.

 

I did see the article via the link you gave and that is a great one.

 

Let me know what you want me to do and I'll take care of it.

 

Thanks for pointing that out ... and great looking specimen for sure.

 

Albert

[atoll]

Coral and Fish Photos from Jasmin Geier Marine (I)

 

© Jasmin Geier

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link: http://www.facebook.com/jasmin.geier.984

 

Albert

 

 

Hi Albert,

I am note sure you will be aware but the pic of the 2 Mandarins above you post is of a pair about to spawn. The smaller female on the left with the male on the right of course. I have seen the Mandarin's I have kept over the years spawn on many occasions at dusk under an actinic tube. The courtship is very beautiful with the male courting the female. When the female is ready he flutters his body alongside her and slightly lower than hers while they rise to just below the surface. At this point they both flip over with the female releasing her eggs and the male his sperm.

 

This happens just once that evening following which the female makes a quick exit from the scene. However the spawning continues over the next few evenings until the female has no more mature eggs to deliver.

 

These fish are pelagic spawners meaning they scatter their eggs into the oceans current then the eggs take their chances with the rest of the plankton no further input from the parents once the eggs are released. The eggs are difficult to see and are almost clear plus you have to be quick to spot them before they scatter.

 

Les.

Edited September 27, 2012 by atoll

[saltwatercoral]

I do not think that the Tech M would have had that effect on your clams as you did not raise it by all that much from what I can see.

 

What I see though is that your pH is high at 8.53 and that your calcium may be on the low side (380).

 

Not sure whether that high pH is what you had before but it seems a bit on the high side IMO, and calcium may need to be raised somewhat.

 

The dKH of 9 should be ok unless you raised it suddenly from a lower level and that that increase is what the clams are reacting to.

 

You do not mention your PO4 level ... so I would assume that it is low (less than 0.03 ppm).

 

Did you perhaps change carbon or some other chemical compound also?

 

Although Clam do need nitrate, the level may be a little on the high side as well.

 

BTW do you have any issues with algae of any kind?

 

I do not think that the Clown is the reason for the Clams closing, it has to be another parameter and it may be the high pH and maybe the lower calcium.

 

You can adjust the calcium slowly but I would not raise the Mg too fast as you just raised it by 40 ppm yesterday. Let things settle down and slowly lower the pH with some water changes maybe or by adding some small amounts of carbonated water to the tank to lower it (but use small amounts at a time).

 

Let me have some more details on what you see happening this morning and maybe we can pin the reason down or maybe the Clams will adjust to the changed conditions and will open again.

 

Maybe you can post some pics of the clams so I can see what they look like (close ups would be best).

 

Hopefully this gives you some info on what to do but if you have more questions, feel free to post them of course.

 

Albert

Thanks! I did change out my bag of Chemipure, I competly forgot I did that. Would that have a problem with the clams? I can get some pics later on today as I am at work now.

[atoll]

Hi Albert,

I have placed 4 of my Sympodium frags at various places around my tank the other 4 I intend to sell on to fellow reefers at about £8 a time approx $10 I guess. Here are a couple of pic's I have just taken showing the 4 remaining frags fully expanded now after acclimatisation in the DIY frag rack of mine.

 

Les.

[albertthiel]

Hi Albert,

I am note sure you will be aware but the pic of the 2 Mandarins above you post is of a pair about to spawn. The smaller female on the left with the male on the right of course. I have seen the Mandarin's I have kept over the years spawn on many occasions at dusk under an actinic tube. The courtship is very beautiful with the male courting the female. When the female is ready he flutters his body alongside her and slightly lower than hers while they rise to just below the surface. At this point they both flip over with the female releasing her eggs and the male his sperm.

 

This happens just once that evening following which the female makes a quick exit from the scene. However the spawning continues over the next few evenings until the female has no more mature eggs to deliver.

 

These fish are pelagic spawners meaning they scatter their eggs into the oceans current then the eggs take their chances with the rest of the plankton no further input from the parents once the eggs are released. The eggs are difficult to see and are almost clear plus you have to be quick to spot them before they scatter.

 

Les.

 

Thanks Les for that detailed explanation of what happens and how ... and yes when I saw the pic that I what went through my mind as well ...

 

I just hope that the pic is really hers and not one like what Wombat pointed out.

 

I have some more pics by her and am going to post them later, and if anyone thinks they are not hers they should let me know.

 

As I indicated in my reply to Wombat if he wants me to I will post a message on FB for her to rectify the attribution or to remove it from her photos.

 

On the Mandarins: great explanation indeed, it is unfortunate though that usually the eggs will be a meal for other fish in the tank if it happens in an aquarium where there are many other fish.

 

Have you ever been able to capture the eggs or is what happened what I described?

 

Thanks for the post. Great info.

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Thanks! I did change out my bag of Chemipure, I competly forgot I did that. Would that have a problem with the clams? I can get some pics later on today as I am at work now.

 

It could indeed be due to the fresh carbon in the bag, but I cannot be sure of that.

 

I would give it a little time and see whether they re-open.

 

On the pH: have they always been in that high a pH ?

 

Albert

[saltwatercoral]

It could indeed be due to the fresh carbon in the bag, but I cannot be sure of that.

 

I would give it a little time and see whether they re-open.

 

On the pH: have they always been in that high a pH ?

 

Albert

It s always been around that area throughout the day. Is that to high?

[albertthiel]

Hi Albert,

I have placed 4 of my Sympodium frags at various places around my tank the other 4 I intend to sell on to fellow reefers at about £8 a time approx $10 I guess. Here are a couple of pic's I have just taken showing the 4 remaining frags fully expanded now after acclimatisation in the DIY frag rack of mine.

Les.

 

They sure look like they are doing well Les. Fragging up that large colony must have taken you some time, as getting 8 out of them must have taken some careful work on your part.

 

But I guess you have fragged so often that by now you have it tap and under control and know exactly what and how to do it.

 

Thanks for the update ... now if you were in the US I would get one of them from you, but coming from the UK would be a bit stressful and involve a lot of paperwork ... :-)

 

Your tank is now going to have them all over the place and when they start growing and spreading I guess you'll be fragging some more and selling some .. btw Pounds 8 is more like $ 11 to 12 depending on current exchange rates :-) Good extra money though for more goodies !

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

It s always been around that area throughout the day. Is that to high?

 

I am not saying it too high, just that it is on the high side of normal but if it has been that way then all life forms probably adapted to it.

 

If you make any changes to it, say to bring it down to like 8.3 or 8.4, it needs to be done fairly slowly so nothing gets shocked.

 

Keep us posted will you ...

 

Also what were your PO4 readings, and are you seeing any algae anywhere ?

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

More from Jasmin ... Hopefully all hers ... (III)

 

© Jasmin Geier and Tropical Live Imports

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some of the pictures carry the Tropical Live Imports mark as you may notice.

 

Albert

Edited September 27, 2012 by albertthiel

[saltwatercoral]

I am not saying it too high, just that it is on the high side of normal but if it has been that way then all life forms probably adapted to it.

 

If you make any changes to it, say to bring it down to like 8.3 or 8.4, it needs to be done fairly slowly so nothing gets shocked.

 

Keep us posted will you ...

 

Also what were your PO4 readings, and are you seeing any algae anywhere ?

 

Albert

 

I haven’t checked my Phosphate lately because I have been letting my Phosban reactor do its thing. I will check when I get home and update you. No algae at all. My CUC has been doing a incredible job at keeping everything clean and keeping the sand white! Ill check my PO4 when i get home. Thanks Albert! You gotz some crazy knowledge my friend!

[atoll]

Thanks Les for that detailed explanation of what happens and how ... and yes when I saw the pic that I what went through my mind as well ...

 

I just hope that the pic is really hers and not one like what Wombat pointed out.

 

I have some more pics by her and am going to post them later, and if anyone thinks they are not hers they should let me know.

 

As I indicated in my reply to Wombat if he wants me to I will post a message on FB for her to rectify the attribution or to remove it from her photos.

 

On the Mandarins: great explanation indeed, it is unfortunate though that usually the eggs will be a meal for other fish in the tank if it happens in an aquarium where there are many other fish.

 

Have you ever been able to capture the eggs or is what happened what I described?

 

Thanks for the post. Great info.

 

Albert

 

 

Many years ago a friend of mine was studying marine biology at Liverpool university. I supplied him with eggs of my Mandarins as well as eggs of Centropyge argi the Cherub angelfish. He manged to bring a couple of each through to maturity.

 

Quite a coincidence as it was while at the London zoo seminar which you attended that I got talking to Martin Moe jnr and as you may know he was trying to breed and bring through flame angels. This was all pre internet days of course. Needless to say Martin was very interested in how my friend was able to bring through the cherubs as he was having difficulty getting his flames beyond a few weeks, food being the problem at the time.

 

My friend also bread Common clowns with a success rate of over 95% and used the sale of them to local LFS to subsidise his studies. I have recently got back in touch with Roy my friend who had the success and if I recall right he also bread some yellow tail blue Damsels.

 

Work again soon 4-30 to 10.30pm today.

 

Les.

[albertthiel]

I haven’t checked my Phosphate lately because I have been letting my Phosban reactor do its thing. I will check when I get home and update you. No algae at all. My CUC has been doing a incredible job at keeping everything clean and keeping the sand white! Ill check my PO4 when i get home. Thanks Albert! You gotz some crazy knowledge my friend!

 

Thanks for the kind words .. I appreciate it ... as to my knowledge .. well I am sure there are a lot of members on this forum who have just as much if not more.

 

This is truly one of the forum where a number of members have been keeping tanks for so long that they have accumulated it through practicing and observation, and participating in discussion ... but there is always more to learn ... in this hobby something new and unexpected can always come about, and the interaction of all the members often brings about the answers to whatever it is that needs clarification or an explanation.

 

But on to your tank ... yes do a test just so you know what the level is. Can't hurt. Good to read that you do not have algae problems which IMO would be an indication that the levels are low, and as you say your CUC's are taking care of whatever may grow.

 

On the Clams ... maybe they just need a little more time to get used to the changes in the water quality after the Tech M addition and the chemi pure you added.

 

Thanks for the update.

 

Albert

Edited September 27, 2012 by albertthiel

[eitallent]

My friend also bread Common clowns with a success rate of over 95% and used the sale of them to local LFS to subsidise his studies. I have recently got back in touch with Roy my friend who had the success and if I recall right he also bread some yellow tail blue Damsels.

 

Les.

Hello Les, Albert and readers.

 

Les, I just watched your YouTube video channel and enjoyed immensely. I subscribed. I especially liked your yellow coral goby series. Here is the link:

 

Albert, I agree with your opinion on fish for small tanks. I have a young Citron goby (Gobiodon citrinus). I feel he/she will outgrow my 12 gallon JBJ Nano. On the brightside, I will use him as an excuse to expand into a bigger tank (wishing for a 29 G). My husband is already enchated with him/her so he will be easy to convince. Who can resist the charm of such a character?

 

Ah, it will be a great Holiday season of shameless begging for tank equipment, corals etc.

[albertthiel]

Many years ago a friend of mine was studying marine biology at Liverpool university. I supplied him with eggs of my Mandarins as well as eggs of Centropyge argi the Cherub angelfish. He manged to bring a couple of each through to maturity.

 

Quite a coincidence as it was while at the London zoo seminar which you attended that I got talking to Martin Moe jnr and as you may know he was trying to breed and bring through flame angels. This was all pre internet days of course. Needless to say Martin was very interested in how my friend was able to bring through the cherubs as he was having difficulty getting his flames beyond a few weeks, food being the problem at the time.

 

My friend also bread Common clowns with a success rate of over 95% and used the sale of them to local LFS to subsidise his studies. I have recently got back in touch with Roy my friend who had the success and if I recall right he also bread some yellow tail blue Damsels.

 

Work again soon 4-30 to 10.30pm today.

 

Les.

 

Guess you are at work now so you'll probably read this when you get home .. don't work too hard :-)

 

Oh yes I am sure Martin was very interested in talking to your friend as Martin has raised and tried to raise all kinds and species of Marine Fish and has been successful at a good number of them.

 

Nice to read that your friend was successful at raising the Mandarins and the Flame Angels which are such nice specimens, but unfortunately not for our reefs.

 

 

Interesting that he may actually have been raising clowns before Martin did ... and I am sure they had a lot to talk about when they met at that Big Conference in London, where we all were ... good memories of that one for sure.

 

Thanks Les

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Hello Les, Albert and readers.

 

Les, I just watched your YouTube video channel and enjoyed immensely. I subscribed. I especially liked your yellow coral goby series. Here is the link:

 

Albert, I agree with your opinion on fish for small tanks. I have a young Citron goby (Gobiodon citrinus). I feel he/she will outgrow my 12 gallon JBJ Nano. On the brightside, I will use him as an excuse to expand into a bigger tank (wishing for a 29 G). My husband is already enchated with him/her so he will be easy to convince. Who can resist the charm of such a character?

 

Ah, it will be a great Holiday season of shameless begging for tank equipment, corals etc.

 

Thanks eitallent for posting the kind comments and a link to the U-Tube channel Les runs for his videos.

 

I'll have to take a look at all the ones that are there as I have not seen them all.

 

On your Citron Goby .. they do not get very large (about 60 mm or 2.3 inches max and in a tank they may not even get that big), so you may have to do some "hard selling" to convince hubbie to go for a 29 :-).

 

But women can be very convincing ... right ! So I am sure you'll end up with what you are wishing for.

 

Mine is in a 20 High and seems to have plenty of space to get around and rest on just about everything in the tank including my Candy Cane, Duncan, Leather Corals, Cabbage coral, Zoas, and Yumas. Never seems to be bothered by them.

 

I usually find him "sleeping" inside the Cabbage coral's funnel looking top part but as soon as I get close to the tank he comes to the front and hugs the glass probably thinking food is coming (and sometimes it does(

 

Here is a link to: Let's Clown Around With More Gobies: The Gobiodon Species

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-10/hcs3/index.php

 

Again thanks for the kind words and the post.

 

Albert

Edited September 27, 2012 by albertthiel

[albertthiel]

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Phosphorus: Algae's Best Friend

 

© By Randy Holmes-Farley

 

This article describes some of the issues around phosphorus in reef tanks, including the forms that it takes, its origins, ways to test for it, and most importantly, ways to export it.

 

Fortunately, there are some effective ways of keeping phosphorus concentrations to acceptable levels. Unfortunately, the means for testing for total phosphorus are not trivial.

 

One can readily test for one of the common forms of phosphorus in reef tanks, inorganic orthophosphate, but testing for organic phosphorus compounds is considerably more tedious.

 

Moreover, if there is an algae “problem”, then the algae may be consuming the phosphate as fast as it enters the water, masking the issue.

 

Consequently, reef keepers may not recognize that they have a phosphorus problem, only that they have an algae problem.

 

The issues with inorganic and organic phosphates ... and important distinction ...

 

Link:

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/9/chemistry

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Another view on Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium, and it's removal

 

© Randy Holmes-Farley and reefkeeping.com

 

This is an alternate analysis by Randy of the Phosphate issue many of us deal with. The previous post looked at it from one viewpoint, this is another one.

 

Link:

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php#3

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Today I removed this from one of my Leather Corals

 

The pictures are not very clear as they are not taken with a Macro Lens but it appeared as what looked like an air bubble on the top of the Coral, and when I put a baster to it, I was able to suck it out without any issue, it just came right off.

 

I wonder if anyone has every seen anything like it (I will do some searches on the Net as well) but it appears to be either a parasitic growth or a hitchhiker on the Leather of unknown ID

 

Here are some pictures (one is taken at regular size and the second one is an enlarged view)

 

 

 

 

If anyone has any idea what this may be do let me know ... Thanks

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Dinoflagellates .... Posted once before but reposted by PM request

 

Problem Dinoflagellates and pH

 

© Randy Homes-Farley and reef keeping.com

 

Dinoflagellates are widespread in nature, and vary considerably in their habits.

 

Some are free floating, photosynthetic organisms and are classic phytoplankton.

 

Others can become symbiotic photosynthetic organisms living inside corals, clams and other marine organisms (i.e., zooxanthallae). Some dinoflagellates are parasites on fish; still others are predators.

 

These are often larger than typical dinoflagellates (up to 2 mm long), and they move through the water consuming smaller organisms.

 

Some dinoflagellates are bioluminescent, and others release toxins (e.g., red tide toxins) that can travel all the way up the food chain to humans.

 

Previous articles on all types of dinoflagellates can be found here and here.

 

This article focuses on one other type of dinoflagellate that can become the nemesis of reefkeepers.

 

These are photosynthetic dinoflagellates that attach to surfaces. In some aquaria these gooey, snot-like masses of organisms can coat everything in sight, from the aquarium's walls to the corals it contains.

 

Not only are they unsightly, but they can smother other organisms and sometimes can kill from afar by releasing toxins into the water.

 

(The here & here in the previous to last paragraph are clickable in the actual article

 

LINK:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php

 

Albert

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

P.S. For your information, if you did not know, Randy Holmes-Farley has a BA in chemistry and biology from Cornell University ( 1982), and a PhD in chemistry from Harvard University (1986).

 

He has 57 patents, numerous publications and several awards in a variety of chemical fields.

 

In 1992 he helped start a pharmaceutical company (GelTex Pharmaceuticals). It was eventually bought by Genzyme where he now has the title of Vice President, Chemical Research. Randy is also the co-inventor of two commercial pharmaceuticals (Renagel and WelChol).

[albertthiel]

And an Article on Dinoflagellates, this one by Eric Borneman

 

© Eric Borneman & reefkeeping.com

 

Dinoflagellates - Predators, Pathogens, and Partners

 

Link:

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-05/eb/index.php

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Albert: this was a great post. It might be more helpful to people though if you created new topics instead of putting everything in this thread so that we can reply, ask questions, and follow to specific topics.

 

I bought some Phosphate-E and started dosing my tank a few weeks ago. I got a mandarin a few months ago, and I created an algae bloom with all the additional feedings, so I needed something to get everything back under control quickly. The guy at the LFS recommended Phosphate-E, and it seemed to have good reviews.

 

I run aluminum oxide (phosguard) and have since I first started the tank. I've tried GFO, but I found that the GFO exhausted more quickly in my system, so I switched back to the phosguard. I haven't noticed any ill effects from running both the phosguard and Phospahte-E to date. Do you think these are OK to have in your system together long term and are there any downsides to running both?

 

If you put in more Phosphate-E than your system has phosphates, how long does the Lantanum Chloride stay in your system and is it harmful? I find that a phosphate test is completely useless when your phosphates are really low, as the algae is consuming it, so it's difficult to know how much Phosphate-E you should continue to dose. I've been putting a capful into the system every couple days as I still have some algae, so I know there continues to be phosphates, even though my tests read around .03

 

Bluprntguy:

 

Your post brings up a number of topics, all very good one I have to say. Let me address them in order of your message:

 

Individual Posts per topic: I have given that some thought, and what I may do is create a topic and link it to this thread so everything is in one and the same place. I am also working on an index for this 200+ page thread but that involves a lot of work and takes time. I am doing a few pages every day when I can, and should be ready to post the first index (which I will then keep updating) of the first 25 pages soon. I will then keep adding to that index so that slowly but surely we get a complete index.

 

The idea of adding individual topics for each post is a possibility for those where more interactions is requested (e.g. I posted one for red slime algae the other day) and I can create more of those of course.

 

For informational ones and for links to articles I would keep everything on this thread, as based on the number of views I can tell that a lot of hobbyists do look at the thread but do not post as what they view may be a link, and they may then follow that link and read the content.

 

I have to find the right balance I guess between creating new topics and posting on this thread. Thanks for your suggestion.

 

On the use of Lanthanum Chloride:

 

Yes it will reduce your phosphate levels, and certainly the inorganic forms of phosphates and some claim that it will also lower organic phosphate levels but I have not been able to find a scientific or technical paper that clearly stated that it did. However there is quite bit of anecdotal evidence that it does.

 

The issue is the floc that is created when Lanthanum Chloride solution enters into contact with water (salt water in our case), as it reacts immediately with the phosphates that are present and creates a floc or particulate matter that is very very fine, and that based on all recommendations should be removed before it enters the tank so that the floc does not settle in the tank and does not get removed.

 

What has not been really established it whether any particulate that enters and settles into the tank poses an issue over the long term due to bacterial activity, which may re-release the phosphate into the water. As far as I have been able to determine no long term study on that has been done.

 

So what we are dealing with is: is organic phosphate removed, does particulate release phosphate over time, and if it does in what form (organic or inorganic).

 

Now of course the products that are on the market such as Phosphate-E are very diluted forms (dilution is not stated on the labels though), so reactions such as sudden clouding of the water that can happen when strong solutions are used is not likely to happen, unless one overdoses grossly.

 

If one follow the recommendations on the product label, overdosing is unlikely.

 

What happens however is that if you use the product for a certain amount of time, phosphate will be very low and the recommendation then is to switch to either GFO or an Aluminum oxide one for maintenance purposes.

 

What one would then do is use (in your case) Phosphate-E maybe once a week or once every two, and not use it every day, but leave the other phosphate removers in the system.

 

This would keep your phosphate levels at very low and usually undetectable levels.

 

The floc that is created is very small and it is usually recommended that it be trapped in a 5 micron sock to remove it and clean the sock as needed.

 

Since not everyone does that, some particulate will enter the tank anyway, and that is where cleaning the rock in the tank and the substrate comes in as one can siphon out the floc and other detritus in that manner.

 

Two approaches are suggested:

 

For the rock: blow off all sediment and detritus with a baster or similar and with good flow in the tank it will get trapped in the mechanical filters which then need to be cleaned after several hours.

 

For the substrate: use a "sand" or "gravel" siphon with a wide end so that large particulate and sand is not siphoned out but only the small particulate matter and the detritus that is lying on the sand or in the sand bed.

 

Doing so should keep most or the majority of the floc created by the use of the product out of the tank (just in case it would release the phosphate back into the water - but as I said I have not been able to determine whether it does that).

 

When using it follow the directions and do not overdose, and trap the floc or particulate as best as you can and then use the approaches I suggested for cleaning any particulate that may have gotten into the tank out of it.

 

Long post I know, but I hope I covered all your questions.

 

If I find more info on the topics I mentioned that I have not been able to find technical papers on, I will post them here.

 

Let me know whether you have any additional questions.

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Albert: this was a great post. It might be more helpful to people though if you created new topics instead of putting everything in this thread so that we can reply, ask questions, and follow to specific topics.

 

I bought some Phosphate-E and started dosing my tank a few weeks ago. I got a mandarin a few months ago, and I created an algae bloom with all the additional feedings, so I needed something to get everything back under control quickly. The guy at the LFS recommended Phosphate-E, and it seemed to have good reviews.

 

Here is a link to an article that appeared in CORAL magazine some time ago (in 2009) and that is not as up-to-date as some of the other information that is available, but it does give some good info nevertheless.

 

I still refer you to my previous message for how you should use the Phosphate-E

 

Link:

http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/foiling-phosphate

 

Albert