Lowest cost way to eliminate green hair, bubble, turf and slime algae

[JamesHL88]

Quick question. Are ATS typically run on opposite light cycle or 24/7. What effects does it have on PH in comparison to a traditional macro fuge?

[Floyd R Turbo]

They are typically run on reverse cycle and 18 on 6 off. pH effect is the same, so running them on a reverse cycle will help keep pH up at night.

[Srusso]

They are typically run on reverse cycle and 18 on 6 off. pH effect is the same, so running them on a reverse cycle will help keep pH up at night.

 

Yep, just what I was going to say.

[KerryL.]

Thats how I run mine to. Seems comparable to the fuge loaded up with chaeto I had a couple years ago. I never got up to check it at night either way but, there didnt seem to be any difference.

[herranton]

Thats how I run mine to. Seems comparable to the fuge loaded up with chaeto I had a couple years ago. I never got up to check it at night either way but, there didnt seem to be any difference.

Why not just use a refugium with chaeto then? Seems a lot easier than setting up a giant green waterfall in your living room.

[KerryL.]

Why not just use a refugium with chaeto then? Seems a lot easier than setting up a giant green waterfall in your living room.

Its just a little 6"x6" (inches) screen lit with LED's, its in a little tank why would I want it in my living room???

 

My Nano tanks have 2.75" x 5" screens. When they say water fall they are not talking huge Brother.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Sizing guideline as of Sept 2011 is 12 sq in (3" x 4") lit on both sides with a total of 12W (fluorescent) or ~6W (LED) (that's total for both sides) for each cube of food fed per day or equivalent thereof. Single sided is 2x the dimension with same total amount of light except all on one side. No more sizing to the tank volume.

 

You can also use 2x the amount of light and half the photoperiod, so run lights only 9 hours/day as long as all the light is 'captured' by the screen (this is why LEDs work so well)

[SantaMonica]

Do you have anywhere near the ratio of surface space on rock and sand per fish?

 

Much more. The vast majority of the ocean is rock-less and sand-less. Algae is 90 percent of all life in the ocean, except bacteria. If you google "microbial loop", you'll see this described.

 

why would you want a giant wall of green algae, when you can add an appealing macro algae.

 

Well, it shouldn't be giant. Too big, and it does not filter well. The new sizing guidelines are much smaller that the previous waterfall guidelines. But as for why a wall, it's because it will out-compete all other nuisance algae. But maybe most important is that this lone-screen is just for testing; the real designs that will be posted later will hide the screen, or actually make it blend in with the display. Or make it completely disappear.

 

hair algae is everywhere basically in the ocean

 

Almost totally true Actually it's phyto that's everywhere.

 

What effects does it have on PH in comparison to a traditional macro fuge?

 

I typically see a 0.1 or 0.2 pH increase when the scrubber lights are on.

 

Why not just use a refugium with chaeto then?

 

Because chaeto is not that strong of a filter. A scrubber, if in the same system, will treat the chaeto like nuisance algae and kill it.

 

a giant green waterfall in your living room.

 

I think you'll like next month's design; it's the first instance of a system that is useable but also a good bit better looking, for nano's.

[KerryL.]

I am looking forward to the new update!!

[HecticDialectics]

The person that talked about the TOTM has a 180G mixed reef. That is hardly a nano either. All of us here know what a nano is!! Anyway I never put NANO in front of TOTM anyhow.

 

RC TOTM without ATS: 109

RC TOTM with an ATS: 1

 

 

Hmmmm! lmao.

[KerryL.]

Glad you are doing your research HD!!! Now how many water changes does that TOTM get per year?? How much coral growth does it get? How fat are the fish? How happy are the fish and coral?

[jm82792]

I just let algae grow on my skimmer and hob filter outflow.

[HecticDialectics]

Glad you are doing your research HD!!! Now how many water changes does that TOTM get per year?? How much coral growth does it get? How fat are the fish? How happy are the fish and coral?

 

I don't really know and I don't really care. I assume it's somewhere in line with the other 109 TOTM that do not have an ATS. Somewhere between once a day and once a year water changes...perfectly happy fish and coral... OK coral growth. I mean, it's full of staghorns, that's not exactly rocket-science SPS-keeping.

 

I've certainly seen more impressive coral color and much harder to keep fish in non-ATS tanks. I'm not sure what a single one of those questions has to do with why I should set up some ridiculous Rube Goldberg-esque contraption for nutrient control that can be accomplished through easier, less complicated methods.

[brandon429]

Hectic not being sarcastic really I wish you'd list your method. I think I can summarize it pretty well.

 

You don't overstock corals quickly, you let the rock mature in a super clean tank to avoid mixing the typical cycling appearances with $$ corals, this is opposite of the common method of stock as fast as you can from sources you don't know as long as you can get away with no ammonia.

 

I noticed you keep your bioloading low for a while, so how long do you let the tank mature before you pack it in>?

 

 

I think your technique could be called a super patient method basically, is that the jist

[supernip]

RC TOTM without ATS: 109

RC TOTM with an ATS: 1

 

 

Hmmmm! lmao.

 

was that the tank that kerry chick linked above?

[KerryL.]

I don't really know and I don't really care. I assume it's somewhere in line with the other 109 TOTM that do not have an ATS. Somewhere between once a day and once a year water changes...perfectly happy fish and coral... OK coral growth. I mean, it's full of staghorns, that's not exactly rocket-science SPS-keeping.

 

I've certainly seen more impressive coral color and much harder to keep fish in non-ATS tanks. I'm not sure what a single one of those questions has to do with why I should set up some ridiculous Rube Goldberg-esque contraption for nutrient control that can be accomplished through easier, less complicated methods.

How are all these things like a skimmer, reactors, GFO, and the list goes on, be easier then a small screen you clean once every week or two and dose to keep your parameters in line as usual. You keep talking about methods but never say what they are. If you are going to preach you need to tell the sermon Sir!!! I use this method and it works and i have used the skimmer, reactor, and GFO ECT and those work to but its a lot more work and cost. With the scrubber you size the screen to what you need to feed or want to feed. You can even overstock as well because the scrubber will take care of the nutrients overstocking creates.

[supernip]

How are all these things like a skimmer, reactors, GFO, and the list goes on, be easier then a small screen you clean once every week or two and dose to keep your parameters in line as usual.

 

this is the dumbest question ever. you couldnt even put it in the form of a question.

[KerryL.]

I did not know I was back in the grammar/proper English forum. Either way, how is the scrubber more complicated then the other listed equipment?

[KerryL.]

Well, this weekends screen cleaning was a lot more volume but is still brown, no green growth yet. Maybe next weekend will show some green on the screen with this new UAS type build. I could have to much screen for my feedings as well but, with a new tank I was expecting a nutrient spike (which never happened) so I left the screen over sized. There was never evidence of a nutrient spike so I guess the scrubber soaked it up. I am using a DIY HOB (Millennium 3000) unit with a screen on each side of the filter so if its not green next weekend I will only be running one screen and see how that goes.

[SantaMonica]

OK some growth pics...

 

Floyd R Turbo:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rkyrickstr on the TF site:

 

 

 

 

Ruddybop on the MFK site:

 

 

 

Fishuntbike on the scrubber site:

 

 

 

 

 

And mine...

[HecticDialectics]

Why is your water so yellow that it looks like urine?

[patback]

Soo...many....contradictions.

 

How can ats be Able to treat chaeto as nuissance algae and kill it, yet the totm you linked says they need to cut the chaeto back regularly bc it grows so quickly.

 

How is cleaning that tangled looking screen easier than dumping a skimmer cup, and maybe once a year rinsing it out; dropping in some gfo and forgetting about it for weeks at a time,etc

 

Also, to the smartass who danced around my previous question... Why would you want all this crap when you can use attractive macros to do the exact same thing for cheaper.

[SantaMonica]

I did not link to a totm that had chaeto.

 

Is not easier than a skimmer. Is not harder. Is also not a real version. Is a test version. Nevertheless, you don't have to buy or have a place to put the skimmer, gfo, salt, etc.

 

Macro's are not very strong filters because of the self-shading, and weak flow. Plus they need a place to go. They do look nice though

[Amphiprion1]

Soo...many....contradictions.

 

How can ats be Able to treat chaeto as nuissance algae and kill it, yet the totm you linked says they need to cut the chaeto back regularly bc it grows so quickly.

 

How is cleaning that tangled looking screen easier than dumping a skimmer cup, and maybe once a year rinsing it out; dropping in some gfo and forgetting about it for weeks at a time,etc

 

Also, to the smartass who danced around my previous question... Why would you want all this crap when you can use attractive macros to do the exact same thing for cheaper.

 

Intentional or not, many seem to get testy toward this subject. Algae are just that--algae. They work and are incredibly efficient at what they do when given the appropriate conditions. The kinds that are encouraged to grow on scrubber screens are better than many others in various respects, as can be attested by aquarists with green lawns in their tanks. Beyond that, providing optimal growth conditions is easier than with macroalgae and can be done with less light overall due to growth habits, medium, form, etc. This is part of what SM was hinting at.

 

Every system is different in many respects. Will an scrubber alone always be enough or always be practical by themselves? No, reasonably speaking. But they do dramatically lower N and P together (and better than many common methods) and it will be difficult to argue differently. Since systems are different, some may do better with some additional C removal, etc. There may even potentially be issues with metabolites and excretions, but the same potential issue is present in many decorative algae (and not just Caulerpa). If a tank just doesn't have that "touch" or "edge," there are too many variables to simply conclude "the scrubber is yer problem."

 

FWIW, as a disclaimer, I still think protein skimmers have their uses and shouldn't canned unconditionally. I run mine off and on as I see the need. But a skimmer does something different than a scrubber, algae, or seagrasses, anyway.

 

Lastly, and this is more of a somewhat off topic small rant than anything else, but the TOTM argument is complete bunk. It is a poor argument, period. As much as I respect 99% of the aquarists featured on TOTM, it has engendered a false, sometimes outrageously contrived (absurdly expensive?), standard for aquaria. While I certainly do appreciate a giant, breathtaking aquarium and enjoy mine when they are at their (unnaturally) cleanest, that isn't what I strive for in my tanks nor my intention to start with. Though in the minority, I'm not entirely alone in that thought. Some of the most humble (sometimes crappy looking by some standards) tanks I've seen have had some of the healthiest, longest-lived animals. Contrast that with many TOTMs that go completely downhill in under 5 years, but look exceptional at the time of writing. I can't count how many times my sense of value in the hobby has been turned upside-down by someone's innocuous, cheap-ass tank with some unexcitingly common, but extraordinary inhabitant(s). It has put me to shame on enough occasions to make me change how I view aquarium-related things entirely. It makes me think sometimes, "if one can't appreciate the animals doing what they do best without being wickedly tricked out somehow, then how much does it take to be satisfied?"

 

Well anyway, /rambling /semi-rant. For those interested enough, flame away.

[brandon429]

After the pics above I was interested in how the mat concentrates on the plastic mesh. Thats sick how the green mass just sticks to the bubbled mat and apparently not on the tank sides so far. Now what would further impress me is to see a one year test of just this method in any given tank to show it will concentrate the algae there and not all around. Its pretty slick how it likes the bubbled, high flow area. In aquaculture this tends to be the lowest carbon dioxide area (highest laminar upflow) its interesting plants would congregate there. Great pics. It also dawned on me in some areas caulerpa is illegal- if you can grow your own waste binder by seeding from the usual reef items thats at least something free.