Lowest cost way to eliminate green hair, bubble, turf and slime algae

[lowlevel]

We had a lot of green hair algae all over the back of the tank and the top of the live rock that I assume was getting too long for our trochus snails to keep up with... we added a blue tuxedo urchin (his name is Velcro) and took out a little bit of the algae by hand( maybe 10% of it ).. and he motored through the rest of it before the next water change.

[brandon429]

The greatest challenge in nano reef algae control is making consistency across tanks

 

Everybody has a method that works but few are repeatable. Even stand bys like cuc members, phosphate stripping won't produce consistent results or everybody would just do x

 

One good way to prove or disprove a thread is to set up the test and try to disprove it. We call the alternate armchair quarterbacking

 

Personally I have no judgment across varying methods of tank control, every squirrel is trying to get a nut

 

There are some similarities between ATS and peroxide threads when people actually run the methods, that's a good point. It might be fair to say a huge number of posters report back with pics of success

 

 

Same ends, two different means

[jedimasterben]

Low cost way to eliminate algaes? Buy a molly and drip it overnight into saltwater. Buy a pair of them and also have free food for everything else.

[herranton]

I think you are missing the point. Both ATS and peroxide work just fine. No one is saying they don't. A while back, the OP was suggesting that we all hang 2x4 foot hair algae panels on our walls to keep our picos in tip top shape. It would probably work great, but no one really wants a giant ugly gha panel hanging on their wall. As far as peroxide goes, its just funny to watch people push it so hard and get all bh when someone disagrees.

 

To be totally honest, I think that the OP is trolling the entire online reefing community.

[supernip]

I think you are missing the point. Both ATS and peroxide work just fine. No one is saying they don't. A while back, the OP was suggesting that we all hang 2x4 foot hair algae panels on our walls to keep our picos in tip top shape. It would probably work great, but no one really wants a giant ugly gha panel hanging on their wall. As far as peroxide goes, its just funny to watch people push it so hard and get all bh when someone disagrees.

 

To be totally honest, I think that the OP is trolling the entire online reefing community.

 

or delusional. why would you be surprised at either?

[Fnard]

To be totally honest, I think that the OP is trolling the entire online reefing community.

 

Or to try and find someone to buy his product. Boy, for $650 I hope it gives me a reach around too.

[Bongo Shrimp]

Or to try and find someone to buy his product. Boy, for $650 I hope it gives me a reach around too.

 

Lol sorry thats a joke.

[Jacobnano]

Here we go again....

[joshik]

The chemistry is the same as bigger tanks, of course, however the previous waterfall versions were basically impossible to install on a nano.

 

i have a waterfall ATS in my biocube 29 and its working great!

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=299435

[Aquanist]

My point of ATS not being well suited for nanos is just that its bulky and with small water volume it is just easier to change water to export nutrients while adding beneficial minerals.

 

It's just that there comes a point with larger tanks where water volumes needed for same percentage change would just be too ridiculous. There ATS would work fine as a part of nutrient export. Buying an ATS unit? No effing way! The thing is simple enough by design to construct in 15 minutes with the money we all have lying somewhere under our sofa seats .

[KerryL.]

QUOTE (KerryL. @ May 1 2012, 08:54 AM)

I have scrubbers on my three SW nano 10G's. Just last year I made one for my 40G SW because of the success I had with them. I bashed them for years too. I thought they were junk and no good as well. So I guess I have eaten a little crow as I have just made one for my 150G SW tank a couple weeks ago to. After doing SW for better then a couple decades I have learned that there is a few many ways to run a SW tank. Everyone has their preference and way of doing it. The important thing is that the way that they use works for them. I like to have knowledge about the hobby even if its something I do not use.

 

 

QUOTE (supernip @ May 1 2012, 08:57 AM)

really? thats supercool. thanks for finally coming out of the woodworks after decades in the hobby to vouch for this method. and it's your first post to boot!

 

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

 

post count 1, creditably count 0

 

Yes, it is my first post here. My post clearly shows it was the first one I have made here, everyone could tell that. Did you post that to rub something in?? I am sorry its my first post but there was no option to start with a higher number! I just thought I would comment on my experience with a scrubber and share my background with it and the hobby. Seeing I have 3 nano reef tanks this seemed like a good place to join. I had no idea I was going to get such a warm welcome. I am glad I didn't say that I replaced all my T5's and MH bulds with LED's because I like to use them instead of the traditional lights. Good thing I didn't mention I did DIY builds on all the LED fixtures too. Are certain things not welcome for comment here or is it a kick the new guy for talking about how he sets up his tanks.

I am normally on the LaReefClub forum and also frequent the MyFishTank forum as well.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Hello to all! Some of you may recognize me from a few other forums, I'm the one who wrote the "Algae Scrubber Basics" summary posts. Of course most of the people that Algae Scrubbers have been useful for are for larger tanks or nanos with sumps, so I haven't been on here pretty much at all, maybe just to read a post here or there linked from another site.

 

So yes this is my first post here and I have no credibility whatsoever.

 

I guess a couple comments right off the bat, yeah there's this whole firestorm in the past with the Mega Powerful threads yadda yadda. You know I've read many of those and actually after reading them, I realized that the core concept of the idea was what really mattered.

 

I've read all the people raining fire and hail down saying you'lll have this problem or that problem or this is why it shouldn't be done, and quite honestly, almost every single point that I have ever seen made that is negative against algae scrubbers stems from assumptions or conclusions of the past. In the last 3 years, there has been a great deal of evolution and understanding about why the waterfall type scrubber works so much better than all over types from before. Leaps in understanding have occurred about how growth substrate, roughness, flow rates, etc. In lighting alone - proximity, spectrum, sources, photoperiod - all have had some kind of advance, some great and very eye-opening.

 

Over the last couple years, I cannot count how many people I have seen that tried a scrubber and have since reported that it has changed their entire outlook on the hobby. Many have been on the verge of giving up on their tank, whether that be just that the maintenance was taking too much time, they had trouble keeping corals, kept having to buy more and more equipment to solve this or that problem...again, more helpful of a solution for non-nano tanks, since a PWC on a nano is much easier to handle.

 

My personal experience? 20 yrs+ FW experience. I started reefing because I bought a tank from someone about 2-1/2 years ago who couldn't fit it in their house, but had one in his office. But he was not happy with his maintenance company. So I decided to check it out. Long story short, established 125 reef tank with N>160 and overstocked, after a few months of himming and hawing I took over maintenance and within 2-3 months I had N=0 via PWCs/skimmer/socks/purigen. Then I came across the Mega threads, 10/10/10 started one on it and haven't looked back. In the 18+ months since then I have done 1 PWC (before the screen 'ramped up') not counting the 2 I had to do when the tank cracked and I had to move the entire contents twice in one week, then again 6 months later when they got a new 144g tank. N and P are under control, never have had any algae on the rocks, and I spend literally 1 hour per week on his tank every Friday afternoon. There is absolutely no question in my mind that this method does everything that is purported to do when done right, hands down.

 

So I come from the background of knowing nothing about algae scrubbers, so learning about it from the Mega threads. Therefore I had no preconceived notions to bias me either way. I simply read something that seemed to make perfect sense, then watch a series of sometimes quite humorous bashing go back and forth but yet everything still made perfect sense. Also I noticed that in the last year or more, not a whole lot of bashing has been taking place. Instead, a whole lot of embracing has been taking place.

 

brandon429, I have noticed that you seem to be a voice of reason on here. I read a few of your comments on the other threads (from links on this thread). I also have had much discussion via e-mail, PM, and many very long phone calls with SM. My conclusion was the same - he's a smart guy, very good scientist type, highly analytical. While, on the forums, I can't say that I was in 100% agreement on everything he posted, the vast majority of the time his points made sense to me and were backup up well.

 

For anyone reading this, you will notice that there is a lot of remnants of the past coming to the surface. Read the other threads on this forum (linked to previously) and look at the well thought out responses from people like brandon429 or a few others that at least are willing to comment on the concept and have a level headed discussion. My take on all of these forums is that it should be a place to go to find help and spread useful information. Yeah you have to watch out for people spreading bad information, but usually that's some guy that tried something that worked for him and told someone else to do it while not taking into account the whole system and could make the problem worse, or someone with a complete lack of understanding of something trying to tell someone else who also has a complete lack of understanding about the same thing how to do it right. This is not the case here. If there's anyone that understands how algae works and how it can be used as a filtration friend instead of enemy, it's Santa Monica.

 

So if it's not for you, if you think that it will epically fail and people's systems will crash and burn because of it, then just sit back and watch and wait. I get that you are sick of hearing from the guy or whatever you are obsessing about but seriously, let it go man! This is just one solution among many. I mean really, what do you do if you are a big fan of turbo snails or whatever, sit on here and camp out hitting 'refresh' looking for any opportunity to tell someone how turbo snails solved your whole problem, while at the same time saying this won't? I just don't understand that mindset. Whatever happened to just leaving a thread alone that you weren't interested in or didn't think was for you?

 

Oh yeah and since I had to read this disclaimer when I joined

 

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violation of any law.

 

BTW "violation" was spelled wrong on that page page (might want to fix that, autocorrect caught it when I was creating this post after I copy/pasted it over)

 

some of you on here I feel should not only be ashamed at the outright insults that you've thrown out, but should be cited for violating policy on certain vulgar, hateful, defamatory comments you have made. I get it. You don't like SM. Move on. Start another thread about how much of a DB you think he is. Make an "I hate Santa Monica" thread.

 

Or you could do something really cool like start www.ihatesantamonica.com and start your own forum about how much you hate Santa Monica. That would be awesome and cost you only time and a little money that you would never get back, on top of only fueling negativity and giving you absolutely no satisfaction except a warm fuzzy feeling that you were not alone in your quest to hate Santa Monica! What a deal! Sarcasm much? Yeah, I know how to use it too. I feel so much more cool now that I laid out that sarcasm. Now I also feel much better about myself, yet...strangely less mature. Dang, I guess I know what it feels like to be on the giving end. See now that's what you shouldn't do, but here I am doing it. Hmmm. I guess it's human nature to be a jerk every now and then.

 

I just had to throw some humor in there. That's just me. Anyways...

 

Let us who actually have used this method and helped countless others with various issues of all sorts just continue doing that for those that wish to learn more about it or try it.

[supernip]

I got lost after page 1 of your reply

[KerryL.]

ok so read the first paragraph, and it looks like your not actually solving the problem, just getting it off your rocks.

Thats why I built my first water fall scrubber was to get the Algae off the rocks and substrate. It seemed to take a couple months for the hair algae to stop growing on the rocks and to only be contained on the screen. I thought it was great to have the algae only on the screen and to be able to feed heavily without the worry of algae growing. Then to boot I no longer had a N and P issue. Cleaning the screen is nothing like the chore of cleaning the LR.

[patback]

Bottom line.... Keep your tank the way it should be kept, and you will have no algae. Bam... Life's mysteries are solved. Give me a damn medal and close the thread already.

[nibor]

@ Floyd R Turbo

 

If you go and read the first 120 posts or so of this thread you will see the issue people had with Santa Monica. You will also see that there was very little "raining fire and hail", more qualified scientists trying to start open debate. Santa Monica's could only resort to openly admitting to putting them on ignore.

 

"scientist type" "his points were backup well" Really?

[Doompie]

@ Floyd R Turbo

 

If you go and read the first 120 posts or so of this thread you will see the issue people had with Santa Monica. You will also see that there was very little "raining fire and hail", more qualified scientists trying to start open debate. Santa Monica's could only resort to openly admitting to putting them on ignore.

 

"scientist type" "his points were backup well" Really?

 

In the mean time it has been 4 years and many experiences and experiments later..On other forums people do try this and see it working, and as floyd legally brings forward, many people show beautiful results. In the mean time this new concept came up, which is being tested and seems too work too, and in my case add's extra performance to the waterfall.

 

So in my opinion it's a bit shortsightedness too burn a method because it's presented in a way or by a guy you have personal issues with..

 

There are many other roads which lead to Rome as they say here..which certainly counts in this hobby.

 

Algae filters (the old dutch method) goes back a long time, so that algae work for reefs has been proven many times.

Scientist run so called microsm systems which are also algae scrubber a-like based...think about the reason why they choose that over bacteria driven methods for research purposes..

Optimizing algae performance with the waterfall method was a real break trough in the algal filter method. There are just some pre-conditions which you have take into account.

Many off them are pluses, and " feel" very weird for reef aquarist, because it's 180 degree different from what they are doing for years. Like heavy feeding and no water changing..

 

I came across this method as an software engineer.I kept reefaquaria since 2009, so not that much experience. But also I did not have a real bias, and try to keep my mind as open as possible. I did a lot of reading researches about algae, and how they act in nature, what they do and what they don't .. found that there is even more unknown about algae than known.

 

After starting the tank, many theories where proven. And some findings are really interesting. Like rich macro life, and things like the (food) solve ability of the tank is just incredible.

A big plus I think is that algae are more controllable, and the status is physically visible.

 

Algae are called primary producers for a reason..

[HecticDialectics]

Oh look. Another person that just registered whose only post is commenting in this thread...

 

[Lalani]

Apparently SA is getting better at using proxies.

I find this amusing though. :popcorn:

[HecticDialectics]

Dude's officially psychotic

[Floyd R Turbo]

Get a life guys. I have thousands of posts on other sites, mainly regarding scrubber and acrylic fabrication, almost all of them answering questions for people who are making or troubleshooting their scrubbers. This version is very nano friendly so I figured what the heck, I'll hop on here and do the same now that there is one that could be applied to nanos much more easily. I have helped countless people with their systems and tried my best to help explain things where I could without overstepping my knowledge and making things up that I wasn't 100% sure about, 'cause like most people I have a day job and don't have time to sit and read thousands of studies and articles on subjects, so I just do what I can.

 

All you Debbie Downers on here can do is make fun of people, post worthless junk, and belittle people based on their post count. What is this, high school?

[supernip]

so it is a shill?

[Pickle010]

so it is a shill?

 

^ meet Debbie

[nibor]

In the mean time it has been 4 years and many experiences and experiments later..On other forums people do try this and see it working, and as floyd legally brings forward, many people show beautiful results. In the mean time this new concept came up, which is being tested and seems too work too, and in my case add's extra performance to the waterfall.

 

So in my opinion it's a bit shortsightedness too burn a method because it's presented in a way or by a guy you have personal issues with..

 

Who is burning a method? Nobody who knows anything about keeping reef aquaria is going to dispute that culturing and harvesting algae strips nutrients from the water column. How can I have personal issues with someone I have never met? All most of us want to see is evidence to back up the claims. Maybe, after more than three years, some of those original questions can now be properly answered?

 

There are many other roads which lead to Rome as they say here..which certainly counts in this hobby.

 

Algae filters (the old dutch method) goes back a long time, so that algae work for reefs has been proven many times.

 

If by "the old Dutch method" you are referring to the Dutch Mini-Reef as described by George Smit; his system also advocated the use of ozone, a large skimmer and something akin to a trickle filter in addition to a stock of Caulerpa. This has more in common with cultivating macro algae in a refugium than an ATS.

 

Scientist run so called microsm systems which are also algae scrubber a-like based...think about the reason why they choose that over bacteria driven methods for research purposes..

 

Do you have any links to these "microsm systems" so we can see what you are talking about?

 

Optimizing algae performance with the waterfall method was a real break trough in the algal filter method. There are just some pre-conditions which you have take into account.

Many off them are pluses, and " feel" very weird for reef aquarist, because it's 180 degree different from what they are doing for years. Like heavy feeding and no water changing..

 

There are other systems that have similarly proposed heavy feeding and no water changing, Jaubert springs to mind for one. Jaubert also proposed a system which required no addition of calcium or alkalinity and still offered vigorous hard coral growth. I have been in this hobby for a quarter of a century, my first saltwater tank used an air powered undergravel filter, two T8 tubes and no live rock. Fear of change has nothing to do with it. Ideas come and go in this hobby and these ideas should be subject to criticism, especially when driven by the desire to sell products as per the previous Santa Monica threads.

 

I came across this method as an software engineer.I kept reefaquaria since 2009, so not that much experience. But also I did not have a real bias, and try to keep my mind as open as possible. I did a lot of reading researches about algae, and how they act in nature, what they do and what they don't .. found that there is even more unknown about algae than known.

 

After starting the tank, many theories where proven. And some findings are really interesting. Like rich macro life, and things like the (food) solve ability of the tank is just incredible.

A big plus I think is that algae are more controllable, and the status is physically visible.

 

Sounds like you enjoy your tank and at the end of the day that's all that matters.

 

Algae are called primary producers for a reason..

Again, all that was asked of Santa Monica was evidence to back up the claims. When evidence was not forthcoming but the claims continued, it was inevitable that ridicule would follow. Maybe now he can back up those claims with some hard evidence.......

 

So much for the Honey Badger. Lol.

[HecticDialectics]

so it is a shill?

 

did you not read the first post? lol Santa Monica writes like he just got out of Marketing 101