3 Foot Long Nano

[Scorched]

I won't ever get close to 1500. That is what the pump is rated at with zero head. With my plumbing and various 90 degree bends plus the dual reactor being Teed off I probably get 700-800 would be my guess.

 

Im going to do something very similar to yours but using the same JT slotted screens I have. One screen will have half of the slots filled in on the top. This will be the siphon side. The other screen will have the bottom filled in to create the surface skim and take the extra trickle. 1" valve will be on the siphon side right before the sump to control drain speed. All the extra plumbing parts show up Thur-Fri so I can probably do some more testing over the weekend.

[Beer]

It really is a 2.0 build. Everything is being transferred over and the old stand/tank is being removed. Purely an upgrade on the equipment and maintenance side. I'm sorry if people were hoping it was going to be something grander than that.

No need to apologize to us, it's your tank.

I was interested to see what would come out of this based on what I have seen from your other tank. I'm sure this will continue to impress when it gets stocked.

[Michael_Price]

How soon are you thinking you'll be moving the tank over? Looks like your almost ready!

[Scorched]

How soon are you thinking you'll be moving the tank over? Looks like your almost ready!

 

Within the next month or two I'd imagine. I'm in no rush. The original 3D model I created for the stand is already over a year old

 

Plumbing adjustments this weekend for sure. After that I need to work on my dosing setup for this stand as well as a new light hanging solution. My current tank has the light on tall metal legs. I'd like to go back to having a light suspended, the ceiling at the office is probably 15' high and is plaster. So I need to use the cubicle walls to hold a non permanent bracket.

[Scorched]

New plumbing fixed... in the noise department. It a little crazy and dangerous so please read along and copy at your own risk.

 

For a benchmark here is the duo durso setup. Now this is very similar to my current tank so I have no idea why the noise is 20X louder than at work. If I had this tank at work I would seriously piss a lot of people off and it would drive me insane just as fast.

 

I tried altering the down spouts and amount of flow coming from the pump. This setup used slotted spouts to help release air bubbles and I had the pump dialed back to 60-70%.

 

 

Tons of noise and overall, unusable in my eyes. So a change needed to happen using what I already had. I decided to turn it into a Herbie with a few customizations.

 

Due to both drains being at the same height and drawing water equally into the bulkhead I hard to start with the strainers. I needed one to draw from the bottom to be used for the siphon side and the other needed to have just the top open to take in the trickle.

 

The first attempt at using moldable plastics didn't go so well.

 

 

The next attempts used tape on the backside and very slowly filling one row at a time until it was completely filled and then reheating the entire bulkhead again in hot water to smooth it out as best as possible.

 

 

Siphon Side

 

 

Trickle Side

 

 

1" valve added to control siphon side. There were also some modifications done to the bulkheads as the enter the sump by making them super short like the ones used on my display tank. This allows for an air gap to happen on a slotted down spout and is easier to make adjustments.

 

 

While adding the valve I had to remember to put TWO union couplings on the tiny pipe that connects the valve to the sump unions. One for the union and one for the valve facing in opposite directions. When gluing the fittings together the I only put on ONE!! Shoooot! To fix this and reclaim my valve union I had to cut the pipe apart, put the fitting underneath a drill press with a 1" bit and drilled out the now crappy piece of pipe. It took a lot of clamps and fine adjustments to make sure I only removed the pipe and didn't compromise the fitting. Once it was cleaned up I redid this section with the union couplings back in place. I created some fancy easter basket plastic orange shredding in the process

 

Here is the Herbie setup installed and running. This video has not been muted as you will be able to hear my wife's cat a few times during the video and proves how quiet the setup now is. Any slight trickle will be muffled even more with the sock cover in place and the doors closed.

 

 

There is no emergency in this setup and I understand the risks. I will go the main safeguard I've impliemted already and others I could do in the future. The main is power failure. When the power goes out the water will drain until it hits the siphon drain holes. This causes the tube to be filled with air. When the power is restored this drain can not form a siphon fast enough to prevent the display tank from overflowing. To stop such events from occuring the Apex has a virtual switch created called

POWER_OUTAGE
Set OFF
If Power Apex Off 720 Then ON

The return pump has this code

RETURN_PUMP
Fallback OFF
Set ON
If Output POWER_OUTAGE = ON Then OFF
If FeedD 720 Then ON

What this does is when power is off nothing runs like usual. When power comes back on POWER_OUTAGE turns on and stays on for 12 hours. This causes the return pump outlet to also go OFF for 12 hours. In that time I have to manually restart the siphon or turn the pump outlet off manually from Apex Fusion until I can get into work. I will be alerted when the power goes off and comes back and have time to respond. The Feed D option allows me to restart the siphon within the 12 hour window after power failure and not have POWER_OUTAGE override my change for 12 hours.

 

A future tank upgrade might be to have an optical sensor at the rim of the tank that will decrease flow or shut off the pump if the water level rises too high during running operation. The trickle drain though has been tested to take on 10-15% more power above the quietest running level. As it climbs higher above the slats on the emergency it causes increased noise and will let me know if I need to make adjustments.

 

 

[Michael_Price]

An optical sensor would be a nice upgrade, I don't think I've seen that on a tank, would be pretty cool to have a system that maintains its own water line!

 

By the way, do you keep a lid on your tank? I have seen some of your pictures have a Midas Blenny, Royal Gramma, etc. Don't have any jumping out issues?

[Scorched]

An optical sensor would be a nice upgrade, I don't think I've seen that on a tank, would be pretty cool to have a system that maintains its own water line!

 

By the way, do you keep a lid on your tank? I have seen some of your pictures have a Midas Blenny, Royal Gramma, etc. Don't have any jumping out issues?

 

It maintains its water line very nicely, the sensor would just be for a freak accident. The only way it would get out of hand would be some sort of catastrophic failure on the siphon side, and right now thats just power loss which I've accounted for. The trickle side can take quiet a bit of fluctuation in normal running scenarios I've tested. Such as filter media clogging in the reactor or partial object stuck on the screens.

 

The current tank does have a lid. Its just a window screen kit with a black frame. Its always on during the weekends and I put on each night when I leave. I take it off in the morning so I can look at the tank in its nice sexy rimlessness all day.

 

[holy carp]

Out of curiosity, does a siphon form more quickly if you close the valve on the siphon side a little bit more? I'm guessing the problem comes from the air trapped in the u-turn at the top, but don't know the best way to get that air to get pulled out. If you close the valve a little bit, that might get the water to back up to a higher level in the drain tube to be able to re-prime the siphon.

 

Otherwise, perhaps removing one more strip of your tape to allow more flow through the strainer might get it going faster.

 

Is your return pump variable speed controlled by your apex? If it ramps up more slowly, would the siphon start up automatically?

[Scorched]

Out of curiosity, does a siphon form more quickly if you close the valve on the siphon side a little bit more? I'm guessing the problem comes from the air trapped in the u-turn at the top, but don't know the best way to get that air to get pulled out. If you close the valve a little bit, that might get the water to back up to a higher level in the drain tube to be able to re-prime the siphon.

 

Otherwise, perhaps removing one more strip of your tape to allow more flow through the strainer might get it going faster.

 

Is your return pump variable speed controlled by your apex? If it ramps up more slowly, would the siphon start up automatically?

 

I tested the strainers with tape covering the slots to start. These were the best levels during my initial tests. If I exposed another one on the drain it was high enough to suck in air. These finished covers have been filled with hard plastic. If I closed the valve more it does restart it faster but leaving it at that level isn't really a good option as I then have to lower my pumps speed by a considerable amount or leaving it at the same speed and a more closed valve would overflow the display or raise the water level high enough that it covers 2-3 slots on the trickle side and anything higher than 1-2 causes more noise.

 

Right now if the pump is off and the siphon is completely broken I completely open the valve and remove the slotted cover. This fills the pipe with water and as soon as I put the cover back on and dial the valve to the 1 oclock position the siphon starts without me having to adjust the pump or return valve. I can do this within 5 seconds. Untouched it takes over a minute and there would be a lot of water on the floor.

 

Right now the pump has a ramp up feature but it ramps up too quickly. It can go from 0 gph to 75% power (just over 1000 gph) in 10 seconds. This is built into the Jebao and isn't controllable through apex. I still would like to get the COR pump when its released by Neptune. I'd hope that something like a controllable power up feature would make all of these things a nonissue. Adding a program into the pump that would make the ramp up take a full minute or two would be enough time for the siphon to restart itself on its own each time. Until then I think I've worked out how to make it work for me.

[holy carp]

As long as that Apex code makes it fail-safe for now, it sounds pretty good. I'm guessing you don't get power failures too often.

 

BTW, did you know your tank image is shown on http://www.reeftrends.com/

 

I was surprised, since they are based in NY/NJ, and you're nowhere near their service area.

[natalia_la_loca]

When you scroll all the way down to their actual work, it's easy to see why they stole other people's pics for the display section of their crappy website.

[Scorched]

As long as that Apex code makes it fail-safe for now, it sounds pretty good. I'm guessing you don't get power failures too often.

 

BTW, did you know your tank image is shown on http://www.reeftrends.com/

 

I was surprised, since they are based in NY/NJ, and you're nowhere near their service area.

 

None that I know of. Its really rare to have a power outage downtown Minneapolis. Our building also has battery backup or generates for our computers and servers which I could tap into if I really wanted to.

 

WTF!! They did not build or service my tank in anyway. The 160 Elos tank is also a local friend of mine that takes lots of pictures and works with Ecotech. I know he didn't have his tank built or serviced by them either.

[no694terry]

This is my favorite tank on NanoReef

[Scorched]

This is my favorite tank on NanoReef

 

Awwww thanks no694terry!

[Scorched]

Updated the plumbing last night by lowering the valve as low as it could go and shorted that down spout a smidge.  This seemed to help my siphon start speed.

 

Before it would rarely start on its own and I would have to open and close the drain valve to purge the air bubble that would become trapped.  Now I can leave the valve at the correct position for matching pump speed and it would form the siphon on its own.  It still takes too long and left unchecked would overflow the display but I'm getting close.  My next test will be simulating a very slow soft start.  Right now the DCP-5000 has a soft start built in but it goes from 0 - 75 in about 10 seconds.  In apex there is a soft start option for pumps that interface with it.

 

 

My goal with the COR or other APEX capable pump in the future would be to include a 2-3 minute ramp from 0 - 75 so that the siphon has enough time to purge all its air before the pump is going full blast.  In my inital tests I let the pump ramp up at its default rate.  Once the water is nearing the rim of the tank I would close the return line valve and let the tank sit at 98% full.  From the time I started the pump until the siphon was fully started it took around 1:30-1:50 seconds.  A longer ramp would hopefully let the tank restart automatically every time after power outages or even feedings.

[Scorched]

Going to share something embarrassing that happened hoping that others can learn from my mistake.  But it lead to a cool discovery.

 

My tank drain system is basically a herbie with one drain being a siphon and the next being a trickle.  95% of the water goes down one drain and the other 5% goes down the second.  The other drain can handle fluctuations but can not handle the same volume of water that the siphon side can.  To prevent overflows due to power outages I created some Apex code which I posted before.

POWER_OUTAGE
Set OFF
If Power Apex Off 720 Then ON

The return pump has this code

RETURN_PUMP
Fallback OFF
Set ON
If Output POWER_OUTAGE = ON Then OFF
If FeedD 720 Then ON

If power failure happens the first set of code tells the pump to not turn on for 720 minutes (12 hours).  This gives me time to reset my siphon manually and prevent water on the floor.

 

Well it had its first unsimulated test on Wednesday.  In the middle of the night we had a very slight snow storm that had maybe 1-2 inches.  This is nothing and should have caused no issues.  But for whatever reason at 7:50am (Long after the snow storm stopped and 10 minutes after I left to drop my daughter off at day care) I get an alert on my phone that says the Apex has lost a connection to Fusion.  This could mean the router went offline or the power went out at the house.  I never got an update that it was restored so I figured it was just network wifi issues at home and went to work like normal.  If my code should have worked it would stay off until 7:50pm and I would have time to restart everything if needed.

 

I get home from work and see the return pump is still pumping away and the siphon is going like normal.  Must have been wifi issues.... Nope.   The carpeting is slightly wet and there is a small puddle on the granite top.  In my dumb stupidity I had the Return_Pump set to ON on my dashboard rather than AUTO.  ON overrides all code you have setup and this failed to keep the pump turned off.  The siphon and system however was running just fine and as I was dabbing up the water with a tower I noticed very little of it was actually on the floor.  Maybe 1/8-1/4 gallon.   It then hit me that I can do something so incredible easy to solve my overflow issue.

 

LOWER THE WATER LEVEL IN THE RETURN CHAMBER

 

If the pump can't physically pull any water there can't be any to overflow the display tank rim.  This is what happened after the power failure but there was just a little bit too much water in the sump.  I've found the absolute maximum amount that will make the system work every time without any code or interference from me.

 

In this video I used feed mode rather than unplugging the Apex or return pump but shows how the system restarts itself and doesn't overflow.

 

 

[Scorched]

Ordered some Dosing and Top Off containers to match the sump.

 

 

Now what should the 2 part doser be?  Two BRS 1.1ml dosers?  Neptune DOS?  And what would be a good top off system?  Right now I use a BRS 50ml doser on a timer so I could use that again.  Matched with the Two 2 part dosers would look fairly organized.

 

Also any ideas on how to make the dosing better location wise?  I created the layout of the sump thinking it would be dripped into a fairly high flow area.  And it is if I remove the black sponges, however that creates the waterfall of noise Im really trying to avoid.  If I keep the sponges in place and the dosing connections are already there how could I get the dripping somewhere with more flow?   

[Arkayology]

Go with the DOS. The BRS dosers are OK, but you will have to replace them within 2 years because they will start to slow down IME. I loved the DOS when I had my tank up. 

[Scorched]

44 minutes ago, Arkayology said:

Go with the DOS. The BRS dosers are OK, but you will have to replace them within 2 years because they will start to slow down IME. I loved the DOS when I had my tank up. 

Welcome Back!

 

Is the $300 worth it for a nano tank?  Im not doing auto water changes and will only be doing 10-20ml of 2 part a day.  

How was the noise level when dosing?

It seems to hold a fairly good resale value, only losing maybe $50 or so even after a year or two of use.  Its hard to find used ones.

[Justind823]

That's some clean and sexy plumbing, I wouldn't want to put doors on the cabinet! 

 

I have to agree with Ark. I've been using BRS dosers for a little over a year now and I recently noticed that one of the dosers has increased it's dose to 1.7ml... 

 

$300 is a little hard to swallow for just two dosers but how could you not go with the Dose when your whole setup is the Apex team colors? Then again, it's not my money. 

[Arkayology]

1 hour ago, Scorched said:

Welcome Back!

 

Is the $300 worth it for a nano tank?  Im not doing auto water changes and will only be doing 10-20ml of 2 part a day.  

How was the noise level when dosing?

It seems to hold a fairly good resale value, only losing maybe $50 or so even after a year or two of use.  Its hard to find used ones.

The way I look at it is that in a small tank stability is even more of an issue than in a larger tank. The DOS is pretty accurate IME, so it isn't wasted on a nano since you can get even doses spread out throughout the day. If you have the cash, I wouldn't hesitate on buying one. I will be buying another once I am in a position to set up another tank. 

[holy carp]

DOS is a huge unit.  So consider if you can afford the space, not just the price.  

 

Where do you order custom acrylic things like those dosing containers?  Did you design them in CAD and send the specs somewhere?  Or did you just create a graphic?

 

And is that baffle creating a lot of noise because you lowered the water level in the return pump section to avoid overflowing?  I'm not sure what those mini bulkhead connections are like, but in my sump, I used some rigid airline tubing heated over a flame to bend it in order to drip in a different area.  You might be able to attach something like that there if you need to move the dosing location.

[Scorched]

10 minutes ago, holy carp said:

DOS is a huge unit.  So consider if you can afford the space, not just the price.  

 

Where do you order custom acrylic things like those dosing containers?  Did you design them in CAD and send the specs somewhere?  Or did you just create a graphic?

 

I've decided to not use the mounting board and am going to mount everything directly to the cabinet and use wire tracks and clips to keep those organized.  This frees up a lot of room on the right side.  I would most likely mount the DOS on the right directly above the containers.  If I mount it on the back wall it then becomes difficult to remove the return pump as the Dos is 5" deep.  It may need to be in my hands to fool around with placement.

 

The containers are being made by ZeroEdge, same company that built the sump.  They were kind enough to alter their sump to my specifications before.  Once I knew what I wanted for the ATO and 2 part containers I sent them specs and they were able to quote me something fairly comparable to containers on the market.  These will however fit perfectly and match which is always worth a little more.

 

I built those in Autodesk Maya (Same company that does AutoCAD and 3DMax)  I use Maya for work so its really easy for me to design something before I create it for real.

 

These were some of my early designs for the 2.0 build

 

 

Which eventually matured into this.  This mockup was altered further when I actually had the plumbing parts in hand as things never quite lined up like I thought they would, but it was close.

 

 

[pappadumplingz]

Man this tank is looking sick. If I'm gonna upgrade, defs gonna do a 12 long.

[Marc.The.Shark]

Good job buddy! Glad you got the siphon issue resolved. I have noticed that my Jebao pump ramps up pretty fast to full bore, although not an issue for me. It has lost a little umph over the last 6 months tho, not horrible, but probably time for a cleaning. I think the 6 month mark will be my cleaning schedule & swap out the SCWD for cleaning/vinegar bath.

 

If you're looking for an ATO, I'd have to recommend the AutoAqua ATO Micro. Mine is awesome, keeps level very stable, small adds multiple times throughout the day. Optical sensor is always spot on, never had an issue and I've had it about a year now.