Mr. Microscope's Cube 2.1

[Mr. Microscope]

My lfs has a theory that because it is found at different depths it all needs different light levels, thats why you tend to see different tanks dominated by only one type of coralline. I saw a site offering some branching coralline recently and now I can't remember where... bothering me.

Interesting idea about depth. I saw that branching stuff too. Can't remember the site either..

[Mr. Microscope]

My banded trochus have been getting busy! I'm 90% positive this is not a collonista snail. It's definitely conical in shape and has the extra spider leg like features that the larger ones have. This little guy is only like 1-2mm!

 

Also, got a fun shot of one of my clowns tonight. They've been more skittish lately and have really been into the BTA's. This one likes to hide in between the nems. It's really cute how it pokes it head out.

Peek!

[Sk8n Reefer]

Very interesting. I do have somewhat intense lighting. I found my first patch of coralline about a week ago on the bottom of the tank glass. It is in a shaded area. hmm You're right, corals don't use Mg, but Mg is what allows us to keep high levels of Alk and Ca. I think dosing and maintaining weekly should be fine.I'm doing in the morning before I leave for work and again around 8pm (so, about 12 hours apart). Last night after testing, I left the tank at 9dKH and 420ppm Ca. This morning I added 30mL each of Alk and Ca. Today, I tested at about 7:30pm and my Alk was down to 7.2 and Ca was 410-415. The total today ended up being 60mL Ca and 85mL Alk!

 

That's a large amount- I see a similar swing when I test at night- are you considering getting a doser to reduce the swings? Your range is getting fairly high- have you thought about Kalk additions in your top off?

[FlowerMama]

oh that's so cute! love that shot.

[markalot]

You're right, corals don't use Mg, but Mg is what allows us to keep high levels of Alk and Ca. I think dosing and maintaining weekly should be fine.

I'm doing in the morning before I leave for work and again around 8pm (so, about 12 hours apart). Last night after testing, I left the tank at 9dKH and 420ppm Ca. This morning I added 30mL each of Alk and Ca. Today, I tested at about 7:30pm and my Alk was down to 7.2 and Ca was 410-415. The total today ended up being 60mL Ca and 85mL Alk!

 

 

Stop testing calcium, concentrate on Alk only. You will start a racing condition by dosing unequally when trying to stabilize both at the same time.

 

Only test Alk, same time every day.

Dose equal parts of your two part to maintain Alk, dose at least 10 minutes apart in a high flow area to ensure mixing.

Make sure Mg is staying above 1300.

 

Once Alk is stable start testing Calcium to see what it's doing, but don't make any changes until after a few days of testing. Unless you are using a custom mix, like BRS, I stand by my statement that dosing of each 2 part should be dead equal and as long as it's equal it will be impossible to throw the tank out of whack.

 

[owenj]

Love your clowns. And I finally bought some trochus from uniquecorals, man, those things do good work! I ordered 5, got more like 50 but they're all the size of a pinhead. They need to give you royalties on the sales

[Mr. Microscope]

That's a large amount- I see a similar swing when I test at night- are you considering getting a doser to reduce the swings? Your range is getting fairly high- have you thought about Kalk additions in your top off?

I know, I am a little worried that I'm getting too much of a swing.

I do have kalk and tried it for a couple weeks, but I'm doing manual top offs and depending on the amount of evaporation I get, the amount of kalk will vary too much. For example, during the summer months, I was losing about a half gallon/day. During the last six weeks or so, I'm going through maybe a gallon/week. Kalk can be dangerous if not used correctly and I definitely can't use it correctly at the moment.

 

oh that's so cute! love that shot.

Thanks first! This morning, my two clowns were snuggled up together in that same spot sleeping.

 

Stop testing calcium, concentrate on Alk only. You will start a racing condition by dosing unequally when trying to stabilize both at the same time.

 

Only test Alk, same time every day.

Dose equal parts of your two part to maintain Alk, dose at least 10 minutes apart in a high flow area to ensure mixing.

Make sure Mg is staying above 1300.

 

Once Alk is stable start testing Calcium to see what it's doing, but don't make any changes until after a few days of testing. Unless you are using a custom mix, like BRS, I stand by my statement that dosing of each 2 part should be dead equal and as long as it's equal it will be impossible to throw the tank out of whack.

 

That's how I started by trying to get a hold of Alk. Then, though testing I realized that Ca was dropping at about the same rate. For a week or so, I was only dosing 30mL of each and was able to keep up with parameters. I've been slowly raising the amount as I've noticed parameters dropping. My plan was to try to keep them the same, but last night it seemed like Alk was particularly low. So, I had to dose a little more than Ca.

 

I am using BRS BTW. I've only been keeping track of Mg once a week. Do you think I should pay better attention to it? I try to maintain it at 1350-1380. Though, it's usually around 1320 after a water change.

 

Do you think I'm throwing off these numbers by dosing incorrectly or do you think my severe drops are due to coral uptake? I thought dosing should be pretty straight forward (loss and replace consistently). I'm worried that I'm missing something in my dosing knowledge and my corals are going to suffer from Alk swings.

 

You will start a racing condition by dosing unequally when trying to stabilize both at the same time.

Could you elaborate on this concept a little? This may be the missing piece of the puzzle for me.

 

Love your clowns. And I finally bought some trochus from uniquecorals, man, those things do good work! I ordered 5, got more like 50 but they're all the size of a pinhead. They need to give you royalties on the sales

Thanks Jaime! Pinhead sized?! Mine were pinky nail sized and I thought those were small! They must be running out. lol! Yeah, I'd wouldn't mind taking a 10% cut on snail sales (or free frags).

[Sk8n Reefer]

Ya- great point on the evaporation rate- mine has gone similar with less evaporation.

[Jstn]

I love finding baby trochus snails, another reason they are worth the extra money.

[Mr. Microscope]

"I love the smell of polyp extension in the morning."

 

I love finding baby trochus snails, another reason they are worth the extra money.

I wasn't sure they'd breed in my small volume. I'm glad they are because I've lost three already.

[markalot]

Could you elaborate on this concept a little? This may be the missing piece of the puzzle for me.

 

Alk dosing will drive down Calcium, Calcium will drive down Alk. They are all interrelated so if you make a mistake and go out of balance the condition will become worse, requiring a bigger correction, which will make it worse, etc. The best way to approach it is to first get Alk stable for week and then monitor calcium to make sure it's staying in range. Calcium will drift but it will probably settle out where it wants and stick. Unless it goes below NSW levels or above 550 or so I would not worry.

 

You're using Kent so Calcium should tend to run higher but fall between water changes. I'm not sure I would dose to keep calcium elevated.

[Mr. Microscope]

Alk dosing will drive down Calcium, Calcium will drive down Alk. They are all interrelated so if you make a mistake and go out of balance the condition will become worse, requiring a bigger correction, which will make it worse, etc. The best way to approach it is to first get Alk stable for week and then monitor calcium to make sure it's staying in range. Calcium will drift but it will probably settle out where it wants and stick. Unless it goes below NSW levels or above 550 or so I would not worry.

 

You're using Kent so Calcium should tend to run higher but fall between water changes. I'm not sure I would dose to keep calcium elevated.

So, you recommend:

1. Ignore Ca and only test for Alk at the moment.

and

A. Only dose for Alk (yes, Ca does go up a little after water changes)

or

B. Dose same amount of Ca as Alk according to Alk testing.

???

 

2. What about Mg testing? Right now, I'm doing it just weekly.

 

 

Thank you for your input Mark!

[markalot]

So, you recommend:

1. Ignore Ca and only test for Alk at the moment.

and

A. Only dose for Alk (yes, Ca does go up a little after water changes)

or

B. Dose same amount of Ca as Alk according to Alk testing.

???

 

2. What about Mg testing? Right now, I'm doing it just weekly.

 

 

Thank you for your input Mark!

 

 

B. Dose same amount of Alk and Ca according to Alk testing. NOTE: I do not use BRS but instead a balanced 2 part (C-Balance). It would probably be wise to test both Alk and Ca just before dosing either but don't react to Ca unless it's critical.

 

Weekly Mg testing is fine IMO, if it's hardly dropping then maybe every 2 weeks or monthly even. I'm bad at not testing Mg and I was adding Mg weekly and drove mine up to 1600

[Mr. Microscope]

B. Dose same amount of Alk and Ca according to Alk testing. NOTE: I do not use BRS but instead a balanced 2 part (C-Balance). It would probably be wise to test both Alk and Ca just before dosing either but don't react to Ca unless it's critical.

 

Weekly Mg testing is fine IMO, if it's hardly dropping then maybe every 2 weeks or monthly even. I'm bad at not testing Mg and I was adding Mg weekly and drove mine up to 1600

Thank you! I'll try that.

My Mg seems to drop pretty fast.

 

1600!? Eep! Was everything okay?

[markalot]

Thank you! I'll try that.

My Mg seems to drop pretty fast.

 

1600!? Eep! Was everything okay?

 

I suppose. My Alk rose quite a bit due to me changing Kalc and not backing off dosing, so multiple things went wrong at once and I have a few upset acros, but nothing horrible.

[4x5]

Agreed with Mark. I've always dosed equal parts of Alk and Cal (Seachem Fusion 1 + 2) - at one point Cal was usage was a little higher so I'd just manually dose it back to where I wanted if it got a little low and continued dosing 2 part equally. Mag levels were all over the place for a few months as well but now everything stays stable.

[Mr. Microscope]

Agreed with Mark. I've always dosed equal parts of Alk and Cal (Seachem Fusion 1 + 2) - at one point Cal was usage was a little higher so I'd just manually dose it back to where I wanted if it got a little low and continued dosing 2 part equally. Mag levels were all over the place for a few months as well but now everything stays stable.

Thank you for chiming in with your experience 4x5. You're skills with SPS are amazing. Hopefully, I can get a grip on things soon.

[4x5]

I'm no guru thats for sure. I'm still really new at this stuff but that was my experience, I remember being frustrated as hell not knowing why things bounced around so much and one day it all just stopped. So cool. I think sometimes we have too much information and we complicate things. You're on top of things, everything will be stable with time.

[Mr. Microscope]

B. Dose same amount of Alk and Ca according to Alk testing. NOTE: I do not use BRS but instead a balanced 2 part (C-Balance). It would probably be wise to test both Alk and Ca just before dosing either but don't react to Ca unless it's critical.

I'm no guru thats for sure. I'm still really new at this stuff but that was my experience, I remember being frustrated as hell not knowing why things bounced around so much and one day it all just stopped. So cool. I think sometimes we have too much information and we complicate things. You're on top of things, everything will be stable with time.

Hmm...been doing some reading:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/

 

I think this is the key that I was missing:

Balanced Calcium and Alkalinity: (as per Randy Holmes-Farley)

360 ppm to 0 dKH

370 ppm to 1.4 dKH

380 ppm to 2.8 dKH

390 ppm to 4.2 dKH

400 ppm to 5.6 dKH

410 ppm to 7 dKH (natural seawater)

420 ppm to 8.4 dKH

425 ppm to 9.1 dKH

430 ppm to 9.8 dKH

440 ppm to 11.2 dKH

450 ppm to 12.6 dKH

460 ppm to 14 dKH

 

I've been trying to maintain dKH of 9.0 and Calcium of 420ppm which are not balanced. I think I'm going to shoot for the 9.1 and 425 balance tonight and then follow Mark's advice of only adding Calcium according to Alkalinity 1:1.

[Mr. Microscope]

So, Mg was down to 1320 when I tested tonight. I boosted that back up to 1400.

 

Alk dipped to 7.0. I didn't feel comfortable raising it back up to 9 tonight. So, I only brought it up to 8.4 dKH. I figured raising more than 1.4 was just too risky.

 

Ca dropped to 400. So, I brought it up to the complimentary 420 of 8.4dKH.

 

Starting tomorrow, I'll only dose Ca based on Alk. Hopefully, the raised Mg will help to level things out so they don't swing so much.

[jedimasterben]

Hmm...been doing some reading:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/

 

I think this is the key that I was missing:

Balanced Calcium and Alkalinity: (as per Randy Holmes-Farley)

360 ppm to 0 dKH

370 ppm to 1.4 dKH

380 ppm to 2.8 dKH

390 ppm to 4.2 dKH

400 ppm to 5.6 dKH

410 ppm to 7 dKH (natural seawater)

420 ppm to 8.4 dKH

425 ppm to 9.1 dKH

430 ppm to 9.8 dKH

440 ppm to 11.2 dKH

450 ppm to 12.6 dKH

460 ppm to 14 dKH

 

I've been trying to maintain dKH of 9.0 and Calcium of 420ppm which are not balanced. I think I'm going to shoot for the 9.1 and 425 balance tonight and then follow Mark's advice of only adding Calcium according to Alkalinity 1:1.

Keep in mind that these are not exact numbers, and magnesium does play a role in keeping these consistent. A higher magnesium level means that you can further supersaturate with more cal or alk.

[markalot]

So, Mg was down to 1320 when I tested tonight. I boosted that back up to 1400.

 

Alk dipped to 7.0. I didn't feel comfortable raising it back up to 9 tonight. So, I only brought it up to 8.4 dKH. I figured raising more than 1.4 was just too risky.

 

Ca dropped to 400. So, I brought it up to the complimentary 420 of 8.4dKH.

 

Starting tomorrow, I'll only dose Ca based on Alk. Hopefully, the raised Mg will help to level things out so they don't swing so much.

 

Don't raise Alk by more than .5 KH, and even that amount scares me. I'd like to hear input from people more experienced than me but I can see color loss if Alk changes by 1 KH in less than a day.

 

Keep in mind that these are not exact numbers, and magnesium does play a role in keeping these consistent. A higher magnesium level means that you can further supersaturate with more cal or alk.

 

Also keep in mind most salts don't have this balance. When I was using Kent I measured 9.5 KH and 550 Ca, which is obviously way out of "balance".

[jedimasterben]

Don't raise Alk by more than .5 KH, and even that amount scares me. I'd like to hear input from people more experienced than me but I can see color loss if Alk changes by 1 KH in less than a day.

 

Also keep in mind most salts don't have this balance. When I was using Kent I measured 9.5 KH and 550 Ca, which is obviously way out of "balance".

+1 all of this

[Mr. Microscope]

Keep in mind that these are not exact numbers, and magnesium does play a role in keeping these consistent. A higher magnesium level means that you can further supersaturate with more cal or alk.

Yes, I did a lot of searching yesterday and found lots of info on balancing Ca and Alk, but couldn't find the corresponding Mg levels. I know I've seen a calculator or table out there somewhere with Mg figures. Do you have any good links or know a forumula? The closest I could find was a statement from someone saying Mg should be 3x desired Ca in ppm (420ppm Ca = 1260ppm Mg, etc.), but that seemed a bit low to me. I also kept reading where people raised Mg to 1400ish and stopped having dramatic swings.

 

I'm excited to get home today and see where Alk is. I hope it hasn't sunk down to 7 again.

 

 

Don't raise Alk by more than .5 KH, and even that amount scares me. I'd like to hear input from people more experienced than me but I can see color loss if Alk changes by 1 KH in less than a day.

 

 

 

Also keep in mind most salts don't have this balance. When I was using Kent I measured 9.5 KH and 550 Ca, which is obviously way out of "balance".

EEEP!!!!

 

and..

 

Yes, I've noticed that Kent seems out of balance as well. hmm.. what salt are you using now?

[markalot]

 

Yes, I've noticed that Kent seems out of balance as well. hmm.. what salt are you using now?

 

 

I use a mix of Seachem Reef and RC, probably moving to all RC soon. My requirement is that I can buy them in a box with individual packages I can move without hurting my back. This limits me to IO, RC, Kent, and Seachem.

 

I really like the speed that Kent mixed at, I don't see a need for you to switch. I didn't have a good reason to switch away from it and I will probably switch back at some point. My only complaint was the bags inside the box were sometimes broken while RC and Seachem use thicker higher quality bags. Not salt quality related.