LED Aesthetics: What do you really think of your color?

[Machupicchu]

Im going to have to agree with blaster. I think people try to over-complicate it too much. I have made several lights with NW RB combo and they look identical to most 16-20k halides and grow about the same, and to me that is the point. You have a light that looks and grows like a halide with all of the benefits of LED technology. So if your trying to keep it simple just go with neutral XM-Ls and XT-Es.

 

I started the thread, however, because i am picky, so back on the subject of AESTHETICS, I did recently visit a buddy of mine who i had previously built a light for with a 2:1 NW CW and a 3:1 RB B combo and i do have to say i like the color a little better(more red and orange). I have seen red in lights and honestly i think people get placebo effect and think it makes a difference but to me it's annoying, there is plenty of red in NW LEDs. I think i might incorporate B and CW into my next build in small amounts instead of bothering with colors that make almost no noticeable difference and (off subject) reduce overall PAR.

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

Im going to have to agree with blaster. I think people try to over-complicate it too much. I have made several lights with NW RB combo and they look identical to most 16-20k halides and grow about the same, and to me that is the point. You have a light that looks and grows like a halide with all of the benefits of LED technology. So if your trying to keep it simple just go with neutral XM-Ls and XT-Es.

 

I started the thread, however, because i am picky, so back on the subject of AESTHETICS, I did recently visit a buddy of mine who i had previously built a light for with a 2:1 NW CW and a 3:1 RB B combo and i do have to say i like the color a little better(more red and orange). I have seen red in lights and honestly i think people get placebo effect and think it makes a difference but to me it's annoying, there is plenty of red in NW LEDs. I think i might incorporate B and CW into my next build in small amounts instead of bothering with colors that make almost no noticeable difference and (off subject) reduce overall PAR.

 

Just add the Blue that is probably what is making the major difference, you just dont want to add too much blue.

[CarrillXXP]

So I am just trying to play catch up, lol flipping through 50 pages of thread is becoming tedious and glimpsing at everyones results is pretty intriguing.

 

What the trend for LED's has mainly become, is that LED fixtures should start to offer a "full" spectrum of light that appeals to all color pigmentation's found in various corals because this is more eye pleasing and offers more growth? (correct me at any given moment) And to test this you guys have been keeping an eye on chlorophyll's A and B (I would think A would be more of the concentration) when testing different light combos and have examined color variance with different spectrums by photograph?

 

BUT there has been issues thus far with affordability (violet/uv), color blends, different LED colors, and their quality. It is also difficult to photograph LED's.

[blasterman]

(correct me at any given moment

 

You're kinda close, but we really need to dispense with the term 'full spectrum' because it really has no practical analogy in the reefing world other than marketing departments (unless you are actually running plasmas). All the popular fluorescent and halide combinations, including LED, have extreme peaks and valleys to get maximum growth and the 'glow' we want.

 

This thread originally started from the complaints regarding the standard 'cool white / royal' LED combination delivering good growth but dull coloration in particularly softies and LPS. I solved a big chunk of the problem by using neutral white LEDs with their far greater component of orange/red/yellow and compensating with a greater degree royal blue. Net result was a 'look' closer to some of the more balanced halides out there and likely an improvement in PAR. We've gone off on several tangents since then, but everything kind of orbits back to the neutral:RB ratio of 2:1 -vs- cool white:RB of 1:1.

 

One thing we dicsovered along the way is that slight variances in the wavelength of blue produce rather astounding differences in subtle actinic colorations of orange and red. 455nm to 460nm for instance produces the same amount of PAR, but the longer wavelength (460nm and greater) causes oranges and red colors to pop significantly more than 455 (or shorter) wavelengths wihich primarily works on actinic greens. This is why some higher end LED lights now have multiple colors of 'blue', but it's tricky to get both in the mix. Too much longer wavelength blue and yoru tanks starts look too much like a bottle of windex while coral grows just fine.

[Adam_T]

In all honesty, I hate the color providing by AI SOL / AI Nano fixtures....I use an AI Nano over my Elos Mini. The look is far too icy-blue based, even when I have the whites up relatively higher than the blues. Hopefully I will enjoy my lighting better once the WARM WHITE version of the AI Nano comes out....

[DaveFason]

I guess I will add my two cents for new findings I have found along the way. As many of you know I have built quite a few units now. From 1-1 ratio to 3-1 ratio. When it comes down to it here is what I have found to be SPOT on to any T5,MH set up.

 

13 LED

3 NW

3 CW ( Warmer Bin )

4 Royal Blue

2 Blue

1 Deep Red

 

You can double the amounts as you go up in counts but you get the point. Using a 2:1 ratio of RB:NW is great and for some people just fine. What I found is that it can look to "dark" to the eye. Adding a warmer bin CW will "brighten" the look and looks MUCH better to my eyes as well. Along with the 2:1 ratio you will sometimes think, " is this purple? ".

 

Color Shadowing - Keep it in the clusters helps. What I found to really set your set up apart is lowering your pumps in your tank. What I mean is not aiming them at the surface level. The smoother the surface is the better the color will look. I have lowered my Vortechs and added a powerhead to my sump aiming upwards to replace the surface agitation from the DT. It is nearly impossible to keep the disco effect under control with a crazy amount of surface agitation on your DT.

 

Deep Red - KILLER. Still to early for me to say it promotes any extra coral growth or color but I can tell you it adds something to the tank. Almost like a Fiji Purple does for the T5 rigs. I was a hater on 620 red but this new deep red ( Rebel/Osram ) in the 660 range is a step forward.

 

UV - who knows and honestly who cares. The LED's are NOT efficient and you might as well buy a PC UV bulb. As well they are extremely expensive.

 

Of course many do not have the choice to choose the bins. With many LED suppliers they are buying multiple cut tapes and are completely different binning. This plays a HUGE factor for people doing a DIY build.

 

Also keep is close! Cluster the LED's. It will make or break your LED build.

 

Hope this helps some.

 

-Dave

[AnthonyPf]

Dave, this is almost the exact setup I am running on my DIY LED DX12.

I really feel the 660nm red has made a difference. As you state above it is still too early to tell if the red will be effective but MAN! it sure looks nice.

 

The combo of NW, CW, RB and blue really give the blend needed for the best look and superior growth.

 

Thanks for all the research Dave. It was many of your posts that helped me choose my lights.

[Naturalreef]

I have the AI SOL Blue and the Nano and am very pleased with the color they put out. Since owning both fixtures I have been able to control my color temps from 6500k to 20000k and with 1% increments using the controller I can get even better color than any MH, PC bulb I have ever had. I never had to worry about a windex look to the fixture unless I turned my SOL Blue to max power and fried my corals.(unless you have them hung 2 feet above the tank)

 

The Nano has some pretty powerful White XM-L's and I can tone the blue's down with no problem and still have great PAR. Sincere question(go easy)... with a controller and CW, B, RB, can you not get the same or better color as MH,PC bulbs?

[blasterman]

I was a hater on 620 red

 

Same here. Tried it- found that 620's combined with the strong green in neutrals produced a puke yellow. Duh - learned that one in grade school color theory. 620nm is great for growing house plants though.

 

660nm doesn't convince me from a growth perspective, but for color I say go for it. Curious what 660nm combined with just CW does, or if you tried it. Bypass the entire amber / yellow spike in neutrals being my goal.

 

On the other end, I'm holding Cree at their word and want to try multiple Bins of XT-Es and see if that fixes the blue problem. If we can get a mix of royals at about ~455nm to 462~465nm we might be able to ditch standard blues completely. Still having trouble finding the spread of Bins in XT-E's though.

[DaveFason]

Yea, the 660 looks killer. Like whoa

 

I have not tried using just the CW w/ 660 but using the NW/CW with the 660 is killer.

 

I only use Rebel ES now and the RB SMOKES anything out there. I can add less RB and it works just as well.

 

Any updated photos of your tank blaster?

 

-Dave

[Deleted User 6]

nice white.

 

[CarrillXXP]

Yeah Dave your fixturea are kicka$$ I talked to you about them through email! When I have more money Ill definitely treat myself to one, but as far as wavelengths etc and how they affect color Id have to say that I am mot fond of the super blue water either. I like warm whites as well but basically a NW gives you the product?

[CarrillXXP]

Sorry guys for all of the spelling mistakes, the keyboard on the nookcolor is poopoo. I meant to say that NW and WW give you the same desired effect?

[DaveFason]

Correct. WW is to much. NW is perfect.

 

-Dave

[Bobba]

Dave- do you have any photos with the Deep Red (660)? Would you mind giving us a little more info about this led and how you incorporated it?

Thanks

[blasterman]

Warm white LEDs can be used, but what happens is you crank your royal blues up real high to compensate. like 3:1. This results in a tank that looks like 'Toon Town'. If you like super goofy colors and an extreme Fiji Purple cast, it's for you. Otherwise, stick to neutrals.

 

I've been busy the past 4 months taking care of a data center, but finally got around to getting back to my tank which by then you couldn't see through. Everything was fine though - just no growth. Still having an issue with calcium, grrrr. Scrubbed the glass, went back to a schedule of power blended mysis cubes and iodine super dosing, and things are exploding again. A rare montipora frag that died a year ago has suddenly sprang to life, so maybe going low nutrient for awhile brought it back. Need picks of that thing cuz I have no idea what the heck it is, but it's cool. Combined with iodine and cubes of baby brine shrimp I've got gobstopper zoas and green implosion palys the size of frikken dandelions. Acans aren't doing shabby either. Next project it to rip out thet last of the satistronics 10watters and convert to XTEs, but your 660nm comment have me thinking about the mix. I need some blue LED's around 465nm - not 470, not 460...around 465.

[DaveFason]

I'll have photo's shortly. I cant unveil all of my secrets! It has taken a TON of R&D and work to get all of this.

 

Blaster - Let me know if you want to try any of my RB ES. 1120mW @ 700mA. Drool worthy. I also have Deep red in stock too.

 

-Dave

[CarrillXXP]

Hmm seeing that I can only afford par 38s at the moment I was considering Rapids bulb but this has made me reconsider and look at boosts par 30s with NW leds. I guess the warm white in their bulb would most like drown out some of the color or I would assume because its not dimmable. I just want to achieve a nice white with a hint of blue that still makes corals look nice. Why might I ask did you guys drop the cyan Led? It looked really nice in photograph, was it the bad green hue?

[AlanStanwyk]

Dave- Is there a general ratio youve found for the 660nm to be used? I noticed you only used one in the build you just posted.Starting my next build in a week or two of 60 3W LEDs, 2:1 RB to NW/CW, and a few CB as well. Also, whats your take on 420nm regarding aesthetics? Thanks

[DaveFason]

Alan - I have added another one in the unit. That was just when I had just put my unit together. As far as the ratio I am using 1-2 660 per 24. I have some 420's coming in for testings but I am still unsure. I really cant see the 420 adding much. The CW,NW,B,RB,660 looks incredible.

 

-Dave

[AlanStanwyk]

Alan - I have added another one in the unit. That was just when I had just put my unit together. As far as the ratio I am using 1-2 660 per 24. I have some 420's coming in for testings but I am still unsure. I really cant see the 420 adding much. The CW,NW,B,RB,660 looks incredible.

 

-Dave

 

PM sent

[Mr. Microscope]

I guess I will add my two cents for new findings I have found along the way. As many of you know I have built quite a few units now. From 1-1 ratio to 3-1 ratio. When it comes down to it here is what I have found to be SPOT on to any T5,MH set up.

 

13 LED

3 NW

3 CW ( Warmer Bin )

4 Royal Blue

2 Blue

1 Deep Red

 

-Dave

 

Hey Dave,

Question: With this 13 LED setup, are you running everything at the same drive current?

 

BTW, thanks for all the research and testing you're putting into these colors.

[DaveFason]

Blue are separate. Whites and red are together. And no problem!

 

-Dave

[Mr. Microscope]

Blue are separate. Whites and red are together. And no problem!

 

-Dave

 

Okay, but are they set at equal levels? Like, if you had no dimming. e.g Blues at 500mA 100% and Whites/red 500mA 100%. Is everything being run with the same amount of power when you say you like the look?

 

Also, seems like there's not enough blue. Is this closer to a 10K look? Just curious since you have the 2:1 NW to RB, but there are three additional CW's in there. I understand it's a warmer bin, but still seems like a lot of white. I'll be building some new lights soon. So, your opinions are appreciated.

[fishnlou]

I have been playing around with multiple led combinations for quite some time now. I have used most colors except for red leds. I really like the coloration I get from 420nm leds except I had to run quite a bit to truely notice them. My current bc29 is setup as follows.

 

5- bridelux neutral white n402

2- luxeon k2 cyan 505nm

5- cree xpe blue 470nm

10- cree xpe royal blues 455nm

5- 10w satistronics 445nm

13- 3w shenzhen weili optical 420nm

 

I have seperate drivers for each string and can independently dim each color (except the 2 cyans and 5 470nm blue are on same string). My corals have been growing great so far and I couldn't be happier withe the light coloration. Although I haven't used 660nm leds, I feel with neutral whites it probably isnt necesary to add reds in.