Red hornets and why they're not rare part 2

[kdino]

those are awesome!!! i want them...now!!! hahaha

[Dani3d]

huh? why would they become cevered with cyano if there is no cyano in the tank??? I keep mine in low flow and never had cyano.

 

They should not develop cyano out of nowhere if there is none in the tank.

 

 

Hhhhmmm . . . I would say that is indeed a "secret" most zoas/palys are recommended for moderate to high light and moderate to high flow. Seldom, if ever, do you see a recommendation to keep them in low light and low flow. Most polyps kept in low flow quickly become covered in cyano, close up, and melt away. Thanks for the info . . . looking forward to the pictures.

[GiantBen]

DBTC?

[Dani3d]

hmm I don't see the alternating color in the skirt? what am I missing here?

 

What I see is tons of polyp that look just like that but lack the alternating skirt. That seem to be the hardest thing to find. Lots and lots of rings but no alternating skirt.

 

 

EDIT - I'd removed this post but am putting it back, these polyps are from the original mother colony that crapped out in a friend's tank. Two polyps survived and they've been under homemade LED lighting that can be compared to 30k. So it turns out that stable conditions and massive LED lighting you can color these up very well.

 

Here's the pics, obviously red hornets, this thread is pretty much done. Full skirts, alternating, etc... The only people complaining from now on are the guys that are pissed off the polyps they're selling for $100 are common.

 

 

 

 

I don't get it? I still don't see the alternating skirt in these photos. Maybe my monitor is not so good or what?? Am I the only one not seing this?

 

Also what kelvin were you using for your T5? I am experimenting with my purple hornet with leaving only actinic and they open up better, but not sure that's a good thing to do for a long time. I have mine for 2 months and they went from one polyp to 3 polys. Really slow growing

 

 

Honestly if I hadn't seen colonies come in fully colored up I'd have been really skeptical too, I'm just glad there's a pretty convincing argument now that you can make your own red hornets at home on the cheap

 

btw my buddy took one of the frags that were under the 1000w 20k when he dropped off the other one a week and a half ago. He brought it back today so I can get started on putting a DBTC thread together on these, here's what they looked like after a week and a half under LED's in a stable clean system. LED's are like the performance enhancement supplements of the zoanthids world...

 

Skirts went from stripey to solid real quick

 

 

[organism]

hmm I don't see the alternating color in the skirt? what am I missing here?

 

Glasses? Possibly a monocle or bifocals, contacts, dunno, it's hard to tell without a definitive vision test... Definitely something you should get looked at though

 

 

 

 

 

Also what kelvin were you using for your T5? I am experimenting with my purple hornet with leaving only actinic and they open up better, but not sure that's a good thing to do for a long time. I have mine for 2 months and they went from one polyp to 3 polys. Really slow growing

 

At work we use some el-cheapo bulbs, but it depends on your fixture, is it a 4, 6 or 8 bulb? I love a ratio of 3 ATI blue plus (20k) to 1 ATI aquablue special (14k)

[Dani3d]

well. I think I am not the one whou should be looking for glasses I have a very good vision but...

 

all the tentacles in your zoanthids have some red. In the real thing the red tentacle is fully red, not just the tip of it, and the alternating color does not have a trace of red. It's really well defined, red, dark, red, dark.

 

I just think that you don't really understand that difference between the real red hornet alternating skirt and what you call alternating skirt in your own zoanthids.

 

I don't want to cause trouble and I wish you were right about they are not rare and that light is what causing the alternating color but I do not beleive that this is true.

 

I see what you mean that yours does have a little bit of difference between the lower and higher tentacles but that's really minimal difference whereas in the real thing it is a real color difference:

 

Here on this page you can see what I mean. it,s a purple hornet but it show the trait well. The tentacles are no way hidden from light as they are not underneat each other but rather side by side, yet you can clearly see that some have color and some totaly don't.

 

http://www.coralpedia.com/articles005.php

 

Unfortunatly for me, that's exactly what attract me to these zoanthids. Yours are beautiful, very beautiful, but they don't have what I like the most out of the real thing.

 

 

 

Glasses? Possibly a monocle or bifocals, contacts, dunno, it's hard to tell without a definitive vision test... Definitely something you should get looked at though

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At work we use some el-cheapo bulbs, but it depends on your fixture, is it a 4, 6 or 8 bulb? I love a ratio of 3 ATI blue plus (20k) to 1 ATI aquablue special (14k)

[organism]

all the tentacles in your zoanthids have some red. In the real thing the red tentacle is fully red, not just the tip of it, and the alternating color does not have a trace of red. It's really well defined, red, dark, red, dark.

 

I just think that you don't really understand that difference between the real red hornet alternating skirt and what you call alternating skirt in your own zoanthids.

 

Sorry, I misunderstood and thought you'd read the thread you were commenting in, or had at least read the page directly before the one you posted to see what pics may have been on page 26. Those were the ones I was referring to. Figured you'd, you know, have looked one page back. Just one. Not too much to ask.

 

So ok, let's go over it slowly. The skirts in those pictures I just reposted for you, from page 26 that you hadn't bothered looking at, are solid red, and in some pictures they're 100% alternating. No argument. If you're not seeing it then the problem lies with you or your monitor and it doesn't involve me or these zoanthids. I'm not arguing with you any more on that one, because there's only so many times I can use the phrase "it's right there in full color photos".

 

Look at the very first picture in the very first post of this thread.

 

 

That's a true lineaged red hornet, and has zero of the characteristics you listed. None. Let me quote you, is it "really well defined, red, dark, red, dark" and "lighting doesn't make a difference", or do you have no idea what you're talking about. Because it's either one or the other.

 

Look at the picture under it.

 

 

That's the same frag after it's been colored up under different lighting and photoshopped for contrast, and has the characteristics you listed. The reason the first picture doesn't have the characteristics that you believe define a red hornet is because you don't understand the huge difference lighting can make on coral colors. And to top it off you're going to link to an article on a zoanthid that you think came into the country looking even 10% as close to how it looks today.

 

I don't want to cause trouble and I wish you were right about they are not rare and that light is what causing the alternating color but I do not beleive that this is true.

 

I've gotta quote this one again because it reminds me of something Lincoln once said. "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt". You're about to reply with a whole lot of "yes, but" because you're probably one of those people that's not going to just say "wow, my bad, that was pretty dumb, and I was wrong", please just keep it to yourself and don't waste any more of my time. I'm sorry if I sound b*tchy, but this is the 40th time this argument has come up in 27 pages and they just keep getting dumber every time.

[reef keeper]

Hey organism i was wondering what do hornets like lighting wise? because i got some PH and their yellow faded off.

[organism]

So far it's looking like they like lower very blue light, in the LED prop tank he had them about 16" from the bulbs. I've heard they do great under mostly actinic t5's with one white bulb thrown in, what's your lighting? I know pc's make them look kind of bleah...

[reef keeper]

I have PC's and they do look bleah but im hoping to upgrade to High Output T5.

[organism]

DBTC?

 

Oops, missed this one, DBTC stands for don't break the chain. It means I'll make a thread where three people will get free frags, within 45 days they'll give three other people a free frag who will post pictures of them in the thread, etc...

 

I'm still trying to work out the particulars on how to prevent people from taking advantage and to make sure they pass along a frag, I'm debating a $20 or so paypal deposit made to the person that gave them to you which gets returned once you give your free frag to someone, etc...

 

I have PC's and they do look bleah but im hoping to upgrade to High Output T5.

 

That's the issue right there, switch to t5's and you'll see your tank's colors go nuts

[Dani3d]

I have seen those pics and I have read most of the thread, but I have yet to see yours colored the right way as in none of the pics you poste they really look the same as the real thing.

 

If it is only a matter of lighting, then why are you not there yet?

 

You don't sound #####y, you just sound like a jerk...

 

A real one that is.

 

In the close up pics you showed, nothing looks right. the ring looks too thick, the tentacles are all sort of red.

 

If you cannot get your point accross without insulting people...I pitty you.

 

 

Sorry, I misunderstood and thought you'd read the thread you were commenting in, or had at least read the page directly before the one you posted to see what pics may have been on page 26. Those were the ones I was referring to. Figured you'd, you know, have looked one page back. Just one. Not too much to ask.

 

So ok, let's go over it slowly. The skirts in those pictures I just reposted for you, from page 26 that you hadn't bothered looking at, are solid red, and in some pictures they're 100% alternating. No argument. If you're not seeing it then the problem lies with you or your monitor and it doesn't involve me or these zoanthids. I'm not arguing with you any more on that one, because there's only so many times I can use the phrase "it's right there in full color photos".

 

Look at the very first picture in the very first post of this thread.

 

 

That's a true lineaged red hornet, and has zero of the characteristics you listed. None. Let me quote you, is it "really well defined, red, dark, red, dark" and "lighting doesn't make a difference", or do you have no idea what you're talking about. Because it's either one or the other.

 

Look at the picture under it.

 

 

That's the same frag after it's been colored up under different lighting and photoshopped for contrast, and has the characteristics you listed. The reason the first picture doesn't have the characteristics that you believe define a red hornet is because you don't understand the huge difference lighting can make on coral colors. And to top it off you're going to link to an article on a zoanthid that you think came into the country looking even 10% as close to how it looks today.

 

 

 

I've gotta quote this one again because it reminds me of something Lincoln once said. "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt". You're about to reply with a whole lot of "yes, but" because you're probably one of those people that's not going to just say "wow, my bad, that was pretty dumb, and I was wrong", please just keep it to yourself and don't waste any more of my time. I'm sorry if I sound b*tchy, but this is the 40th time this argument has come up in 27 pages and they just keep getting dumber every time.

[Jerfrog]

you are being fooled by photoshop. thats what he is saying.

[GiantBen]

I actually think that he is saying that the alternating color is NOT a defining characteristic, because it is so light dependent.

[organism]

I have seen those pics and I have read most of the thread, but I have yet to see yours colored the right way as in none of the pics you poste they really look the same as the real thing.

 

Do you know how long the purple hornets took to color up, much less get the alternating skirts? You just said lighting makes no difference on the skirts. It does, all the pics in my last post prove it, so cool it. Instead of addressing the things that debunk your talking points you just repeated and rephrased them, that means we're done here.

 

You don't sound #####y, you just sound like a jerk...

 

I'm usually not, but yes, you're right, it's only that this one specific lighting argument in this thread has been had so many times that I just don't have the patience for it anymore. Every time it's been brought up it goes the same way, the people that know lighting say you know, corals change color.

[Dani3d]

Well, I hope you're right about this and if you are, then kudo to you for finding it. I do have a few of those that I just got for cheap and I will see how they morph with time, but I only have a MH 14k so not sure they are going to morph the right way.

 

Don't be too upset if people are skeptical at first though, it is to be expected. This surely is exciting.

 

Do you know how long the purple hornets took to color up, much less get the alternating skirts? You just said lighting makes no difference on the skirts. It does, all the pics in my last post prove it, so cool it. Instead of addressing the things that debunk your talking points you just repeated and rephrased them, that means we're done here.

 

 

 

I'm usually not, but yes, you're right, it's only that this one specific lighting argument in this thread has been had so many times that I just don't have the patience for it anymore. Every time it's been brought up it goes the same way, the people that know lighting say you know, corals change color.

[amnestia]

Lighting does play a big role on alternating skirts. I had a PH frag 18" away from an 8bulb t5 setup and they had alternating skirts. Once I jacked them up to 8" away the alternating skirt disappeared into both rows becoming yellow.

[Carlton'sTank]

Still loving the thread organism. I have had a bunch of different zoas/palys change drastically due to different lighting. I was able to find a colony of these red-rings and am going to see how they color up for me over time. I am glad you helped to bust up this marketing scheme. The name thing sucks. I used to sell frags with no names listed at all and rarely I would get someone who would ask the "name" of the coral. Now, I have trouble selling even a few frags if there is no "name" with it. I went to a frag swap a few months back and I couldn't believe how much the people at this swap cared about names.

 

Once everything gets settled in my tank I may add to your thread if you don't mind. This will be an unbiased addition to this thread coming from someone who sells frags. Most people who sell would want to debunk this hypothesis, but I want to support it because it is down right shameful for people to pull a gigantic profit from something that is common.

[organism]

I used to sell frags with no names listed at all and rarely I would get someone who would ask the "name" of the coral. Now, I have trouble selling even a few frags if there is no "name" with it.

 

+1, and it's not just zoanthids but chalices, acros, montis... Even some wholesalers are getting in on it, and it's spreading to the picking stations that look at stuff online and wonder why they're getting $4 for it. So the wholesale prices go up, the shop's prices go up, and everyone b*tches that a lobo or hammer is $20 more at their LFS, not knowing that it's thanks to some idiot who had to name his chalice and zoanthids something better than the idiot before him did just to get a few more bucks.

 

Basically, a few greedy douches have managed to make the entire hobby more expensive for everyone, and all they do is lie, mislead people with blue pictures, and pretend super colored up corals came in that way to keep their common **** "rare". There's going to be plenty more of these "this coral isn't rare" threads... /rant

[montipora]

Basically, a few greedy douches have managed to make the entire hobby more expensive for everyone, and all they do is lie, mislead people with blue pictures, and pretend super colored up corals came in that way to keep their common **** "rare". There's going to be plenty more of these "this coral isn't rare" threads... /rant

 

+1!!!! I will not be buying any zoanthids or palys because of the naming craze. It's getting out of hand. I used to really enjoy this hobby...

[GiantBen]

I don't mind names so much. You say I have some "tubbs blue" zoas, and pople have an idea what you have.

For me the problem comes down to nuances of what makes a coral a "real" version vs an imitation. The arguments stating that the Red Hornets shown in this thread are "Fake" are perfect examples. Every thing that people have chosen to try and target (I'd say unsuccessfully) have been the smallest minute points. WHo gives a ####.

 

PS: The concept if lineaging is total BS too. I mean, who says that a coral is "real" becomes it comes from one person who says he is the first to find it. As if he genetically created it in a lab and nothing like it can be found anywhere else. Why would someone care about that?

[Deleted User 6]

so when do we start pricing the noobs out of the hobby and making this just for rich people like me again?

[montipora]

so when do we start pricing the noobs out of the hobby and making this just for rich people like me again?

 

[Deleted User 6]

i miss the good ol days when keeping a reef meant you were an elitist. we're a dying breed.

[Carlton'sTank]

so when do we start pricing the noobs out of the hobby and making this just for rich people like me again?

 

 

Haha.

 

One of the guys I rode in with to the frag swap was a prime example of a douche reefer. He was name dropping like I actually cared and looked at me crazy because I had never heard of purple monster before.

 

I love the hobby, propagation is something that fascinates me and keeps me really interested, but it sucks to know that there are a lot of shady vendors/small time frag people that are trying to make a living in stead of practicing aquaculture to spread beautiful coral and gain knowledge. If some of these people got a day job and did this because it was their passion it would work out a lot better. I have a job, so anything I make gets filtered back into my systems via equipment, coral etc. Most the people trying to make a quick buck could give a rat's a** about shipping practices or healthy specimens, it is all about grabbing the money and running.

 

I am definitely going to join this foray and if my colony colors up like the others shown, I will frag it and sell them for cheap. I know that you said LEDs are best with t5's being second, but my Phoenix bulbs have produced some great color changes from the stuff I have now and I think with my dedicated frag tank that runs really clean, I can get some of the changes seen here.