evilc66 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 yes, the shadowing is WAY more pronounced, which I much prefer to the harsh MH I had. It's a more natural feeling. One thing I'm wondering is if the spotlight creates some lighting "dead spots" in the tank due to the shadows, but only time will tell that. Even so, I would still go with the bulb again if I had to do over - it's a really great look. The wife said "well it certainly makes the tank look pretty!" Sold. Evil, are you going to run new PAR measurements with the new bulb shipment to see how the power increase changed things? I wish I had a par meter to check out the coverage for my tank. The corals seem to like it so far though. I did initial measurements, and the increase is about 25%. It's pretty significant. I will be running a full set of tests on all lens angle soon (I was hoping to do that last weekend, but ran out of time) and will post the results here. well how high is the bulb from the top of the tank? If it's less than 12" i can deal with it. but if it's like 20" thats kinda high It's upwards of 20" from the water. With the wider lens options, the distance can be reduced. Link to comment
Deano Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Ok. Performance is as follows: 5 LED (3 white, 2 royal blue, 12K), 10W PAR30 lamp w/45 degree optics 9" 336 12" 190 14" 150 18" 84 Compare that to the original: 9" 196 12" 110 14" 82 18" 52 So, a pretty healthy increase in performance. Coverage area seems a little better than the original Pico Lamp. I'll post pictures soon. It's upwards of 20" from the water. With the wider lens options, the distance can be reduced. Wow 20" from the tank thats pretty high up there. That is the PAR38 lamp, right??? I have searched this site for all the info I can on your PAR38 lamp. Found a lot of valuable info but I am still not convienced if I should try this bulb. My question. I have a AGA 5.5 16" wide. I currently have a Nove Extreme 2x18 T5 light and I am not happy with it. Considering your PAR38 Lamp. Do you think this lamp will be an improvement over the T5 if the LED is raised enought to get coverage from end to end of the tank? I don't think I would be happy with the bulb 20" from the tank to get enough spread to cover end to end, plus I would think you would give up a lot of quality ligh at the bottom of the tank at that distance. Link to comment
phorensic Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Deano, I'm afraid with just one PAR38 with the current 40 degree optics you will have a moderate amount of light fall-off at the edges of your AGA 5.5. You would have two options-- You could keep the light close (10-12" from surface of water) to get good PAR in the middle of the tank (or focused on an offset pile of LR); Or you could raise the light up pretty high (20"+ from surface of water) and spread out the light more, at the expense of a bit of PAR. With the new 21W PAR38 this could be a totally moot argument. I would still get two of them! I would like to make it no secret that I am still pushing for wider optics, added to these new 21W units it should make for an even *more* amazing light! I PMed nanocustoms.com my concerns and request for an upgrade a few days ago Link to comment
evilc66 Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 Wider optics are coming soon. The new 21W units have crazy PAR. I have measured over 400 PAR at 18" in open air. Even with the 15W versions I have 30" from the sand, I get 130 PAR, which is enough to grow almost anything but acros. I would expect 200+ with the 21W units at the same distance. The wider optics will make these lamps a lot more suitable for primary lighting on smaller tanks like the 5.5g. Like I have mentioned before, I am looking to do a full set of measurements of all lens options, with PAR and estimated coverage area at multiple distances. Don't worry, I'm coming through for you guys Link to comment
Deano Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Wider optics are coming soon. The new 21W units have crazy PAR. I have measured over 400 PAR at 18" in open air. Even with the 15W versions I have 30" from the sand, I get 130 PAR, which is enough to grow almost anything but acros. I would expect 200+ with the 21W units at the same distance. The wider optics will make these lamps a lot more suitable for primary lighting on smaller tanks like the 5.5g. Like I have mentioned before, I am looking to do a full set of measurements of all lens options, with PAR and estimated coverage area at multiple distances. Don't worry, I'm coming through for you guys I am not coming down on you, in fact I praise your efforts in this area for such a limited market. I think you have made a huge leap forward with this lighting option. I can see the advantages when it comes to cost of operation. Concidering a quality 70 or 150 w MH bulb cost around $70.00 on an annual bases. But you know consumers they always want more for less. I think you could make other lighting options obsolete if you could get this lamp to cover more area at max 12". I'm not here to reinvent the wheel but I think I have a basic understanding that LEDs a very much directional/spot lighting. Most of the projects I have read about deal with the LED aray on a flat surface. Would there be any advantage to mounting the LEDs on a curved or rounded base? I would think this would help to spread the lighting more. Let me rephrase that, On a slightly curved or round base. I reliaze you still need the overlap of the LED colors to get a good blend. Link to comment
evilc66 Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 The wider optics are going to help a lot, but there is only so much you can do with 5 LEDs at 21W. Mounting the LEDs on a curved surface could help a little with spread, but with too severe of an angle, you lose a fair amount of light to reflection. It's more effective to just spread the LEDs out over a larger area. I wish we could make these cheaper, but it's just not possible right now. I kow everyone would like to see these as cheap as MH for the same light levels. It's getting better though. We aren't most expensive by far for this kind of technology. There has been a recent rash of Japanese import lamps like ours that are going for double the price with less performance, and poorer construction. Link to comment
Deleted User 6 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 17" from the water. I'm considering lowering it another 9" (the next step down on the pendant), but I want to see what my SPS do first. If they like it, it stays as is. Link to comment
Deano Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Deano, I'm afraid with just one PAR38 with the current 40 degree optics you will have a moderate amount of light fall-off at the edges of your AGA 5.5. You would have two options-- You could keep the light close (10-12" from surface of water) to get good PAR in the middle of the tank (or focused on an offset pile of LR); Or you could raise the light up pretty high (20"+ from surface of water) and spread out the light more, at the expense of a bit of PAR. With the new 21W PAR38 this could be a totally moot argument. I would still get two of them! I would like to make it no secret that I am still pushing for wider optics, added to these new 21W units it should make for an even *more* amazing light! I PMed nanocustoms.com my concerns and request for an upgrade a few days ago I appreciate your input and agree totally. I think 2 would be the best bet for complete coverage, but with a 5.5 tank and as Evil said the PAR output of this lamp is amazing I would be concerned 2 of the latest PAR lamps would be over kill on this size of tank. Now if the tank was a 10 gal than I think 2 would be excellant. I think between yours and Evils response I will give one a try. I think I can live with some minor light loss on the ends of the tank. Once Evil and Nanotuners gets this dialed in maybe they can offer some options, such as a duel lamp option with less PAR output for around $130.00. I know from reading this thread they are doing what is right by giving more output with one lamp but this option is not going to work for every application and in this limited market you will need to be able to appeal to as many consumers as you can. Link to comment
Deano Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 The wider optics are going to help a lot, but there is only so much you can do with 5 LEDs at 21W. Mounting the LEDs on a curved surface could help a little with spread, but with too severe of an angle, you lose a fair amount of light to reflection. It's more effective to just spread the LEDs out over a larger area. I wish we could make these cheaper, but it's just not possible right now. I kow everyone would like to see these as cheap as MH for the same light levels. It's getting better though. We aren't most expensive by far for this kind of technology. There has been a recent rash of Japanese import lamps like ours that are going for double the price with less performance, and poorer construction. No No cheaper is not where I was heading I understand your need to make money in this venture. I think you are very resonable with the price of the lamp. I think what I was getting at was being able to offer a single lamp that can be more versital or offer an duel lamp option that has less PAR such as the 3 LED lamp. Don't sale yourself short, you have a great package here. Keep in mind a MH lamp takes more than just a screw in lamp like you are offering. By the time you by the Ballast, reflector and wiring your lamp is looking quit atractive. Link to comment
travisurfer Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 It seems like people are more concerned with coverage over intensity. Evil, have you considered distributing the 3 x 3 watt version of the bulb as well? Sounds like you might have a market for people looking for extra coverage. Just my two cents. Link to comment
Deano Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 It seems like people are more concerned with coverage over intensity. Evil, have you considered distributing the 3 x 3 watt version of the bulb as well? Sounds like you might have a market for people looking for extra coverage. Just my two cents. Thank you that is the point I was trying to make. Sometime less is more. Link to comment
evilc66 Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 It seems like people are more concerned with coverage over intensity. Evil, have you considered distributing the 3 x 3 watt version of the bulb as well? Sounds like you might have a market for people looking for extra coverage. Just my two cents. We are looking into it, but I'm trying to find a lamp that is of equal quality to the 21W unit. It's all in the heatsink. I don't think we are really going to save a lot of money by going to a smaller lamp though. I don't think the cost savings are going to be as dramatic as you are hoping for, but only time will tell right? This time around, I'm going to be looking at MR16 or GU10 base units, opposed to E26. There are a ton more options available for fixtures in that size bulb for MR16/GU10 than E26. Link to comment
travisurfer Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 We are looking into it, but I'm trying to find a lamp that is of equal quality to the 21W unit. It's all in the heatsink. I don't think we are really going to save a lot of money by going to a smaller lamp though. I don't think the cost savings are going to be as dramatic as you are hoping for, but only time will tell right? This time around, I'm going to be looking at MR16 or GU10 base units, opposed to E26. There are a ton more options available for fixtures in that size bulb for MR16/GU10 than E26. I don't know what your profit margin looks like and how it would be applied to a smaller bulb, but it does look like others may want the coverage. Wider optics would probably be the better option for you in terms of production and your variable cost. Personally, I think the super-bright 5 x 3w versions are awesome simply because it's essentially like having halides on picos without the heat. The customization that comes along with it makes it that much better too. Link to comment
JBM Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 well if i have to hang the bulb 15-20" above the tank, i guess thats what im gonna need to do. im in no huge rush for the wider optic lense. I say this cause im still a few months away from needing a good light. tank isnt built yet & im leaving it be for a good 3 months before i add anything Link to comment
evilc66 Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 I don't know what your profit margin looks like and how it would be applied to a smaller bulb, but it does look like others may want the coverage. Wider optics would probably be the better option for you in terms of production and your variable cost. Personally, I think the super-bright 5 x 3w versions are awesome simply because it's essentially like having halides on picos without the heat. The customization that comes along with it makes it that much better too. I agree. Coverage is going to be key. Doing it in a cost effective manner could be tough. We have the gears turning, so stay tuned. Link to comment
JBM Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 suprisingly i got the OK from my wife. Put me down for one of the wider optic led bulbs. Link to comment
evilc66 Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 Lens options will be available soon. Keep an eye open in the sponsor forum and here for the availability announcement. Link to comment
Deano Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Lens options will be available soon. Keep an eye open in the sponsor forum and here for the availability announcement. Great! I'm in for a wider lens option. I'll keep watching this tread for the announcment. Thanks for responding to the need. I wish you all the success on your new business venture. Link to comment
jgilvey Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Lens options will be available soon. Keep an eye open in the sponsor forum and here for the availability announcement. Count me in. Love to see some numbers or other info! Link to comment
phorensic Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I had a question PMed to me about my lighting setup. I figured I would post it here for everyone to see. The thing is you have to be pretty lucky to have your tank set up in a location like mine with cabinets overhead to do this. It's just a plastic lamp socket from Home Depot. It was like $1.25! I took a computer power cord and cut the end off, stripped the wires, and screwed the hot + neutral into the socket. The ground wire is unused. There is a tiny tab that comes off the base of the socket that I used to screw right into the cabinets. Original Installation Shot Detail Link to comment
Deano Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I had a question PMed to me about my lighting setup. I figured I would post it here for everyone to see. The thing is you have to be pretty lucky to have your tank set up in a location like mine with cabinets overhead to do this. It's just a plastic lamp socket from Home Depot. It was like $1.25! I took a computer power cord and cut the end off, stripped the wires, and screwed the hot + neutral into the socket. The ground wire is unused. There is a tiny tab that comes off the base of the socket that I used to screw right into the cabinets. Original Installation Shot Detail Nice and easy big selling point of this lamp, but you may want to cover those bare wire ends attached to the socket. Could be a shocking experiance if you touch them when opening the cabinet. Link to comment
JBM Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 highly doubtfull. those terminals look recessed. besides 120 doesnt hurt Link to comment
evilc66 Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 Sure it doesn't. I've been zapped before. Don't want to do it again, or recommend it to anyone. Link to comment
MEDGE Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I guess it all relative, it does not hurt compaired to 460 VAC! Link to comment
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