Hexadron's Nitoralis [Retired]

[Mstefa1]

 

The 50watt and 75 watt are the same price most everywhere I chose the Neo-Therm again due to the great reviews, and my temperature has been solid from the time I set the tank up! I may even end up switching my 75watt in my display to the 50watt I just purchased after i'm done with the Coral QT to save a bit on power usage.

 

I have an additional 75watt for water changes, so I could always have two to get that water heated really fast!

 

I could have went with a 25watt, but it was only a few bucks less.

 

I could have went cheaper on a few things i'm sure, but one thing I learned is do your research and don't make purchases just because it's on sale, or because it's cheap.

 

 

There's a reason they offer both a 50w and a 75w, even if they sell them for the same price. You need to size the heater properly with the tank and the ambient air temperature. Were not even talking energy efficiency here. The heater is either on or off. A lower power heater will run longer and a higher power heater will run less under the same conditions. Therefore it's possible the higher power heater may overshoot the desired temp if it's too powerful for the tank. Do to the location of my tank being between 68-72 during the winter season I felt the 50w was a better choice given my water volume. I think I chose correctly as my temp is solid.

 

The Neo-Therm seams like a great heater but it's overpriced IMO. As heaters are the #1 hardware that fails, it's only a matter of time before either of them fail. Your second best choice would be to replace your heater yearly and your best choice would be to have it switched primarily with a full controller or dedicated heater controller and use the onboard thermostat as a redundant backup. Given that I will probably get an Apex Jr for this down the line as I love my Apex lite, I couldn't see spending my load on such an expensive heater.

 

 

Well I have set the budget at $200 maximum. After the tank is purchased I will have come very close to that. Keep in mind, I had to purchase everything. Since i haven't been in the 'hobby' for at least the past 10 years I had nothing on hand! Here's the equipment list:

 

5.5 Gallon Tank

Aquaclear 50

Cobalt Neo-Therm 50w Heater

Thermometer (cheap 'floating glass' one)

LEDTRiC Full Spectrum Plus Par 38 (and super cheap, super awesome swing arm lamp)

 

That's a very nice list you have but I still think an expensive budget. That being said, if you haven't had anything already then you have to start somewhere.

 

I think I'm in for $40 for the AC70, $19 for the 75w Jager, & $20 for the LEDs (including the 1 I fried lol, optics I haven't used yet, and shipping). I'm not including the live rock because I purchased the live rock not knowing exactly how much I was going to put in my display so I would have gotten the same amount regardless of having a frag tank. Oh, crap I spent another $15 on the acrylic for the lid and hardware to hang the heat sink. I already had small pieces of acrylic but I wanted 1 that fit all the way across. But we don't count mindless trips to the hardware store, now do we? lol

[Hexadron]

There's a reason they offer both a 50w and a 75w, even if they sell them for the same price. You need to size the heater properly with the tank and the ambient air temperature. Were not even talking energy efficiency here. The heater is either on or off. A lower power heater will run longer and a higher power heater will run less under the same conditions. Therefore it's possible the higher power heater may overshoot the desired temp if it's too powerful for the tank. Do to the location of my tank being between 68-72 during the winter season I felt the 50w was a better choice given my water volume. I think I chose correctly as my temp is solid.

Well according to what is reccomended by Caobalt, the 50 watt is for tanks anywhere from 4-10 gallons if you are trying to raise temperatures anywhere from <7ºF-14ºF In my case my ambient room temperature is around 72ºF so that means to have it at 80ºF (where I like to keep my tank) I would have to raise it 8ºF

 

Seems right to me. Besides, even if it is a tad "overkill" I won't always want a tiny 5.5 gallon for a frag/qt tank. I will go larger when I have the space

The Neo-Therm seams like a great heater but it's overpriced IMO. As heaters are the #1 hardware that fails, it's only a matter of time before either of them fail. Your second best choice would be to replace your heater yearly and your best choice would be to have it switched primarily with a full controller or dedicated heater controller and use the onboard thermostat as a redundant backup. Given that I will probably get an Apex Jr for this down the line as I love my Apex lite, I couldn't see spending my load on such an expensive heater.

There are definitely more expensive heaters on the market, and you are right, no heater is safe from failure. I've had luck with Neo-Therm thus far, so I thought I would stick with it. I really like that it isn't glass and it's small size/how thin it is.

 

Controller will ber a future purchase

 

That's a very nice list you have but I still think an expensive budget. That being said, if you haven't had anything already then you have to start somewhere.

Welcome to Canada.

 

But regardless of location and prices, it's always tough starting from scratch. The Lighting was nearly half the bidget, so that was a big dent. I didn't want to waste my time with compacts...

I think I'm in for $40 for the AC70, $19 for the 75w Jager, & $20 for the LEDs (including the 1 I fried lol, optics I haven't used yet, and shipping). I'm not including the live rock because I purchased the live rock not knowing exactly how much I was going to put in my display so I would have gotten the same amount regardless of having a frag tank. Oh, crap I spent another $15 on the acrylic for the lid and hardware to hang the heat sink. I already had small pieces of acrylic but I wanted 1 that fit all the way across. But we don't count mindless trips to the hardware store, now do we? lol

The heater you definitely saves some $, You said you had the tank on hand (which would have been helpful for me!) My LED's cost quite a bit more It will be great for any future projects, as i'll have all this on hand from now on. I'm not the type of guy to sell everything off after anyways, so hopefully I won't have to fork out this kind of $ again.

 

Haha I made so many trips to the store looking for stuff. I'll be heading out tonight to PetSmart to see if I can get a deal on a tank. Wish me luck.

[Mstefa1]

Again, I can't speak for the Neo-Therm as I've never used them personally however here is a pretty good chart. Most places I've researched falls very close to what is listed in this chart. This is where I decided on 50w for my 15g PicO and 75w for my basement frag tank

I apologize for questioning your Neo-Therm. I thought you chose the Jager for your PicO which was why I was wondering why you got a more expensive heater for your QT. I just went back and looked at your first page and found out I was wrong. I'm betting that the plastic housing doesn't transfer heat as well which would be why you need a higher wattage.

I've got a 200w Stealth heater in my Aquapod which also has a plastic housing. I have no idea why I put a 200w in there but it is completely overkill. The heater rarely runs but when it does it runs for a very short time and shuts off. And since I keep tight temperature tolerances, when the weather is warmer sometimes my heater runs, overshoots, and my chiller kicks on to compensate. Were not taking large temp swings as I prefer to keep things in a .5 degree tolerance. I also understand that my heater was recalled but I never got around to getting it replaced. I'm not overly concerned as it is switched by my controller but if I did it again I would put a 75w in there, or at least no more then a 100w.

May I ask why you keep your reef temp so high? I keep freshwater tanks ~80 degrees F however I prefer to keep my marine tanks 78.5 degrees F. I know everyone has their own opinions for everything from 75-82 but I just thought I'd like to hear what you had to say.

[Hexadron]

I apologize for questioning your Neo-Therm. I thought you chose the Jager for your PicO which was why I was wondering why you got a more expensive heater for your QT. I just went back and looked at your first page and found out I was wrong. I'm betting that the plastic housing doesn't transfer heat as well which would be why you need a higher wattage.

Hey no apologies needed! I would have questioned it if I bought a more xpensive heater than my DT You're probably right about the plastic housing not heating quite as fast as glass or titanium. In my case, I prefer that. Slolw and steady

I've got a 200w Stealth heater in my Aquapod which also has a plastic housing. I have no idea why I put a 200w in there but it is completely overkill. The heater rarely runs but when it does it runs for a very short time and shuts off. And since I keep tight temperature tolerances, when the weather is warmer sometimes my heater runs, overshoots, and my chiller kicks on to compensate. Were not taking large temp swings as I prefer to keep things in a .5 degree tolerance. I also understand that my heater was recalled but I never got around to getting it replaced. I'm not overly concerned as it is switched by my controller but if I did it again I would put a 75w in there, or at least no more then a 100w.

That's why I was thinking of possible switching my 75watt Neo-Therm in my DT to a 50watt afterwards. Maybe i'll end up picking up a 25watt for a Frag/QT tank. I haven't decided, but like my equipment list for now. All's I know is I check my temperature about 2-3 times a day, and it's always solid.

May I ask why you keep your reef temp so high? I keep freshwater tanks ~80 degrees F however I prefer to keep my marine tanks 78.5 degrees F. I know everyone has their own opinions for everything from 75-82 but I just thought I'd like to hear what you had to say.

Well no specific reason I can think of besides a lot of people with full on reefs seems to run about 80. I've chosen this mainly for the cycle, as I have read that the higher side of temperatures will aid in your bacteria expansion.

 

I haven't yet tried any lower, but once I have livestock added, I may futz around and see if there is any disadvantage/advantages to running higher or lower. I realize with lower temps it can slow down metabolisms somewhat.

 

Here's from an article online:

 

"Since most aquarium corals are collected from the Indo Pacific and the Caribbean where the water temperatures are routinely between 85 and 89 degrees Fahrenheit..."

 

I'm sure there are pros and cons for each, but I think 80 works for me!

[Deckoz2302]

My tank is .....hot...my thread lies about 78.9 lol. I keep my tank at 83...makes my clowns go humping..every 9 days or so lol...then the assessor eats them...

[nicholc2]

I keep mine at 80. So far so good. But like JDH said, it's mainly due to research and the fact that most corals come from temps higher than even that. Just remember that temperature directly affects the metabolism of everything in the tank. Higher temps, higher metabolisms for coral, inverts, fish, bacteria, etc. Some people limit coral growth by having a cooler tank or speed it up by having a hotter tank. IMHO as long as your tank inhabitants are healthy all is well.

[Mstefa1]

I keep mine at 80. So far so good. But like JDH said, it's mainly due to research and the fact that most corals come from temps higher than even that. Just remember that temperature directly affects the metabolism of everything in the tank. Higher temps, higher metabolisms for coral, inverts, fish, bacteria, etc. Some people limit coral growth by having a cooler tank or speed it up by having a hotter tank. IMHO as long as your tank inhabitants are healthy all is well.

 

Exactly, I was going to post the same comment after I read Jordon's explanation. Some people try for more coral growth with warmer temps. Being a nano, you need to limit growth do to space constraints. There is also a lot of data out there between striving for growth and striving for coloration and what is grand for one isn't ideal for the other.

[Hexadron]

My tank is .....hot...my thread lies about 78.9 lol. I keep my tank at 83...makes my clowns go humping..every 9 days or so lol...then the assessor eats them...

 

Haha, oh ya there's that too! Sexy times

 

I keep mine at 80. So far so good. But like JDH said, it's mainly due to research and the fact that most corals come from temps higher than even that. Just remember that temperature directly affects the metabolism of everything in the tank. Higher temps, higher metabolisms for coral, inverts, fish, bacteria, etc. Some people limit coral growth by having a cooler tank or speed it up by having a hotter tank. IMHO as long as your tank inhabitants are healthy all is well.

 

Ya pretty much I'll read up as much as I can about a subjest, find the "average" and then make my own decisions based upon the material presented. 80 Degrees seemed to be a good standard.

 

 

Exactly, I was going to post the same comment after I read Jordon's explanation. Some people try for more coral growth with warmer temps. Being a nano, you need to limit growth do to space constraints. There is also a lot of data out there between striving for growth and striving for coloration and what is grand for one isn't ideal for the other.

 

Well i'm not aiming for super growth or anything in particular. Color will be important to me, but I haven't seem to much on temperature vs. color. If anyone wants to provide some info that would be awesome. I always thought color was more dependant on params and lighting myself.

 

Very well said though. There is definitely reasons to go on either end.

[nicholc2]

 

Well i'm not aiming for super growth or anything in particular. Color will be important to me, but I haven't seem to much on temperature vs. color. If anyone wants to provide some info that would be awesome. I always thought color was more dependant on params and lighting myself.

+1

 

I'd love to see something in regard to temp and coloration. My goal is to have a happy medium. I believe in my tank's past life I ran it at 78, but this time around I chose 80. So far, so good.

[Mstefa1]

Search Google for the following terms... water temperature and coral color

 

There are a lot of links stating that warmer temperatures cause zooxanthellae to abandon corals. I'm betting that if something like a 1.3 degree F increase in ocean temperature can adversely affect corals, can you imagine about our tanks with daily swings? That's one of the reasons I strive for consistent water temps.

 

One of the cool features of Apex (which I don't currently use is the use of seasonal charts for sunlight and temperature. The lowest temp that I've found is 75.0 on Feb 1st and the highest is 80.5 on Aug 1st and 2nd. Right now according to the Apex seasonal chart it should be 76.0 for March 28th. Just some interesting info.

[Mstefa1]

+1

 

I'd love to see something in regard to temp and coloration. My goal is to have a happy medium. I believe in my tank's past life I ran it at 78, but this time around I chose 80. So far, so good.

 

And your right, stability is key. Don't forget that ocean water varies greatly between surface temps and underwater temps. I'm assuming there is a standard depth that they take readings at.

[Hexadron]

That's cool about the Apex seasonal chart. Where are they getting their readings from?

 

Okay here's the diatoms i was talking about. It's strange because the majority of them are on the top and back of my rocks. There are none on my sand bed and none at the front of my scape? Weird...

 

Sorry for the subpar photo's, but I just turned off the mp10 for these, not the 2 Eheim pumps (LAZY)

 

[Deckoz2302]

Ok so here's a stick for the fire

 

I keep my tank at 83....

 

I keel my params at

1390mag

12.6dkh

470 calc

3 nitrates

0.02 phosphates

 

Biggest things for color are

 

Iron/strontium/potassium/iodide/bromium

Heavy light & food

 

But keeping phosphates down. Best way to do this is amino acids, vitamins and carbohydrates with the flow turned off and spot feed so the coals can bask.

 

Even then it can be hard to keep trates and phos low.

 

With a lower tempurature you have to feed less because slower metabolism.

With higher temp you feed more.

 

Now here is a kicker

 

With higher than natural seawater params the corals expend less energy to deposit thier skeleton.

 

Corals expend less energy when fed broken down foods because they don't have to digest as they are being fed usable foods

 

So what have I gathered from my trials?

 

If I keep a higher temp, higher than nsw params, maintain 2-3ppm nitrates and undev0.02 ppm phosphates while feeding a regulated diet of mulm bacteria, amino acids and carbohydrates. Than I can maintain natural coloration with explosive grow and a biofilter that can keep up with feedings. ..

 

Just my take on all combined

 

 

Oh and for lighting I use a sunphase. I tried the tempurature thing but was never really sure and always freaked out when it chaned

[metrokat]

Incoming data. Too much. Too good. Must store in hard drive for future use.

[Deckoz2302]

That is a combination of zeovit, red sea coral program, and higher temps

[uwwmatt]

I'll be following this thread. Nice work!

[metrokat]

That is a combination of zeovit, red sea coral program, and higher temps

yes. I am very tempted to dose iron for green color and for my macros. Already dose aminos, carbs, potassium and iodide. What is mulm bacteria?

[Deckoz2302]

yes. I am very tempted to dose iron for green color and for my macros. Already dose aminos, carbs, potassium and iodide. What is mulm bacteria?

Grows on zeolites. White filmy shit that grows in your water that your mixing....or on powerheads... ive always used microbac7 because it cheaper then zeovit. Shake the reactor once a day to release it.

 

Which has me thinking since I'm building a sump I may build a zeo reactor as well....

[metrokat]

Hmmmm

[Hexadron]

Hey who be hijacking my thread?! Haha j/k I love that everyone is sharing info here, keep it up guys.

 

I'll be following this thread. Nice work!

 

Thanks matt

 

Good lord, I could be researching reef stuff until the day I die, I swear...

 

So I can't get a good pic, but i'm starting to get a bit of a film on the surface of my water. I think it may be from the Zeo dosing.. I'm not worried about it, but it's a bit distracting. Anyone else experience that? Or is that just a part of a typical cycle?

[metrokat]

sowwy

[Hexadron]

sowwy

 

Don't make me pull out the tweety bird...!

[Mstefa1]

Hey who be hijacking my thread?! Haha j/k I love that everyone is sharing info here, keep it up guys.

 

 

Thanks matt

 

Good lord, I could be researching reef stuff until the day I die, I swear...

 

So I can't get a good pic, but i'm starting to get a bit of a film on the surface of my water. I think it may be from the Zeo dosing.. I'm not worried about it, but it's a bit distracting. Anyone else experience that? Or is that just a part of a typical cycle?

 

Do you have micro bubbles in your tank? It could be organics attaching to micro bubbles.

[Hexadron]

Do you have micro bubbles in your tank? It could be organics attaching to micro bubbles.

 

No micro bubbles. It's not concerning me ATM, but just something I noticed..

[Hexadron]

Alright, so everything is purchased for my Coral QT tank. In all it worked out to $150 for everything. I originally budgeted $200 for this, but got some great savings! Here's a breakdown:

Coral Quarantine

• Tank - 5.5g AGA (FREE!)
• Lighting - LEDTRiC Par38 Full Spectrum Plus ($70)
• Heater - Cobalt Aquatics 50w Neo-Therm ($50)
• Circulation & Filtration - AquaClear 50 ($30)

 

My brother was heading to the pet store to pick up some food for his dogs, so I asked if he could pick up a tank for me since he was there anyways. He said it was so cheap, not to bother paying him back. What a bro

I got the LEDTRiC light on sale + a $10 coupon (Thanks Mike!) and as well the AquaClear 50 was on sale (save $10) I did have to pay full price for the heater, but have been so happy with my Neo-Therm on Nitoralis, that it was worth it for me.

I'm still waiting on the filter, and light to be shipped to me, so more to come in the near future!