Official Lifegard Aquatics Crystal (AIO) Aquarium Club!!

[Randall S Simpson]

That is the problem with writing something in the middle of the night is that I get some info wrong, I'm using multiple cycling products and one of them is designed for fish day 1, the others are not.  I have seeded bricks in the back so it will be interesting to see what the measurements did during the first 24 hours.  The first thing hitting the tank with either be a blue leg hermit or something like that, from my experiences they are a lot more hardy than clowns and I would not have to spend half the day trying to net them later.

 

I will go over the sand tonight as it is a live sand and I have not added the bacteria from it, since the ammonia would just kill the water born portion and the top layer of the sand bed.  With nothing stirring up the sand bed the bottom layer should be fine.  I've used multiple cycling methods for years and you just have to keep a close eye on the rocks/sand/glass/test results to really know what is going on in there.  One method may be eating your other method and once it runs out of "food" it will die off and something is going to happen if you don't get that waste out somehow.

[banasophia]

1 hour ago, Randall S Simpson said:

That is the problem with writing something in the middle of the night is that I get some info wrong, I'm using multiple cycling products and one of them is designed for fish day 1, the others are not.  I have seeded bricks in the back so it will be interesting to see what the measurements did during the first 24 hours.  The first thing hitting the tank with either be a blue leg hermit or something like that, from my experiences they are a lot more hardy than clowns and I would not have to spend half the day trying to net them later.

 

I will go over the sand tonight as it is a live sand and I have not added the bacteria from it, since the ammonia would just kill the water born portion and the top layer of the sand bed.  With nothing stirring up the sand bed the bottom layer should be fine.  I've used multiple cycling methods for years and you just have to keep a close eye on the rocks/sand/glass/test results to really know what is going on in there.  One method may be eating your other method and once it runs out of "food" it will die off and something is going to happen if you don't get that waste out somehow.

Hmmm… this just doesn’t sound right. First, what beneficial bacteria products are you using? Second, what do you mean you didn’t add the bacteria from the live sand? And your mention of the ammonia killing the water born portion and top layer of the sand bed doesn’t make sense to me?

 

Also I don’t understand why you would need to “net” the clownfish after you introduce them?

 

If the tank still has ammonia in it from you adding it, you should not add fish or hermits. 

[Randall S Simpson]

The easy one first, I will not be keeping clowns in this tank so if I put them in I then have to find them a home.

 

I just measured everything a few hours early and my ammonia is 1 with .5 nitrite, so things are moving along.  The Primary method would likely be from Brightwell Aquatic's Starter Kit.  The Ocean Direct Live Sand was added then water then ammonia, so any bacteria good or bad that was stirred up from the sand bed or was laying on the surface likely would not survive the addition of the ammonia, no real way to test this since they won't tell you what is in the sand.  Each bag of sand does come with a bag of bacteria to add but I'm waiting until the ammonia is gone so it has the best chance of getting a foothold.  The same with the Eco-pods, they are not going in until the ammonia is gone. 

 

I have never planned to cycle this tank with fish, one of the cycling methods said I could.  I will likely go crabs or snails for ammonia generation after the 6-12 day burn in.  Assuming all goes well.

 

Basically the piece of info your wanting that I just have not got around to covering yet is that the ammonia remover is Microbacter Start XLM plus some seeded bricks with Microbacter7 for a few days.

[Randall S Simpson]

The Live Sand is Ocean Direct Live Sand and it comes damp in a breathable plastic bag to allow air exchange, also it has a packet of some liquid inside each bag.  I added two bags then added water while trying not to disturb the sand.  I'm holding the packets back until the ammonia part of the cycle is over.  Filled the tank to the waterline it will likely be at.  Added the bricks I've been soaking in Microbacter7 into the back area.  Then followed the directions on the Microbacter DryRockStarterKit.

 

Day 1 ammonia around 2

Day 2 ammonia around 1 with nitrites .5

 

I do not have a very accurate ammonia test kit as it is generally pretty easy to tell when you need to test ammonia and any reading is not what you want to see.

[banasophia]

49 minutes ago, Randall S Simpson said:

The Ocean Direct Live Sand was added then water then ammonia, so any bacteria good or bad that was stirred up from the sand bed or was laying on the surface likely would not survive the addition of the ammonia, no real way to test this since they won't tell you what is in the sand.  Each bag of sand does come with a bag of bacteria to add but I'm waiting until the ammonia is gone so it has the best chance of getting a foothold.

Ah, I see… yes that little packet that comes with the Ocean Direct sand threw me off the first time too… it’s not bacteria, it’s a packet their Biomagnet clarifier. It’s designed to “reposition free floating bacteria to bio-filtration surfaces” such as the sand and rock. 

 

 

All the bacteria is already on the sand from the get go, coating it. Some can dispense into the water column when you add the water to the tank, but then the Biomagnet helps it to reattach to the sand and rock and other surfaces. And the ammonia you add doesn’t harm the bacteria (unless it’s over 5 ppm), it feeds them and helps the bacteria colonies grow. There are two main types of beneficial bacteria you need in the tank in the beginning. The first type feeds on the ammonia basically, converting it to nitrite, and then the second type of bacteria converts nitrite to nitrate. Cycling the tank is just making sure your tank has built up enough of the two types of bacteria (which together are called the nitrifying bacteria).

[banasophia]

26 minutes ago, Randall S Simpson said:

The Live Sand is Ocean Direct Live Sand and it comes damp in a breathable plastic bag to allow air exchange, also it has a packet of some liquid inside each bag.  I added two bags then added water while trying not to disturb the sand.  I'm holding the packets back until the ammonia part of the cycle is over.  Filled the tank to the waterline it will likely be at.  Added the bricks I've been soaking in Microbacter7 into the back area.  Then followed the directions on the Microbacter DryRockStarterKit.

 

Day 1 ammonia around 2

Day 2 ammonia around 1 with nitrites .5

 

I do not have a very accurate ammonia test kit as it is generally pretty easy to tell when you need to test ammonia and any reading is not what you want to see.

Your tank looks good! 
 

Here’s some info from Brightwell on cycling with their products.

https://www.brightwellaquatics.com/products/microbacter-start-xlm.php

 

Normally I think you would start with some of their other products first… you wouldn’t add the Microbacter 7 until later on… I think they say 4-6 months after cycling… because it has some additional types of bacteria (the denitrifying bacteria). My understanding is that the denitrifying bacteria easily outcompete the nitrifying bacteria so it’s better to hold off on adding them until the nitrifying bacteria (which are most important) have already had a chance to get a foothold in a new tank. 

[Randall S Simpson]

Yea, to be honest I think I'm overdoing it a bit, I still have the filter and heater to go over (they are already up and running) then add in a few more things over the next few days.  No carbon, protein skimmers ect until the cycle is done, that and I missed a critical piece of plumbing that I have to get from Lifegard.

[Randall S Simpson]

Brightwell is not very clear on that point, they recommend adding bacter7 daily to any tank that is having any issues, all it does is coat surfaces but can not reproduce.  So it is only in there for maybe a day at most.  Any bacter7 I added to the bricks would have died off by now long before I added it too the tank.  Guess that is why they tell you to soak it for at least 24 hours it would remove the coating issue from bacter7 while leaving the media a clean slate to start off with.  If the sand biomagnet is safe up to 5 I might add it tomorrow, so it can have a few days before the cardon and protein skimmer go in.

[banasophia]

From Brightwell’s site I linked:
If you want to switch to MicrōBacter⁷ the best time will be when the aquarium has been running for 4 to 6 months. 

[Randall S Simpson]

23 minutes ago, banasophia said:

From Brightwell’s site I linked:
If you want to switch to MicrōBacter⁷ the best time will be when the aquarium has been running for 4 to 6 months. 

The more I learn about this stuff the more it seem like a bandage that you should only use when you have to, then start tapering off life a drug.  If it is just going to keep recoating everyday and you just keep redosing all that is happening is that Brightwell is making money.  Somehow something good needs to take over the space MB7 is covering.  Maybe pods, but then your just feeding another company money since pods only eat some types of things.  With most of the go to fish being just too big for Nano/Pico that option is out.  Watching my tailspot blenny ignore the algae/diatoms/ect and eat the pods is just maddening!

[Randall S Simpson]

I attached the heater element to the back part of the tank leaving room so the element and the two magnet do not touch anything.  I may or may not add an ATO and magnets will mess this one up.  The temperature probe is in the front of the tank, you need to keep the element and probe as far away as you can or you will get a low flow error.

 

I really like this HOB filter I've had one running for about 18m now and have never had to clean it, it has a flow rate indicator built in and has never moved.  The torch I have in there is very happy with the two waves crashing in the middle of that tank.  I will have to build another DIY mesh lid, something I'm not looking forward too.  I bought a better metal chop saw for the next few lids.

 

This should bring me up to date, until tomorrow night with more water reading.

 

 

[Randall S Simpson]

Added the Live Sand Bio packets and tested the water for today.

 

Day 1 ammonia around 2

Day 2 ammonia around 1 with nitrites .5

Day 3 ammonia around 1 nothing for nitrites or nitrates

[Lebowski_]

I think you are over thinking this a little. If you added bio bricks from an established reef, your tank will cycle with no help. You could always grab some mature rock as well to further help, with the added bonus of adding coralline to the tank.

 

The rockwork looks good, looking forward to seeing this beaut progress.

[banasophia]

3 hours ago, Lebowski_ said:

I think you are over thinking this a little. If you added bio bricks from an established reef, your tank will cycle with no help.

I think he added bio bricks that were new but he soaked in Microbacter 7 for a few days to seed them.

 

I think he is using dry rock, Ocean Direct live sand, ammonia, and the Brightwell Dry Rock Starter Kit, which I think is a fairly new product/combination of products and looks pretty cool. Looking forward to hearing how it works!

[Randall S Simpson]

2 hours ago, banasophia said:

I think he added bio bricks that were new but he soaked in Microbacter 7 for a few days to seed them.

 

I think he is using dry rock, Ocean Direct live sand, ammonia, and the Brightwell Dry Rock Starter Kit, which I think is a fairly new product/combination of products and looks pretty cool. Looking forward to hearing how it works!

Yep, that is a very good overview.  I added a small amount of Eco-pods just because I ordered a 4 pack to use the other 3 jars to reseed other tanks.  $55 for one jar or $99 for 4 jars.  Hard Choice.  The last jar I'll add in about 4-6 days depending on the testing.

 

I'm mixing and matching methods that have worked well for me in the past, just the Ocean Direct sand used as directed can get you cycled in 6-8 days pretty reliably.  But then again you can go the fish only route and start day one with something as long as you test and test and test all day long.  Think quarantine tank then turning it into a reef.  It does work, although you better have good test kits, and never add copper! 

[Randall S Simpson]

From my work this morning, I started working on two of the mesh lids.  Anyone planning on doing this make sure you know what you are doing these metal cutting tools are VERY dangerous.  I would highly recommend if you are doing more than one to pay the $60-100 and get a 6" metal chop saw.  The 3" ones just don't have the power and doing one with a hacksaw is fine, the 2nd one makes the $60 worth it.  Or borrow your neighbors tools!  There are a lot of different tools that work just fine depending on which brand you end up going with.  Red Sea railing is very strong and thus hard to cut through, BRS is supposed to be in the middle and the stuff at your local hardware store being the weakest and easiest to cut and bend.  I am using Red Sea.

 

I cut the top, bottom and right sides, the left side will have a hob filter so some custom work will be required otherwise the frames would be done and I would only need to add the mesh. 

 

 

[Randall S Simpson]

On to something more interesting, I added some Eco-pods to my 4g and my two clams in there seemed to enjoy the treat.  Every time I went to take a photo they closed up, this is the best I could get.  They are actually open about 1/2" more.  The larger one is over 4" with the smaller one just at 3"  

 

Sorry for the light in the first photo but no way around it without a lot of work.

 

I really need to get the larger clam out but moving clams is tricky and it has been in there since it was a baby.

[Randall S Simpson]

Testing from today

 

Day 1 ammonia around 2

Day 2 ammonia around 1 with nitrites .5

Day 3 ammonia around 1 nothing for nitrites or nitrates

Day 4 ammonia around .75 nothing for nitrites or nitrates

 

Directions said I could add more MicroBacterStartXLM, if my ammonia or nitrites are over .25 at a lower amount so I followed the directions on the bottle (adding 10ml per 25g).

 

Looks like they are going from a cycled tank to one that will require MicroBacterClean within days then Microbacter7 after that.  Seems like they are missing something in the cycling process if you have to keep adding bacteria, I've had stable and unstable tanks for years and some I just can't mess up, some I just can't fix, then that one tank that as long as I give it 5 minutes of attention a day everything is great miss one day and...

[Randall S Simpson]

Kind of interesting, I added the StartXLM and my ammonia went up?

 

Day 1 ammonia around 2

Day 2 ammonia around 1 with nitrites .5

Day 3 ammonia around 1 nothing for nitrites or nitrates

Day 4 ammonia around .75 nothing for nitrites or nitrates

Day 5 ammonia around 1 nothing for nitrites or nitrates

[mcarroll]

2 minutes ago, Randall S Simpson said:

I added the StartXLM and my ammonia went up?

Seems like that would imply the bacteria just died when you added them, releasing their N+P in the process.

 

But are you sure your test kit is that accurate?   Is it possible that all of the results from Days 2-5 are "about 1 ppm" and not showing any real change yet?

[Randall S Simpson]

I would not use the test kit to get an accurate reading but for ammonia a general ballpark is enough to know when to wait or go forward.  The Nitrite and Nitrate kits are much more accurate.

 

But the ammonia reading was clearly higher, the bacteria explanation is probably correct.  I'm in no hurry still have a lot of work that needs done.  Just finished up the custom frame for the mesh top and will be reinforcing it tomorrow with glue then adding the mesh + spline.  All day project for me.

[Randall S Simpson]

Finished up the custom part of the mesh frame late last night and added more glue to the weaker points on the frame.  I will add more glue in the next few days.  I just finished with the mesh and spline.  I only cut 2 squares this time so that is progress, nothing large enough to worry about unless you have a tiny fish that just wants to die.

 

I would highly recommend watching 2-4 videos on DIY mesh lids before you decide on which version to get and a good idea of what to do and what not too.

[Randall S Simpson]

Day 1 ammonia around 2

Day 2 ammonia around 1 with nitrites .5

Day 3 ammonia around 1 nothing for nitrites or nitrates

Day 4 ammonia around .75 nothing for nitrites or nitrates

Day 5 ammonia around 1 nothing for nitrites or nitrates

Day 6 ammonia perfectly on 1 nothing for nitrites and a tiny amount of nitrates (would need to get out my better test kit to find out how much, but no reason yet too early)

 

[Randall S Simpson]

Got the three Heater controller holders from Printed Reef, but the hole positions just would not work for me.  I probably could have just asked them to change the positions but whatever.

[Randall S Simpson]

Day 1 ammonia around 2

Day 2 ammonia around 1 with nitrites .5

Day 3 ammonia around 1 nothing for nitrites or nitrates

Day 4 ammonia around .75 nothing for nitrites or nitrates

Day 5 ammonia around 1 nothing for nitrites or nitrates

Day 6 ammonia perfectly on 1 nothing for nitrites and a tiny amount of nitrates (would need to get out my better test kit to find out how much, but no reason yet too early)

Day 7 ammonia around .75 nothing for nitrites or nitrates

 

About to run out of ammonia regent so I've ordered a better test kit.  Since it looks like this will take at least a week longer than usual.