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Joe's IM 20: Got a couple clowns, call it a circus ūüé™


Joevember

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I have no experienc with this brown jelly stuff - after some reading it sounds really frustrating, and I am sorry. I can't say that this would work at all, but whenever I see an issue that is persistent and possibly bacterial on any organism, I begin a 1/2 dose regimen of Microbe Lift Artemiss and work it up to 1x or 1.5x dose depending on inhabitant responses - results for me have been positive. Again, I don't know, but it may be worth a try...

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11 hours ago, Joevember said:

I'm not sure the torches would like being in the other tank. The parameters fluctuate much more and I don't dose. I wish I could have a quarentine system for times like this. 

It might be worth it if you can find a good spot for them to ride this out so it doesn't spread to them. I'd hate to lose all the torches. 

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Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpd10Io2wyc - summary at 9:00 - maybe boosting immune responses w/aminos could help

This looks like a useful amino option: https://www.amazon.com/Amino-Acid-Concentrate-LPS-Korallen-Zucht/dp/B01F4808XG 

This could be extreme: https://www.amazon.com/BulkSupplements-L-Histidine-HCL-Powder-grams/dp/B00GGZFWKG?th=1 (dips? ...experimental)

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Alrighty, so I did get the microbe lift artemiss. I figured that it couldn't do any more harm since it's "reef safe" and it was only $5. Just dosed it, the water turned opaque and then cleared up after a while. Corals are looking puffy, but in a weird way. I'll give an update on the torches if I see anything, the non dark green ones are all fully extending.

Forgot to mention I did a 30% WC to clean out the rear chambers and sandbed.

 

I started¬†thinking about the outbreak differently today.¬†Maybe since there were so many of the same species of coral all in a very enclosed space, all in proximity of each other, that it was easy for a parasite/bacteria/protozoa¬†to spread and take them all out. Just like how in agriculture, it's a bad idea to have a huge monoculture of one crop since pests or disease can adapt extremely quickly to the environment and cause tons of damage. The tank is such an enclosed space that things can spread throughout in a matter of minutes and potentially affect the whole system. Sometimes I call the tank my slice of the reef, and it really is just a slice. The real reefs have thousands of species constantly competing which keeps the ecosystem balanced, but in a 20 gallon tank you can only have so many different things to keep things in check. You can't get the sustainable diversity in a¬†reef tank so you have to try and replicate the natural system. I've been trying to think about how to get my populations of microbes balanced to consume the BJD. Just my thoughts here... ūüôÉ

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Okay, it's been a week since I started dosing the microbe lift, and things are holding on. It was labeled as reef safe but I'm not 100% sure about that claim. The first day I dosed the stuff, the brittle stars I had in the rocks all came out and convulsed on the sandbed. I took a few out and tossed them into the pico where they are doing better. The ones that I didn't move dropped a couple arms and are still surviving.

I also noticed that my snails were not enjoying the stuff either. When I first dosed it I saw my trochus and ninja star snail drop off the glass and close up completely. I didn't see much change in behavior for my hermit crabs though, so it affects inverts differently. The snails are all fine currently.

Another concerning thing I saw on the first day of dosing was a thick white mucus looking substance that was building up on the two neon green torch branches in the back. It wasn't the coral expelling waste since it was white and was covering the tissue. After I cleared it away with a turkey baster it didn't come back. I noticed that the tips of the some of the tentacles were missing, so it could have been bleached tissue that came off from dosing. I should've taken pictures to show, but they are fine when I dose the stuff now.

The other torches didn't have a reaction like that at all. They just shrank up. The dark green torches are having trouble with a brown filament algae growing by their bases. I might use some peroxide to spot treat it if it gets worse.

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I also noticed some bleaching on the tip of my new pink digi. Nothing too bad, but still concerning. Can't say if it's related.

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There are a couple corals that seem to enjoy the microbe lift. Mainly the cynarina and bubble coral. The cynarina is easily 9 inches across at its widest parts most of the time. The bubble coral is inflating quite a bit more than usual; I might have to move some stuff away from its sweepers soon. 

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If you can see in the picture, the red planet acropora is also finally getting its green back. I got it bleached, and it was just red for quite a while. 

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Other than that I started dosing coral amino by brightwell. It was a highly rated amino supplement, and it wasn't overpriced like the zeovit products are. Dosing this should help the corals immune system fight anything bad. 

I'm thinking I'll stop dosing the microbe lift after 10 days as recommended on the bottle. I wouldn't recommend this stuff unless your corals really need it and you can't lose them.

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Just lost the gold torch. It was completely closed the whole day, and the tissue was coming off the base around the edges. I did a quick dip in H2O2 after the lights went, and the torch reacted very strangely to the dip. It was floating in the cup. The H2O2 was able to get inside the tissue and oxidize it, causing oxygen bubbles to form inside the tentacles and make it float. Since the tissue around the base was completely gone, the slime coat couldn't protect the insides from the dip. 

If I had dipped it in a different coral dip it looked like it was going to either melt away into jelly, or bailout into the powerhead. Sad to see it go, still.

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The last torches I have right now are the dark green ones and neon green ones, which were my first torches in the hobby. I'm betting that the neon torches will live through this, they seem the least phased by this whole thing and I haven't seen much tissue recession at all on them.

I might try and move all of the torches to the rock in the back and put something new up front on the left. I've been seeing some cool bubble coral lately, or I could move my acans over to the rockwork. I don't think I'll be getting more torches any time soon, which really sucks because they're still my favorite coral species. Hopefully I can keep some in the future when I get my tank under control.

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Sorry to hear about the brown jelly... The tank looks great otherwise. 

 

I encountered this issue once about 8 years ago with a blue hammer coral (euphyllia anchora). It seemed to me that these types of LPS are more prone to develop this bacterial outbreak when they grew thick enough that water flow was prevented from reaching throughout the tentacles to the entire structure and detritus was allowed to settle within. I managed to have luck with large water changes 50ish % while siphoning the jelly off the skeleton and vaccuming the nearby sandbed everyday for the week or so it persisted. Increasing water flow in that area of the tank seemed to help as well. I'm not sure if it'll help you, but I managed to save half of the colony that way. 

 

Hope that can be of some help. 

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I've noticed a couple things the past few months. For one the chaeto is no longer growing as fast as it once was. It used to double every 2-3 weeks, but for the past couple months, and even before the whole BJD outbreak, the growth seemed stunted. I can't remeber the last time I took a sizeable clump out during a water change. (The chaeto isn't dying and hasn't lost any color either) On top of that the flow is so slow through the chamber that cyano can build up quickly in the chaeto (but it's always been there so it's not the reason the growth has slowed recently.

The second thing I've been seeing is that there is a lot of particulate matter, detritus, and brown algae floating in the water column. The filter pads pick most of it up, but it gets exhausted after only a couple days. I don't mention it much, but the tank is pretty dirty.

After reading through some TOTMs, I've been thinking that instead of making big changes to my routine, maintenence, and dosing, that I should change up my filtration.

The first reef tank I kept was a 65 gallon (which I'm missing right now) with a 29 gallon sump. I ran an oversized skimmer on it that worked amazingly. The things I do for my 20 gallon really haven't changed at all, the feeding and bioload have actually increased since downsizing which puts more strain on the filtration. 

I'm really opening up to the idea of a skimmer to replace the refugium chamber. I know I've said that I will always run a fuge on all my systems till the end of time a couple times on this site, but I dont see my fuge doing anything except for giving me more stuff to clean out of the back chamber. Plus the marine pure spheres already do a whole lot for my invert and microbe populations. 

So I'll be on the lookout for a skimmer. If I start seeing negative changes then I can just switch back to the fuge and try out a better spectrum light. I've been looking at HOB skimmers. I really like the Reef Octopus skimmers and I've also checked out the Aquamaxx HOB-1 as well. I can also do more coral feedings if I have something to pull the extra food out.

 

 

 

TL;DR: Investing more in livestock than filtration, need some better equipment. Skimmer is looking good for plans. 

 

Please let me know what you think of this, I really appreciate your feedback. I'll get some tank shots tonight to supplement these huge blocks of text too.

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I think upping the filtration is a great idea. I'm kinda in the same boat with my seahorse tank. Nutrients are piling up but my fuge ins't growing like it used to. I have a ghetto-fabuolous Bubble Mangus skimmer I rigged with a DC needle wheel pump that's an absolute workhorse but it isn't enough. Might try bio-pellets.

 

For your tank, definitely get a large HOB skimmer, the AquaMaxx is fantastic. Avoid small skimmers that fit in the back, those are useless in my opinion, my old Tunze 9002 was an expensive paper weight. 

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4 hours ago, Fish_Wiz said:

I think upping the filtration is a great idea. I'm kinda in the same boat with my seahorse tank. Nutrients are piling up but my fuge ins't growing like it used to. I have a ghetto-fabuolous Bubble Mangus skimmer I rigged with a DC needle wheel pump that's an absolute workhorse but it isn't enough. Might try bio-pellets.

 

For your tank, definitely get a large HOB skimmer, the AquaMaxx is fantastic. Avoid small skimmers that fit in the back, those are useless in my opinion, my old Tunze 9002 was an expensive paper weight. 

Thanks, I'm definitelty going to get an oversized one. The internal ones seem lile they would be a pain to keep clean too. I just found an aquamaxx for cheap near me, and an IM desktop reactor for only 20. I think biopellets sound good for my setup too. 

 

Close up shots:

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The neon green torches have been receeding a bit. Hopefully when I get the new equipment they will be happy again, which should be this weekend. I'm going with the aquamaxx 1.5 and IM reactor with biopellets. I think I'll be done with water quality problems after this. 

Other than that nothing much has happened since last week. My new black nassarius died, and I'm pretty sure that it was a nassarius olivaceus. I never saw it eat, so it might just go for chuncks of meat lying around.

Got some pics too. Here are some of my LPS looking extra chunky today

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And I think Gills found a new best friend to sit around with

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New SPS looking real pink

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FTS as always ūüėĄ20190730_201054.thumb.jpg.f3682ca214af9cc2aef233143eeed851.jpg

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2 hours ago, ReeferBray said:

Stil a beautiful tank mate what you plan on doing with this tank after new one has arrived 

I think that once I get the new equipment (should be monday) I'll move all the remaining torches to the back left rock and take out the left front one. Then I'm going to see what I can move around on the sandbed to fill it in. After that I'm going to be 8 miles away from the tank at college, so everything I have will just be growing in by then. I move in mid September and no tanks allowed in the dorms, so nothing new for a while after that. 

I think that I my plan for now is to get the tank as low maintenence as possible for the 'caretaker' when I'm gone. I'll be stopping by at home periodically to check up on the tank and give updates here.

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17 hours ago, Joevember said:

I think that once I get the new equipment (should be monday)

I think we're buying from the same seller lol, I'm grabbing the large reactor Monday too. 

 

Also best of luck in college, it's easy to get caught up with school, definitely check in on your tank often if you can.

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26 minutes ago, Fish_Wiz said:

I think we're buying from the same seller lol, I'm grabbing the large reactor Monday too. 

 

Also best of luck in college, it's easy to get caught up with school, definitely check in on your tank often if you can.

He's got some cheap stuff up, can't pass up on it.

I'm less than an hour away, so if I start getting lazy you guys gotta remind me to get back and check on things! ūüėĄ

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Just spent a while biking to pick up the new equipment. The skimmer by itself barely fit in my backpack, much bigger than I though, gonna be a beast. I think I'm going to have to move the stand forward a couple inches when I get back home... ugh

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Just got it up and running. Fits very snug in the 2nd chamber. It's pretty loud right now, constant gurgling from the air intake... I'm expecting someone to be mad at me once they get home for this. I also have it at almost the highest point for the collection cup and it's still skimming wet, breaking in I guess ūü§∑‚Äć‚ôāÔłŹ

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Since I want to keep the bio balls in there, I'm going to ditch one of the media racks. I'll be running one rack with filter floss, 2 chemi pures on rotation, and the bag of purigen. Then I'll put the reactor in where the rack was and run bio pellets. I think I'll have it situated right next to the skimmer chamber. I'll start off tumbling 1/3 of the recommended dose and work up to what the tank likes from there.

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Elizabeth94

You will love that skimmer. I just cleaned my hob-1 yesterday and even though I have no use for it I am having a hard time convincing myself to let it go. They work so good! The only downside is the noise.

 

I love that bubble coral. Adds such a neat ‚Äútexture‚ÄĚ to the scape.¬†

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13 minutes ago, Elizabeth94 said:

You will love that skimmer. I just cleaned my hob-1 yesterday and even though I have no use for it I am having a hard time convincing myself to let it go. They work so good! The only downside is the noise.

 

I love that bubble coral. Adds such a neat ‚Äútexture‚ÄĚ to the scape.¬†

Oh well, I've been sitting next to it for half an hour and it doesn't bother me any more. The bubble coral was one of my first corals I started out with. One of my favorites in there. 

I don't know if I shared it on here but here's an even more interesting bubble coral that's at my LFS. Very purple in pic, but it's more of a grey/cobalt blue.

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I'm figuring out how much biopellet to put in the reactor. I think the recommended dose should be around 2-4 oz if my math is right. I'll start off 3/4 oz tonight.

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Think I'm dont working on the tank for today, so final update for today, I promise. The skimmer has already put out some dark stuff, but still a little too wet.

I also took a small screwdriver inside the tank to take out about 30 vermetid snails. It's really hard to take them out once they establish in your system. In just 2 weeks they were everywhere in my tank and I was sick of their slime strings.

Another pest that has been popping up are colonial hydroids. They are pretty much on every surface of the tank besides the glass and sand. It's hard to see them on the rock looking straight on, but when you look at an angle there are tons. I've been seeing them on my trumpet coral's skeleton and also my sps' dead bits, which is concerning. When I put the skimmer in I had a light to see in the chamber and I was shocked when I saw that in the final chamber hydroids were completely covering everything, really bad. I just put my hand in there and brushed them off, which reminds me that I need to wash my hands after working on the tank... Wish I had water ready for a WC after I cleaned the chamber out.

‚úĆ

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Just fed the tank. Everything ia hanging on. The tank has slowly been looking cleaner by the day. Skimmer is pulling out some dark sludge too. 

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