My NIGHTMARE!

[Oldsalt01]

2 yo 14g Biocube, slightly modified rear chambers, upgraded pump to MJ900. As anyone following this forum probably knows I've become increasingly frustrated with my inability to keep zoas, and now Acans, to the point where I'm ready to switch over to Lake Malawi Cichlids and put reefing behind me. I test every other day and my parameters are where they should be, with the exception of the Alk which drops daily (yes, I always test in the a.m.), which doesn't surprise me considering the amount of Coralline I have. Tanks inhabitants are: 2 bonded Ocellaris, a Tail-spot Blenny, 2 Trochus, a  few Dwarf Ceriths, One Florida Cerith, a very lazy Mithrax crab, two blue-legged and 2 red-legged Hermits, a small clump of unidentified paly's or zoa's (I'm not sure which, but seem to be benefiting from target feeding Reef 'Roids 2x/week), a disappearing Armegeddon, two frags of melting Acans (you can see what's left of the front, center), and one very healthy and prosperous Leather Toadstool. Accenting these is some lovely GHA (top Left), burgeoning Bubble Algae (top Right and increasing alarmingly), and some extensive turf algae due to a lack of bottom sand. Nitrates: 5ppm, Phosphates: 0 (low-range test), Ph 8.4, Salinity 1.025, Mag: 1360. Feedback, folks. I need direction, or I'm gonna I pull the pin!

 

 

[BustytheSnowMaam]

Noo!  Don't pull the plug!  The best thing is to keep up with water changes and keep pulling the turf algae.  If you keep the lights off for a day, it's easier to pull the algae the next day.  Is your mithrax an emerald mithrax?  If he's not eating the bubble algae, he IS lazy.   Make sure you're not overfeeding.  I feed about twice a week.  

 

I think that toadstool leather (sarcophyton) is causing some kind of allelopathy towards the acans.  Sarcos release a chemical "fart" that irritates some LPS and SPS corals.  Assuming you were target-feeding the acans regularly, they're usually pretty easy keepers.  You could try running some activated carbon in one of the chambers to absorb the chemicals put out by the toadstool.   

[Clown79]

If you use carbon, that will remove the toxins from the leather.

 

I have 2 leathers, a nepthea and toadstool with acans, and favia. I change carbon every 2-3 weeks. The only time i had issues with acans was when alk drops and too much flow on them.

 

Are you dosing to replenish the daily drop in alk or are you relying only on waterchanges?

 

If you have daily alk drops and not dosing-thats most likely the issue.

 

As for gha- we need more info on your maintenance routine: media used and change outs, do you vacuum sand, do you clean back chambers etc.

 

If there isn't a lot of the you can spot treat with 3% hydrogen peroxide.

I've done it and it works 

 

Do It on waterchange days. Turn off all flow(15mins at least), spot treat the gha with a syringe, do waterchange 

 

 

[seabass]

6 hours ago, Oldsalt01 said:

Phosphates: 0 (low-range test)

Curious, which kit?

 

I'm interested because you have algae.  Now the algae could be utilizing the available phosphate.   It's hard to manage phosphate when you have nuisance algae.

 

Phosphate is an important nutrient.  Without algae the target range is 0.01 to 0.03ppm.

 

I don't really trust mithrax crabs (very opportunistic feeders).  And even the ones that eat bubble algae, tend to spread it as much as they eat it.  For your hair algae, you might also try adding a turbo snail.

 

Yeah, it can be very frustrating.  But I'd be tempted to replace all the rock, dip your corals, and start over.  You could cure/cycle the rock in a separate container before you switch it out.  It's kind of a desperate move, but maybe a new start is what you need.

[Oldsalt01]

Phosphate kit is a brand new Salifert low-range kit. The kit I had before was high-res and I didn't realize it. Obviously I have a nuisance algae problem and it's been an issue for about a year. I suppose I could put my fish in my quarantine tank but it's only a 5.5g and I'm concerned it's too small for all my critters to survive until the main cycles again, especially the Toadstool because it's solidly attached to one of the biggest rocks. I might be able to frag that piece but am very nervous about that.

[seabass]

I wouldn't put the fish in quarantine while trying to cycle the tank again.  Instead, (if you really wanted to reboot the tank) cure/cycle the new rock in a different, separate container.  This could be a 5 gallon bucket with a powerhead, your 5.5 gallon QT tank, or some other tank or container.  There are even ways to prep dry rock for livestock.  Once the new rock is cured or prepped, then you can swap everything out.  I'd probably even replace the sand.  You can save the old rock and sand for later use.  If interested, I could explain a couple of ways to clean and store them.

[Oldsalt01]

Not much sand to save. Pretty much bare bottom. The buckets a great idea, but shouldn't I sterilize the tank to prevent recontamination, esp from the BA?

[seabass]

Yeah, I'd clean it up good.  When you are ready (after the new live rock is cured, or the dry rock is prepped), I'd:

• remove some water into two 5 gallon buckets
• in the first bucket, place any rocks that have corals on them that you wish to save
• put the fish, crabs, and snails into the second bucket
• clean out your equipment and tank with a vinegar and water solution
• add some new saltwater to your tank
• add the new rocks and any sand (if you wish)
• match the temperature of the tank with the temperature of the water in the buckets
• return the fish and inverts to the tank
• frag (and dip) any of the corals you wish to save (making sure not to leave any bubble algae on the frag) and return them to your tank

[Oldsalt01]

3 hours ago, seabass said:

Yeah, I'd clean it up good.  When you are ready (after the new live rock is cured, or the dry rock is prepped), I'd:

• remove some water into two 5 gallon buckets
• in the first bucket, place any rocks that have corals on them that you wish to save
• put the fish, crabs, and snails into the second bucket
• clean out your equipment and tank with a vinegar and water solution
• add some new saltwater to your tank
• add the new rocks and any sand (if you wish)
• match the temperature of the tank with the temperature of the water in the buckets
• return the fish and inverts to the tank
• frag any of the corals you wish to save (making sure not to leave any bubble algae on the frag) and return them to your tank

Sound advice, my friend. Makes perfect sense and doesn't seem as much work as I had feared. I suppose I could cycle the new rock in my QT ( ya, I know. No rock in a QT. It's never had any chemicals put in there).  It already has 2 pieces of cured rock in it without GHA or ba and a little coralline so that should jump start the new rock, nicht zo? I have some dry left from the original set up but I'll have to get more. Thanx for sharing your wisdom.

[seabass]

One more piece of advice.  If you are planning on using dry rock, build up the biofilter on it first, then add it to your cured live rock.

 

To build up the biofilter on dry rock, follow the fishless cycling guide: http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/fishless-cycling

[Oldsalt01]

14 hours ago, seabass said:

One more piece of advice.  If you are planning on using dry rock, build up the biofilter on it first, then add it to your cured live rock.

 

To build up the biofilter on dry rock, follow the fishless cycling guide: http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/fishless-cycling

I used Dr Tim's for the original cycle and it's great stuff! Should I get rid of the Toadstool? If it's causing issues because of chemical warfare it's gone, even though it's about the only thing I seem to be successful with. I'm running stock carbon insert that i changes out every other month. I've modified the second chamber to floss which I change weekly with the water change over ceramic balls in an eggcrate media basket. One of these days I'll get a REAL media basket because I suspect my flow through there is not as efficient as it should be and I'd like to go to a 'fuge. Opinion?

[seabass]

I'd ditch the ceramic balls (in stages so you don't overwhelm the biofilter).  I'd probably switch to another brand of activated carbon like BRS ROX 0.8, and change it out every week or two.  The toadstool will be waging some warfare, but keeping your activated carbon fresh should counteract that.

 

I'd also probably get the inTank media basket for that tank: http://shop.mediabaskets.com/BioCube-14_c15.htm

 

You could run a chaeto fuge with an underwater light in one of the chambers if you wanted.

The image is sideways.

[Oldsalt01]

41 minutes ago, seabass said:

I'd ditch the ceramic balls (in stages so you don't overwhelm the biofilter).  I'd probably switch to another brand of activated carbon like BRS ROX 0.8, and change it out every week or two.  The toadstool will be waging some warfare, but keeping your activated carbon fresh should counteract that.

 

I'd also probably get the inTank media basket for that tank: http://shop.mediabaskets.com/BioCube-14_c15.htm

 

You could run a chaeto fuge with an underwater light in one of the chambers if you wanted.

The image is sideways.

My thoughts exactly! I'm not crazy about the stock carbon insert and think the BRS is a better idea too. I learning!

[Oldsalt01]

Is it possible that my GHA and BA are up taking the phosphates so fast that this is why my tests read 0???? This was suggested when I was at my trusty LFS today getting RO/DI.

[1891Bro]

2 minutes ago, Oldsalt01 said:

Is it possible that my GHA and BA are up taking the phosphates so fast that this is why my tests read 0???? This was suggested when I was at my trusty LFS today getting RO/DI.

Yes that's totally possible. 

[Nano sapiens]

Here's what I see:

 

1.  Three fish in effectively 12g of water (two, the Clownfish, are quite heavy feeders):  Certainly possible (I had two Clowns for years in my 12g), but requires regular/sufficient export of detritus and careful attention to feeding (feed fish sufficiently, but try to eliminate excess left over food).

 

2.  Sparce coral cover:  Corals (along with their symbiotic algae, Zooxanthellae) are effective competitors for space and nutrients when enough are present.  They secrete very little waste into the environment, so add more...which will then help in the control of algae.  I've been on this Nano site (and others) since I started my nano over 9 years ago, and I've seen many cases just like this with little coral and algae issues.

 

3. No sand bed to house bacteria (helps nitrification/denitrification when maintained properly):  While a reef tank can be maintained with just live rock, when the bioload is relatively heavy in relation to the water volume, a properly maintained sand bed can provide the additional substrate needed by bacteria (nitrification/denitrification).

 

4.  A two year old tank is still quite young and hasn't yet reached a mature/stable state:  A small amount of algae in a relatively young system like this is common, but shouldn't be in plague proportions.

 

5.  Zoas and Acans having issues:  A very common cause for Zoas and Mussids (Acans, Blastos) not thriving are the large, adult Gammarus Amphipods ('little 'hunchback' critters, 3/8 - 1/2" long).  They tend to come out at night and are especially fond of munching on Zoa skirts! Take a look a night time and see if you have this problem.

 

What is your water change schedule?  

 

How often do you remove detritus?

 

Personally, I'm not a fan of replacing live rock as it already harbors the bacteria required for the system to flourish.  In nearly all instances, the existing rock will improve over time once maintenance and other variables are fixed/improved.

 

 

 

 

[brandon429]

 

 

I view changing out live rock like I would changing out my dog for a buddy that is a little less messy. whatever the ailment, we can meet it dynamically and consistently going back to some core basics well covered so far

 

on second thought that's some rare coralline, looks like its lived under power compacts a good while, wanna trade for my dog

[seabass]

On 8/24/2017 at 9:06 PM, Oldsalt01 said:

As anyone following this forum probably knows I've become increasingly frustrated with my inability to keep zoas, and now Acans, to the point where I'm ready to switch over to Lake Malawi Cichlids and put reefing behind me.

Being on the verge of giving up is why I made that recommendation.  I've fought these problems before and know the frustration.  It's hard enough to battle when you are really into the hobby.  My suggestion offered an alternative to giving up.

[Nano sapiens]

As is common in this hobby, there are multiple opinions/ways of doing things that can all be 'correct'.  Much depends on the 'patience quota' of the reefer

[Lula_Mae]

Some great advice offered here.  Personally I'm wondering if that mithrax crab doesn't munch on your corals sometimes...have heard of that happening!

[1891Bro]

58 minutes ago, Lula_Mae said:

Some great advice offered here.  Personally I'm wondering if that mithrax crab doesn't munch on your corals sometimes...have heard of that happening!

Crabs are bad. In the tank, or the pubes, just bad news. 

[Oldsalt01]

The Mithrax is a very recent addition and I've been losing stuff for a long time. And seeing as how he doesn't seem to be holding up his end of the bargain I'm gonna pull him out IF I can ever find him again. I was talking to my guy at my trusty LFS today and he mentioned "Vibrant" as an option..... no, he wasn't trying to sell me any, but he did mention it took care of an outbreak of GHA he had in his 200g. I'll do more research on that, but Seabass' advice and pointers make the most sense to me. I just hate to lose all that beautiful Coralline. Part of the problem is that one of the new acan heads is still alive but the plug is absolutely covered in hair algae (not mine, a different look to it than mine, so I think it came with the plug) and I have no idea how to clean that up without trashing the head. The other plug of Acans that was doing well suddenly started to shrivel up. I lost one head overnight (!!!) and the other one over the course of a couple of days. Just melted away. Wasn't the crab, I had them sequestered and there's NO way he could have got to them.

[Lula_Mae]

18 minutes ago, Oldsalt01 said:

The Mithrax is a very recent addition and I've been losing stuff for a long time. And seeing as how he doesn't seem to be holding up his end of the bargain I'm gonna pull him out IF I can ever find him again. I was talking to my guy at my trusty LFS today and he mentioned "Vibrant" as an option..... no, he wasn't trying to sell me any, but he did mention it took care of an outbreak of GHA he had in his 200g. I'll do more research on that, but Seabass' advice and pointers make the most sense to me. I just hate to lose all that beautiful Coralline. Part of the problem is that one of the new acan heads is still alive but the plug is absolutely covered in hair algae (not mine, a different look to it than mine, so I think it came with the plug) and I have no idea how to clean that up without trashing the head. The other plug of Acans that was doing well suddenly started to shrivel up. I lost one head overnight (!!!) and the other one over the course of a couple of days. Just melted away. Wasn't the crab, I had them sequestered and there's NO way he could have got to them.

You could try careful spot treatment with peroxide.  Do you have Lugol's iodine?  You could try a dip on the ailing stuff.

[JcSH2o]

Just wondering about something regarding that Coralline... 

 

If you follow the advice of @seabass, could you not treat the existing rock for GHA outside of the tank while saving the Coralline? Then once all is good, replace each rock back into your tank over time if that were your desire. 

 

Don't know if that's even feesible.... 

 

[samnaz]

The best way to get rid of bubble algae is manually. Do it yourself, don't rely on a mithrax crab.

 

While you have been waiting for your crab to eat that algae, it's begun to spread big time. The longer you wait, the worse it gets, and the more difficult manual removal will be.

 

When I first spotted a tiny bubble algae in my tank, I removed it immediately instead of relying on my emerald crab to eat it. That was months ago, and I haven't had another bubble algae since. 

 

If you can take out the piece of rock with bubble algae on it, and remove the algae outside of the tank, that is the safest method. After removal, use a Qtip to apply some H202 to the area, and you're good to go.