Shadow's 16G Disaster. Fumigation Poisoned the Tank and Crashed It.

[FlowerMama]

I've certainly never seen mandarins like that. Definitely a cute couple. Love their pouty looking lips.

[spazizz]

If it's brook, it's not a lost cause. I beat it using hypo and rid ich+ which i think is the same as quick cure.

I know, they're horrible little bugs.

 

 

As for the tank, I did a WC yesterday and things looked fine. I brought the rockwork to the very front to accomodate the new in-tank fuge arriving tomorrow/day after with Chaeto, and I had to juggle around with some coral pieces to make everything 'fit'. The display looks a bit too cramped if you ask me.

 

This morning however, I noticed both my clowns were paler than usual and breathing slightly heavily. They weren't gasping yet, and weren't completely washed out, but I anyways set up a hospital tank and placed them both in it with some Metronidazole. Might include some antibiotics as well if it progresses into something else. I'm just hoping it's not Brook, or it's pretty much a lost cause.

[Snow_Phoenix]

On 9/30/2014 at 10:15 AM, ninjamyst said:

Sorry to hear about LFS A killing all your corals. That sucks! But awesome your clowns AND mandarins paired up right away. Hope the clowns get well soon. Your mandarins are just too cute!

 

Thank you, Ninja. And I have something to show you:

 

 

 

Managed to snap a pic of my palys chowing down on unchopped mysis shrimp. One paly in the middle of the pic has already ingested it - only the tip of the shrimp is sticking out of its mouth.

 

On 9/30/2014 at 10:23 AM, 1stimereefer said:

I've certainly never seen mandarins like that. Definitely a cute couple. Love their pouty looking lips.

 

Thank you so much. They certainly hang around each other so much. I spoke to my parents - if all goes well, next year I'll be finally healthy enough to hold a temp job and get a nice 2' x 2' x 2' cube tank. Bet my Mandys will love the extra space to swim around in.

 

On 9/30/2014 at 10:23 AM, spazizz said:

If it's brook, it's not a lost cause. I beat it using hypo and rid ich+ which i think is the same as quick cure.

 

Hypo + rid ich+? Can rid ich+ be substituted with something like Punktol Ultra (has malachite green, methylene blue and crystal violet)?

[ninjamyst]

awesome pic! thanks to you, i started feeding my palys and zoas with some Larry's Reef Frenzy and the palys with long skirts really do eat them!

[Snow_Phoenix]

awesome pic! thanks to you, i started feeding my palys and zoas with some Larry's Reef Frenzy and the palys with long skirts really do eat them!

 

That's good to hear. Don't be surprised if your palys and zoas actually increase in size a little bit after healthy weekly feedings. Mine sure did.

[spazizz]

I think the key part is the Formaldehyde.

 

Ingrediants to rich ich-

 

Contains: Formaldehyde (11.52% formalin) U.S.P. grade 4.26% and premium quality zinc-free chloride salt of malachite green 0.038%

Thank you, Ninja. And I have something to show you:

 

 

Managed to snap a pic of my palys chowing down on unchopped mysis shrimp. One paly in the middle of the pic has already ingested it - only the tip of the shrimp is sticking out of its mouth.

 

Thank you so much. They certainly hang around each other so much. I spoke to my parents - if all goes well, next year I'll be finally healthy enough to hold a temp job and get a nice 2' x 2' x 2' cube tank. Bet my Mandys will love the extra space to swim around in.

 

 

Hypo + rid ich+? Can rid ich+ be substituted with something like Punktol Ultra (has malachite green, methylene blue and crystal violet)?

[Tamberav]

Everything I read says hypo does not effect brook. Never personally had to deal with it though.

 

Rid Ich sounds promising though (formalin).

 

 

I think the key part is the Formaldehyde.

 

Ingrediants to rich ich-

 

Contains: Formaldehyde (11.52% formalin) U.S.P. grade 4.26% and premium quality zinc-free chloride salt of malachite green 0.038%

[Snow_Phoenix]

Okay, noted. Thank you both. Looks like a trip to the store is in order - need to find a med with formaldehyde in it. The industrial formaldehyde is difficult to get a hold of over here. Only problem is, my folks loaned my car to my uncle last night after he crashed his into a baboon crossing the highway yesterday evening. His compressor and radiator broke completely and will be in the workshop + insurance claims = 2 weeks before I get my car back. No matter, I'll find a way to get to LFS B somehow.

 

Thanks for everything everyone!

[Tamberav]

Okay, noted. Thank you both. Looks like a trip to the store is in order - need to find a med with formaldehyde in it. The industrial formaldehyde is difficult to get a hold of over here. Only problem is, my folks loaned my car to my uncle last night after he crashed his into a baboon crossing the highway yesterday evening. His compressor and radiator broke completely and will be in the workshop + insurance claims = 2 weeks before I get my car back. No matter, I'll find a way to get to LFS B somehow.

 

Thanks for everything everyone!

 

Be cautious.. formalin is very toxic to all animals.... you don't want to screw up with it.

[Snow_Phoenix]

Be cautious.. formalin is toxic to all animals.... so it is hard on the fish.

 

I know. I lack the proper equipment to titrate it as well. Let me see if I can get a lab friend to help me out first, or hit the pharmacy. Worse come to worse, I'll dilute it - 1 drop of formalin (10%) in 3.5G of water and add 3 drops of that water to the 3G Pico QT I setup. It's a gamble. I'll need to work out the math first. Thanks for the assist btw.

[Snow_Phoenix]

My Orange clown - Dusk - is not doing well. Both clowns have stopped eating completely, but Dusk has his fins clamped already. LFS B is located in a very dodgy part of town - I can't bring my mum's month old car over there, it's bound to get stolen. My only hope is my dad's car, but he's still at work at will only return at night. So I have to wait for tomorrow. I hope and pray he hangs on a little while longer. I'm thinking of giving him a FW dip and maybe a Punktol Ultra dip as well later.

 

I guess this is the flipside of owning wild-caught specimens.

[Snow_Phoenix]

Gave both clowns a Punktol Ultra + freshwater dip for five minutes. Dusk was weak, but Dawn kept swimming by his side and gently nudging him to keep on swimming. Surprisingly, both clowns finished the pellets I tossed in earlier - they must have eaten them during these last few hours. I have another batch of soaked pellets in garlic juice ready to go for tomorrow. I'm also putting in quarter of a tablet of Metronidazole in the Pico QT and will do so every morning for the next two weeks until both clowns are strong enough again. The water will be changed accordingly since I don't want any amount of concentrated meds to build up in it over a prolonged period of time.

 

Also, Isabella took a huge leap in training today - she ate some mysis and brine soaked in reef roids! Only problem is that I have to put the food directly in front of her face or she doesn't realize it's there. Now, there is a slight backstep to this - Isabella only takes frozen food soaked in garlic, and Carlos is the opposite. He had no appetite for garlic-soaked frozen, but showed positive response towards regular frozen. Which means I'll have to make to separate containers of frozen - one with garlic and one without - and store it in the fridge.

 

And if all goes well, I will be receiving my acrylic fuge box and some Chaeto tomorrow morning. I hope it comes through alright!

[Snow_Phoenix]

I have terrible news. Dusk passed away last night in the QT. Dawn however, is making a quick and speedy recovery.

 

Also, Carlos passed away this morning. He was still right next to Isabella - she didn't leave his side for a minute and even swam up to the surface as I gently lifted his body up and out of the tank. The only thing that changed was the feeding regiment - whereby I introduced garlic juice as part of the frozen mix supplement that I've been using to feed my Mandarins. Has this ever occurred to any of you before? Now I'm terrified to use garlic.

 

All other fish, inverts and coral are doing fine. Parameters are in check with no ammonia and nitrite detected. Nitrates are below 5ppm and PO4 is around 0.03ppm. I'm lost and very upset.

[ninjamyst]

sorry to hear about the clown and mandarin =(.

[FlowerMama]

oh no. why do fish have to be so hard sometimes. Sorry.

[Tamberav]

I have used garlic before and nothing really came of it. It is in pellet food and such too. It is the garlic supplement they make for fish though and not actual garlic from a grocery store. So not really sure?

 

Maybe the clowns passed something on? If it is brook, it is a quick killer

 

They also "spear" mandarins to catch them and I wouldn't be surprised if some perish later on from it. Just a thought.

 

So sorry

[Snow_Phoenix]

It was a big risk purchasing from LFS B. Their fish is usually wild caught and kept in terrible conditions. I usually go to LFS A lfor ivestock but their tanks have been crashing lately. Their latest crash wiped out all their aquacultured corals. Even the worker there told me to give their store a miss for the time being. There is an LFS C and LFS D but both stores are too far for me to drive alone. I can't burden my parents for this - they're already sacrificing so much for me. But to get a healthy mandarin this size is a rarity over here. I might have to wait a long time to get one again. Even then, I don't know if the new one will pair up with Isabella.

[FlowerMama]

It was a big risk purchasing from LFS B. Their fish is usually wild caught and kept in terrible conditions. I usually go to LFS A livestock but their tanks have been crashing lately. Their latest crash wiped out all their aquacultured corals. Even the worker there told me to give their store a miss for the time being. There is an LFS C and LFS D but both stores are too far for me to drive alone. I can't burden my parents for this - they're already sacrificing so much for me. But to get a healthy mandarin this size is a rarity over here. I might have to wait a long time to get one again. Even then, I don't know if the new one will pair up with Isabella.

 

Speaking of your parents, I hope your mom is healing fine.

[Snow_Phoenix]

Speaking of your parents, I hope your mom is healing fine.

 

She is, but one of her incisions is healing a lot more slower than expected. Today is her first checkup since she left the hospital around 8 days ago.

 

I have used garlic before and nothing really came of it. It is in pellet food and such too. It is the garlic supplement they make for fish though and not actual garlic from a grocery store. So not really sure?

 

Maybe the clowns passed something on? If it is brook, it is a quick killer

 

They also "spear" mandarins to catch them and I wouldn't be surprised if some perish later on from it. Just a thought.

 

So sorry

 

Tam, I used a very diluted version of garlic juice - I let the mysis and brine mix soak in the juice for less than 30 seconds, then strained the juice and then fed it to Carlos and Isabella. I know Carlos wasn't happy with the new mix - he pecked at it for a while but kept spitting out some pieces and fluttering away. Isabella loved it though, as long as the food was directly in front of her face. Also, can brook be passed on to Mandarins? This is news to me, since I assumed the extra slime coat layer on dragonets would provide extra protection against diseases such as brook. Guess I was wrong.

[Tamberav]

She is, but one of her incisions is healing a lot more slower than expected. Today is her first checkup since she left the hospital around 8 days ago.

 

 

Tam, I used a very diluted version of garlic juice - I let the mysis and brine mix soak in the juice for less than 30 seconds, then strained the juice and then fed it to Carlos and Isabella. I know Carlos wasn't happy with the new mix - he pecked at it for a while but kept spitting out some pieces and fluttering away. Isabella loved it though, as long as the food was directly in front of her face. Also, can brook be passed on to Mandarins? This is news to me, since I assumed the extra slime coat layer on dragonets would provide extra protection against diseases such as brook. Guess I was wrong.

 

It is helpful protection against disease and they would be less likely to contract it but doesn't make them immune. I wouldn't treat them though unless you had proof. Mandarins do not do well with meds or hypo.

[Snow_Phoenix]

It is helpful protection against disease and they would be less likely to contract it but doesn't make them immune. I wouldn't treat them though unless you had proof. Mandarins do not do well with meds or hypo.

 

Noted. God, I feel so awful for making such a huge mistake. Even my dad blames me for it - he asked me, 'Why on earth did you change the food when it was working?!'

 

Even I couldn't give an answer to that. I just heard garlic enticed a feeding response and boosted immunity, and jumped the gun. Only it backfired, big time. LFS B finally contacted me again and said they now officially have aquacultured clowns in stock again. Also, my autofeeder control clip broke, so I need to get a new one - which will only be sold at LFS A. Spoke to my dad, he's willing to take me to both shops as soon as my mum's checkup is done.

 

Want to hear an even better story? My fuge box and Chaeto still hasn't arrived yet even though I paid express post charges. Which means it might not be even delivered today, or tomorrow since Thursday is a half-day, or Friday since it's an off-day, and only on Saturday if I'm lucky. By which, my Chaeto will be a disintegrated ball of brown flakes. Call me dramatic, but this is a nightmare.

[Tamberav]

Theres no real proof that garlic was the cause. You only had the fish for a short time so I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. It could have perished for many reasons.

 

It is a very stressful journey to get to your tank. It could have just been too much for him

 

I always buy captive bred fish when available to try and do a small part so wild fish can stay in the wild. I wish ORA would release more captive bred mandarins. It's like it was a huge deal and then... now I never hear of them being offered anymore

[Snow_Phoenix]

Theres no real proof that garlic was the cause. You only had the fish for a short time so I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. It could have perished for many reasons.

 

It is a very stressful journey to get to your tank. It could have just been too much for him

 

I always buy captive bred fish when available to try and do a small part so wild fish can stay in the wild. I wish ORA would release more captive bred mandarins. It's like it was a huge deal and then... now I never hear of them being offered anymore

 

True, there is no proof. I just thought there was a link since it died after I switched up the food mix. But Carlos looked outwardly very healthy. He was just chasing his reflection around the tank last night before I turned off the moonlights and left for bed. It's very, very hard to get captive bred fish around here (that aren't clownfish). Most of the captive bred ones are imported via Singapore, and those cost easily up to three figures. My previous Mandarin and Neon goby were hand-me-downs, so I was lucky to get them both at two figured prices.

 

Is there any reason why ORA stopped raising captive-bred Mandarins though? I've wondered as well.

[Tamberav]

True, there is no proof. I just thought there was a link since it died after I switched up the food mix. But Carlos looked outwardly very healthy. He was just chasing his reflection around the tank last night before I turned off the moonlights and left for bed. It's very, very hard to get captive bred fish around here (that aren't clownfish). Most of the captive bred ones are imported via Singapore, and those cost easily up to three figures. My previous Mandarin and Neon goby were hand-me-downs, so I was lucky to get them both at two figured prices.

 

Is there any reason why ORA stopped raising captive-bred Mandarins though? I've wondered as well.

 

Ive brought fish home that were eating and normal and they just disappear/die without explanation. It sucks!

 

They stopped making them because people weren't willing to pay the higher price for captive bred mandarins. Supply and demand I guess. I understand your situation is different though but in the USA, we really have no excuse other than being super cheap asses because the price difference isn't even that significant for us.

 

Maybe another reason (this is just my guess) is even a captive bred mandarin who eats prepared foods is still very time demanding and needs to be fed. Not everyone is as awesome and dedicated as the people on nano-reef

 

These are some good reads:

 

http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/unique-corals/147481-where-have-all-captive-bred-mandarins-gone.html

 

http://reefbuilders.com/2014/06/19/captive-bred-mandarins-return-karen-brittain/

[Snow_Phoenix]

Ive brought fish home that were eating and normal and they just disappear/die without explanation. It sucks!

 

They stopped making them because people weren't willing to pay the higher price for captive bred mandarins. Supply and demand I guess. I understand your situation is different though but in the USA, we really have no excuse other than being super cheap asses because the price difference isn't even that significant for us.

 

Maybe another reason (this is just my guess) is even a captive bred mandarin who eats prepared foods is still very time demanding and needs to be fed. Not everyone is as awesome and dedicated as the people on nano-reef

 

These are some good reads:

 

http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/unique-corals/147481-where-have-all-captive-bred-mandarins-gone.html

 

http://reefbuilders.com/2014/06/19/captive-bred-mandarins-return-karen-brittain/

 

But I feel captive bred Mandys would be a good investment - they truly are amazing fish once you get to know them and they get to know you. Isabella already allows me to gently stroke her spine and even perches on my palm. I anyways had to dip my hands in the tank and shuffle things around since the fuge box and my ball of chaeto finally arrived (thank God!).

 

My mum saw how upset I was and squeezed some money into my hands today. I told her to take it back, but she told me to get an aquacultured clownfish, and another male mandarin if they're still available. And she also told me to stop soaking food in garlic (I know there's no relation, but just as a precaution) and stop communicating with the some jealous bunch of a$$holes on a local fish forum I frequent to. Apparently having two mandarins that bonded quickly and ate frozen angered them to the point they're screaming blasphemy. But I don't owe them anything - not even a video or picture of proof. As long as my fish are happy and eating well, that's all that matters.

 

Unfortunately, I'm not sure if today's events elevated my stress levels or something else acted as a trigger, but I developed extensive seizures in the afternoon. I'm basically sick again, and my brain feels like it's being split into half. I'll take another momentary break from NR until things get back on track again. Thanks for all the pointers, Tam. I appreciate it.