Official Mandarin and Dragonet Show off thread

[Snow_Phoenix]

Shadow! Those fish look amazing, thanks for the pictures and for posting. Wow. I'm both jealous and teary eyed, I love these gentle fish so much. So happy for you. That heart shaped spot is fantastic!

 

Thank you, Metrokat. I miss my old boy so much, that I simply couldn't pass up this opportunity to own Mandys again in

 

That's an incredible post, ShadowLurker. Awesome pics... I wish my tank was large enough to support a pair!

 

Here's a pic of my little Fio, just hit the 10 month mark!

 

Thank you, Bulk! And wow, yours looks stunning!

the future.

 

I absolutely love Mandarins too. They're a joy to watch - especially when their fins 'flutter' as they move about the tank. Both my Mandys seem to love the cozy spot under my Leather so much though. Makes me wonder what sneaky things they're up to underneath there.

[phasezero]

how would you go about training one of them?

 

It's really just trial and error. Buy all the known frozen foods that mandarins can possibly eat and see which if any of them they end up liking. Turn off the flow and then turkey baste the food in their face to see which they like. Then you can take it a step further and use a glass jar diner to keep the food contained.

 

1.Nutramar OVA

2. Brine Shrimp

3. Cyclopeeze

4. Small mysis shrimp

5. Blood Worms

6. Small pellets. NLS

 

This is all I could come up with. Of all the mandarins I've had, I've had the most success with Nutramar OVA. Only one of the 6 or so I've ever bought ate pellets.

[Simone]

how would you go about training one of them?

 

Here is a copy of some advice I wrote to another prospective mandarin owner on this subject and a link to the online issue of Coral Magazine that has the definitive article on training mandarins:

 

You can use pods (and other live foods) to supplement their diet but in a nano they must be trained onto frozen to survive. Based on my limited experience and stories from others, I would say that you should always use the breeder box method to train your mandarin. Letting them into the display immediately allows them to avoid the food you are offering and just hunt pods. Both my mandy's ate frozen within a day or two in the box. If you've used the breeder box method for several weeks and they are still only eating the live food (which I don't think is likely) or are emaciated or lethargic, then you should consider rehoming them to a tank with tons of pods before they starve to death. This is why it is so important to get a mandy who is not already starved past help because they will not be able to make it through this process. The Matt Pedersen article describing the breeder box method is in this issue of Coral Magazine:

 

http://coralmagazine...al/20111112#pg1

[Obsessed Reefer]

So I'm running a 20G Fusion Nano, I want to get it set for a mandarin. I plan on converting one of my rear chambers into a fuge, but I was wondering if it would be beneficial to also run a small display fuge, as the pods might not survive the return pump? Obviously I plan to try to train it to eat frozen, but I'd like to also let it have live food to pick on.

[k4ndyk1ng]

It's really just trial and error. Buy all the known frozen foods that mandarins can possibly eat and see which if any of them they end up liking. Turn off the flow and then turkey baste the food in their face to see which they like. Then you can take it a step further and use a glass jar diner to keep the food contained.

 

1.Nutramar OVA

2. Brine Shrimp

3. Cyclopeeze

4. Small mysis shrimp

5. Blood Worms

6. Small pellets. NLS

 

This is all I could come up with. Of all the mandarins I've had, I've had the most success with Nutramar OVA. Only one of the 6 or so I've ever bought ate pellets.

Here is a copy of some advice I wrote to another prospective mandarin owner on this subject and a link to the online issue of Coral Magazine that has the definitive article on training mandarins:

 

You can use pods (and other live foods) to supplement their diet but in a nano they must be trained onto frozen to survive. Based on my limited experience and stories from others, I would say that you should always use the breeder box method to train your mandarin. Letting them into the display immediately allows them to avoid the food you are offering and just hunt pods. Both my mandy's ate frozen within a day or two in the box. If you've used the breeder box method for several weeks and they are still only eating the live food (which I don't think is likely) or are emaciated or lethargic, then you should consider rehoming them to a tank with tons of pods before they starve to death. This is why it is so important to get a mandy who is not already starved past help because they will not be able to make it through this process. The Matt Pedersen article describing the breeder box method is in this issue of Coral Magazine:

 

http://coralmagazine.coverleaf.com/coral/20111112#pg1'>http://coralmagazine...al/20111112#pg1

Ok thanks guys

[Snow_Phoenix]

I have terrible news. Carlos passed away this morning. He was still right next to Isabella - she didn't leave his side for a minute and even swam up to the surface as I gently lifted his body up and out of the tank. The only thing that changed was the feeding regiment - whereby I introduced garlic juice as part of the frozen mix supplement that I've been using to feed my Mandarins. Has this ever occurred to any of you before? Now I'm terrified to use garlic.

 

All other fish, inverts and coral are doing fine. Parameters are in check with no ammonia and nitrite detected. Nitrates are below 5ppm and PO4 is around 0.03ppm. I'm lost and very upset.

[CronicReefer]

I highly doubt it was the garlic unless it was somehow allergic. Unfortunately, mandarins do not generally live for very long in the aquarium. The fact that he was wild caught and stressed at the store may have more to do with his untimely death than anything being wrong in your tank, especially since your other mandarin is still healthy.

[metrokat]

Shadow, I'm so sorry about Carlos. It is not garlic. I've learnt this from Joe and from losing very healthy Mandarins for no reason, sometimes they way they are caught int he wild just messes with them. They are very gentle fish and the stress just does not go away. They can be eating and fat but will slowly pass for no reason. It happened to Draco after being with me 1+ year, and to Bella, and to the mate got for Bella who was fat but never even pecked at the rocks. Sam on the other hand has been skin and bones going on 3-4 months now but is still alive.

 

She's going to feel lonely. I hope you find another mate for her.

[Snow_Phoenix]

Shadow, I'm so sorry about Carlos. It is not garlic. I've learnt this from Joe and from losing very healthy Mandarins for no reason, sometimes they way they are caught int he wild just messes with them. They are very gentle fish and the stress just does not go away. They can be eating and fat but will slowly pass for no reason. It happened to Draco after being with me 1+ year, and to Bella, and to the mate got for Bella who was fat but never even pecked at the rocks. Sam on the other hand has been skin and bones going on 3-4 months now but is still alive.

 

She's going to feel lonely. I hope you find another mate for her.

 

I know. I think my whole family knows how upset I was today morning. Finding her another mate won't be easy, but I'll be patient. It'll take time before I can find another 2"+ spotted male which is plump at the LFS again. Good news though - my fuge box and Chaeto arrived by mail today, so the tank should anyway be infested with pods in a week or two as a live food supplement at all times. I just wish I could have somehow saved Carlos, but even Tam suggested that sometimes fish die for no reason - shipment stress, internal parasite etc. It could have been anything. He was so active and even playful the night before. Didn't know that'd be the last time I'd ever see him.

[JoeDigiorgio]

Let me tell you, it's not just mandarins. I had a pair of cherub angels go on me one night out of nowhere. They'd been spawning that evening. No other fish died that night or that time frame. It just happens. We don't always know why. Don't beat yourself up.

[BulkRate]

I was at one time hopeful that breeding programs like ORA's/the rumored Sustainable Aquatics one would take off and captive bred mandarins that were relatively accepting of common prepared foods would become the norm instead of wild-caught ones (kinda like what happened with clownfish, nowadays). Whatever happened?

 

Between ORA suddenly becoming very quiet about it (their site's "contact us" form seems to go to a black hole if you're not representing a store) & the food the fish commonly accepts (nutramar/prawn roe) effectively going extinct? Not one of my better calls to take on getting one of these beautiful fish last year.

 

At least mine's doing well for now... I keep trying new foods every few weeks and figure someday I'll manage to set up a copepod culture that doesn't fail three weeks in. I've had some luck with decapsulated brine cysts as a grazing-during-the-day food but nothing that makes me believe the fish will continue to do nearly as well once my last pouch of prawn roe's gone.

 

Prospective next try is likely Ocean Nutrition's R.O.E. or Doc’s Eco Eggs... pellet training's been a complete bust on my little prima donna.

[metrokat]

Sams fav food even now is frozen brine shrimp. But he eats everything, just not enough if it.

[Tamberav]

I was at one time hopeful that breeding programs like ORA's/the rumored Sustainable Aquatics one would take off and captive bred mandarins that were relatively accepting of common prepared foods would become the norm instead of wild-caught ones (kinda like what happened with clownfish, nowadays). Whatever happened?

 

We failed as a hobby is what happened.... people not wanting to pay extra money for a mandarin when it can be had for $12. Supply and demand... have to support the breeders or they won't have incentive to breed.

 

I would also bet that many people didn't understand that just because it eats prepared food doesn't mean it isn't hard work to keep it fed enough and other fish/inverts from stealing the food, ect.

 

http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/unique-corals/147481-where-have-all-captive-bred-mandarins-gone.html

 

http://reefbuilders.com/2014/06/19/captive-bred-mandarins-return-karen-brittain/

[metrokat]

Also important to note that a fish eating prepared can forget to eat when stressed. So it goes naturally towards instinct which is live foods. Then you have to retrain them.

[BulkRate]

Heh... my tank's "trained" me on how to feed them:

 

1. Cut filter pumps & broadcast lightly crushed NLS or Hikari pellets. Makes porcelain crabs happy & yellow clown goby remind me why I'm ok with it systematically killing any SPS I put in the tank. Begins to make porky blood shrimp scarf frantically.

 

2. Cut circulation pumps, let pellet leftovers settle on rockwork. Gets mandarin hovering and pecking towards one of it's preferred feedin' rocks. Blood shrimp continues to scarf.

 

3, Mix of minced Larry's Reef Frenzy Nano, cyclopeeze & minority share of Nutramar - one larger bit of Larry's tossed to blood shrimp to get the damn thing full enough to slow down so other critters have a chance at food. Another to each of the rock flower anemones. Fines from the mix squirted in the mandarin's path & over the florida/yuma garden. Mandarin gorges for way longer than the Nutramar could possibly be present for. Hermit crab fights ensue.

 

4. Pumps briefly cycled to stir up leftovers. Everything goes nuts again for the very first time. I sit, watch & drink a beer.

 

20-30 minutes later circulation pumps are back on for good. Filter pumps are switched on as we go to bed. I did not plan to be doing this every day or two when I set up the tank 2+ years ago. Ergo, I clearly have been trained.

[BulkRate]

Thanks Tambrev for the read - I'd seen the earlier rant, but not Matt Pedersen's follow-up.

 

I for one never saw an issue with $50+ for a mandarin in great health & been through an effective quarantine... it's around what I paid for a wild-caught one that had been through the above, and I would have willingly paid a premium on top of that for one that was captive bred & demonstrably trained onto a prepared food or two. See aforementioned black hole comment on my & several LFS' queries to ORA back in Fall 2013.

 

I mean, not even a "Get lost, we don't do that anymore" response. Maybe the failure's "on us" as hobbyists unwilling to pay the overhead for captive vs. wild-caught... but from where I stand there's a heapin' helpin' of fail for anyone at the table. What's the meme? "Shut Up and Take My Money"...

 

Then again, I haven't gotten any response from the last three questions I submitted, one about blue hypnea and the other about the hybrid cleaner goby's expected lifespan & temperament.

 

On a happier, less irritated front... just got off the phone with Urzi's Saltwater Coral Reef in St. Louis (home town)... my folks are coming down for a visit in the next couple of weeks and are going to bring a tube of Doc's Eco Eggs with them. Here's hoping that it'll be a ready replacement!

[Tamberav]

Mine won't eat it :/ I hope you have better luck.

[JoeDigiorgio]

I had a lot of success feeding them gel food. Salmon and shrimp and roe in a blender with agar, then take the set gel block to a cheese grater and freeze in flat packs. It's bright orange and wreaks of fish, eggs and shrimp. What more can a dragonet want?!

 

 

Coincidentally this mix is magic for spawning just about anything.

[Tamberav]

I had a lot of success feeding them gel food. Salmon and shrimp and roe in a blender with agar, then take the set gel block to a cheese grater and freeze in flat packs. It's bright orange and wreaks of fish, eggs and shrimp. What more can a dragonet want?!

 

 

Coincidentally this mix is magic for spawning just about anything.

 

What type of roe?

[JoeDigiorgio]

I buy fresh frozen roe sacs from any Asian market. No idea what fish they come from lol but they're pretty big.

[Tamberav]

Don't have anything like that here Only stuff I have seen is in glass jars.

[JoeDigiorgio]

Ask them for it. If they clean and butcher their own fish they have the roe sacs.

[Tamberav]

Ask them for it. If they clean and butcher their own fish they have the roe sacs.

 

No asian markets I mean

[JoeDigiorgio]

Oh man. That's rough. Umm. Maybe a reef club member has an idea of how to get it?

[Simone]

Mine won't eat it :/ I hope you have better luck.

 

Tamb, do yours eat Dr. G's Caviar? Just ordered some and am hoping my pipefish and mandarins will eat it.