SPS Dying

[javisaman]

What are you doing for flow? In my opinion it's the most important thing to keeping SPS.

[heifinator]

What are you doing for flow? In my opinion it's the most important thing to keeping SPS.

 

65 gallon tank with 2 mp 10's in reefcrest at 90%. Also a tunze pump 6025 I believe, with the mod to make it do like 900gph.

 

I don't think I would get PE as good as I am getting, and have the coral be dying if it was flow related though.

[javisaman]

Actually PE really doesn't reflect health. Lots of PE can also be a sign of starvation. SPS in particular need a lot of random flow. 2 mp 10s should be plenty for a 65 gallon tank however. Outside of more light, flow, and stability there isn't a difference in the care of SPS and other corals. And it seems like you have the lighting and stability down. Though it maybe worthwhile to check your test kits or replace them.

 

Lastly all I can think of is maybe acclimation. Especially if the sps die quickly.

[glennr1978]

First of all, since when is 10 dkh to high? 10 dkh is fine so long as its stable. Your temp flux really isn't bad either. Is there any chance any of your test kits are bad? Usually these types of things are pretty easily diagnosed but I'm stumped. Everything appears ok...

 

 

Oh and if you had enough stray voltage in your tank to kill your sps you would know it every time you touched the water. I've read a few articles that suggest that low voltage can actually stimulate growth in sps. Weird.

[heifinator]

I have talked to multiple LFS and they are stumped also. Even had a guy at my LFS who has a 600 gallon custom SPS tank (beautiful) who knows his stuff come out and look at the tank. He left with no real answer as to what is going on either...

 

Already bought and tested new test kits, same numbers.

 

I am going to just let the tank "mature" another 30 days and evaluate again, at that point if there is no consensus as to what is going on, the tank is coming down.

[Adrnalnrsh]

I have talked to multiple LFS and they are stumped also. Even had a guy at my LFS who has a 600 gallon custom SPS tank (beautiful) who knows his stuff come out and look at the tank. He left with no real answer as to what is going on either...

 

Already bought and tested new test kits, same numbers.

 

I am going to just let the tank "mature" another 30 days and evaluate again, at that point if there is no consensus as to what is going on, the tank is coming down.

 

Did anyone ask - how long has the tank been running?

[jason777]

Although, your phosphate may read zero, I knew a guy years ago that had the same problem. It turned out that he blended squid, crab, etc. to feed his fish which produced huge phosphate spikes after feeding.

 

Other than that, temperature swings, pathogens, or even tissue cell mutations.

[macro]

Your tank maybe in UNLS,couple with high alkalintiy can cause the sps to stn.

Try to feed more and bring down the KDH to below 8 and see if there is improvement.

[heifinator]

Fed daily since there have been fish in the tank.

 

I finally figured it out. Reef crystals...

 

I did a 60% water change with a new bucket of reef crystals (vs my old bucket of reef crystals) and everything started to improve.

 

Never had a bucket of reef crystals be problematic, let alone be the sole reason I could not keep SPS alive.

 

TL:DR Switched the salt and it got better. Going to contact the manufacturer about the salt.

 

Before the super observant members of NR say it... Yes, the salt was dry mixed before use and no it wasn't super old, only a few months max.

[metrokat]

Fed daily since there have been fish in the tank.

 

I finally figured it out. Reef crystals...

 

I did a 60% water change with a new bucket of reef crystals (vs my old bucket of reef crystals) and everything started to improve.

 

Never had a bucket of reef crystals be problematic, let alone be the sole reason I could not keep SPS alive.

 

TL:DR Switched the salt and it got better. Going to contact the manufacturer about the salt.

 

Before the super observant members of NR say it... Yes, the salt was dry mixed before use and no it wasn't super old, only a few months max.

 

But wouldn't you have used the same salt for the other tanks?

[heifinator]

But wouldn't you have used the same salt for the other tanks?

 

No I actually don't. These tanks are not located in the same house, they were just built at nearly the same time with the same method. Don't fix whats not broken style!

[heifinator]

Odd development. Things were improving for a couple weeks (marginally) but now seem to be getting bad again.

 

Tank is gonna come down in the next couple months if I cannot figure this out. I have had 3 local reefers come by and look at everything, none of them had any idea....

[heifinator]

Pulled a SPS frag out of the tank, and as I was transporting it I noticed all kinds of parasites on it.

 

Very possible I just found the problem, how widespread will a SPS parasite issue get. I am having problems with LPS now as well, do they affect LPS.

 

I have a nudibranch (i think, working on a picture soon)

 

Also have these little guys (about 10 feel off this one frag)

 

Any ID or insight would be great! Can parasites wipe out 10+ sps / lps frags?

 

Also, there was something that looked like a tiny shrimp, transparent with a brown line on its back, in the dip water it had its tail curled in like a shrimp does, didn't look like a parasite to me, can't get a picture yet!

Edited October 3, 2012 by heifinator

[uglyfish]

Pulled a SPS frag out of the tank, and as I was transporting it I noticed all kinds of parasites on it.

Any ID or insight would be great!

 

Can't ID from the pic. Parasites suck... I feel your pain.

[heifinator]

Here is a full update including pictures.

 

Everything but SPS has been doing fine for weeks now, so I decided to just wait and see if as the tank matured things improved.

 

We added a couple SPS frags (some encrusting acro and a pillicoria (spelling?). They did great for weeks, even saw growth.

 

All of a sudden last week both starting having STN / RTN along with the favia in the tank that had been doing good for over a month. Alsothe acans that have been in the tank for 3 months now are receding.

 

Here is what has been checked.

 

-Lighting (used par meter) 500-350 in top 33% / 350 - 280 in middle 33% / 250 - 180 bottom 33%

- Temp is controlled with chiller / heater on apex controller swings between 78.2 - 78.8 in 45 minutes

- Params (2-3 Nitrate / 0 Nitrite / 0 Amonia / 9.0dkh / 450calc / 1350mag / undecetable PO4 / ph 8.22

- Tested for stray voltage

- Flow provided my 2mp10 / Tunze 6025

- Water changes done every 2 weeks (10 gallons on a 65 gallon tank)

- Fish fed daily with flakes / pellets (small amount)

- Coral fed every 3 days with reef chili

- GFO / Carbon reactor has had media changed in last 60 days, runs 24/7, turned off for 2 weeks with no improvement

- Skimmer is +1 turned off for 2 weeks, no improvement

- Moved corals countless places, no improvement

- Fragged RTN sections and moved to another tank, 100% have come back to full health.

 

 

Recently found some parasites on a piece of SPS, going to dip all corals in the tank with revive this weekend.

 

Whatever the issue it is affecting all SPS, some LPS (Favia / acans), and does not effect softies (zoas, gsp, rics are all fine)

 

Thanks nano-reef, help me find the problem!

 

 

 

This piece is now in my other tank, making a full recovery

 

 

 

This was a test frag out of my other display, small piece of blue tip acro, didn't make it. Looked good for 2+ weeks, died within 3 days of flesh falling off.

 

 

 

Favia, looked good for 2+ weeks, PE and everything, even noticable growth. Started noticing death today. Will remove and attempt to save in other tank.

 

 

 

GSP / Zoas, look great...

 

 

 

Frogspawn and GSP look great...

 

 

Pocillopora had white growth tips for over 2 weeks, noticeable growth, flesh has started falling off. Fragging tomorrow and moving to healthy display to save.

 

Acan example, looked good at least 2 months, grew new mouths, within a week it has receded to this point.

Edited October 3, 2012 by heifinator

[Asureef]

What test kit are you measuring po4 with?

 

At this point, I would try to do 25-50% water change a week until things start improving. Depending on the type & efficiency of GAC used, I would replace this every two weeks while using only 1/2 of the recommended amount. Keep skimmer on 24/7 and GFO offline.

 

How is your coralline growth?

Edited October 4, 2012 by Asureef

[NanoTopia]

What test kit are you measuring po4 with?

 

At this point, I would try to do 25-50% water change a week until things start improving. Depending on the type & efficiency of GAC used, I would replace this every two weeks while using only 1/2 of the recommended amount. Keep skimmer on 24/7 and GFO offline.

 

How is your coralline growth?

 

This is some good information Asureef IMO.

 

OP, Change your salt brand as well, do those water changes, check salinity with a calibrated refractometer. Bad buckets of salt do happen from time to time, I recommend rolling or mixing new buckets and testing what you can first batch you make. I would guess something is out of balance with your water (salt mix), not something you can test for as a hobbyist. Make those large water changes religiously until things turn around.

 

Also, keep your KH at ~8 dKH, change to a salt mix that mixes up around there, I use DD H2Ocean. Things will improve in a month or so.

 

Christine

[heifinator]

What test kit are you measuring po4 with?

 

At this point, I would try to do 25-50% water change a week until things start improving. Depending on the type & efficiency of GAC used, I would replace this every two weeks while using only 1/2 of the recommended amount. Keep skimmer on 24/7 and GFO offline.

 

How is your coralline growth?

 

 

No coraline growth. But my other display that is doing great doesn't really have any coraline / coraline growth either.

 

I use BRS GAC, I will reduce the amount used and change it again. GFO will be removed for now.

 

We have been doing 10 gallons every 7-10 days, I will up it to 15 every week and be religious about it.

 

The PO4 has been checked with a hanna checker and with a salifert test.

[uglyfish]

No coraline growth. But my other display that is doing great doesn't really have any coraline / coraline growth either.

 

I think asureefis on to something with the coraline... IME when coraline grows good, water is good. When my coraline stops growing, i know something up with my tank... its not a scientific thing, its more of a gut feeling. Have you tried several massive water change like 50-75% 3x in times in a week?

Edited October 8, 2012 by uglyfish

[metrokat]

OP, I thought you determined that it was your salt that was the problem?

 

I think asureefis on to something with the coraline... IME when coraline grows good, water is good. When my coraline stops growing, i know something up with my tank... its not a scientific thing, its more of a gut feeling. Have you tried several massive water change like 50-75% 3x in times in a week?

If your rocks are covered with coralline, how can you tell when it stops growing?

Most of my rocks are covered 100%

[heifinator]

I thought it was the salt but it was just looking better for a couple days, not sure why, didn't touch the tank except for a water change.

 

I have no coraline in the tank, the rock is dry rock (BRS reef saver) It was cycled in a tank with LR for 3 months prior to being used in the DT. My other display was done the same way and a year in I still have 0 coraline.

[Marteen]

I thought it was the salt but it was just looking better for a couple days, not sure why, didn't touch the tank except for a water change.

 

I have no coraline in the tank, the rock is dry rock (BRS reef saver) It was cycled in a tank with LR for 3 months prior to being used in the DT. My other display was done the same way and a year in I still have 0 coraline.

 

That seems strange. Usually you'll get coralline hitch hiking with frags, so it's pretty unavoidable. Even if you are using dry rock it will still pick up coralline from frag plugs and when it was cycled with the other live rock for 3 months.

[heifinator]

One of my 2 tanks is over a year old, no coraline but I am getting great SPS growth. I am looking at my frag plugs and some of them appear to have coraline but really not very much.

[Weetabix7]

Since the tanks are in different houses, is it possible there is an environmental contaminant in the house w/the problem tank?

Cleaning products used, aerosol sprays, anything like that?

[PODPIMP]

Need more photos of your tank. Full tank shots and shots of all the acros in your tank. Show the color of algae that grows on your glass.

Edited October 11, 2012 by PODPIMP