SPS Dying

[heifinator]

CHECK NEWEST POSTS AS THIS IS OUT OF DATE

 

This is my 3rd tank I have setup. I have had sps before and my other tank is SPS dominated so I am fairly knowledgeable about the common pitfalls of SPS. Although I don't claim to be any expert

 

The tank is a 65 long with a 6 bulb ati t5 fixture.

 

The fixture is about 10" - 12" above the water. In the tank the soft corals and lps are doing wonderful. All fish, shrimp, and other inverts are also looking good.

 

However, SPS....

 

Put a frag in the tank (bottom) move it up slowly, looks great with PE and everything for about 1-2 weeks, then all of a sudden parts start browning or STN/RTN and within a week the whole colony or frag is dead. If I try fragging off pieces that appear healthy they still die.

 

Monti caps, montiporia, acros, birdsnest, doesnt matter.

 

Here is how I feel about the common pitfalls

 

Phosphates test at 0, although I know that doesn't mean much, tank has almost no algae growth, run GFO reactor.

 

Ammonia reads 0, runing carbon in a reactor and do water changes bi-weekly (10g)

 

To little light - some SPS browns, then dies, not bleaching. Others turn white which makes me think its not to little light.

 

To much light - Again only some are turning white at first, others brown out then die. LPS / softies are happy in the same light

 

Fish eating them - No wrasse, angles, or anything that would "nip" at coral

 

I am grasping for straws at this point.... If something is dying I can move it to my personal tank and it will recover. Same parameters.... nearly the same builds.

 

Thanks!

Edited October 21, 2012 by heifinator

[Bongo Shrimp]

The three most important parameters for SPS are:

Alkalinity

Calcium

Magnesium

 

Do you test for those?

[heifinator]

For sure.

 

Parameters for those are nearly the same as on my successful SPS tank

 

CA 450

ALK 10.5-11

MAG 1250 - 1300

[Rehype]

Sounds to me like the water may be too "clean". Are you feeding this tank regularly? If not are you dosing amino acids?Are you using carbon as well?

 

For starters I would say raise the fixture to about 14" knock a few hours off the light schedule and take the GFO reactor offline.

[heifinator]

GFO reactor has been off for a few weeks and light has been raised.

 

All SPS continues to die, everything else is great. SPS looks good for a few weeks then all of a sudden begins dying. Take it to the other tank and it recovers...

Edited October 21, 2012 by heifinator

[jlbzixxer]

what is your nitrate @?

Like Rehype said your water is probably to "clean"

Ran into this while running bio pellets

[uglyfish]

If the two tanks are identical in treatment and water parameters, maybe its a pathogen? Does the tissue loss happen over days or weeks?

[Spencer7]

Too clean or maybe something vermetid snails?

[heifinator]

We have been watching for snails and such, nothing touches any of these corals.

 

Moving the corals from the bad tank to the good tank saved them, so I doubt pathogen. Looked for bugs never saw any.

 

Softies and LPS look great, all sps dead within 2 weeks of being put in tank. Usually from the bottom up. I will say the LPS don't look great, but they are doing ok.

 

Adjusted light height and length both up and down for a few days, no improvement.

 

Disabled gfo / carbon reactor for 2 weeks, no change just some algae grown (light).

 

All params check out still.

 

Checked night / day / night ALK for swings, no swing more than .3 ALK +/-

 

PH is 8.0 / 8.3 24 hr swing.

 

The only thing I can find, is the bad tank sits in a very hot room and runs on a chiller (the good tank doesnt). The temp swings .8 degrees every 40m - 1hr.

 

Cycles between 78.0 - 78.8. I can try and tightening that down, will just mean the chiller comes on a lot.

Edited October 21, 2012 by heifinator

[pyronus]

We have been watching for snails and such, nothing touches any of these corals.

 

Moving the corals from the bad tank to the good tank saved them, so I doubt pathogen. Looked for bugs and even dipped a couple, no improvement until moved to other tank.

 

Ran polyfilter no change in color or coral health.

 

Softies and LPS look great, all sps dead within 2 weeks of being put in tank. Usually from the bottom up.

 

Adjusted light height and length both up and down for a few days, no improvement.

 

Disabled gfo / carbon reactor for 2 weeks, no change just some algae grown (light).

 

All params check out still.

 

Checked night / day / night ALK for swings, no swing more than .3 ALK +/-

 

PH is 8.0 / 8.3 24 hr swing.

 

The only thing I can find, is the bad tank sits in a very hot room and runs on a chiller (the good tank doesnt). The temp swings .8 degrees every 40m - 1hr.

 

Cycles between 78.0 - 78.8. I can try and tightening that down, will just mean the chiller comes on a lot.

 

What kind of chiller are you using? Did you buy it new or used. Could the chiller be leaching copper into the water or be fouled from previous use?

[heifinator]

JBJ Arctica

 

New in box when I got it, also you would think if there was a copper issue my LPS / softies would not be happy either. Same with inverts, shrimp look great.

 

I have been trying to resolve this on multiple sites and LFS's and no one can seem to track it down

Edited October 21, 2012 by heifinator

[steely185]

Check for stray voltage in the tank. You could have a bad pump, powerhead, chiller or heater that is giving off a small amount of voltage. Best way to find out it is to measure with a multimeter and unplugging pumps one by one.

[NanoTopia]

For, presumably healthy SPS, to start dying within a week or two would indicate something is seriously wrong in your tank. There are 101+ reasons SPS can decline and die but for death in <2 weeks indicates a major stress factor is present.

 

Since you are not experiencing any problems with your other tanks I would start to methodically go through everything that is different about this tank, and work from there. No two reef tanks are even remotely similar, I'm sure you could come up with more than just temperature.

 

All the suggestions above are valid causes for SPS issues but there are so many more to consider. If you still cannot come up with ideas for the cause of your SPS death I would post a very detailed profile of your tank including multiple photo's of your live stock, tank, sump, filtration systems, etc. Possibly others here could come up with more possible causes for your issues. There are some very brilliant minds here on NR that may be able to offer ideas you never considered.

 

Christine

[Nano sapiens]

I'd concentrate on this:

 

'Why do the LPS stony corals appear unaffected, but SPS stony corals die in 2 weeks?'

 

In general, other than lighting, the requirements for both a similar. SPS require that Params stay more stable, but if you aren't seeing big swings then that's not an issue. If lighting is not the issue (and it appears not to be since Monti caps are dying, too, and they do okay with most LPS level lighting), then what could this be?

 

From way back, I remember a tank that the owner was having similar issues with SPS. He finally dredged the SB and found an old, rusty fish hook. Perhaps, the LPS have a tolerance for some type of substance (not tested for) that the SPS types do not. Might want to check the LR and LS for anything embedded that isn't 'natural'.

[heifinator]

I'd concentrate on this:

 

'Why do the LPS stony corals appear unaffected, but SPS stony corals die in 2 weeks?'

 

In general, other than lighting, the requirements for both a similar. SPS require that Params stay more stable, but if you aren't seeing big swings then that's not an issue. If lighting is not the issue (and it appears not to be since Monti caps are dying, too, and they do okay with most LPS level lighting), then what could this be?

 

From way back, I remember a tank that the owner was having similar issues with SPS. He finally dredged the SB and found an old, rusty fish hook. Perhaps, the LPS have a tolerance for some type of substance (not tested for) that the SPS types do not. Might want to check the LR and LS for anything embedded that isn't 'natural'.

 

All rock is dry rock (the kind mined out of the ground) from BRS. I seeded it with some live rock in the sump, albeit only 5lbs.

 

I have checked equipment for rusting screws or anything of that nature that could leech heavy metals into the tank, can't find any.

 

When I say the 2 tanks are nearly identical I mean reactor, sump, pumps, heater, rock, sand, Same media from the same box, same salt.

 

Of course no two tanks are the same but all important mechanical features are nearly identical.

 

I will say this, the LPS are fully open but have been growing slowly, so it may be affecting them as well.

 

Can a temp swing of .8 degrees an hour be a problem? The largest difference between the 2 systems is the chiller.

 

Also, whatever it is can be corrected as any corals moved to the good system are noticeably better within 3 days.

Edited October 21, 2012 by heifinator

[Marine Depot]

Do you have any leather corals in your tank?

 

Dan

Edited August 24, 2012 by Marine Depot

[glennr1978]

source water bad?

[Nano sapiens]

Do you have any leather corals in your tank?

 

Dan

 

Smart. I see where you are going with this. Toxins released by soft corals that could affect specific hard coral types.

[glennr1978]

Smart. I see where you are going with this. Toxins released by soft corals that could affect specific hard coral types.

 

 

Idk, he was running carbon. That should've negated any toxins from leathers...

[gojk]

I would pull items out of the tank one by one to see if any are causing the problem. For example, swap out the heater for a few weeks and see if things change, then move to the power heads and pumps. I kept having the same problem and narrowed it down to the garbage can I was storing my rodi water in. Swapped that for a brute and all is well now. Sorry for your pain, it is frustrating.

[heifinator]

Do you have any leather corals in your tank?

 

Dan

 

No leathers or softies at all really. There are a couple small zoa colonies, some acans, a small frog spawn, and thats it. I put sps frags in to test and they die within a week or two. Had some nice SPS colonies in it when I didn't realize there was going to be an issue, they are dead now...

 

source water bad?

 

New RO/DI unit from BRS, tested with TDS meter, showing ~3.

 

I use a brute to mix my water in, and then new (rinsed) 5 gallon buckets to carry it to the tank.

 

Tested tank for voltage, shows 0.

 

Looking at the softies / lps more, they don't seem great, they aren't dying, but they are growing at what I consider really slow rates. Not sure though.

Edited October 21, 2012 by heifinator

[ALexpsycho]

I would suggest keeping alkalinity between 7-8 dKH max.SPS corals like stable parameters.What type of salt mix are you using?Some salt mixes like TM Bio-Actiff include carbon source.

Can you post some pictures ?

What if the tank is not ready yet to keep sps corals.I had also problems when moving corals,loosing color and getting brown,stoped growing and all those where signs that my tank hasnt matured yet.(bacterial colonization and control of NO3-PO4)Only after 3-4 months the situation got better.After 8-12 months whatever coral I get is getting bigger and healthier and even bleached corals recover.

[mad28gnc]

When you say they are doing great for a while I wonder are you getting good polyp extension and so for how long?

[heifinator]

When you say they are doing great for a while I wonder are you getting good polyp extension and so for how long?

 

Alkalinity is a 10 on its own. No dosing is being done, just reef crystals once every 2 weeks (10 gallons) - 65 gallon tank.

 

Tank has been up since March now, so I would think its been long enough to stabilize. The alk is high but it is stable I was told artificially lowering it is worse than leaving it stable and high.

 

By doing great I mean, I acclimate a large SPS colony, put it in the tank, does great with good solid PE and color for between 7 - 14 days. Then usually it gets STN / bleaching near the base and tips and works inwards. Some browned but most turned white / STN from base up.

 

I literally just took an acro frag out that was already about 90% dead / STN but the small little live part was nice a colorful with great PE....

Edited August 26, 2012 by heifinator

[heifinator]

Here is my plan. Would love input or more ideas of things to test.

 

-High ALK(stable)

* Use 2 part to increase calcium slowly attempting to reduce ALK some. See if it will hold stable at a lower number (less than 10-11)

 

-Salt contaminants

* Use different salt for a few water changes

 

-Water dissolved solids

* Test with TDS meter and use alternative RODI water for a few water changes

 

- Damaged heater

* Replace with another heater or inspect current heater for cracks or obvious damage

 

- Not enough bio filtration (live rock)

* Get extra live rock for sump, the tank was made using dry rock (BRS reef saver) that we seeded with live rock.

 

- High CO2

* DO CO2 / pH aeration test

Edited October 21, 2012 by heifinator