albertthiel Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I use natural sea water for my water changes. I use RO/DI for top off. So, no salt mix involved. So you are piping natural seawater into your house .. wow ... neat Albert 1 Quote Link to comment
chrssprngs Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 So you are piping natural seawater into your house .. wow ... neat Albert Funny guy. I pick up my water from Coral Reef Farms. They get from a local collector. 5 miles out, not sure of the collection depth. I have used it from the beginning on both of my tanks and like the results. No worries about bad batches of salt mix. No switching brands. 25 cents a gallon, if I don't buy anything else from them. http://www.coralreeffarm.com/store.php?cat=13 1 Quote Link to comment
FlCandy Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 As promised I am posting pics for you. I will post more soon. I really appreciate your interest in my tank and the time you take to respond to my pictures and messages. Pics as promised Acan eating a snail Berry Rics This is what happens when I try to take things off those stupid plastic frag plugs..... I now have 5 the beginnings of a forest Getting a good feeding response from the Tort. The ones on the bottom right were all but dead, guess you can't count the Canes out ever! Mushies Ponape about 45 minutes after placing in tank. New Acan Horrible pic So some are good others not so much. Hands won't hold the camera as steady anymore and the tripod doesn't get the right angle at times. 1 Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Funny guy. I pick up my water from Coral Reef Farms. They get from a local collector. 5 miles out, not sure of the collection depth. I have used it from the beginning on both of my tanks and like the results. No worries about bad batches of salt mix. No switching brands. 25 cents a gallon, if I don't buy anything else from them. http://www.coralreeffarm.com/store.php?cat=13 That's a good deal and you get the real McCoy on top of it ... great for you Albert As promised I am posting pics for you. I will post more soon. I really appreciate your interest in my tank and the time you take to respond to my pictures and messages. Pics as promised Acan eating a snail Berry Rics This is what happens when I try to take things off those stupid plastic frag plugs..... I now have 5 the beginnings of a forest Getting a good feeding response from the Tort. The ones on the bottom right were all but dead, guess you can't count the Canes out ever! Mushies Ponape about 45 minutes after placing in tank. New Acan Horrible pic So some are good others not so much. Hands won't hold the camera as steady anymore and the tripod doesn't get the right angle at times. Thanks for the Pics and the kind words .. I try to make sure I reply to all messages in a timely manner here and check my FB regularly and post some messages and pictures there too ... Getting lots of new friend requests as well ... Thanks R. 1 Quote Link to comment
FlCandy Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 More! Thanks again. Full System Pic Crazy PE I thought the Torts only had hints of green on them? Mine is getting darker blue and the green is nearly glowing! So cool the bottom encrusting parts is green and the tip of some new growth is green but the rest is getting more and more pink. MONSTER Back to it's beautiful koosh ball self. New Acan! 1 Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 More! Thanks again. Full System Pic Crazy PE I thought the Torts only had hints of green on them? Mine is getting darker blue and the green is nearly glowing! So cool the bottom encrusting parts is green and the tip of some new growth is green but the rest is getting more and more pink. MONSTER Back to it's beautiful koosh ball self. New Acan! Very nice ... like it ... thanks for posting the additional pics The more the better ... I love to go back in the thread and look at all the great pics that have been posted. Appreciate it Albert 1 Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Funny guy. I pick up my water from Coral Reef Farms. They get from a local collector. 5 miles out, not sure of the collection depth. I have used it from the beginning on both of my tanks and like the results. No worries about bad batches of salt mix. No switching brands. 25 cents a gallon, if I don't buy anything else from them. http://www.coralreeffarm.com/store.php?cat=13 Good for you. Way to go. Real SW. That is a great way to go indeed 1 Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 ReHype who has not been very active here ... ReHype ... do you hear me ......... can we get some posts from you and some pictures ... thanks. I'm sure ReHype will be by, but sometimes members prefer to be most active on their own threads. It's just a preference FYI. Albert's Tank set up update 2 : First picture of the tank The rock looks brown but not because of diatoms, it is the color that it came in certain spots. As the rock ages and as I get the right light over it ... the color will change to a more normal less brown looking color ... Also right now the light over the tank to take these pictures is a 2600 K degree one which distorts the colors a great deal ... I'll post some better pictures once I have a decent light over the tank ... Looks good!!! Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Apart from showing that the water in the tank was ID to the water in the barrel both before and after the water change then I can't think of anything else. If so why would it be any different as you are simply doing a water change and surly the brand of salt used would be the only thing that made the difference along with the dilution of the tank waters PO3 PO4 and changes KH PH etc. You are simply mixing old and new water then removing some of that water but doing it at the same time Albert. BTW my PO$ and PO3 are "0" using Salifert test kits. . To really know what is going on Les you would have to put it to use and post the parameters of the water in the jug before you begin and then test the water in the jug again after the water change is completed and that would tell everyone what changes have actually occurred ... You could of course also test the tank water before the water change and then test it again after the water change and post those and that would tell us the difference. I think hobs here are not convinced because they have not seen any actual data taken from a real life test of the system. All in all I think it is a good device, just as anything that reduces manual work on the tank, especially lugging 5 gallon buckets around no fun ... Maybe you can repost on this device once you have the results of those tests and I think that will give readers here a far better idea of the results you are getting which can only be positive. Albert 1 Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) I'm sure ReHype will be by, but sometimes members prefer to be most active on their own threads. It's just a preference FYI. Looks good!!! Albert's Tank set-up Update 3 Thanks Kat but because of the lighting over it right now (I kind of shop light with a 2600K CFL) the brown of the Totoka rock seems even browner ... but I am going to try and find a CFL with a higher spectrum as I posted on Members Aquariums and am off to DIY Home D in a few minutes to see if they have anything I can use that is in the 6000 or so K until I decide what light to put over the 20H Here is another pic taken this morning around 7 am Still looking brownish but the Totoka live rock comes quite brown to begin with, so it's not due to brown algae growth or some sort of diatom ... I checked the water and silicate is very very low ... More later ... hopefully I'll find a better temp light Have a super great day Kat and all who read this Albert Apart from showing that the water in the tank was ID to the water in the barrel both before and after the water change then I can't think of anything else. If so why would it be any different as you are simply doing a water change and surly the brand of salt used would be the only thing that made the difference along with the dilution of the tank waters PO3 PO4 and changes KH PH etc. You are simply mixing old and new water then removing some of that water but doing it at the same time Albert. BTW my PO$ and PO3 are "0" using Salifert test kits. . Les ... well sort of I guess but if you do a water change then I would assume or better expect, that the water quality parameters of the water in the tank would be a little better after the water change than they were before. If not what would be the purpose of the water change :0 Maybe I was not clear enough in my previous message ... but what I am saying is: take measurements before and after the water change and then compare the two and if the device used does indeed perform then the results of the water quality in the tank should be better after the water change than before right ?Y Your thoughts .... I'm sure ReHype will be by, but sometimes members prefer to be most active on their own threads. It's just a preference FYI. I would for sure like Rehype to stop by and give us some input on some of the threads that were covered ... so hopefully he will at some point ... but I understand what you are saying Kat Edited June 26, 2012 by albertthiel 1 Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) Les ... well sort of I guess but if you do a water change then I would assume or better expect, that the water quality parameters of the water in the tank would be a little better after the water change than they were before. If not what would be the purpose of the water change :0 Maybe I was not clear enough in my previous message ... but what I am saying is: take measurements before and after the water change and then compare the two and if the device used does indeed perform then the results of the water quality in the tank should be better after the water change than before right ?Y Your thoughts .... Well kind of however as stated my PO3 and PO4 measure zero. which are the main things along with calcium magnesium that I also measure but then I have a calcium reactor that adds both mag and calc. I know you are aware that there are many more things which build up in our tank water than just PO3 and PO4 so water changes are diluting those that we don't measure or tend to. My PH, KH, Calc, Mag, SG are all fine so IMO the new salt water will mainly be diluting those things we don't measure and can't get rid of by our filtration methods including skimming. BTW I also run a phos reactor and carbon in another reactor. The carbon will also remove those chemicals and compounds we don't test for. Good question then as to why do we need to do water changes apart from diluting all the above can't remove or convert. I have heard of people never doing water changes when all params are within acceptable levels. Food for thought me thinks. Edited June 26, 2012 by atoll 1 Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Well kind of however as stated my PO3 and PO4 measure zero. which are the main things along with calcium magnesium that I also measure but then I have a calcium reactor that adds both mag and calc. I know you are aware that there are many more things which build up in our tank water than just PO3 and PO4 so water changes are diluting those that we don't measure or tend to. My PH, KH, Calc, Mag, SG are all fine so IMO the new salt water will mainly be diluting those things we don't measure and can't get rid of by our filtration methods including skimming. BTW I also run a phos reactor and carbon in another reactor. The carbon will also remove those chemicals and compounds we don't test for. Good question then as to why do we need to do water changes apart from diluting all the above can't remove or convert. I have heard of people never doing water changes when all params are within acceptable levels. Food for thought me thinks. Yes I am aware that all kinds of undesirable elements what we call pollutants can build up in the tank besides what we normally all test for ... My question though Les was what difference do you see in your tank's water quality parameters after you do those water changes ... are the differences in what you normally measure substantial or even reasonably lower or have you not been able to tell. Of course with all the filtration equipment you have on that tank a lot of what needs to be removed will be by those reactors etc. but if you do a water change you must have a reason I would think :0 Not trying to pester you for answers but I am still curious about what that device actually brings about in your tank in terms of say nitrate, phosphate, silicate, DOC, etc ... once the water change has been done ... Of course if the amount of water you change is low then the tests used may not really give you a way to determine the changes as so many tests measure in ranges and not in specific numbers e.g. say 0.09. Since I am not sure what test kits you use I cannot assume here that you are actually able to measure what the differences are. If you can let us know On another note : do you see or can you observe a difference in what all your lifeforms look like after the water change ? Sorry for keeping asking all those questions ... Albert 1 Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Yes I am aware that all kinds of undesirable elements what we call pollutants can build up in the tank besides what we normally all test for ... My question though Les was what difference do you see in your tank's water quality parameters after you do those water changes ... are the differences in what you normally measure substantial or even reasonably lower or have you not been able to tell. Of course with all the filtration equipment you have on that tank a lot of what needs to be removed will be by those reactors etc. but if you do a water change you must have a reason I would think :0 Not trying to pester you for answers but I am still curious about what that device actually brings about in your tank in terms of say nitrate, phosphate, silicate, DOC, etc ... once the water change has been done ... Of course if the amount of water you change is low then the tests used may not really give you a way to determine the changes as so many tests measure in ranges and not in specific numbers e.g. say 0.09. Since I am not sure what test kits you use I cannot assume here that you are actually able to measure what the differences are. If you can let us know On another note : do you see or can you observe a difference in what all your lifeforms look like after the water change ? Sorry for keeping asking all those questions ... Albert OK firstly I have yet to use the water changing device. I only got it yesterday and will use it for the first time in the next few days. I use Salifert test kits mainly as stated. I only test for those I have mentioned and they have stood me in good stead. I am aware there are more sensitive kits and even other kits for measuring things like silicate, phosphorus and the like but I do not use them. I find my eyes (even though I wear glasses) are the best indicator of my water along with the test kits I use. I don't tend to do routine water changes as such on a weekly basis but just do them around once a month then I do about a 20% water change. I can't say my corals look much better some look a little better while others are just the same while even others close up for a shiort while. This of course may have little or nothing to do with my water change as other things come into play. All I will add is that at the end of the day I am just doing a water change and IMO it matters little if I do it the old way tried and tested way ofy removing 20% of my tank water and refilling with 20% of new salt water or if I use this device. After all the device is only an aid to simplify water changes without lowering the tanks water level while doing so and as such works very well according to all those who I know who use one. I will find out soon no doubt. Furthermore I doubt few will test their water both the tank and new salt water to determine the difference. Sure many will test the params of the new salt water before it goes into their tank and maybe even the existing tank water just prior to a water chang. Few (unless tmaybe hey have done a water change due to some problem) will test the water immediately after a water change at least I don't and don't think many do. Maybe we should all do such tests but then if it ain't broke don't fix it come to mind. Still you poise some interesting questions and I thank you for your input, questions and suggestions. . 1 Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) OK firstly I have yet to use the water changing device. I only got it yesterday and will use it for the first time in the next few days.I use Salifert test kits mainly as stated. I only test for those I have mentioned and they have stood me in good stead. I am aware there are more sensitive kits and even other kits for measuring things like silicate, phosphorus and the like but I do not use them. I find my eyes (even though I wear glasses) are the best indicator of my water along with the test kits I use. I don't tend to do routine water changes as such on a weekly basis but just do them around once a month then I do about a 20% water change. I can't say my corals look much better some look a little better while others are just the same while even others close up for a shiort while. This of course may have little or nothing to do with my water change as other things come into play. All I will add is that at the end of the day I am just doing a water change and IMO it matters little if I do it the old way tried and tested way ofy removing 20% of my tank water and refilling with 20% of new salt water or if I use this device. After all the device is only an aid to simplify water changes without lowering the tanks water level while doing so and as such works very well according to all those who I know who use one. I will find out soon no doubt. Furthermore I doubt few will test their water both the tank and new salt water to determine the difference. Sure many will test the params of the new salt water before it goes into their tank and maybe even the existing tank water just prior to a water chang. Few (unless tmaybe hey have done a water change due to some problem) will test the water immediately after a water change at least I don't and don't think many do. Maybe we should all do such tests but then if it ain't broke don't fix it come to mind. Still you poise some interesting questions and I thank you for your input, questions and suggestions. . Thanks Les ... I guess we'll have to wait to hear about the device's workings till you have used it a few times and can give us some more feedback Thanks for all the details in all the messages and please do understand : I was in no way trying to give you a hard time :0 just posing some questions and I think you really did a super job responding and responding for which I thank you Have a great day and give us some more info once you have used it a few times ... In the interim feel free of course to bring up some new topics and pot more pictures .... Albert ----======------- ----======------- Real nice Ice hammer coral from NR member ReeferBoo .. Boo great job on that tank ... Nice look indeed Albert Edited June 26, 2012 by albertthiel 1 Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Red Rainbow Rock Anemone ... showing they can indeed look real nice and colorful Isn't that a real nice looking one ... Albert 1 Quote Link to comment
kgbenson Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Has anyone else found a study on the long term use of garlic additives and its effect. What I find odd is that so many manufacturers now offer garlic enhanced food yet we can't find any studies done on it .. wonder where they suddenly all got the idea from ? Their marketing departments. Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) Their marketing departments. Smile ...... ...... Smile ... I guess that could be the case but it had to start somewhere initially and as was discussed on this thread on previous pages there are indeed some benefits to using garlic .. but they may only be temporary (get the fish to eat because it smells like something new) Also reservations have been expressed as to long term use and possible internal organ damage But +1 on your reply .... I have been looking for more info on the Net but have not found anything besides what has already been mentioned .... Oddly enough most manufacturers now feature food with garlic and one that we are all familiar with even makes a two approach type system : food to which garlic has been added, and a bottle with extract that you add directly to the water (and in the directions it says that it helps cure ich) Here's a pic (note that I am not associated with Kent) Guess we'll have to wait for more hobbyists to come back with more info, and do some more searches on the Net to see if we can find more specific info by a lab or a controlled experiment that has been conducted FWIW Albert Edited June 26, 2012 by albertthiel 1 Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Thanks Les ... I guess we'll have to wait to hear about the device's workings till you have used it a few times and can give us some more feedback Thanks for all the details in all the messages and please do understand : I was in no way trying to give you a hard time :0 just posing some questions and I think you really did a super job responding and responding for which I thank you Have a great day and give us some more info once you have used it a few times ... In the interim feel free of course to bring up some new topics and pot more pictures .... Albert Nope that's fine Albert and I appreciate your thought and input along with your questions even if I can't answer them all. Differences of opinions, views, experiences and thoughts should all be part of such forums and debate is to be encouraged not stifled. I bought this unit on strong recommendations from many fellow reefers here in the UK so I know it is well tried and tested. I will of course report back when I have used it. If anybody is interested there are a couple of reviews on the net done by magazines just check out Reefloat AWC30 to find them. Thanks again. 1 Quote Link to comment
Aqua fire/medic Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Albert, lots of good info on this thread..... Thank you so much for your great input. Now..... Here is my question, I am getting a rainbow BTA shipped to me tomorrow and will be picking it up at the fedex center in the morning. I have never had a nem shipped to me before. What is your recommended acclimation procedure? I have read many different things online and would love to get your advice. Thanks! Quote Link to comment
gena Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Here is another pic taken this morning around 7 am Looks fantastic, Albert!!!! That's nice looking rock!!!!! Congrats on getting the tank started You may have said already, I'll admit I haven't read every page of this thread, but when was the last time you had a tank running? I'm really looking forward to the progress of your reef tank. 1 Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Nope that's fine Albert and I appreciate your thought and input along with your questions even if I can't answer them all. Differences of opinions, views, experiences and thoughts should all be part of such forums and debate is to be encouraged not stifled. I bought this unit on strong recommendations from many fellow reefers here in the UK so I know it is well tried and tested. I will of course report back when I have used it. If anybody is interested there are a couple of reviews on the net done by magazines just check out Reefloat AWC30 to find them. Thanks again. Thanks Les ... and yes I fully a agree with you .. that is how it should be and it is by getting different opinions that in the end we ALL learn ... Keep posting ... and have a great day 1 Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Looks fantastic, Albert!!!! That's nice looking rock!!!!! Congrats on getting the tank started You may have said already, I'll admit I haven't read every page of this thread, but when was the last time you had a tank running? I'm really looking forward to the progress of your reef tank. Thanks Gena ... yes it is nice rock indeed, looking a bit brown when you get it but the color changes as the tank ages and as lifeforms start growing on it ... Now to answer your question ... the last thank I had fully set up and equipped as a reef was in 1997 and at that time I also had a FOWLR set up for OOP my Clown Trigger ... Both were taken down when I moved in late 1999 so I would say that the last tanks I had were until 1999 so yes I have been out of the hobby for a while but I do find that a lot has remained the same ... the greatest change I think is in lighting and in hobs keeping those pest tanks with Mantis etc ... Other than that I am still working on a post about what I see as the biggest advances in the hobby in the last 10 years or so ... it will be coming soon here. Thanks for the kind words ... today I replaced the temp 2600 K light over the tank with a 5000K CFT (could not find a compact that had a higher K rating although I know they exist). So for now until I decide what light I will be using that is what I have over the tank. More than likely today I will be adding live sand from http://www.purereef.net ... if not today it will be tomorrow for sure .. Thanks seems to be doing fine already as the rock was pre-cured. Anyway I'll everyone updated ... 1 Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 today I replaced the temp 2600 K light over the tank with a 5000K CFT (could not find a compact that had a higher K rating although I know they exist). So for now until I decide what light I will be using that is what I have over the tank. Albert when you just can't find what you want locally...........eBay is your friend 1 Quote Link to comment
gena Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 You have been re-inspired...that's awesome What does your family think about it? I bet they are pleased to see you back in the game!!!!!! Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Albert, lots of good info on this thread..... Thank you so much for your great input. Now..... Here is my question, I am getting a rainbow BTA shipped to me tomorrow and will be picking it up at the fedex center in the morning. I have never had a nem shipped to me before. What is your recommended acclimation procedure? I have read many different things online and would love to get your advice. Thanks! This a though one to give advice on as you and I know how touchy they can be .. so this is FWIW ... I am adding pic as I think this is the one that is coming ... Hopefully it will come in a large bag with lots of water and heat packs in the box ... leave it in the bag and slowly start adding water from the tank so you can acclimate it over at least 3 hours time (keep an eye on the temp of the water in the bag as you have to keep that constant and get it to match the temp of the water in the tank) Keep adding tank water about every 30 minutes or so and keep doing that for as I said 3 hours (4 is even better). When the level of water in the bag gets too much, remove some of it. Keep adding tank water until you have acclimated it completely and to the point where the water in the bag is just about equal in params to the water in the tank . Then you need to transfer it ... do not touch it with your hands or you will have nematocysts attached to your fingers, do not use a net as it will get stuck into it and attached to the net and you will not get it to come lose easily and you may damage it when you do so. What I suggest is that you start taking water out of the bag till there is hardly any left and then hold the bag over the aquarium in the areas you want it to go and by tilting the bag let it slide out and into the water preferably without any air contact or as little as possible. Note that the spot you select for it will not necessarily be where it will end up as it will move around when it gets more comfortable and find a spot it likes. In fact it may move several times before it is happy with where it is. Once there do not try to move it. Leave it where it is and let it do what it wants to do. You will need to feed it but probably not for the first day. Hopefully it will not move close to another coral that it can sting ... but if that happens move the other coral not the BTA. I guess that is about it ... but if you have other questions based on this FWIW just post me another message and I will be more than happy to respond .... Good luck ... these are beautiful creatures but can be pretty hard to keep and they do have a mind of their own ... Keep us posted and send some pictures of what you do and how you are acclimating it and then when it is in the aquarium. Great buy and I hope all goes well with it. Albert Albert when you just can't find what you want locally...........eBay is your friend Yes it sure is but I like to "see" what I buy so unless it is equipment I prefer an LFS so I can see fish eat and also see what the corals etc ... really look like before I get them. I do have an eBay account so that is where I would go indeed Thanks You have been re-inspired...that's awesome What does your family think about it? I bet they are pleased to see you back in the game!!!!!! My wife is indeed, the only thing however she is worried about Gena is water spills ... :0 Thanks for the words of encouragement and I am very pleased and happy myself to get back into it, but I am a slow gower and do not rush anything so before it is all set up it will take some time ... better careful than sorry right Albert Quote Link to comment
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