albertthiel Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Albert's Tank set up update 1 : The rock .... So I went to Pure Reef this morning and looked at all the varieties of rock they had (pre-cured) and ended up settling on Totoka rock ... just a few pieces as I may add some different rock when I add some more in a few days depending on what water quality params I measure then. Totoka is very porous, has some life forms on it but very few from what I could tell, I'll have to look at it more carefully and figure out what i see. It is fairly light weight and porous and offers lots of little crevices for small lifeforms growth, and places to put mushrooms or frags ... I am putting it in the tank and need to try out some variations on the scaping ... will post a front view once I have done that but here are some pics of the rock I got : Quality is excellent, no nasty smells to it, and I did not see any unwanted animal lifeforms coming out of it when I put it on a small tarp and kept it moist for about 30 or minutes to see whether anything would crawl out of any of the holes and crevices. So far so good ... I'll place it in the tank in just a bit and play around with the scaping ... and post a pic later today .... Edit: This live rock is essentially made up of very old Acropora and Pocillopora heads making it the lightest weighted rock available; it's also the most porous and makes for excellent filtration. No sand yet ... that will be next ... Albert Edited June 25, 2012 by albertthiel Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 OK here is the low down on it and BTW these are selling like hot cakes here in the UK to aquarists to change water very simply. I was lucky to snap one up secondhand as they hardly ever come up for sale secondhand. They guy I got it off was moving up to a larger and was buying the next size up a 50 ltr one so he sold me his 30ltr one. Briefly. The way it works you simply fill it with your new make up water (RO or whatever) and add the required amount of salt. Drop a heater in to bring it up to temp. There is a pump inside that mixes the salt with the water for you. When all the salt has dissolved you then put the ends of 2 tubes into the aquarium and switch on. You leave it for around an hour and its done a water change for you. There is a timer in the control unit that will switch off after an hour. Job done and you then discharge the old water which is in the barrel. Before you ask yes you are mixing old and new water so you are throwing away some of the new water with the old but only a small percentage. Simples Quote Link to comment
chrssprngs Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Albert, when adjusting water params of the new water when performing a water change, what is the best method of lowering pH? Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 OK here is the low down on it and BTW these are selling like hot cakes here in the UK to aquarists to change water very simply. I was lucky to snap one up secondhand as they hardly ever come up for sale secondhand. They guy I got it off was moving up to a larger and was buying the next size up a 50 ltr one so he sold me his 30ltr one. Briefly. The way it works you simply fill it with your new make up water (RO or whatever) and add the required amount of salt. Drop a heater in to bring it up to temp. There is a pump inside that mixes the salt with the water for you. When all the salt has dissolved you then put the ends of 2 tubes into the aquarium and switch on. You leave it for around an hour and its done a water change for you. There is a timer in the control unit that will switch off after an hour. Job done and you then discharge the old water which is in the barrel. Before you ask yes you are mixing old and new water so you are throwing away some of the new water with the old but only a small percentage. Simples Thanks Les and yes I figured that since I saw only 1 jug that the two waters were being mixed ... had to be ... but I have seen system that take out the old water and add only the new, also using a large jug and a second one where the removed water goes but it takes a few mods to the tank set up (for overflow to the removed water vat, or to the sump if the excess is removed from there (I think if you remember Dupla had a trickle filter that had such a system built in) But you are obviously happy with what you got ... and for a good deal .... Power to you Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Albert, when adjusting water params of the new water when performing a water change, what is the best method of lowering pH? Are you using RO/DI water ... ? And do you want to lower it after you added salt ? One way to do it is to use small amounts of Muriatic acid which is easy to get, till you reach the pH you want. Caution : it is very acidic and you need to take all precautions so you do not get it on your hands, inhale the fumes, etc .... Only small amounts will usually be needed. There are commercial products on the market I believe that you can buy but most are based on exactly the same principle and contain an acid of some sort. Using Muriatic acid will be a lot cheaper .... BUT again be careful and start with very small amounts till you can determine how much that small amount lowers the pH within about 1 hour's time. If you need more info let me know Albert Quote Link to comment
jimbro Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 you can find muriatic acid cheap at most pool stores too i would start by making a diluted 10:1 solution so you only have to handle the concentrated stuff once, rather than every time you do a water change remember, add acid to water. never the other way around. Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) you can find muriatic acid cheap at most pool stores too i would start by making a diluted 10:1 solution so you only have to handle the concentrated stuff once, rather than every time you do a water change remember, add acid to water. never the other way around. Good suggestion and yes I forgot to mention (my oops) that you add acid to the water and not the other way around .... Thanks Jimbro for clarifying that Albert Edited June 25, 2012 by albertthiel Quote Link to comment
Genj Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Changing water with a single container makes no sense to me at all. You are reducing the effectiveness of the water change greatly, and potentially contaminating the container. It's like flushing the toilet while you are still pissing. Am I missing something? Edited June 25, 2012 by Genj Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Changing water with a single container makes no sense to me at all. You are reducing the effectiveness of the water change greatly, and potentially contaminating the container. Am I missing something? Genj I guess it depends on how much water the container contains and how much water you are changing as what you are adding will only be affected by a small percentage of the inflowing water's quality ... If the container holds say 10 gallons and you are only changing 3 gallons then as you continue to pump water the new water is only affected a little by the water that is coming from the tank. OTOH ... I would modify the system and get a second vat or container hooked up where the water coming out of the tank is captured in .. that would eliminate the cross contamination of the water effect that occurs when there is only one vat ... Les any thoughts from your end ... Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Changing water with a single container makes no sense to me at all. You are reducing the effectiveness of the water change greatly, and potentially contaminating the container. It's like flushing the toilet while you are still pissing. Am I missing something? Probably. From the site .AWC-How it works! "lets say you have a 300l system and you want to do a 10% water change, you hook on a 30l AWC and set it running. Now you have 330l system with 30l of it being fresh.Now once its all mixed you have added 10% fresh water to the system and also in the AWC. when you take the AWC off you take away 90% old water and 10% new water leaving almost 10% fresh water in the 300l system! ----- simples!!" The container doubles as a place to mix the salt and RO. The unit when used at room temperature requires no heating as the new and old water are mixed slowly during the exchange meaning there is no appreciable change in water temperature within the aquarium. note: should there be a large temperature difference then inclusion of an aquarium heater is recommended whilst mixing the salt solution It is not just temperature though; all the parameters including pH are changed slowly over the course of the water change meaning no sudden shocks to coral or fish. As well as meaning all the equipment in the aquarium can be left running as there is no change in water level within the aquarium. This hands out approach can only be beneficial to livestock. A 31.5 ltr container will do a 10% change on a 250 litre system. The 2.5 litres of new water that will be disposed of when the Automatic Water Change Tank is disconnected is a fair trade when all the benefits of the system are taken into account. Here's the web site url. http://www.reefloat.com/ Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Flatworms are a "problem" as we all know .... and here are some pictures These are mostly the Brown types, with a few different ones, but there are many others and some are very selective on what corals or inverts they will attack and destroy. Albert Edited June 25, 2012 by albertthiel Quote Link to comment
zacheyp Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hello Albert, I'm not sure if this is the right type of question to ask in this thread so you don't have to answer it but if you do thank you. My question is what do you think of the biocube 14? I am somewhat of a beginner. I know something bigger would be ideal but i just don't have the space. Thank you!!!!! Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Genj I guess it depends on how much water the container contains and how much water you are changing as what you are adding will only be affected by a small percentage of the inflowing water's quality ... If the container holds say 10 gallons and you are only changing 3 gallons then as you continue to pump water the new water is only affected a little by the water that is coming from the tank. OTOH ... I would modify the system and get a second vat or container hooked up where the water coming out of the tank is captured in .. that would eliminate the cross contamination of the water effect that occurs when there is only one vat ... Les any thoughts from your end ... I understand where you are coming from Albert but the above explains it better than I could. This unit works on a syphon and return pump so the barrel has to be air tight with the top screwed on well to seal it. When you switch the pump on water is pumped out of the barrel and in doing so creates the syphon. I know of many who have one and ALL say its a great piece of kit making water changes a snip. I will use mine in the next week or so but reduce its water capacity by putting in a couple of plastic (food grade of course) bottles filled with RO water as I don't need to do a 30ltr water change as this would be nearly a third water change and 20/25% would fine and more than enough. Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hello Albert,I'm not sure if this is the right type of question to ask in this thread so you don't have to answer it but if you do thank you. My question is what do you think of the biocube 14? I am somewhat of a beginner. I know something bigger would be ideal but i just don't have the space. Thank you!!!!! You can certainly ask the question here as this thread is for questions. I have not run a BC14 or a BC29, and have seen two variations of them : one with a Metal Halide and one with other forms of light although the BC14 may not come with MH's. I was at Atlanta Aquarium recently and at Pure Reef here in the Atlanta area and saw the BC14 and the BC29 set up without any modifications as both these stores sell them, and all I can say is that the aquariums looked in great shape (well all the animals in it). I would say that if you have limited space then the BC14 would be a good all in one to use and set up but I caution you of course not to overload the tank as you only have a small amount of water .... and you do not have all the filtration that some of the other systems have. Mind you as long as you start real slowly and do not overload the tank I believe that it is a good choice. Note though that I saw both and found that the cost price of the BC29 was not all that much higher than the price of the BC14 so if you can fit that in you may wish to consider the larger one. There are quite a few who will read your post and my response and hopefully they will give you additional feedback. Feel free to ask more questions anytime you have any. Here is a link to a listing of resellers and a price comparison chart : http://www.google.com/products/catalog?cli...IwAQ#ps-sellers Albert This could get interesting..wanna put a little $$ on it??? J/k Zeph ... when I can I collect ? I understand where you are coming from Albert but the above explains it better than I could. This unit works on a syphon and return pump so the barrel has to be air tight with the top screwed on well to seal it. When you switch the pump on water is pumped out of the barrel and in doing so creates the syphon. I know of many who have one and ALL say its a great piece of kit making water changes a snip. I will use mine in the next week or so but reduce its water capacity by putting in a couple of plastic (food grade of course) bottles filled with RO water as I don't need to do a 30ltr water change as this would be nearly a third water change and 20/25% would fine and more than enough. Yes I guess that it is a way to cut down on water changes and anything that does that is always welcome of course as W C's is probably one of the chores hobbyists like the least IMO ... so go for it ... and your idea of reducing the inside by putting in those bottles should indeed do it for you Albert Quote Link to comment
Genj Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) I checked out the site, and I understand what they are doing. It's the same as pouring in in the new make up water, and then taking out an amount that brings your tank back to its normal level. They include a filter to remove any detritus coming from the tank water. It certainly reduces effectiveness of the water change, but the trade off is the automation. As someone that went to great lengths to plumb my house to allow me to have fresh salt on tap, and a drain line hooked into the tank itself, I don't blame people for using a device such as this. I hated mixing 5 gallon buckets and carrying them around! What would be really cool is if they modified the design to allow for a bladder that would contain the old water, and keep the makeup water clean. It's what carpet cleaners do when using a single container. Edited June 25, 2012 by Genj Quote Link to comment
zacheyp Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 You can certainly ask the question here as this thread is for questions. I have not run a BC14 or a BC29, and have seen two variations of them : one with a Metal Halide and one with other forms of light although the BC14 may not come with MH's. I was at Atlanta Aquarium recently and at Pure Reef here in the Atlanta area and saw the BC14 and the BC29 set up without any modifications as both these stores sell them, and all I can say is that the aquariums looked in great shape (well all the animals in it). I would say that if you have limited space then the BC14 would be a good all in one to use and set up but I caution you of course not to overload the tank as you only have a small amount of water .... and you do not have all the filtration that some of the other systems have. Mind you as long as you start real slowly and do not overload the tank I believe that it is a good choice. Note though that I saw both and found that the cost price of the BC29 was not all that much higher than the price of the BC14 so if you can fit that in you may wish to consider the larger one. There are quite a few who will read your post and my response and hopefully they will give you additional feedback. Feel free to ask more questions anytime you have any. Here is a link to a listing of resellers and a price comparison chart : http://www.google.com/products/catalog?cli...IwAQ#ps-sellers Albert Zeph ... when I can I collect ? Yes I guess that it is a way to cut down on water changes and anything that does that is always welcome of course as W C's is probably one of the chores hobbyists like the least IMO ... so go for it ... and your idea of reducing the inside by putting in those bottles should indeed do it for you Albert In a biocube 14 i'm thinking 2-3 fish, does this sound right??? thanks again!!! Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I checked out the site, and I understand what they are doing. It's the same as pouring in in the new make up water, and then taking out an amount that brings your tank back to its normal level. They include a filter to remove any detritus coming from the tank water. It certainly reduces effectiveness of the water change, but the trade off is the automation. As someone that went to great lengths to plumb my house to allow me to have fresh salt on tap, and a drain line hooked into the tank itself, I don't blame people for using a device such as this. I hated mixing 5 gallon buckets and carrying them around! What would be really cool is if they modified the design to allow for a bladder that would contain the old water, and keep the makeup water clean. Genj ... "to allow to have fresh salt on tap" ... can you elaborate on that ... Albert Quote Link to comment
atoll Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) What would be really cool is if they modified the design to allow for a bladder that would contain the old water, and keep the makeup water clean. In that case they can have mine................................ but its well shot. and leaks occasionally I checked out the site, and I understand what they are doing. It's the same as pouring in in the new make up water, and then taking out an amount that brings your tank back to its normal level. UREEKA! But not quite. The thing is there is very little difference in the tanks water level as the water is changed. So you are not removing then adding but removing and adding at the same time Edited June 25, 2012 by atoll Quote Link to comment
Genj Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Genj ... "to allow to have fresh salt on tap" ... can you elaborate on that ... Albert Albert, I have a 100 gallon potable water cistern that I picked up from an agriculture supply store which is directly connected to my RODI system and is on a circulating pump that has a valve on it at my sump. The plumbing runs from the cistern via pvc pipe up and into the room with the tank. I simply open the valve and viola, fresh salt! At 15% water changes weekly, I make a new batch about every 6 weeks. In that case they can have mine................................ but its well shot. and leaks occasionally UREEKA! But not quite. The thing is there is very little difference in the tanks water level as the water is changed. So you are not removing then adding but removing and adding at the same time Hah! :lol: Got it, basically it's doing an even exchange. Edited June 25, 2012 by Genj Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 In that case they can have mine................................ but its well shot. and leaks occasionally UREEKA! But not quite. The thing is there is very little difference in the tanks water level as the water is changed. So you are not removing then adding but removing and adding at the same time To really know what is going on Les you would have to put it to use and post the parameters of the water in the jug before you begin and then test the water in the jug again after the water change is completed and that would tell everyone what changes have actually occurred ... You could of course also test the tank water before the water change and then test it again after the water change and post those and that would tell us the difference. I think hobs here are not convinced because they have not seen any actual data taken from a real life test of the system. All in all I think it is a good device, just as anything that reduces manual work on the tank, especially lugging 5 gallon buckets around no fun ... Maybe you can repost on this device once you have the results of those tests and I think that will give readers here a far better idea of the results you are getting which can only be positive. Albert Quote Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Lost the anthias a short time ago. The remaining anthias seems to still be doing well - eating anything I put into the tank (but then again, so was the other as of yesterday). This is what she looked like about an hour before she died: And how she looked yesterday: This is the other one today: Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Lost the anthias a short time ago. The remaining anthias seems to still be doing well - eating anything I put into the tank (but then again, so was the other as of yesterday). This is what she looked like about an hour before she died: And how she looked yesterday: This is the other one today: Sorry to read it Jedimaster ... What happened ... any idea ... or did you post it elsewhere and I missed the post? I think this is yet just another reason why hobbyists should IMHO stay away from trying to keep any type of Anthias, even those that other forums or fish store websites say are easy to keep ... I do not believe them. Try getting a " will live" warrantee from a store who sells them ... you know that you won't ... (anyone who knows of exceptions is welcome to post it here). These are very difficult fish to keep especially in smaller tanks and this was confirmed in earlier posts by Wombat. Of course Zeph may be the exception here as he seems to be able to keep everything alive ... !! Whatever he touches turns to Gold ... and ReHype who has not been very active here ... ReHype ... do you hear me ......... can we get some posts from you and some pictures ... thanks. Of course anyone is welcome to post pics .. the more the better I say .... Albert Edited June 25, 2012 by albertthiel Quote Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Sorry to read it Jedimaster ... What happened ... any idea ... or did you post it elsewhere and I missed the post? I think this is yet just another reason why hobbyists should IMHO stay away from trying to keep any type of Anthias, even those that other forums or fish store websites say are easy to keep ... I do not believe them. Try getting a " will live" warrantee from a store who sells them ... you know that you won't ... (anyone who knows of exceptions is welcome to post it here). These are very difficult fish to keep especially in smaller tanks and this was confirmed in earlier posts by Wombat. Of course Zeph may be the exception here as he seems to be able to keep everything alive ... !! Whatever he touches turns to Gold ... and ReHype who has not been very active here ... I'd venture to say that it is not from lack of feeding. I have never, ever seen fish that ate as heartily as the anthias did. A few times each day, every day, and every single morsel they could. I honestly do not know what would have caused it. Maybe she just could not handle the stress that the Cupramine is putting on her, maybe the she-male was beating her up when I was not watching, the only things I can think of. If anyone has any info they could share, please don't hesitate. Liveaquaria has a 14-day guarantee on their fish, and that is the most I have ever seen. The store I purchased these anthias from apparently has a tailgate guarantee, as my dad would put it - guaranteed to survive until they can't see your tailgate anymore. And Zeph, please come and sneeze in my tanks!!! I WANT EVERYTHING TO LIVE!!!! Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Albert's Tank set up update 2 : First picture of the tank The rock looks brown but not because of diatoms, it is the color that it came in certain spots. As the rock ages and as I get the right light over it ... the color will change to a more normal less brown looking color ... Also right now the light over the tank to take these pictures is a 2600 K degree one which distorts the colors a great deal ... I'll post some better pictures once I have a decent light over the tank ... I'd venture to say that it is not from lack of feeding. I have never, ever seen fish that ate as heartily as the anthias did. A few times each day, every day, and every single morsel they could. I honestly do not know what would have caused it. Maybe she just could not handle the stress that the Cupramine is putting on her, maybe the she-male was beating her up when I was not watching, the only things I can think of. If anyone has any info they could share, please don't hesitate. Liveaquaria has a 14-day guarantee on their fish, and that is the most I have ever seen. The store I purchased these anthias from apparently has a tailgate guarantee, as my dad would put it - guaranteed to survive until they can't see your tailgate anymore. And Zeph, please come and sneeze in my tanks!!! I WANT EVERYTHING TO LIVE!!!! I gather it is probably the copper and probably the stress from being chased around indeed but who knows with Anthias ... Albert Edited June 25, 2012 by albertthiel 1 Quote Link to comment
chrssprngs Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Are you using RO/DI water ... ? And do you want to lower it after you added salt ? One way to do it is to use small amounts of Muriatic acid which is easy to get, till you reach the pH you want. Caution : it is very acidic and you need to take all precautions so you do not get it on your hands, inhale the fumes, etc .... Only small amounts will usually be needed. There are commercial products on the market I believe that you can buy but most are based on exactly the same principle and contain an acid of some sort. Using Muriatic acid will be a lot cheaper .... BUT again be careful and start with very small amounts till you can determine how much that small amount lowers the pH within about 1 hour's time. If you need more info let me know Albert I use natural sea water for my water changes. I use RO/DI for top off. So, no salt mix involved. Edited June 25, 2012 by chrssprngs 1 Quote Link to comment
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