Peroxide saves my Tank! With pics to Prove It!

[MedRed]

Thank you jestep! A couple people have now warned me that the plants might have problems. I think I'm going to follow up with one more small dose in a week to see if they react badly or not. I decided not to push it with this tank, maybe I'll set up something that is more conducive for testing.

 

I'm not really fighting any algae problems, but there are a few patches that I can observe how they respond. I was thinking that the grass might benefit from keeping their leaves free of micro algae.

 

-----

 

Thanks Brandon! In my experience, BTAs react more, then Maxi-minis, then Rock Flower anemones the least.

 

For the seagrass, I haven't been dosing anything but CO2 (which I'm going to experiment with cutting back on, by raising the pH via the controller). I've considered dosing iron, but haven't gotten around to ordering any. However, it doesn't appear that supplementation is required.

 

I'll send you a PM.

 

I doubt it. We've used peroxide in fresh water planted tanks for years. It would only kill pest algae and not the higher forms of plant life.

[Reefie]

Tagging along

[PinkDamsel]

Something terrible has happened, and I don’t know what to think. Came in to the office this morning to find my candy canes and Meteor shower nearly dead (see pics below).

 

Maybe I shouldn’t be posting this in the peroxide thread, but as I’m attempting to figure out what happened, peroxide tx gone bad is a candidate. And in any case, I’m upset and not thinking too clearly.

 

Here is what happened last week:

1. Thursday evening as usual I mixed change water, and it was aerating all day Friday
   
2. Friday when I went to adjust salinity, it was too low; since the mix is 4-parts and I couldn’t be sure if 1 or all were out of whack. I threw it out and mixed up some new, double-checking all the measures. It was late so it only aerated for 1-1.5 hrs.
   
3. Fed the tank as usual on Friday.
   
4. I treated 2 frag plugs in @ 70/30 tank water/peroxide for 2-3 minutes, then soaked them in 100% tankwater for a long time before putting back in the tank.
   
5. I also soaked the intake tube on the HOB filter in peroxide to get rid of diatoms there, but rinsed it many times before putting it back (I have done this before with no adverse affects).
   
6. Drained the tank and placed paper towels very damp (but not dripping) w. peroxide in 2 spots w. heavy algae.
   
7. Refilled tank, added Fuel supplement, set up ATO, lid, etc. and went home.
   
8. Monday morning the 2 corals are almost dead. The rest of the corals look OK.
   

Sabotage?

Just to complicate matters, there was vandalism in the office over the weekend! A colleague had a pumpkin on his desk and someone entered his office, cut it open, scooped out pieces and smeared them all over. Nothing like this has ever happened before. Great! So someone is marching around my office w. a knife and I often work late alone.

 

And if vandals are about my tank would be a tempting target.

 

However, all the corals were in place, the lid was in place, as well as the piece of filter floss I put on top where the lid doesn’t cover to keep the snails in. So I tend to think it wasn’t an intruder, but even if it were, what was done to the tank?

 

Peroxide?

• The skeletons are snow white on both corals, they look bleached.
  
• Once before a stony went snow-white following a peroxide swipe on nearby glass (see the AFTER pic in post 336, the stylo is right next to the titan-turned-orange; same post shows another pix of Meteor where skin lighted from another glass tx but later regained its dark blue color)
  
• I didn’t do anything unusual other than the peroxide tx.
  
• Yet the red titan on & below the injured candies is not affected
  
• Other than near where I applied it, am not seeing a general all-over lightening of coralline like I had when I swabbed the entire glass w. peroxide
  
• If a drop of peroxide spilled onto a coral, I would expect just that area to be affected, not the entire coral as now. On the other hand, if it’s peroxide in the tank water, why did it target just these two corals? Are stonies possibly more sensitive than other corals? My other stony is a Duncan and looks OK. And if they’re SO sensitive why didn’t this happen w. earlier treatments when I used more peroxide?
  

Can anyone think of another possible cause?

[BLoCkCliMbeR]

as far as it killing "higher" plants in both FW and SW, i believe its a cell wall (thickness?) thing, as far as resistance to peroxide.

 

in my FW, it kills off hair and BBA no problems, only plant kind of affected was a tiger lilly.

 

in SW, hair, bryo, various slimes were taken out, but calurpa and bubble seemed unaffected.

 

again, in SW i never dosed in my tank and only spot treated some rock with a diluted source. i quit way too soon imo.

[brandon429]

PinkDamsel~

 

read this at 5 pm and have been thinking about it since, while doing EOD tasks, I can understand how you feel at this point~

 

low times in tanks are NOT FUN~~~

 

caulastrea in my tank was not affected by dripping straight peroxide right into the emersed coral, it filling the mouth cavity up (but not really bubbling much interestingly, says something about the bacterial fauna directly on the coral polyp) and waiting there for 5 to 8 mins while I did tank wiping w a peroxide rag. in no way shape or form were these guys babied in the early rounds of peroxide testing.

 

 

the way I had to angle my plastic dropper to curve inside the bowl, and target the peroxide right on the target algae, let a few drops fall from the tip as I was maneuvering it into place. the drops landed right on my prized corals...with the water drained becase I do spot treatments as the method of killing pests. they simply opened up the next day and its happened about 5 more times since then, my first offering is some comparative that these species of LPS are insensitive to peroxide in much stronger doses.

 

 

I can't forsee how a chemical insult, waterborne, would be target specific as your corals show. in the worst possible peroxide overdose

in ten years of straight keeping of caulastrea, Ive not once seen it recede to the skeleton across a select colony in a two day period, while other lps (duncanopsammia) remain just fine, and they are sensitive indicators of the water thats for sure. they react FAST to ammonia and shrivel up in disgust

 

Obviously the crappy brain coral I tried to mail you in better condition lol came to mind but here's why it didn't seem like too big a deal at the time. I have bought and attempted to rehabilitate a zillion mostly lost corals, flesh all withdrawn, bleached, barely hanging on and they either lived or died and transmitted nothing to the greater ecosystem, Ive never had an infective aspect of coral rehabilitation so I meant really well in sending that. its possible, but highly unlikely that my brain coral xmitted something into your tank. just to rap about that variable anyway...i stand the same chance buying from the lfs it seems, possibly but unlikely.

 

my paper towel technique is to press it hard on the sides of the tank wiping algae, watching it roll and pool down at the bottom of my tank in no particular concern. then let it sit for a second, refill, and change most of the water a last time for the final run. its a far less forgiving dose of peroxide in just a gallon, direct application in some cases, its a helpful way to test tolerances at least to some degree.

 

what happens in the next 24 hours matters. how fast you did the rescue water change, and how much volume also matters, the rescue water change (up to and including a 100% change of water) is the safest reaction that can be had in a pico reef of concern. By having no fish your tank is already primed for that form of CPR anyway, the tanks with the fish get that extra concern when an unforseen challenge comes up to the tank. I need to go back and re read if you measured ammonia at anytime today

Edited October 11, 2011 by brandon429

[bluwtr]

I was introduced to this forum throught a local one after asking about the algae in my tank. What I've been fighting is red hair algae, also known as wire algae. I believe it is Gelidium. I tried everything--urchins, API Algaefix, 72 hr lights out, no feeding, extra GFO etc. and this stuff didn't even sneeze. Well, after being given the link here and reading about 14 or so pages, I took the plunge. Below is my rough and dirty account. Sorry for the long post, but wanted to give all of the details.

 

THANK YOU ALL FOR THE HELP AND KNOWLEDGE!!!! You truly saved my tank.

 

Wes

 

Okay, so I'm about pissed off and I'm at my wits end trying to solve this problem. I've got red hair algae in my tank and this crap has EXPLODED. Just to be clear it is NOT cyano. This is an actual algae that also goes by the name of "wire algae" and that name fits. You can't pull this junk off. You can't scrape this crap off. Lights out isn't going to work because I've got some of it growing on the underside of my LR that is in total shade and it is just as happy as can be. I'm skimming heavier, I'm doing my WC as scheduled, I blow off my LR with a baster to help keep detritus down, I'm using 3:1 blue to white lights with the blues on most of the time. I'm dosing API Marine AlgaeFix. I bought an urchin that is supposed to eat it--nope, or not from what I can tell. I bought a sea hare, and it is eating it, but I don't know if it will really help, because it just mows it and doesn't scrape the rocks, there fore leaving parts to regrow. My turbo's had died and I hadn't replaced them, but I got one yesterday and it too seemed to eat it, but who the hell really knows. My next purchase is going to be a blue tuxedo urchin--they are supposed to eat it and urchins scrape the rock. I've stopped feeding everything including my fish. I will feed the fish about every 4 days and see if that helps. This crap is getting to the point where I am going to have to take my tank down. It is that bad.

 

Please, someone give me a solution. I don't know what else to try/do.

 

After suggestions of this site and then lots of reading:

 

Well after having read up much more on the H2O2, I began dosing yesterday. I've not noticed a change in the algae, but from everything I've read it takes a minimum of 3 days to see any results. I have noticed however, that where I put the H202 into a spot of the algae, that spot has now turned a light pink from a dark almost maroon red. I may end up dipping each rock even though that is my last resort as I don't want to break my tank down again. None of my corals seem bothered by the dose however, my SPS initially retracted their polyps, but 4 hours later and they are back out. I guess it just irritates them a bit, but again, from what I've read that was to be expected.

 

I added two more species of urchins today as well. I believe that in war you can never have enough weapons!

 

Will update in a few days.

 

 

And as of yesterday:

 

The threads that were recommended talked about dipping and systemic dosing. I started doing a systemic dose a week ago Friday with little effect, however, I dipped a couple of rocks a few days later, and let me tell you, BAM!!! The colors go from deep maroon--light pink--translucent pink--clear---and gone. That crap works. Within an hour or so, the algae turns and actually glows under my actinics and moon lights. I even dipped the AOG palys and some Zoa's that were attached and they could have cared less. They didn't even slime. When doing the systemic dose, the only coral that didn't like it was my Goniopora. The polyps retracted for a few hours, but they came back out and were fine. I figured that once I get 90-95% of it killed my CUC would keep the rest under control, but if I could dip every rock I would.

 

Today was WC day, so I added about 2.5 gallons of tank water to a bucket, dumped in a bunch of H2O2 and proceeded to tear down my rock work and dip each rock for 3-5 minutes. I've put the tank back together as best I could with basically only a few rock back to where they were originally and all of my corals are doing fine except two. My Xenia and Goniopora are both looking puny, but in my research it seems that Xenia is the only coral that will die from the H2O2. I think the Goniopora is just pissed off. All of my SPS, LPS, Zoa's and palys are happy as can be.

 

The urchins and sea hare seem to eat it more when it's dying as well. I'm sure it must be much easier to digest because I'm sure the cellulose is breaking down. On some of my rocks this crap was really bad. On those I did a second treatment by holding the rock in my hand and pouring the hydrogen peroxide over it and letting it sit for a couple of minutes. Those pieces are showing the best results of them all. I can say how relieved I am being able to kill this garbage. BTW, both RBTA's are happy as well.

 

 

Pic of one rock. Not all were this bad but...

 

Forgot to add the stats of my tank--55gal mixed, 10 DIY acrylic sump, retro T5 running ATI bulbs, GFO and GAC in reactor, kalk in ATO.

Edited October 11, 2011 by bluwtr

[PinkDamsel]

Thanks, Brandon. Sorry if I sounded a bit hysterical. I can't imagine the brain had anything to do with it, it's been intank since Tuesday.

 

Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate = 0.

 

The change water used Friday had not aerated very long; I wonder if that contributed.

 

I also note that when you treat w. peroxide you do 2 changes, not one. But maybe it wasn't the peroxide at all, I just don't know.

[brandon429]

Pink this kind of challenge is fascinating to pinpoint, wish I had a clearer suggestion but you got me -stumped- I have been reading around some other forums for ideas and w send you anything I find~!

B

 

Bluwtr Im so glad you basted that bad stuff off your rock

after having unncessarily lost an aged pico reef to the red wire (used chemi clean and it didn't prevent the comeback) this thread came about 5 years too late. at least going forward we have the insurance policy

[Reef Miser]

My clove polyps seem to be very sensitive to HP while nothing else in the tank is effected. They close up after I treat rocks or try very low dose systemic dosing. I am not so sure they would survive a dip.

 

Blutwr- Thanks for adding to the thread. I'm glad it is working for you. Do you have the after treatment pic to add to your before pic? Your goniopora may be sensitive too. Let us know if it pulls through.

 

PinkDamsel- It does seem that different corals have a different sensitivity to the treatment. I'm sorry for the lost corals. Hopefully, as time goes on we will better understand this treatment and be able to minimize loss.

[Reefie]

Just started Day 2 of systemic dose on my Ibox8 Pico and my BC29. The Ibox is just a FOWLR with 2 tiny clowns, so far so good. However I haven't noticed anything with the GHA yet, I'm reluctant to increase the dosage higher than the 1ml/10gal regime. I will give it the full 5 days before making any changes. My clams seem unaffected by the HP so far, same goes for the corals and livestock.

[PinkDamsel]

PinkDamsel- It does seem that different corals have a different sensitivity to the treatment. I'm sorry for the lost corals. Hopefully, as time goes on we will better understand this treatment and be able to minimize loss.

 

Thank you ReefMiser. I apologize, everyone, for barreling in here and getting a bit hysterical yesterday. Between the “burned” corals and the knife slasher still at large in my building I was kinda freaked out.

 

I don’t in fact know for sure if my problem is related to peroxide at all, but if it is I now believe it is in combination w. something else. Current candidates are (1) my unusual salt mix/perhaps wrong amounts mixed and/or (2) non-oxygenated water/wrong pH and/or (3) something yet unidentified. But I won’t keep grinding on my problem here.

 

I do want to document the success of getting rid of a pretty lush spot of algae between Friday evening & Monday morning. Before & After pics below.

[brandon429]

hey thats a great pic! I think your post has a place here because its concomitant to a peroxide dosage, its good aquarium science to ponder all variables.

 

I have felt the same way before when walking into the room and seeing a particular coral assaulted (mine was from space fighting between sweeper tentacles) sorry it also factors in some guy who shouldn't have been in the office thats wierd. hopefully you have good security cams!

[bluwtr]

Here is a pic of the same rock that I showed in my original post as of yesterday.

 

H2O2 rocks!

 

[brandon429]

looks sharp! that was a heavy infestation it will still take a few more days and a little manual removal after the holdfasts have died, but its still good as gone. about one full week Id expect before you can make the rock totally barren of that pest.

[seabass]

I dosed again today; this time 10ml. I let it be for about 20 minutes before changing out about 75% of the water. This still left a full dose of about 1ml per 10 gallons of water. Note: I'm not recommending this dosage, just experimenting with it.

 

This might be a bit extreme as the rock is oxidizing pretty good.

 

The anemones seem pretty good with it.

 

The seagrass shows no signs of oxidation.

 

While changing out the water, I vacuumed off the top of the sand bed and added more sand.

Sorry for the iPhone pics (no white balance); I didn't have my camera with me.

 

 

I'll let everyone know the results in a couple of days. So far I have noticed that dosing has reduced the amount of micro algae build up on the glass.

[brandon429]

Seabass thats a great successive shot of the whitening on that rock. it will nuke that green, absolutely nuke it. Im enjoying watching the effects/non effects on the higher order plants and those nice anems that I wouldn't have room for but ever so admire

[seabass]

Thanks Brandon! I had my camera today to give you a better view of the effects of the H₂O₂.

 

FTS:

 

Live rock:

 

Closer view:

 

Anemone closeup:

[garth11]

Dear all,

 

I have started "spot" dosing hydrogen peroxide two weeks ago on hair algae and caulerpa (after manual removal). It works very well up to now.

My dosage is 5 ml two times a day for an about 20 gallon (87 litres + 20 litres sump) tank.

I have one question for you "guru" of the treatment:

is the hydrogen peroxide destroying the bacterial population of my live rocks and maybe in a mid time the denitrifying capability of my tank will be lost?

 

I am so sorry for my english

Best regards and thank for your reply

Edited October 15, 2011 by garth11

[brandon429]

proof is in the ammonia test kit

 

. any insult to filter bacteria will register as free ammonia based on the bioload in your tank.

 

The peroxide we use is not a strong bactericidal agent its too diluted and a small overall boost in oxygen is not immediately harmful to a tank.

 

the bacteria we rely on for filtration aren't cells exposed directly to the tank water and peroxide, they are locked in a gel matrix called biofilm which isolates them from the destructive properties of peroxide such that it dissipates well before the biofilm matrix is penetrated in the dosages we use.

 

there is a weak antibacterial property to it via oxygen destruction but it is not detectable in our systems, I would imagine if you massed the dosage or used the 35% stuff I could see that causing a problem.

Edited October 15, 2011 by brandon429

[cruzH20polo]

So i know people have great success with dips and some people with whole tank doses

however some have noted specific corals that do not tolerate it well,

 

can we make a list of coral that no not respond to well H2O2, it would be good have that info in one spot

[garth11]

euphilia glabrescens and seriatopora hystrix no problem...

[bluwtr]

Xenia really takes a wallop from it, and my Goniopora was definitely irritatted, but all of my other corals; soft, zoas, LPS and SPS could have cared less. Same held true for my RBTA's.

 

Update on my tank. I will be doing a second dip within the next few days. Some of the rock that I treated didn't have complete die off and has some "fuzzy" spots that need a second shot. Not sure if I will dip or just pour some onto the rock. That seemed to work the best for me. I will update again soon.

[fishrme]

i had used the hydrogen peroxide in my tank ..i use the food grade hydorgen peroxide it is a 35% ..but you have to dilute it down at a 16 parts rodi to 1part hydrogen peroxide which makes it slighly less than a 3% hydrogen peroxide ..i use this in myswimming pool instead of chlorine ...i can stress how awesome that is in a swimming pool ...but the food grade is in its purest form ...very clean with no additives ..i had put in in too strong in my biocube the first time i used it ...i had read about it but didnt re-read before i used it in my tank ...but the fish did not die from the consitrated dose that i used ...it slightly stressed some of the coral ...i have a xenia type stuff that didnt like it ..it killed it back but i think its going to come back ..and the coral banded shrimp didnt like that dose ..i havent seen him again ..but all my other emarald crabs and corals are doing fine ..they bounced back exceptionally well ..so in the proper strenght it should be awesome ..i am now using it in my 70 gallon tank in the proper ratio ...trying it on the corals and the fish ..i had a powder blue tang that got stressed and got ick or something on it ...i think it passed it to the other fish ...so im checking this out on the other fish and corals in this tank ..my xenia in this tank it looking very happy and alll the other corals too ..i think this is going to work on the fish too ..the green hair algae and the red slime in the biocube are totally gone ..so im loving that ...i took my water to be tested and it was perfect and i had no nitrates ...so that is awesome ...the lfs was impressed with the readings ..so i think im on to something ..i had done alot of research on the peroxide for my swimming pool ...it is very healthy for you ...you have to dilute the food grade ..the water when i backwash my pool is actually healthy for plants ..it oxygenates the soil and it is used by farmers to kill fungus in the soil ...used in the proper dose ..i stress to use it in the proper dose i dont think will kill anything in your tank but the algae hair and the red slime ..and all the other corals in th tank are looking awesome and doing really good ..the zoas are bright and going to town ..i have a duncan ,green brain ,frogspawn mushrooms,cany cane,acan and others

 

This post has been edited by fishrme: Yesterday, 09:10 AM

Edited October 16, 2011 by fishrme

[keithqueef]

Google algae turf scrubber problem solved naturally

[BLoCkCliMbeR]

Google algae turf scrubber problem solved naturally

 

 

then google fire hazard and home owners insurance

Edited October 16, 2011 by BLoCkCliMbeR