Nebthet's 20L pygmy clown tank: Euphyllia Forest and Juvi clowns 2b readded

[irondragon013]

That LED setup is kind of insane for a 20L. Are you going to test par #'s on it? I'm thinking of running 2 par LED bulbs on my eventual 40B along with my 4 bulb TEK fixture. Should make for some decent shimmer and spotlight the SPS.

[nebthet]

Remember.. I only run three bulbs at any one time.. never all five bulbs at once. Not right now any ways.

 

If I can get my hands on a par meter, I would test the par#s, but doubt that would happen any time soon.

 

Actually it is recommended for most 20L to run 3-4 par30/38 bulbs if you want full coverage.

With only three bulbs going at once, I get shadows on the ends of the tank.

 

As for your 40breeder, if you wanted to go all par leds, you could do 4-5 par bulbs. Take a look at Imisky's thread.. he used five on his tank and it is similar in length to a 40breeder.

[irondragon013]

I'm more or less looking to supplement my 36 inch T5's. The par bulbs seem to be about as easy as it gets to do so. Thanks for the info though. I almost went with 3 par bulbs for my 20L but got the T5's instead.

[nebthet]

No problem.. and you never know.. if you upgrade in the future you have another option to go with.

[james.tsai]

Man I wish my 20L was like yours! Those Acans are awesome! I have an AI SOL SUPER Blue that is about ready to ship. I know its probably WAY overkill but I can't help myself. I guess its the addict in me or something... think I will like it? I know I need to keep it super low for a long time and maybe even only at 30% permanently... what do you think?

 

Btw, I replied to your question about my substrate - Carib Sea live argonite, Indo-Pacific I think, or some other volcanic rock... chunky yes but I like it!

[doppelganger]

That LED setup is kind of insane for a 20L. Are you going to test par #'s on it? I'm thinking of running 2 par LED bulbs on my eventual 40B along with my 4 bulb TEK fixture. Should make for some decent shimmer and spotlight the SPS.

 

As for your 40breeder, if you wanted to go all par leds, you could do 4-5 par bulbs. Take a look at Imisky's thread.. he used five on his tank and it is similar in length to a 40breeder.

 

evil also runs a 40B and uses 5 par lamps. If I recall he said they were older gen lamps as well so they're not quite as powerful as his current par38's

[nebthet]

Well tragedy is striking my tank all at once it seems.. Flatworms, the really really tiny ones that don't seem to be attacking any corals and 3 much larger pink that came on my new frogspawn that seemed to get passed by dips.

 

Also, the Tangora goby died last night of Ich... and both my little clowns have major ich... it looks like someone plopped them in powdered salt.

 

So, I used FW Exit today, at about 5pm.. had to use 24 drops per instructions as there was no noticeable die off. States to monitor tank conditions for 6 hours.

After about an hour, when I noticed some flatworms were dying, I put in a new chemipure pack.

 

My clowns while a little active and eating, have been going to the surface (at least it looks to me) to breath.. not sure, so I got a wood air stone (never uused) and my air pump out and put it in the one chamber of the AC Mini I put on the back of the tank with some phosguard in it to put extra oxygen in the water if that is part of the issue.

 

At six hours, or possibly sooner, I am going to be doing a water change.

 

Now, when I went through my freshwater stuff, I found a bottle of coppersafe with a little bit left in it.. possible a teaspoon or two.

I know, because of the corals and stuff I cannot put it in this tank, but, should I move the small clowns over to a hospital tank and keep them there or do a concentrated half hour dip and move them back to the tank..

 

Obviously, no more adding fish to the 20L for a long while until the life cycle of the ich dies out, but what do you think.. I have pretty much run out of power outlets in my apartment, and even with an extension cord, I have to watch how much I plug in because I share the same circuit breaker as my neighbours and our apartments are all interconnected.

[animalmaster6]

Very sorry about all the troubles

[nebthet]

I am gonna do the best that I can do to save the clowns.. they are my main worry and it seems the air bubbler is helping.. I am also going to up there feeding to only mysis with a touch of garlic in it with a little vitamin c.

Gonna do a large water change tonight too.

 

So I have my fingers crossed.

[Wilioli]

im so sorry to hear! But it seems like you've got things under control..?

[nebthet]

I am hoping.. I am heating up water in my salt mixing bucket for that tank and am going to use it as a hospital tank right now.. I have the Mardel coppersafe, and put in about1.5-2g of water and once that is heat up I am putting the clowns in there.

 

The interesting thing is that the clowns are constantly looking for food.

[Wilioli]

they've turned into zombies....!

[nebthet]

LOL... as long as they are not trying to eat each other's brains.. but it is the only good sign in a bad sign all over situation.

 

I have them over in the bucket now.. they were easy to catch. Now they stay there for the next month or so. Joy oh Joy.. I am just hoping they pull through.. they are the only reason why I put this tank together and it would if they died.

 

I am using the copper treatment.. I am gonna go to the pet store and get some more tomorrow.. the amount I have left will only last me a couple of days or so, at least I think... I am going to have to research the stuff more because the directions on the bottle stated 4ml would do 5 gallons for a month, and you are suppose to add 4ml to every 5 gal for treatment, so I added in about 2.5ml for the amount of water I putin the bucket and added the air stone, just in case.

[nebthet]

UPDATE:

 

Did some research on a few websites in regards to ich treatments and Coppersafe use.. it led me to a picture that looked like my little clowns except there were no white patches really. Yeah.. you guessed it.. it led me to looking into Brooklynella which looks like a very bad case of ich with whitish or pale patches on the fish. This is also called Clownfish disease as they are rather susceptible to it.

 

My fish.. looked like this fish:

 

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3671583

 

I have had these fish for nearly two years.. new tank.. with a new fish in it introduced before them.. the Tangora Goby, which died over night last night. Hmm.. it states that Brook in tank bred fish can only come from a course in the ocean. Have you put two and two together yet? Yeah mine own fault really.

 

Why am I determining the issue to be more of a case of Brooklynella that ich? Upon research, it states in a bad case that a fresh water dip will cause the brook cysts to fall off of the fish, thus improving the fishes chances of survival, even though it can be extremely stressful.

 

A) Freshwater dip

In freshwater the parasite drops off the skin of the fish very rapidly. However, if the fish are simply returned to the tank where the outbreak occurred then they will just become re-infected. For this treatment to be effective (like all the dip treatments discussed in this article) the fish should be kept in a quarantine tank and the main display tank kept fish free for 8 to 12 weeks. Once in the quarantine tank the treatment should be repeated on days 1, 2, 3, 5, 7 & 11 followed by 4 to 6 weeks of observation in a quarantine tank.

 

As these parasites breach the skin as they feed on the fish the skins integument is broken and the fish’s osmoregulatory potential is hugely reduced. This is exacerbated in freshwater so remember that a heavily infected fish could easily become physiologically stressed with this treatment method.

 

One of the most important things about a freshwater dip is that it will buy you some time to start another treatment or to set up a quarantine tank as even a very badly infected fish can lose most of its parasite in a few minutes and improve quite dramatically.

 

To carry out a freshwater dip:

 

1. Take some freshwater (RO is best) and heat it up to the same temperature as the tank: I find the best thing is to float a plastic ice cream tub full of freshwater in the tank until the temperature equalises.

2. Adjust the pH of the freshwater to match the tank using a commercial pH buffer.

3. Catch the fish and pop it into the freshwater bath, watch the fish carefully and be prepared to remove it if it becomes very distressed. Normally 3 minutes in a freshwater bath will dislodge most parasites; this can be extended to five minutes. I would not leave the fish any longer than five minutes in a freshwater bath.

4. Catch the fish and put it back into the tank. Do not pour the freshwater back in the tank as this may introduce the parasites back into the display tank.

 

NB A freshwater dip is a pretty stressful process and is not advisable for very delicate or very ill fish.

http://www.ultimatereef.com/articles/brooklynella/

 

So, I found another small bucket.. love them big popcorn buckets from the movies.. never thought I would ever find a use for that, but soooo glad I never threw it out.

 

Put RO water in.. heated it up to temp. Put Omen in.... he spazzed out at first and it was kind of like watching the scene from the Abyss when the main character breathes in that oxygenated water and his whole body panics. After a moment, the fish settled down and actually relaxed and swam around a little. I counted 60secs in my head three times to make up 3+ min, but less than 5min. Then put him back in quaranteen.

Repeated with Runt.

 

Omen, I noticed immediate improvement, since prior to the freshwater dip he was swimming half on his side and doing short darts and breathing heavily. Bad sign.

 

Now, after dip, he is swimming more upright, controlled, and when my hand gets near the water to check the temp of my walmart spare submersible thermometer, he actually swims to the bottom of the bucket. Additionally, when I go to check on him after leaving the bucket lid on for a while, he still swims upright and is much more responsive.

 

So, to the pet store I go tomorrow to get some more coppersafe and some formalin. I will do the dips in formalin for now since it is so toxic, and have the coppersafe on hand in case it is just ich, but wow, does it ever pay to be prepared and at least with the research and info available I have a chance, even if a small one to save my fish.

 

 

- On another note, that I forgot to mention earlier, for both of my tanks, I am going to begin dosing Zeofood 7, with Amino Acids

[Wilioli]

wait i can't put two and two together... the tangora started it?

 

and wtf is going on?!?! wow, ur doin good tho, good for you on spotting brooklynella.. jeez... abbys was a great movie on a still related note... I make the silly jokes cause I really do believe you're fine, and doing well.

 

And zeofood and amino.. im using the nano pack.. watch ur kh..!!!

[nebthet]

Yeah.. the Tangora goby was the first in the tank... it came from Sea U Marine and was the first to get the white dots and it died in the night yestarday, very rapidly.

 

The clowns got the white spots after the Tangora did, so I can only assume the Tangora was the carrier, because these little fishies never had it when they were in my display tank.

 

Yeah.. am feeding zeofood7, which has amino acids in it.. not feeding additional amino acids, but I am only going to feed the tank with it once a week.

 

I am still not sure if it is Brook or not, but I am going to treat for it just to make sure.

Both clowns were alive when I woke up about an hour ago.. I need to do a water change of the bucket water as it is starting to get cloudy now.. but the larger clown has learned if he swims at the air bubbler/fizzer, it must feel good on the skin.

[irondragon013]

Good luck with your clownfish. I hope they pull through.

[nebthet]

Thanks for the luck.. I think I may need it.. going to go pick up some formalin or quick cure and more coppersafe today.

[squirrelieygrrrl]

oh no neb,

 

just a thought, im of the opinion that over medication can only lead to more stress. which can definitely exacerbate the problem. ive used no-ich with great success in the past. not nearly as hard on things as standard meds. granted i keep this stuff on hand so i can catch it early and i dont have to catch any fish causing further stress. just a little suggestion so you can take preventative measures before it turns into a full blown infection if there is a next time.

 

your fish have a much more advanced infection than what ive ever dealt with. so it sure looks like your taking the right measures. poor little buggers, good luck to them and you! got my fingers crossed for ya.

[nebthet]

Hi Squirrelie..

 

Well me little clowns seem to be doing good in the quaranteen tank. I have been using a product called RID-ICH on them which is made with both Formalin and Methalyne Blue which are used to treat brooklynosis, velvet and ich as well as a couple of other things.

 

It has been a week now since I started using the product and the spots on the fish are slowly going away. I think I definitely got to them just in time. They have a few more spots on them, but not nearly the number they had and after another week or so of treatment they should be fine.

 

I have them in the bucket with an wooden air diffuser to circulate the water and keep it oxygenated since Formalin depletes the water of oxygen.

 

On a good note, my little guys are eating like big piggies.. Ever time I lift the lid on the bucket to check on them, they are right at the top looking or food, so I have been feeding them twice a day, since the instructions on the med bottle states 25% water change every day then add another full dose.

 

Additionally, with them being in quaranteen, this let me do a good dose of Flatworm Exit on my tank. The first use, having followed the instructions, did nothing for ridding the flatworms. In fact, it seemed to promote breeding season or something because the day afterward I had hundreds if not thousands of tiny itsy bitsy little half pinhead sized aceol flatworms on my glass everywhere. The ones on my hammer frag though had shrunk.

 

Therefore, I decided to double my dose for the second treatment. Actually, I went over double the dose and put in 40 drops the FWE into the tank. There was definitely flatworm death then. No more big pink flatworms on the hammer, and almost all the teeny tiny ones were eradicated. The additional amount of FWE in the water column didn't bother the corals or the hermit crabs what so ever.

 

So the lack of updates has been me concentrating on getting my little clowns back into health. The interesting thing is, is that this is causing Omen to develop more black pigmentation to her skin now and I am interested to see if the full black indeed comes in. It is getting that gross grey hue under the skin you see in all Onyx clowns before the black appears.

[irondragon013]

I was wondering how things were going for you. I'm glad to hear good news.

[Wilioli]

make sure you put links to each of these instructional posts on ur first post/page -- these is good stuff! im learning A LOT! good job btw..

[animalmaster6]

Awesome, glad to hear!

[nebthet]

It has been about a month since I last updated this thread with pics of the tank etc. I have added a few more coral frags and what not.

 

The juvi clowns are still in the hospital tank and are recovering nicely.

Here are some pics of them on 04-04-2011. Runt has a big belly after being a huge piggy and eating most of the flake food. Their appetites have tripled since being in treatment and I feed them as much as I can without affecting water quality too much.

Omen has darkened a little bit which is interesting. He isn't as dark as these pics suggest, but it depends on the lighting he is under whether he seems darker or lighter.

 

I have decided to forgo putting an anemone in this tank and instead have decided to stick with different euphyllia species as they seem to really love the led lighting. Hammers, frogspawn, torches etc.

 

I have also decided to add a mandarin after it was suggested I should try one because of the abundant pod population in my tank. There was hundreds of them visible while lights were on, and more so when lights were off. So here she is. She is a little shy right now, but is going around and eating and sticking to one side of the tank right now. I am going to get tiger pods to repopulate, and I do have my larger tank if I am finding I cannot keep the population up in this tank, so I can move her over to that one.

 

I added in some zoas to see how they do under leds and for the extra color pop, especially the reds.

 

The other corals I have had in there are doing great. I moved the Purple tipped digi and affixed it to a rock where it can continue to grow. The red digis continue to grow slowly as well. Xenia is happy, as are the acans. I moved the gsp to the top of the tank on a rock with lots of branching in it to see how it would grow. It looks interesting up there now. And the Green Monti has really grown since being in this tank, though day time colors are not as vibrant as the mother colony in the larger tank. Oh and the green bottlebrush has really encrusted onto the plug. Who says corals can't grow under leds?

 

 

 

 

Current Front Tank Shot 04-18-2011

 

I also have about 15 mangrove pods starting to grow in this tank as well that you might be able to see the bottom of the pods in the front tank shot.. Once the red roots start they will add a nice contrast to the black. I will be amazed if they all grow out, and if they do, thank god they are slow growers. LOL.

[Weetabix7]

Very glad to hear of the improvements.

Those Clowns are beautiful, hope they make a full recovery.