LED Aesthetics: What do you really think of your color?

[land_lubber]

Huge difference in your LEDs and his XML

The whites are are much much much more efficient so they are going to produce alot more light for less thats why hes got the number of Royal Blue. Otherwise he would be something like 24-30 whites and 24 RB if he was using the whites you mentioned.

 

So he should land around 14-15K.

 

Thats why I asked if it was a aquastyle one I'm pretty happy with mine anyway but if I had the money I would def go with Cree.

[CarrillXXP]

I don't think that's necessarily true Blaster, it's that LED's are so damn expensive or at least to buy a good product it is, and when everything is set up the color combination still isn't what someone expected or the growth is "eh". A lot of the full spectrum stuff is nice but no reputable company has started spitting out fixtures or kits that we can play with. (The trend is now catching on though.) Not everyone has the time to invest in there own DIY so they go back to T5 or Halide where they were used to getting great growth and color.

[blasterman]

For the 1000x time, the color issue is because virtually all commercial LED fixtures use the same royal and cool-white combination because they are too busy stealing designs from each other. Not very hard taking a product that's designed to light parking lots and saying it will work with corals, and in most respect the commercial fixtures work fine for this.

 

What really ticks me off is halide runners will typically research a bulb change like they are solving a homicide on NCIS, but will throw any vanilla LED commercial fixture over their tank and gripe when the color is weak. 6months of this thread has otherwise covered more territory than halides have since their inception over reef tanks.

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

I don't think that's necessarily true Blaster, it's that LED's are so damn expensive or at least to buy a good product it is, and when everything is set up the color combination still isn't what someone expected or the growth is "eh". A lot of the full spectrum stuff is nice but no reputable company has started spitting out fixtures or kits that we can play with. (The trend is now catching on though.) Not everyone has the time to invest in there own DIY so they go back to T5 or Halide where they were used to getting great growth and color.

 

you do realize that the commercial guys basically follow what we do here. What we find here, 6 months later a company uses it in their fixtures. We introduced 495nm to the scene in November. Im expecting by around June/July you will see a fixture by a company promoting the next "big thing" that "they came up with". If you want to be ahead of the game, ground breaking, innovative, coolest kid on the block, then DIY is the only way to get there until. We will figure it all out and then everyone just copies what we find in this thread and we are back to cookie cutting.

[CarrillXXP]

Hehe, didn't mean to make you go gray but I know what you mean. I agree with you completely but honestly I don't even know how to make a DIY. There are so many options etc, that I'd rather just go with a PAR 30 or AI Nano. I think Dave is the only one that is constantly integrating what's griped about in this thread. Everyone else seems months behind.

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

Hehe, didn't mean to make you go gray but I know what you mean. I agree with you completely but honestly I don't even know how to make a DIY. There are so many options etc, that I'd rather just go with a PAR 30 or AI Nano. I think Dave is the only one that is constantly integrating what's griped about in this thread. Everyone else seems months behind.

 

Yup you have it right on the money.

 

Dave is putting some pre built fixtures together using the info everyone is finding on this thread (and his own research), hes the only "pre built" that I think is comparable to any of the DIY being done right now. The issue the companies are running into (which dave also is probably experiencing) is things are changing too quickly for him to make changes. He probably is able to make the changes easier than Ecotech or AI because he doesnt have huge stocks like them. DIY guys just swap a LED or two out if they want to adjust their fixtures.

 

Im bias though, so take what I say with a grain of salt! DIY LED is probably easier than building a reef tank IMO.

[CarrillXXP]

Maybe one of these day's I'll try a DIY but they just look so... not clean. lol

[Veng]

Maybe one of these day's I'll try a DIY but they just look so... not clean. lol

 

DIY fixtures are as clean or as dirty as you make them, just like DIY anything. Some of the most impressive stands, tanks, lights, and other things I've seen have been DIY. Then again, some of the ugliest, nasty, trashy, stands, tanks, lights, and other things I've seen have been DIY.

 

It's really important to know your own limitaions and what you are comfortable with. If you aren't a perfectionist at your DIY, but you don't care, that's fine. If you are a perfectionist, you'll need to be a perfectionist with your DIY as well if you want that ulra clean look.

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

snip

[Deckoz2302]

Hey guys, how many here feel they can see a difference when they added TV (420nm) leds to their tank? Im looking to add more color, but have a feeling that the TV wont be noticeable up against a bunch of RB leds. Anyone got their TV on a separate string that they can turn on and off for comparison?

 

Im considering removing some CW in favor of NW and then adding some more RB (or maybe CB?)

 

Ive got 12RB and 9CW. Ive got the CW dimmed down to nearly nothing since there are so many...I want more color, but without losing the 20k look. If TV DOES add a noticeable effect, then I could replace CW for NW and TV.

 

Matt

 

 

hmmm random....leds

 

White

 

White + royal Blue

 

White + royal Blue + Violet

 

White + royal Blue + Violet + blue

 

White + royal Blue + Violet + blue + red + turqquoise + uv

 

Everything except white

 

Everything w/ XML at 100% w/60 degree optics

 

 

Errrrrp

[jfarabaugh]

Wait until you see what we have in store for the month of April. DIY fixtures from LEDGroupBuy are going to be un-recognizable from "manufactured" fixtures.

 

I am very excited to see what you have coming....I wish you would tease us with pictures or info though.....I dont do well with waiting with no info

[Ryan110484]

has anyone tried a fixture with removing whites from the equation? Just use RB DR and Turquoise to make up the white or would that not create enough par/too difficult to blend?

[Genj]

you do realize that the commercial guys basically follow what we do here. What we find here, 6 months later a company uses it in their fixtures. We introduced 495nm to the scene in November. Im expecting by around June/July you will see a fixture by a company promoting the next "big thing" that "they came up with". If you want to be ahead of the game, ground breaking, innovative, coolest kid on the block, then DIY is the only way to get there until. We will figure it all out and then everyone just copies what we find in this thread and we are back to cookie cutting.

 

cough cough... Radion.. cough cough....

 

BTW, blaster, my new tank has 2x Radion and a 250 MH! OHOHOHOHOHO... yeah.

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

I am very excited to see what you have coming....I wish you would tease us with pictures or info though.....I dont do well with waiting with no info

 

Darn you and quoting me before I removed the post.

 

has anyone tried a fixture with removing whites from the equation? Just use RB DR and Turquoise to make up the white or would that not create enough par/too difficult to blend?

 

I havent seen anyone do this, I would like to know what the long term effects are of doing this. It would be interesting to see. 455nm and 660nm "should" provide the growth needed but it may not. For instance, you need a mix of food to live helathy (all the food groups) even though protein is a big part of making you strong. So a corals protein is 455nm and 660nm. But the Cool/Neutral whites peak the 455nma and also have a bit in the other wavelengths.

[Veng]

snip

This might make me wake up and buy one tbh. Especially if they are 3-up friendly.

[Deckoz2302]

I can run that test for two weeks if you need a Guinea pig milad

 

Except I'd keep violet and UV on

 

So if you want I can do a two week run of Royal blue. Ultra violet. True violet

Deep red. And turquoise and turn off my blues and whites

 

More then likely will see a negative reaction though.

[Mr Pants]

455nm and 660nm "should" provide the growth needed but it may not. For instance, you need a mix of food to live helathy (all the food groups) even though protein is a big part of making you strong. So a corals protein is 455nm and 660nm. But the Cool/Neutral whites peak the 455nma and also have a bit in the other wavelengths.

 

Sorry to butt in and contradict. I've been following this thread for awhile and you guys are awesome. Remember corals are animals. The photosynthetic corals have symbiotic algae called dinoflagellates living inside their cells that perform photosynthesis for the coral. When talking about wavelengths and photosynthesis you are mostly talking about the absorption spectrum of the chlorophyll molecule. Chlorophyll molecules are pretty good at absorbing light between 400 and 500nm (purple-blue)and 625 and 680nm (orangey red) and not so good at absorbing light between 500 and 600nm (green).

 

But like plants dinoflagellates also have a whole bunch of accessory photopigments whose job it is to absorb light of different wavelengths and funnel the excited electrons into chlorophyll. Many of the accessory photopigments absorb energy in wavelengths chlorophyll isn't very good at. This helps fill out that 500-600 range a bit. This is why in the fall when the chlorophyll breaks down you see the other colors (from other photopigments) in tree leaves. Chlorophyll is still accounting for most energy though.

 

No matter what wavelength of light was used to excite the electrons in the end its all just excited electrons. No source of light any better than the other, other than in its ability to be absorbed by the photopigments. Basically more wavelengths will mean more energy potentially captured by your corals, and some wavelengths are more easily absorbed than others. If you conduct an experiment where you turn off some of the lights all you are doing is reducing the total amount of light. It will give you a good idea about what color that mixture of light produces, but in the end its less energy for the corals so they should grow more slowly. Not really a fair experiment.

[Deckoz2302]

Zooxanthellae is the symbiotic algae

Photons are light

electrons are a charge

 

Photons bounce off of electrons causing them to jump. Electrons can be in more then one plane of space at any given moment same for photons

 

Every photon is different. Photons from a blue light don't equal photons from a red light. So how far electrons Jump depends on if the photon is capable of bouncing off of it

[Mr Pants]

Zooxanthellae = dinoflagellate (Symbiodinium to be specific) and the rest of what you said isn't really relevant in relation to photosynthesis.

[Deckoz2302]

Yep,

 

And sure the photon - electron thing applies, The "Excited electrons" are statically charged from the vibration of the photon bounce/collision. The gravity of that determines the vibrance/charge.

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

Sorry to butt in and contradict. I've been following this thread for awhile and you guys are awesome. Remember corals are animals. The photosynthetic corals have symbiotic algae called dinoflagellates living inside their cells that perform photosynthesis for the coral. When talking about wavelengths and photosynthesis you are mostly talking about the absorption spectrum of the chlorophyll molecule. Chlorophyll molecules are pretty good at absorbing light between 400 and 500nm (purple-blue)and 625 and 680nm (orangey red) and not so good at absorbing light between 500 and 600nm (green).

 

But like plants dinoflagellates also have a whole bunch of accessory photopigments whose job it is to absorb light of different wavelengths and funnel the excited electrons into chlorophyll. Many of the accessory photopigments absorb energy in wavelengths chlorophyll isn't very good at. This helps fill out that 500-600 range a bit. This is why in the fall when the chlorophyll breaks down you see the other colors (from other photopigments) in tree leaves. Chlorophyll is still accounting for most energy though.

 

No matter what wavelength of light was used to excite the electrons in the end its all just excited electrons. No source of light any better than the other, other than in its ability to be absorbed by the photopigments. Basically more wavelengths will mean more energy potentially captured by your corals, and some wavelengths are more easily absorbed than others. If you conduct an experiment where you turn off some of the lights all you are doing is reducing the total amount of light. It will give you a good idea about what color that mixture of light produces, but in the end its less energy for the corals so they should grow more slowly. Not really a fair experiment.

 

So what you are saying is any light we reduce is going to reduce the growth so whichever reduces the growth the least is the most un useful?

[basser1]

So what you are saying is any light we reduce is going to reduce the growth so whichever reduces the growth the least is the most un useful?

 

Wha???.....

 

I'm so confused!!

[M@rine_lover]

So what you are saying is any light we reduce is going to reduce the growth so whichever reduces the growth the least is the most un useful?

 

I'm confuse with this statement "so whichever reduces the growth the least is the most un useful"..!

[McJosh13]

Regardless of whether all the wavelengths found in nature are used in photosynthesis it may not be prudent to remove them in case they are being used for some other purpose we are not yet aware of (ex. triggering of some event such as growth, pigment production, etc.)

 

Of course there’s never any harm in experimenting if you’re willing to accept the risks… that is how new discoveries can be made

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

Wha???.....

 

I'm so confused!!

 

 

I'm confuse with this statement "so whichever reduces the growth the least is the most un useful"..!

 

 

What I was getting at is Deckoz2302 cant measure his experiment by seeing which is better, he can just measure the experiment on which is worse by Mr Pants statement. So which ever one turns out to be the worst, is actually the best.