iprayforwaves Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Got any pics??? Man, I can try, but it might be hard to catch it when it "lightnings". Might be better with a video... I had a buddy over who has epilepsy, and he was like "thats really cool, could you shut it off?" OMG! So yeah, keep that in mind... 1 Link to comment
iprayforwaves Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Frankly I'd be happy to build a rig using power clusters or Evil clusters, aka anything using a big Bridgelux topography and put it side by side with a Sol or Radion and watch it mop the floor with either. The wider coverage of the Radion might be a reason for the problems. I've built a couple LED fixtures for retrofitting nanos and more recently, I built a fixture for an algae scrubber with all Red Cree XPs for my clown breeding system. Fantastic growth on the scrubber! +1 Evil But for my Solana (mostly SPS), I chose to try out the SOL. I got a great deal on it and I've gotten good color and growth, my Crocea has never been so fat and happy. This tank had Halides on it before. The one complaint I have is that it made a couple of my scolys change color. The reds on my bleeding apples turned orange. :\ I moved them into another tank and the reds came back under T5. Granted, I could have built a fixture to my specs (usually more cost effective) but the Sol or even the original AI (more natural whites) is a great fixture for people with not-so-great DIY skills who want reliable performance and fine-grained control over their LED lighting via the controller. Plus AI offers an upgrade path for all their fixtures, so it's never obsolete. I like to crank up the blues and watch everything GLOW Link to comment
Milad LEDGroupBuy.com Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 6 months on the dot! http://reefbuilders.com/2012/05/04/full-sp...-ai-vega-color/ cracks me up! These manufacturers sure follow the threads on this site well. Link to comment
siwelk Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I won a gift certificate to MakersLED @ Reefstock. I suppose I should make something now. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Now that I have finally gotten them over a tank, I have to say that my new setup is fantastic. 14x NW Rebel ES 21x RB 440-450nm Rebel ES 7x cool blue BL/Semi?Epi 6x deep red Rebel ES 6x cyan Rebel ES 14x violet Bridgelux Set up in clusters across three heatsinks. No spotlighting, no disco, and color is amazing - easily matching a 14K metal halide with all LEDs at 100% in terms of color, and according to my calculations, spanking one when it comes to PAR and PUR. I should be pushing around double the output of a Radion, with much better color, thanks to the proper reds, cyan, and neutral whites (Radion uses 730nm hyper red, 530nm green, and cool white). Professional pics TBA. My phone can't even focus properly under them. Link to comment
GothBoy Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Now that I have finally gotten them over a tank, I have to say that my new setup is fantastic. 14x NW Rebel ES 21x RB 440-450nm Rebel ES 7x cool blue BL/Semi?Epi 6x deep red Rebel ES 6x cyan Rebel ES 14x violet Bridgelux Set up in clusters across three heatsinks. No spotlighting, no disco, and color is amazing - easily matching a 14K metal halide with all LEDs at 100% in terms of color, and according to my calculations, spanking one when it comes to PAR and PUR. I should be pushing around double the output of a Radion, with much better color, thanks to the proper reds, cyan, and neutral whites (Radion uses 730nm hyper red, 530nm green, and cool white). Professional pics TBA. My phone can't even focus properly under them. Get some pictures up of the light without it being on so I can see how you've clustered them. I'm having trouble with disco from 3up ocean whites ATM. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Get some pictures up of the light without it being on so I can see how you've clustered them. I'm having trouble with disco from 3up ocean whites ATM. http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...t&p=3864144 All LEDs are on 20mm stars, clustered like such: ----RB-CB-RB---- ---V-NW-NW-V--- -----C-RB-DR----- Are all run without optics for now, but they are only 7" above the water line and 24" above the substrate. They will be mounted 20" above the water line and 34" above the substrate on the new tank, and will have 60 degree optics. What optics are on your OCW, and how high are they above the tank? Can you see the individual colors or just really crazy shimmer on the substrate? Link to comment
McJosh13 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 If you are having trouble with disco from your turquoise/deep reds check out the sand diffuser.. will eliminate disco completely. You may still have a little color banding on the hard shadows though Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 If you are having trouble with disco from your turquoise/deep reds check out the sand diffuser.. will eliminate disco completely. You may still have a little color banding on the hard shadows though Gothboy is having issues with the 3up stars that Milad sells, which doesn't make much sense to me. Milad really did his homework on those. Sand diffuser, kinda like the panels under industrial fluorescents? I've got some panels that I had on my old setup, and damn man, NO DISCO at all! This setup will be roughly the same way, I will have a piece of that panel underneath my floating canopy I am making. Will eliminate disco and help keep moisture out. EDIT: Also, my cool blue, red, and cyan all have 2-2.5" between them, and no disco without optics. Link to comment
GothBoy Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 It's that standard optics that come with the cluster (120 degrees IIRC). It's only when the powerhead that disturbs the surface comes on but you can see the colours on the substrate. I've tried it at distances from 3" to about 12". I need a diffuser but like everything else, it's hard to get in the UK. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 It's that standard optics that come with the cluster (120 degrees IIRC). It's only when the powerhead that disturbs the surface comes on but you can see the colours on the substrate. I've tried it at distances from 3" to about 12". I need a diffuser but like everything else, it's hard to get in the UK. Surface agitation is what makes our wonderful shimmer, but too much shimmer is indeed a bad thing in instances like this. You got the OCW with 120 degree optics choice? I'm very surprised that it is giving you disco, then, even with a bunch of surface agitation. I have three MP10s in my 55g, and my return pump is connected to a lily pipe that is, basically, on the surface, so I have crazy amounts of surface agitation and I have good shimmer but no disco of colors, just darker shadows. Does the UK not have a hardware store similar to Home Depot or Lowes here in the US? Link to comment
McJosh13 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 This is the diffusion material I am talking about. I have tested it and found it to only cause a 5% light loss and it works great. http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=296282 Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 This is the diffusion material I am talking about. I have tested it and found it to only cause a 5% light loss and it works great. http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=296282 Interesting. I have a panel of the "prism" stuff. It has very little light loss according to my eyes, but we all know how accurate those are with guessing PAR. Link to comment
GothBoy Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Surface agitation is what makes our wonderful shimmer, but too much shimmer is indeed a bad thing in instances like this. Does the UK not have a hardware store similar to Home Depot or Lowes here in the US? We have them... great if you want to buy something overpriced and useless (like an indoor barbeque) but screwed for most things. I envy you guys when someone says 'oh, just pop down the street to get egg crate'... specialist stuff here from Koi dealers usually. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 We have them... great if you want to buy something overpriced and useless (like an indoor barbeque) but screwed for most things. I envy you guys when someone says 'oh, just pop down the street to get egg crate'... specialist stuff here from Koi dealers usually. Do they stock the covers for fluorescent lighting there? They really should not be that expensive. Link to comment
PinkDamsel Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Now that I have finally gotten them over a tank, I have to say that my new setup is fantastic. ... color is amazing ... Can you be more specific about coral colors under the light and how they changed from the prior light (which was what)? Were there dull corals that brightened up? Any color shifts or new colors that emerged? I'm especially curious about the effect of the Ocean White triad if you can turn them off independently. What difference do they make? Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Can you be more specific about coral colors under the light and how they changed from the prior light (which was what)? Were there dull corals that brightened up? Any color shifts or new colors that emerged? I'm especially curious about the effect of the Ocean White triad if you can turn them off independently. What difference do they make? It is too soon to tell of any color morphs, however, I am seeing a lot of greens in corals that was not present before. I do not use the Ocean Coral White LEDs. I use only Rebels and Rebel ES, except for cool blue and violet which are not available to me yet in Rebels. Rebels are significantly more powerful and heat tolerant than the OCW and their respective singular LEDs. Link to comment
PinkDamsel Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 It is too soon to tell of any color morphs, however, I am seeing a lot of greens in corals that was not present before. Ach! Green I have alot of in my tank. Also orange. I need PINK! and red. I do not use the Ocean Coral White LEDs. What I really meant was what difference do the deep red and turquoise make? Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Ach! Green I have alot of in my tank. Also orange. I need PINK! and red. What I really meant was what difference do the deep red and turquoise make? Deep red is not only for color fluorescence (color "pop"), it is also a pretty big photosynthetic peak. Cyan and turquoise (cyan preferred as it has a wider spectrum) are for almost solely fluorescence. Specifically, they make reds (this includes pink), oranges, greens, and I believe yellows "pop". The addition of violet into the mix will make blues, purples, pinks, greens fluoresce, while also sitting on and around the most significant photosynthetic peak. Link to comment
land_lubber Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Got my other kit the other day and wired up last night and this morning. I must say I love the look of the pink LEDs, its exactly what I was going for of that dawn/dusk colour. I did get a couple of reds as well just in case but haven't added them in but am deciding if I should or not. I don't have the whites going at the moment cause everytime I plug them in they trip the circuit so will have check all my soldering point on my days off. Photos to come. Link to comment
PinkDamsel Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Pop vs. Color-Up, Immediate vs. Delayed Response I’m distinguishing between fluorescent coloration (“pop”) and vivid, saturated (but non-fluorescent) coral color. Fluorescence Reading thru this and other threads it seems like fluorescence is immediate: add the right spectra and suddenly corals are fluorescing. This was my experience when I added a 4RB/1cw led – immediately greens started popping. It makes sense to me that the effect would be instant since the coral is re-emitting the light, but I’m just extrapolating and don’t really understand the mechansim. Q1. Are there times when fluorescence is a delayed reaction or is it always immediate? Vivid Reflected Color People also talk about corals “coloring up” over time w. the right lights. I assume they’re referring to non-fluorescent coloration. The model I have in my head is suntanning: it takes time for the pigmentation to increase and takes time to fade. I haven’t had corals “color up” but I have had them fade! Q2. Had anyone had IMMEDIATE color-ups from light changes? Triggering vs. Viewing Color Q3. Another thing I’m wondering is whether the spectrum that provokes a coral to synthesize a certain pigment (“color-up”) could be DIFFERENT from the light spectrum needed for us to see that color? For example (this is all made up), a coral grows where red light does not penetrate. The blue light that does get to the coral causes it to synthesize a red pigment. If you were to dive down and look at the coral it wouldn’t look red since there aren’t any red wavelengths to reflect at that depth. In order to get a red coral in our tank you would need BOTH the “triggering” wavelength AND the “viewing” wavelength. Is this right or am I even more confused than I thought I was? Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 FluorescenceReading thru this and other threads it seems like fluorescence is immediate: add the right spectra and suddenly corals are fluorescing. This was my experience when I added a 4RB/1cw led – immediately greens started popping. It makes sense to me that the effect would be instant since the coral is re-emitting the light, but I’m just extrapolating and don’t really understand the mechansim. Q1. Are there times when fluorescence is a delayed reaction or is it always immediate? It has always been immediate for me. See below. Vivid Reflected ColorPeople also talk about corals “coloring up” over time w. the right lights. I assume they’re referring to non-fluorescent coloration. The model I have in my head is suntanning: it takes time for the pigmentation to increase and takes time to fade. I haven’t had corals “color up” but I have had them fade! Q2. Had anyone had IMMEDIATE color-ups from light changes? I'd imagine that it would take time for a coral to adjust to the new light source, like when some bleach out a bit when transferred to a new home under a new light, but then color right back up. BUT I had an acan that was gorgeous - red and white banded across the outer rim, and the mouth looked like it had spokes, like a tire, of brilliant green on a bright blue background. One of the prettiest acans I have ever seen. When a few of my SPS began to bleach out, I dimmed my LEDs down to where the sandbed was not getting nearly as much light, and the colors began to fade away over a two/three week period. When I took down my LEDs to replace them with Luxeon Rebels, I placed four 13w 6500k CFL lights in their place. While they provided plenty of PAR for the corals (I have never seen my frogspawn open up as much as it was then), the spectrum was, as you probably guess, awful. The acans were the most affected by it. While they were open and extending feeders in response to food, they had lost most of their color. The one I just described was simply red around the outer rim and the mouth was just a dark blue, almost black. No vibrance or anything, just blah. The CFLs were over the system for about a week before I got fed up waiting to get my new tank set up, and just put the newly redesigned LED array over the tank. The color produced was magnificent, better than any metal halide I have ever seen. The acans looked much better under that light, but they were still not very colorful. Last night, when looking at the tank (new LEDs went up on Sunday night), I noticed that the green pigment has returned to the acan's mouth! While it is not a color morph and simply a returning of a previous color, I felt it should be mentioned. Also, suntanning is a good analogy for it. Triggering vs. Viewing Color Q3. Another thing I’m wondering is whether the spectrum that provokes a coral to synthesize a certain pigment (“color-up”) could be DIFFERENT from the light spectrum needed for us to see that color? For example (this is all made up), a coral grows where red light does not penetrate. The blue light that does get to the coral causes it to synthesize a red pigment. If you were to dive down and look at the coral it wouldn’t look red since there aren’t any red wavelengths to reflect at that depth. In order to get a red coral in our tank you would need BOTH the “triggering” wavelength AND the “viewing” wavelength. Is this right or am I even more confused than I thought I was? Not exactly. Blue wavelengths don't necessarily excite blue pigments, red wavelengths don't necessarily excite red pigments, etc. Link to comment
Mr. Microscope Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Why is this not a sticky yet? Link to comment
cmantis Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Why is this not a sticky yet? I need some critique of my proposed setup: 2x - 630nm 6x - 410-420nm 10x - 450-455nm 17x - 440-445nm 10x - white ????k 10x - white ????k Here is my proposed layout: Here are the whites available to me: W（3000-3500k） W（6000-6500k） W（6500-7000k） W（7000-7500k） W（7500-8000k） W（8000-8500k） W（10000-12000k) W（12000-14000k) W（16000-18000k） I was looking at this chart (and reading every forum thread I can find) for reference: Link to comment
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