LED Aesthetics: What do you really think of your color?

[Zeadon]

Its designed to be side by side with the 3UP we released last year with the XT-E Royal Blue and Neutral White combo

 

So in a 24x24 area you would put 9 of these 3UPs and 4 of the OCW and you have a full spectrum build with only two different stars. Just trying to make it easier to setup a DIY build.

 

The OCW doesn't have the True Violet in it so the extra actinic look would be separate (trying to keep cost down).

 

interesting.

 

would you like to share the price per led with us?

 

and does it have to be neutral white? can it be xte royal blue with cool white?

 

thanks

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

interesting.

 

would you like to share the price per led with us?

 

and does it have to be neutral white? can it be xte royal blue with cool white?

 

thanks

 

Currently only Neutral White. Our Neutral White is a high Kelvin one (4500K). So when it mixes with the strict 455nm XTE Royal Blue its, in my opinion, a brilliant color.

 

the OCW are going to be priced around $7 I think. still working on getting the lowest price.

[McJosh13]

Has anyone seen the datasheet for the Luxeon Rebel ES 5000K LXW8-PW50 series? Looks totally ideal for marine purposes, color temp is perfect to reduce amount of purple but most interesting look at output between 460-500nm compared to Cree neutral whites.

 

Luxeon LXW8-PW50 5000k

Output at 475nm=about 30% of max output

Output at 495nm= about 40% of max output

 

Cree XP-G

Output at 475nm=about 10% of max output

Output at 495nm= about 20% of max output

 

 

Aren't these the wavelengths (470-495nm) that people are specifically trying to add to their tanks to improve overall balance and bring out coral/fish colors? Looks like a much better/more balanced LED!

[Veng]

I'd really want to see both on a spectrometer before I believed the graphs of getting that much on the 480ish.

[McJosh13]

I'd really want to see both on a spectrometer before I believed the graphs of getting that much on the 480ish.

 

I would def like to see a side by side comparison on a spectrometer too, but without having that why do you assume that Luxeon's data sheet is incorrect?

 

Maybe Dave Fason can shed some light on the subject. I believe that he was always saying that he preferred the spectrum of the Rebel ES neutrals to Crees and I believe this is the 5000k Rebel he uses on his 13-up boards from what he has said in this thread about 5 or 6 pages back

 

btw.. I forgot to mention that the CRI for these leds is 80min - 85. Pretty unheard of for a 5000k led

[Veng]

I would def like to see a side by side comparison on a spectrometer too, but without having that why do you assume that Luxeon's data sheet is incorrect?

Because I've read enough data sheets and tested products (non-lighting) to know preformance numbers on data sheets are often bull####.

 

My guess, is you will only get that preformance out of the top bin and it falls of significantly on the non-top binned part. But that's just a wild guess on my part.

[Paleoreef103]

Its designed to be side by side with the 3UP we released last year with the XT-E Royal Blue and Neutral White combo

 

So in a 24x24 area you would put 9 of these 3UPs and 4 of the OCW and you have a full spectrum build with only two different stars. Just trying to make it easier to setup a DIY build.

 

The OCW doesn't have the True Violet in it so the extra actinic look would be separate (trying to keep cost down).

Soooo is it like a 3 up with 1 tq, 1 dr, and 1 rb?

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

Has anyone seen the datasheet for the Luxeon Rebel ES 5000K LXW8-PW50 series? Looks totally ideal for marine purposes, color temp is perfect to reduce amount of purple but most interesting look at output between 460-500nm compared to Cree neutral whites.

 

Luxeon LXW8-PW50 5000k

Output at 475nm=about 30% of max output

Output at 495nm= about 40% of max output

 

Cree XP-G

Output at 475nm=about 10% of max output

Output at 495nm= about 20% of max output

 

 

Aren't these the wavelengths (470-495nm) that people are specifically trying to add to their tanks to improve overall balance and bring out coral/fish colors? Looks like a much better/more balanced LED!

 

 

You gota see where that peak is for the Royal. If its under 450 then your tank is going to have a really purple tint to it.

If you are peaking at 440-445nm you need the 470/495 to balance out the purple tint much more.

 

Soooo is it like a 3 up with 1 tq, 1 dr, and 1 rb?

 

We havent released the contents yet...

[Singlefin]

Looks like my order will be on hold for a little while.

 

Thought I had my colors sorted out.

[DaveFason]

As you can see that is the main reason I stick with Rebel's. The color output and efficiency are ideal. What does help is I can buy exact bins, which helps with the overall color. The 13Up board was designed with everything in mind. In person the color is UNREAL.

 

I just picked up a nice 5N camera and a few nice Nikon lens. I will be shooting a couple videos shortly to show people. Along with some PAR readings.

 

Hope everyone is well, I have wanted to pop in a few times but have been slammed with Nano Box/real job. I'll finally have the new controller finished this week, more 13Ups, fresh water lights and a couple new goodies.

 

-Dave

[basser1]

As you can see that is the main reason I stick with Rebel's. The color output and efficiency are ideal. What does help is I can buy exact bins, which helps with the overall color. The 13Up board was designed with everything in mind. In person the color is UNREAL.

 

I just picked up a nice 5N camera and a few nice Nikon lens. I will be shooting a couple videos shortly to show people. Along with some PAR readings.

 

Hope everyone is well, I have wanted to pop in a few times but have been slammed with Nano Box/real job. I'll finally have the new controller finished this week, more 13Ups, fresh water lights and a couple new goodies.

 

-Dave

 

 

Man..... I can hardly wait!!

[Quantum]

Just how strong are UV's? Can they do damage? I am considering them, but don't know how many to add.

[Milad LEDGroupBuy.com]

Just how strong are UV's? Can they do damage? I am considering them, but don't know how many to add.

 

UV or True violet?

True Violet (which many people on this forum use) should be around the same number as your Neutral White and up to the same number as your Royal Blues.

[McJosh13]

You gota see where that peak is for the Royal. If its under 450 then your tank is going to have a really purple tint to it.

If you are peaking at 440-445nm you need the 470/495 to balance out the purple tint much more.

 

Milad,

Yes the blue peak on the Rebels is offset to what looks like 445nm instead of 450nm but I think you should keep a few things in mind:

 

#1 The 455nm peak from the royal blues will be MUCH stronger since all of their output is at 455nm and there are more of them. The 445nm peak from the 5000k whites will only amount to a small output at that wavelength comparatively.

#2 All the highly acclaimed MH bulbs have some continuous output below 455nm all the way down to 420nm and lower, they don't drop off completely. This combination may actually better simulate the MH bulbs that most people agree look good

 

As you can see that is the main reason I stick with Rebel's. The color output and efficiency are ideal. What does help is I can buy exact bins, which helps with the overall color. The 13Up board was designed with everything in mind. In person the color is UNREAL.

 

-Dave

 

Dave, The more I look at the thought put into your 13-up boards the more I am impressed. You must have put alot of time into studying data sheets and experimenting. They must look awesome, looking forward to seeing some high quality pictures of the results

[blasterman]

Had a chance to chat one on one with Sanjay Joshi at a local reef seminar. Besides being a rabid reefer, having a Ph.D in engineering he's pretty much the end all word when it comes to non biased testing of reef lighting technology. He's been a strong supporter of LED technology from the start, and willing to voice his opinion.

 

His lecture was orientated to bring the beginner up to speed on LED technology and review his tests of various fixtures compared to older lighting technology, He has his own aethestics as well. He let some of this show during his lecture, but he was also trying to be non-biased. When I chatted with him after the his lecture hew was more than happy to let his opinions fly.

 

First, Sanjay is very apethetic towards the DIY industry. He doesn't dismiss it, but prefers to stay in the realm of commercial fixtures. He admits he couldn't solder one of our lights together if he tried.

 

When it came to color though, I thought I was the biggest cool-white trasher in the universe, but I think Sanjay is worse. He's clearly annoyed at the lack of fixtures based on warmer LEDs, finds cool white fixtures 'flat and lifeless' which I assured him we're fixing in the DIY arena. Because of his emphasis on the need for warmer colors he's a big fan and strong proponent of fixtures like the Radion. So, we're not a bunch of crack-heads after all for mesing with all these colors :-)

 

When somebody asked during the lecture about SPS changing colors under LED's his reponse was a hair annoyed, and too the point; "when you put a coral under a different spectrum than their original light source, be it halide, T5., etc., the coral's pigments are going to change because none are their natural light source anyways" ....and ended the conversation. Obviously he's tired of hearing it, and his response was well to the point.

 

We both had caught on to the fact that fixture makers are designing for high PAR and not for coverage, and we both had caught in a big reason for this is to sell more fixtures. I feel the tech is there on the shelf, but again, unles he sees it in a fixture he doesn't seem interested in discussing it. He had obviously had enough of the debates about UV being needed for coral growth because when I mentioned it his response was like asking an Apollo Astronaut if we faked the moon landing. UV maybe for aethestic, but no need for growth - gotcha.

 

Nice to know Sanjay isa a warm freak though. He had some videos of his 500gallon SPS tank in his basemant, and that was incredible.

[Sub]

When you say warmer, did you mean neutral? I thought warm LEDs are really hard to make not look yellow. Did he offset the warm led with 3:1 royal blues?

[McJosh13]

When you say warmer, did you mean neutral? I thought warm LEDs are really hard to make not look yellow. Did he offset the warm led with 3:1 royal blues?

 

He means warmer than cool white (i.e. neutral white)

 

BTW

The radion uses "cool white" leds but I would like to see what the actual color temp is because I'll bet you that their closer to 5000k then to 6500k

[jedimasterben]

He means warmer than cool white (i.e. neutral white)

 

BTW

The radion uses "cool white" leds but I would like to see what the actual color temp is because I'll bet you that their closer to 5000k then to 6500k

They are XP-G cool whites, so they are probably higher than 5000K.

[rc407093]

He means warmer than cool white (i.e. neutral white)

 

BTW

The radion uses "cool white" leds but I would like to see what the actual color temp is because I'll bet you that their closer to 5000k then to 6500k

 

My LFS has 3 of them over a tank. The whites definitely very cool; much more cool than my XP-G Neutral Whites.

[jedimasterben]

I'm incredibly unimpressed with the look of stuff under a Radion. I finally got to see one in person and was really disappointed, my Aquastyle LEDs give off better colors.

 

The software control, though, is impeccable - second to none, IMHO. Still not worth anywhere near $750.

[Veng]

I'm incredibly unimpressed with the look of stuff under a Radion. I finally got to see one in person and was really disappointed, my Aquastyle LEDs give off better colors.

 

The software control, though, is impeccable - second to none, IMHO. Still not worth anywhere near $750.

 

I've seen a sol and a radion side by side over the same tank at a LFS here. The Radion looked like crap next to the sol IMHO. They coverage did not seem uniform at all.

[iprayforwaves]

I've seen a sol and a radion side by side over the same tank at a LFS here. The Radion looked like crap next to the sol IMHO. They coverage did not seem uniform at all.

 

I've never been happier with a light fixture than with my Sol. My SPS grow like crazy and my Hawkins Echinata has developed the most perfect shade of blue.

 

The programming features are a bonus, I love it when it "storms"

[basser1]

I've never been happier with a light fixture than with my Sol. My SPS grow like crazy and my Hawkins Echinata has developed the most perfect shade of blue.

 

The programming features are a bonus, I love it when it "storms"

 

 

Got any pics???

[Genj]

Had a chance to chat one on one with Sanjay Joshi at a local reef seminar. Besides being a rabid reefer, having a Ph.D in engineering he's pretty much the end all word when it comes to non biased testing of reef lighting technology. He's been a strong supporter of LED technology from the start, and willing to voice his opinion.

 

His lecture was orientated to bring the beginner up to speed on LED technology and review his tests of various fixtures compared to older lighting technology, He has his own aethestics as well. He let some of this show during his lecture, but he was also trying to be non-biased. When I chatted with him after the his lecture hew was more than happy to let his opinions fly.

 

First, Sanjay is very apethetic towards the DIY industry. He doesn't dismiss it, but prefers to stay in the realm of commercial fixtures. He admits he couldn't solder one of our lights together if he tried.

 

When it came to color though, I thought I was the biggest cool-white trasher in the universe, but I think Sanjay is worse. He's clearly annoyed at the lack of fixtures based on warmer LEDs, finds cool white fixtures 'flat and lifeless' which I assured him we're fixing in the DIY arena. Because of his emphasis on the need for warmer colors he's a big fan and strong proponent of fixtures like the Radion. So, we're not a bunch of crack-heads after all for mesing with all these colors :-)

 

When somebody asked during the lecture about SPS changing colors under LED's his reponse was a hair annoyed, and too the point; "when you put a coral under a different spectrum than their original light source, be it halide, T5., etc., the coral's pigments are going to change because none are their natural light source anyways" ....and ended the conversation. Obviously he's tired of hearing it, and his response was well to the point.

 

We both had caught on to the fact that fixture makers are designing for high PAR and not for coverage, and we both had caught in a big reason for this is to sell more fixtures. I feel the tech is there on the shelf, but again, unles he sees it in a fixture he doesn't seem interested in discussing it. He had obviously had enough of the debates about UV being needed for coral growth because when I mentioned it his response was like asking an Apollo Astronaut if we faked the moon landing. UV maybe for aethestic, but no need for growth - gotcha.

 

Nice to know Sanjay isa a warm freak though. He had some videos of his 500gallon SPS tank in his basemant, and that was incredible.

 

Glad I came back in here and found this post Blaster. Thanks a bunch!

[blasterman]

Frankly I'd be happy to build a rig using power clusters or Evil clusters, aka anything using a big Bridgelux topography and put it side by side with a Sol or Radion and watch it mop the floor with either.

 

The wider coverage of the Radion might be a reason for the problems.