Polarcollision's Nuvo 24: March FTS

[RollaJase]

I was recently having trouble using the red sea titration testers also, getting inconsistent results and the like. I was almost 100% sure it was something wrong I was doing. The Red Sea youtube channel has some great videos regarding proper use of their test kits.
Alk kit for example:

 

Really helped me nail down consistent results.

[Polarcollision]

I was recently having trouble using the red sea titration testers also, getting inconsistent results and the like. I was almost 100% sure it was something wrong I was doing. The Red Sea youtube channel has some great videos regarding proper use of their test kits.

Alk kit for example:

 

Really helped me nail down consistent results.

 

I've watched all of their test videos just to be sure I'm actually looking for the expected color. I think I'm jut spoiled by how much easier the ELOS test kits were to read. I remembered 'Pink' end point, but I call 'pink' a different color than RedSea and was going too far before Christine set me straight. That, and the same pink color appears different when blue LEDs are on vs the yellow incandescent room bulbs. Ha! It ended up being a good thing to revisit everything Alk because I decided to raise my standard level closer to 9.5-10 from the 8 I was aiming for previously. It should help stabilize circadian pH swings and make smaller alk jumps when I do my 5 gallon water change with RedSea water. Their Alk is 12.3-12.8 if mixed to 1.025 salinity.

 

The Mg++ test kit will give false high readings if there is *any* residue left in the vial. Before I found that out, I was getting results above 1800 Mg, which was clearly impossible. Soaked the vial in vinegar over night and scrubbed it out. Test came back 1400. Much more reasonable.

 

I was bummed to see you didn't get TOTM. While I do love Scorched's tank and colorful SPS, I just think there's a lot more to aspire to in reefing and you've captured that in your tank.

[RollaJase]

I've watched all of their test videos just to be sure I'm actually looking for the expected color. I think I'm jut spoiled by how much easier the ELOS test kits were to read. I remembered 'Pink' end point, but I call 'pink' a different color than RedSea and was going too far before Christine set me straight. That, and the same pink color appears different when blue LEDs are on vs the yellow incandescent room bulbs. Ha! It ended up being a good thing to revisit everything Alk because I decided to raise my standard level closer to 9.5-10 from the 8 I was aiming for previously. It should help stabilize circadian pH swings and make smaller alk jumps when I do my 5 gallon water change with RedSea water. Their Alk is 12.3-12.8 if mixed to 1.025 salinity.

 

The Mg++ test kit will give false high readings if there is *any* residue left in the vial. Before I found that out, I was getting results above 1800 Mg, which was clearly impossible. Soaked the vial in vinegar over night and scrubbed it out. Test came back 1400. Much more reasonable.

 

I was bummed to see you didn't get TOTM. While I do love Scorched's tank and colorful SPS, I just think there's a lot more to aspire to in reefing and you've captured that in your tank.

Getting the hang of these chemical test kits can be tricky. Everyone percives colours differently so ther is always room for error. I take the results as a guide, not a firm result. At the end of the day I can see if there is anything seriously wrong with my tank just by looking at it so if the levels are slightly out it doesn't really concern me too much.

 

Thanks, I appreciate the nomination all the same. I do think Scorched deserved the win, he has been getting nominated for months now and even posted that Christopher Marks asked him numerous times but kept knocking him back as he didn't feel the tank was ready.

[Polarcollision]

I always hear people talk about indicator SPS, but rarely know specifically what they're noticing. Today I ran across this article that lays out a pretty simple road map. Cliff notes.

Color order to build on: Yellow --> green --> blue --> red/pink --> purple

Yellow: highly dependent on low N & PO4. Baseline indicator color

Greens: dose Kent's iron concentrate. Iron fuels algae growth. With yellow color maintained, N/P will be lower and algae controlled. Deficiency if greens are brown or paling. Start by dosing 1 drop/50 g 2x/week. Reduce if yellow color has green shimmer or if algae grow. Overdose is darkening of tissue. Stop and do water change.

Blues, some purples: potassium iodide (lugol's solution) not just potassium. Dose when blue is less intense. Stop dosing when yellow acros develop green shimmer. Iodide helps with tip burn.

Red/pink, some purple: potassium (not potassium iodide). Use montiporas as indicator coral. Dose when slower growth, washed out, greyish. Stys & Pocs color is light or pinks turn light brown. Acros lose color and get lighter and pale. Major deficiency when tissue is lost, starting from base opposed to patchy/spotty loss. Overdose=burnt tips (white, no polyps)

Purples: 1) water clarity (carbon, filter socks) increase sponges/benthos life. Zeo sponge power. Water clarity affects tips, but not base. 2) 420-440 nm. 3) iodide and potassium, make sure greens are green and yellows yellow. Blue should be bright. Iodide helps with tip burn.

 

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The strawberry shortcake is the closest thing to yellow and it's holding true. Greens are less vivid so I dosed 0.1 mL of RedSea iron supplement for the week. Blues have definitely faded over time, but most likely due to alk drop a few weeks ago. Added 1 drop lugol's solution for the week. Also lost pink color on pocis after alk drop, so added 0.5 mL of RedSea potassium solution. Added 0.05 mL of RedSea trace element for red colors. Also added 5 drops of brightwell's KoralKolor. This should be added daily, so likely really diluted product. Otherwise I'd be worried about overdosing.

 

Reef chili added 3x/week for organic nutrition.

 

I'll try this for a few weeks and if color doesn't pop back it's time for the miracle Pohl's Xtra.

[RollaJase]

Interesting read, I'll have to look into it further.

[Polarcollision]

collecting natural techniques for clean water in a highly fed tank... At some point it would be fantastic to keep pipefish, seahorses, and NPS gorgs. If anyone still reads this thread , I'd love to hear any other ideas you have!

 

1) clams: lots of them clean water to SPS levels

2) macroalgae: phosphate export

3) sponges

4) feather worms

5) xenia/clove polyps/GSP

 

automated culture/feeding of phyto and brine shrimp (tropical and temperate)

1. fish food feeder drops brine shrimp eggs into hatchery

2. pump doses brine into tank. Aqualifter? other? can't crush BBS with peristaltic BRS doser.

3. Another doser drips water from tank into hatchery. Maybe water change water for phyto nutrients?

4. Seeded with phyto, lights and tank water drip should keep phyto culture going.

5. if hatchery is in back chamber, water will keep it the right temp.

 

http://seahorse.com/shop/Banded-Pipe-Fish.html

 

 

cold water: hatchery needs to be in the cold water. Instead of refrigerator, maybe in a back chamber like a fuge. No filters so pink heart hydroids can reproduce

[Polarcollision]

July FTS

 

Tank is 9 months old now.

 

Frags are growing despite my efforts to do them in this last month or so. I forgot to fill the 2-part reservoir before we left on vacation. When we got back, it was empty and alk dropped to 4.8 dKH. Of course I panicked. Raised it back to 8 in a day and really pissed off a bunch of acros. Luckily most bounced back a week or so later. The 3 pocilloporas have still not colored back up, though they're growing well.

It got me thinking about keeping the water more stable overall. The tank gets 8.25 mL morning and night, which ends up causing a little over 1 dKH swing each time. So, I dug out the reefkeeper instruction book to change the multi-timer function. I wanted to split the 2 single boluses into 6, spaced 4 hours apart. With all timers set the same, it should have dosed 2.875 mL 6 times a day. Lesson number two this month: don't trust the multi-timer. Instead of dosing 6 times a day, the repeated portion of the timer never triggered. So the tank was getting 1/3 the dose it should have gotten. > If I had continued to test it would have been obvious right away. But since I was busy with other things and trusted the timer, alk dropped AGAIN to 5 dKH. This time I lost all but 1/4 inch of my mini Joe the Coral colony, my itty bitty hawkins echinata, almost the garf bonsai and a few others that were never quite right after the chemiclean disaster.



 

Other sad news: The new two little female flasher wrasses and the yellow watchman did not survive 3 days. They were all a little beat up and shipping was just too much for them. Vivid Aquariums honored their guarantee and reshipped at no charge. This time I received two juvenile male flasher wrasses instead of the females ordered, which immediately attacked one another. The smaller one had most of it's tail chewed off so I bought a breeder box hospital and nursed it back to health. The other juvenile male McCoskers now has a new owner. Unfortunately, the injured baby wrasse didn't survive once it was out in the tank. The weird thing is that each of those fish has completely disappeared. No sign of a body anywhere. I guess something has eaten them, but you can see the sand has an outbreak now. To get it under control, I've upped phosban and skimming.

The little hydroids are still staking their territory, preventing zoas from growing as quickly. Hope they burn out sooner than later.

In positive news, I've just started dosing Acropower after seeing it in action in a friend's tank. In just 4 days I'm already noticing a slight increase in acro colors.

Anyways, a little bit of a setback this update, but things are back on track and getting better.

 

 

The new watchman is not very yellow. I hear that means it is a she.

 

Took a few photos under blues through sunglasses. They're a bit blurry through the plastic, but the colors are as intense as in person. Watermelon chalice

 

Bubblegum Monster chalice

 

 

Rastas and Tangerine morph

 

Pinwheel micro zoas

Red Planet

 

Nuclear greens

 

Bird of Paradise

 

BBEB

 

Rastas/Pink Zipper

 

Branching cyphaestra

 

Space Monsters -- what happened to the pink??

 

Forget the name--pink hippo?

 

 

Pipe organ

[Felicia]

So sorry to hear that the two replacement wrasses didn't make it. Did you get your money back from Vivid since they sent males instead of females? So did you lose your original flasher wrasse too? I don't see him in your FTS.

 

That YWG definitely looks like a female. Her pale yellow/cream color is actually super pretty, I think LOVE all the coral shots! Just gorgeous!

[Polarcollision]

So sorry to hear that the two replacement wrasses didn't make it. Did you get your money back from Vivid since they sent males instead of females? So did you lose your original flasher wrasse too? I don't see him in your FTS.

 

That YWG definitely looks like a female. Her pale yellow/cream color is actually super pretty, I think LOVE all the coral shots! Just gorgeous!

 

He's still with me - he's even more timid now and hides at every little thing. This time it was the camera lens close to the tank. I just kinda gave up on getting a refund since they shipped for free. Plus I sold the one baby male at cost so I'm out the price of one fish. The touchy part in this is that Tim was really attached to the hospital fish. It was touch and go for a few days and then a lot of care during the 2+ weeks it's tail grew back. He feels too guilty shipping fish from the ocean just for them to die, especially with the high mortality rates of shipping. So I'm not sure if/when there will be any others. If so, I really like the leopard wrasse you found.

[Felicia]

Oh ok. Well I'm glad you're not out too much money on them! That's too bad your flasher is so shy. Mine is really outgoing and I think its because the other fish are all so brave but not aggressive. Do you think yours could be scared of the tang or something?

 

Yeah I always feel so bad about losing fish from shipping too! Which is why I rarely order them online. Not your fault though! Leopards are awesome but keep in mind they are AWFUL shippers.

[RollaJase]

Those macro shots are fantastic. Tank is looking really good, nice work.

[Polarcollision]

Oh ok. Well I'm glad you're not out too much money on them! That's too bad your flasher is so shy. Mine is really outgoing and I think its because the other fish are all so brave but not aggressive. Do you think yours could be scared of the tang or something?

 

Yeah I always feel so bad about losing fish from shipping too! Which is why I rarely order them online. Not your fault though! Leopards are awesome but keep in mind they are AWFUL shippers.

 

He was out a lot more when I had the tang. Probably because there were other fish to school with. It's funny how so many of these fish don't swim in the open. The clowns stay in their duncan. I forget I have a PJ cardinal sometimes because it lives in the corner behind the duncan. And of course the watchman hangs out in it's cave most of the time. So that makes the tailspot blenny the McCosker's only swimming buddy.

 

There's a really good LFS about an hour away. They deal primarily with sustainable fisheries and have a very low loss rate. They got 4 leopard wrasses in last week. Just need Tim to get over losing the baby fish... I wonder if I can add 2-3 more fish since nutrients were under control and no one really swims in the column. I was thinking a purple or helfrichi dartfish, the leopard, and a blue mandarin

 

Those macro shots are fantastic. Tank is looking really good, nice work.

 

Thanks man! It's been a while since I got the bellows out. Figured it was due.

[markalot]

Nice update! Love the photos. That's a big green bird in the upper left, correct?

[Polarcollision]

Nice update! Love the photos. That's a big green bird in the upper left, correct?

That IS a big green bird! One of my favorite SPS. Just love the teal coloring and growth patterns. When I got it, it was a little 2" nub. Now it's grown to a flatish disk around 6"x3". Can't believe how fast it has grown! It is mostly responsible for the high alk use in this aquarium and is providing a good challenge to maintaining stable water levels. LOL

 

Because it's so dense, very little light makes it's way below the coral. I was thinking it would be a good place to plant low light corals. :-)

[Addinali]

Beautiful tank.

[gena]

It looks soooooo good!!!

 

Is that a ribbon gorg in the center of the cloves? Looks awesome!!!!

[TeamIM24]

I am going to have to try the photo through the sunglasses and see if that ups my photo quality!

[NanoTopia]

Space Monsters -- what happened to the pink??

 

 

[Polarcollision]

So this just happened

 

 

Cheers to natural filtration!

[Polarcollision]

Beautiful tank.

 

It looks soooooo good!!!

 

Is that a ribbon gorg in the center of the cloves? Looks awesome!!!!

It is! All my invasive softies are on the center pillar with the ribbon gorg. I was eying a yellow non photosynthetic gorg today, but not sure where to put it.

 

I am going to have to try the photo through the sunglasses and see if that ups my photo quality!

While you're at it, watch your tank with sunglasses. Colors pop like crazy. If you like they way the filter works, Lee, Hoya and a few others make glass blue filters that won't compromise image quality.

 

 

[Polarcollision]

Balanced ratios of calcium and alkalinity from Randy Holmes-Farley:

 

Ca (ppm) -- Alkalinity (meq/L / dKH)

390 -- 1.5

400 -- 2.0 / 5.6 dKH

410 -- 2.5 / 7.0 dKH (seawater)

420 -- 3.0 / 8.4 dKH

424 -- 3.21 / 9.0 dKH

428 -- 3.39 / 9.5 dKH

430 -- 3.5 / 9.8 dKH <------ my targets

435 -- 3.75 / 10.5 dKH

440 -- 4.0 / 11.2 dKH

450 -- 4.5

460 -- 5.0

600 -- 12 (possible CaCO3/CO2 Reactor Effluent)

 

According to the ESV web site, the two part system B-ionic has a balance of 19.3 ppm calcium per 1 meq/L of alkalinity. That value is probably a fine balance for the calcium and alkalinity ions given the effects of magnesium (1-4% of Ca replaced by Mg in matrix) and strontium (1 Str ion per 100 Ca ions) incorporation.

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How Ca and Alk become stony coral skeleton

Starting from the atmosphere and working down:

A. CO₂ + H₂O → H₂CO₃ Carbon dioxide in atmosphere/bio reactions combine with water. (increased CO2=decreased pH)

B. H₂CO₃ HCO₃⁻ + H⁺ Carbonic acid easily splits apart into hydrogen and bicarbonate. (increased hydrogen = decreased pH).

C. HCO₃⁻CO₃²⁻ + H⁺ Carbonate ions (CO₃²-) combine with hydrogen ions to produce bicarbonate ions.

D. CO₃²- + HCO₃⁻ + H⁺ + Ca⁺⁺ taken into coral which expels H+ and creates CaCO₃ Carbonate ions and calcium ions = calcium carbonate.

As acidity increases (pH drops), carbonate ions decrease. This reduces stony coral calcification rates.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

pH

• concentration of hydrogen (H+) to hydroxide (OH-) ions

• affected primarily by alkalinity and Mg levels

• generally varies from 7.9-8.4 in a saltwater aquarium.
• pH increases as oxygen levels increase.
• pH decreases as carbon dioxide levels increase.
• Some Calcium and Alkalinity additives like Kalkwasser increase pH.
• Some Alkalinity additives, like Sodium Carbonate increase pH.
• Some Alkalinity additives, like Sodium Bicarbonate lower pH.
• pH increases cause calcium levels to decrease.

• decreases with increased biological breakdown

• decreases with increased water temps

• increases with respiration (pH usually lower at night)

Calcium

• required for LPS/SPS/clams/coraline growth.

• below 360 mg/L may cause a decrease in coral growth

• If calcium rises disproportionately to alkalinity, it can cause a sudden drop in alkalinity and cause the calcium to precipitate into the water, creating a snow flake effect.
• As Calcium increases, Alkalinity slightly decreases.
• dose balanced 2-partin equal amounts

Alkalinity

• Ability to buffer the pH-lowering effect of acids via carbonates and bicarbonates.

• meq/L x 2.8 = ___ dKH
• As Alkalinity increases, Calcium slightly decreases.
• Calcium carbonate precipitate consumes calcium and alkalinity in a 1:1 ratio. 1 meq/L (2.8 dKH) per 20 ppm calcium

• Both low and high alkalinity levels can cause precipitation of calcium. Low alkalinity causes precipitation in the water, while high alkalinity causes precipitation on heat sources like heaters and powerhead impellers

Magnesium

• increases buffering capacity of saltwater against pH-lowering effects

• reduces rate of calcium precipitation in water. Helps maintain balanced Ca & Alk
• NSW aprox. 1280/420 Ca. Levels above 1350 ppm not recommended by RHF

• Low magnesium may contribute to nuisance algae growth

• Generally magnesium is a free ion, with only water molecules attached to it.

• Proper levels of Magnesium stabilizes carbonate and allows it to be present in far higher concentrations. Free Mg ions act as a buffer in the pH range of 8.0-8.5. This ion pairing w/Mg also keeps seawater pH from getting too high and reduces diurnal pH (daily) swings.

[Polarcollision]

Picked up a Hanna low-range phosphate test kit on Sunday.

 

0.09 ppm PO4

 

So nice to have an actual number instead of guessing at a very pale colored test result.

 

I'll slowly lower it to 0.03-0.05 ppm as soon as coral recover completely from the alk swings. Since Alk and Ca are being maintained at a moderately high level, I'm also experimenting with keeping nitrates between 5-8 ppm to support bacterial growth which SPS feed on, which then promotes SPS tissue growth. My hunch is that zoas and other mixed reef corals will continue to thrive and SPS will take on vibrant, but deeper colors.

[NanoTopia]

Deborah,

 

Can you find an article that explains why keeping alkalinity and calcium above NSW levels is beneficial to corals?

 

Just because you have an actual number to look at, does it make it more accurate?

[markalot]

Great timing posting the Alk Ca balance and buffering information. I've got high co2 in the house and having a time keeping PH up at night. I would rather run my Alk closer to seawater levels but right now I'm targeting 8.5. I wonder if increased Mag will also help buffer the PH?

[Polarcollision]

Great timing posting the Alk Ca balance and buffering information. I've got high co2 in the house and having a time keeping PH up at night. I would rather run my Alk closer to seawater levels but right now I'm targeting 8.5. I wonder if increased Mag will also help buffer the PH?

You may already do this, but the first thought I had was to maybe dose during the night instead of daytimes to balance out the swing.

 

Something to look in to: Our local reefing forum has been experimenting with hydrogen peroxide to raise/stabilize pH. They're finding that a small dose of H2O2 adds oxygen to balance the higher biomolecules released at night. The simple part is the extra oxygen binds with hydrogens in the lower pH water to create more water and increased pH (though it's more complex with biomolecules in the mix and I haven't wrapped my head around ORP completely).

 

I was surprised to learn more detail Mg has a notable influence on pH and buffering. If you dose, that can go in at night also to offset the biological swings. Mostly Mg supports Ca and Alk to be in solution at levels that would result in precipitation in it's absence--making ions for calcification more readily available to stony coral. Everything I read in the last few days supports Mg around 1330-1350. IIRC Mg balanced to Ca would be 3:1 respectively. RHF says NSW has 1280 ppm Mg for 420 pp Ca so I wouldn't personally go lower than that. He also says that Mg stabilizes bicarbonate and carbonate ions. So again, more available for growth. I believe this is the logic behind the higher recommendation above. Seawater composition has apparently changed over time, the abilities of corals to calcify is apparently higher than what NSW supports--though there is the upper limit of course. My understanding is the upper and lower limits of the coral is highlighted in teal above. Any higher levels don't really do much to promote growth and is entering potential territory for burned tips from Ca and loss of pigment, etc from high alk. Mg++ is mostly found tightly bound to water so it's not a very active ion in solution. The largest active ionic portion--10%--is bound to sulfate - yet another good thing for our sand beds/coral health. :-) RHF doesn't call out percentages of Mg++ as other ionic bonds (with bicarbonate, carbonate, OH, etc) except to say that they are much lower that 10% each. These other ions Mg binds with are in the pH equations above, essentially stabilizing pH in 8.0-8.5 range. I believe this is the rationale behind the 1330-1350 recommendation: it takes 100 ions for at least 10(+) to be active with other ions that in turn influence pH stability. Anyways, one thread throughout all my reasearch that is becoming very clear is that the ideal ionic concentrations are present when pH is closer to 8.1-8.3. I like knowing WHY those numbers are recommended. :-)

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/10/chemistry

 

This ended up dovetailing into answering Christine... I chose to raise my alk and ca toward the higher end of the range for 4 reasons. 1) Higher alk will do a better job buffering pH swings, from things like absorbed CO2, organic reactions, etc--which may apply to Mark's situation. 2) If the reaction in point C above is influenced by a lower pKA it will move to the left, in which there is less carbonate ion in the water available for calcification and more HCO3. Stony growth slows when carbonate is not available at levels ideal for calcification. My tank responded as expected - that blue bird grew like wildfire when I raised alk to ~9 dKH and daily pH swings leveled out. 3) RSCP salt has ridiculously high alk and ca levels for my application when mixed to salinity: 12.3 alk and 460 ca. Every time I do a water change (bimonthly) I get spikes so I'm maintaining higher levels until the two buckets I bought on sale run out and I can switch brands to something intended to compliment stability with 2-part dosing. 4) since biological reactions use up oxygen (which increases pH) and increases CO2 (decreasing pH) my nutrient rich reef needs more buffering capabilities, etc than an ULNS. This works for me - I get more personal satisfaction feeding a ton of food (manja manja!) and having a mixed reef with high export than meticulously monitor and dosing an SPS-geared ULNS. Just preference, not judgment. Zeovit SPS reefs are truly stunning. Just a different method that works.

Deborah,

 

Can you find an article that explains why keeping alkalinity and calcium above NSW levels is beneficial to corals?

 

Just because you have an actual number to look at, does it make it more accurate?

Ha Ha. I'm familiar with your PO4 investigations. I've given up the notion of ever knowing exactly what my water levels are. I'm just happy to have a better estimate than the ELOS test kit could provide. I'm really good at detecting color differences, but I had a heck of a time with that one test in particular. Hanna can narrow it down from ELOS's 10ths (useless, except to confirm PO4 is not sky high) to 100ths for me--even with inherent error.

 

I kinda answered you and Mark together above for my rationale. I've looked at so many links that began with the question: what EXACTLY does it mean to have balanced levels? It would just be easier to send my browser history...But my data is all from trusted sources like RHF. Now if I misunderstood... that's another story. :-)