This should offend everyone. An email from DT's Phytoplantkon co.

[Xavier]

[insert pulp of the beaten horse here]

[Crakeur]

um, gilligan, that wasn't an employee, it was the owner of the company and the horse is dead so we can stop beating it.

[OscarBeast]

GilliganFx, you don't really have any idea what you are talking about nor do you even know what people are mad about. Go back and read everything and maybe if your reading comprehension is up to par, you might get it. If not, don't worry about it. If you can't keep up, you might not want to post.

 

LOL Crackeur! Gilligan is just another individual that didn't bother to read before posting. That is why he thought it was just another employee that typed that email.

 

Anyway, we complained, he admitted he was wrong and sorry. End of story.

[Seth]

So what other products are there other than DT?

[LiQuiD]

Here's something off topic. I have heard from 2 people in this thread about "coral spawning", or lack there of, in a small tank. As far as I was concerned, I can't think of a coral off the top of my head that doesn't a-sexually just reproduce on it's own, especially regardless of tank size. I throw a stalk or two out of xenia bi-weekly, zoo's double monthly, shrooms starting to pop up everywhere, and this is in a 2.5 gallon. I mean, you can "spawn" coral in a freak'n shot glass if you wanted to. Am I the only one who is confused about the "you can't reproduce coral in a small tank" thing? Basically, Niven, by the end of your post it would seem that you do not have a reef tank yourself or would never have said "corals could not be bred in smaller tanks". Either you have no idea what you are talking about or you are one of the only people on the planet with a tank full of "sexually" reproducing coral and not a single propogational coral that can do it on its own. I mean, now we are up to 2 reefers talking about the "spawning" of corals, I give up.

 

As stated before that no one seems to understand, also, is regardless newbie or advanced, paid $1000 for the tank or got it for free from a friend, the statement that has us all outraged was that according to the experts, nano's are a joke. A few have tried to make that clear. Bla bla bla superior product, bla bla bla newbie, bla bla bla LFS ripping off, none of that matters. A reply is needed stating that .

 

I was originally angry by what was said and was one of the first to read the original post. I was tempted to send a mail as you all did but after much thought, decided against due to the fact that I was sure he would be receiving so much junk I would just be added to the "another idiot nano reefer" emails. If it was a well thought out response and we all contributed to it and added or took away what we would have like to have said, I would have gladly signed my name to it as sort of a petition. This was not the case and the guy is being attacked from every angle. We don't know what others are writing and I would assume some letters were not very diplomatic, I mean the guy is stating things about fears of being shot, someone has obviously sent some emails that I would not like to be a part of. I'm not preaching here, I just feel this has gotten a little out of control. I, as all of us have, say stupid things at times, we do not know everything and often do quote the "experts". However, I would hate to say one bad or mistaken thing and have a revolt against my business or income because of it. If you are going to send emails, simply invite him here to debate the issue at hand. Emails sent can be edited and posted here, as could his responses, this really gets us nowhere. The man is old school and mis-informed. He himself has now stated that he is starting to think from all we have said "why should I care anymore". This should not be the case, the man needs to be informed, we need to get him here and let him see our ways. I mean I would like to get him into nano's so he can start selling nano sized bottles of the product for nano-reefers. Seriously, nothing good will come from the efforts if we just bash the hell out of him.

[OscarBeast]

LiQuiD, yea, you are a little confused. There is a difference between "spawning (sexual)" and asexual reproduction.

 

Everyone has stuff grow like mad and spread. We frag stuff all the time. Our corals do reproduce. Many of my softies get out of hand if not cut back or thinned.

 

On the other hand, sexual reproduction of corals and clams rarely produces offspring that survive, even if you are lucky enough to get them to spawn. Most of it is consumed and/or filtered out in its planktonic stages or it simply dies from lack of a viable food source.

[LiQuiD]

LiQuiD, yea, you are a little confused. There is a difference between "spawning (sexual)" and asexual reproduction

Thats not what I'm confused about (considering I brought up the asexual vs. sexual thing). This was what Nive said

I'm not sure as I've not researched nanos, but I don't think many of the organisms that you keep in your nanos are able to grow to mature size and reproduce. Yes, I know, Clowns and/or gobies can be bred in smaller tanks, but not corals or clams. So in that sense, I guess nanos could be considered a joke

The statement was that corals can't reproduce in small tanks. Even if we are going the "sexually" reproducing, how many "sexually" reproducing corals do you or anyone else here keep in their tanks that are not a-sexual reproducers. The confusion lies in that everycoral I own, as for most reefers, reproduces on their own asexually or with a little propogating help to speed it up. So witch sexually reproducing corals that we can't reproduce in our nanos are you guys talking about?

 

I don't dispute that clams sexually reproduce, I have had several of mine over time spew out some nasty clouds of sexual bliss into my waters for hours at a time. If there was another clam next to the spewing one, the may have reproduced but that was never the case. Again, the confusion lies in the sexual corals and the statement that corals can't reproduce in smaller tanks. Besides, my clams spewed in small tanks and large, they don't have eyes and don't know the size of the tank they are in, if they want to try and reproduce, they will spew, regardless if 1 gallon or 1000 and the same would go for coral, that is if I had any sexually.

 

On another note, I have had a torch coral in a nano that was attacked and due to its fear of death and natural instinct to reproduce, spewed out spores for babies. I ended up with like 40 baby Torch corals. I understand this form of reproduction as well. However, this is not sexual reproduction which needs 2 to tango if you know what I'm saying.

 

I'm not confused with what asexual vs. sexual is, just have never had sexualy reproducing corals.

[OscarBeast]

Thats not what I'm confused about (considering I brought up the asexual vs. sexual thing). This was what Nive said

 

Actually he brought up sexual reproduction. Since that is what I thought he was addressing the rest of the time since he mentioned it before in the same sentence.

 

on a side note, if you talk to many of the "experts", if you want to call them that, in the hobby, success in reefkeeping is not just survival, it's getting an organism to grow to mature size and then sexually reproduce...

 

I believe he was only talking about sexual reproduction. Since I thought this, that was the only thing I addressed when I replied.

 

Most people don't have corals that reproduce sexually, and if they do, the offspring doesn't usually survive. This has nothing to do with tank size, which is what I was talking about in my reply.

[LiQuiD]

I still have yet to see a sexually reproducing coral.

[OscarBeast]

Type in "coral sexual reproduction" or "coral spawning" into a search engine and prepare to be amazed.

 

It doesn't happen a lot in tanks because it is usually directly related to moon phases and the tides.

[Spudds]

Implying that some corals are male and some are female? What parts differ?

 

Spudds.

[OscarBeast]

No, most are both.

[LiQuiD]

Hence, asexual, enough already, got male phyto?

[cmoreash]

corals do have sexual reproduction. They release gametes which fertilize, become larvae, then eventually settle down. Like plants for example (and dont argue that, i know not all are) Would you really say a tree is male or female? They have sexual reproduction.

[Spudds]

Asexuality does not imply that an organism has both sets of reproductive organs. It implies that the organism can reproduce alone.

 

Spudds.

[OscarBeast]

No, LiQuiD, hence they are hermaphrodites. LOL

[LiQuiD]

I have a transvestite mushroom.

[OscarBeast]

lol

[Dave ESPI]

some of you are a fu*king tard - ed.

 

seriously.

[GilliganFx]

OscarBeast: You are correct in assuming that I did not read every single post on this 5-page madness; but I did read enough to make the point in my post which you obviously missed (given that I skipped the fact that he was the owner; not that I neccessarily think that the validity of a product should be determined by one opinion even by the owner). Is it that you were somewhat offended by my post because you responded to this guy with an immature letter yourself (no I'm not going back through all the posts to check). My point in over-generalizing was to bring attention to the fact that many people did not help the debate of nano-reef keeping with their uncivilized and unthoughtful rebutals to the owner (got it right this time). No I don't think his comments in calling nano-reefs a joke were correct, but I do not feel that he needs to offer an apology because he had a view that differs from yours and mine.. a much better route for an owner would be to say that "a better choice for a begginer would be a tank with more water volume; hence greater water stability".. Well big deal he didn't, he instead made an accusation to a single individual that Nano-reefs were a joke (To him they were; the question was directed specifically towards him; he has the right to answer in any which way he saw fit.. instead of you whining about it, maybe a thoughtful and well-supported response as to why they are not a joke would be justified).. Many of the responses he recieved I'm sure only better justified his claims of nano-reefs, or at least the hobbyist that keep them. So good job in interpreting my post, dumbass.

 

(and no I still haven't read every post.. and yes I saw that many DID have reply's to him above a 6th grade level)

[Dave ESPI]

GilliganFx Came out of the closet to say:

(given that I skipped the fact that he was the owner; not ............BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH IGNORANCE AND LACK OF INFORMATION.........(no I'm not going back through all the posts to check).  My point in over-generalizing was to bring attention to the fact that many people did not help the debate of nano-reef keeping with their uncivilized and unthoughtful rebutals to the owner BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH OMG I DONT FU*KING READ ANYTHING NOR DO I REPLY WITH ANY SKILL.......(got it right this time).  No I don't think his comments in calling nano-reefs a joke were correct, but I do not feel that he needs to offer an apology because he had a view that differs from yours and mine..  a much better route  So good job in interpreting my post, dumbass. BALH BLAH BLAH BUT I DIDN"T BOTHER TO READ YER REPLIES, SO HOW TEH HELL DO I KNOW WTF I AM SAYING........... BLAH BLAH BLAH.....

(and no I still haven't read every post.. and yes I saw that many DID have reply's to him above a 6th grade level)

 

PS: SHUT UP.......

 

From me... hey dousche,...... WELCOME TO THE FORUMS..... WHER YOU BEEN FER THE PAST UMPTEEN MONTHS?

 

Oh and.....

 

 

yer drooling.... get a bib

[OscarBeast]

My email is clearly posted in this thread and was far from immature. And yes, if he said that he believed that nano-reefs were a joke, it would be a valid personal opinion. However this is not what he said. Secondly you didn't bother to address the fact that he said that nano-reefs do not work. This is factually not true which is why I suppose you danced around addressing this.

 

You might also note that I am mature enough to make substantial arguments without the use of foul or vulgar language. I find it odd that you are unable to do the same. Perhaps you think that name-calling actually offends people. This is fairly sad if this is the only way you can support your argument.

 

instead of you whining about it, maybe a thoughtful and well-supported response as to why they are not a joke would be justified

Again, this was done in my email which was clearly posted. I guess it was something else that you didn’t bother to read.

 

Have a nice day.

[Acoustic]

Wow this thred went out of control! I can't believe my little post started all of this. Anyhow, I just wanted to address one thing:

 

I realise that my initial email to DT was misleading and made me sound like a reeftard. But that is exactly my point. Even reeftards deserve respect as a customer. NOT BELITTLEMENT AND CRITISIZM. He should have just provided me with a straight answer such as: (1) 1ml per gallon per day or (2) Sorry I have to little information about your tank so I cannot answer your question.

 

But, The reason I posted the email from DT was ONLY to point out the views of DT on our hobby. Everything else that has happened since is your own individual reponsibilities.

 

>insert legal disclaimer here<

[Brianc_4]

PLEASE LET THIS POST END!!!

 

simple equation

 

misunderstanding+poor choice of words= apology+ hate mail

 

I've read this post in its painfully long entirety.

Now lets get back to the discussion of nano reefs and take what little good came from this huge post that only rivals the word association threads in size. lets put up some new posts. Perhaps subjects that were touched on here "corals sexual vs asexual reproduction and sp that are capable" or "reproduction of clams" or "phytoplankton in a reef, its role, benefits, and different ways to introduce"

Chris show a little mercy, and please close this beast of a post

[Dave ESPI]

to summarize.....

Tl;Dr ....