This should offend everyone. An email from DT's Phytoplantkon co.

[Acoustic]

Ok...I asked a guy from DT to tell me how much I should feed my 5 gallon reef and how often. By the way the offensive part is on the last paragraph of the letter if you don't want to read all of it. Here's the response I got:

 

Hi George,

There is no stupid question but I have to question the knowable of anyone in this industry who would suggest a 5 gallon tank with the amount of animals you have. If you are able to feed your clam in that system and keep it healthy plus feed the lips coral that eats larger foods and also provide food for the sps corals, you will never be able to provide an environment to maintain these animals for any significant time. I suggest that you go to www.dtplankton.com and read the articles on clams and also the 2 part article called feeding by design. Once you have a good idea of what it takes to provide a good sand bed and how important it is you can then start learning about lighting and current requirements for these animals. I suggest the book Aquarium Corals by Eric Borneman

ISBN -1-890087-48-3 it is available at some pet shops and also at Amazon.com . One good thing is that you only have the small investment at this time. If you want to do it right you will need to study a bit.

To get to your original question the directions on the bottle of DT's are for any size aquarium, 1 tsp per 15 gallons double for clams( round this off to 1/2 tsp per feeding for your tank). If you want to try to keep your clam alive long enough to get a real reef aquarium set up I would suggest that you start feeding it ASAP.

 

A 5 gallon tank may be sufficient to maintain a small coral best if it were a soft coral polyp such a small group of mushroom polyps. In reality a nano reef tank is considered a joke by anyone who knows anything about reef keeping. They are something that people want, so its made and sold. That does not mean that they really work. One rule of aquarium keeping that is very true for reef tanks is THE LARGER THE SYSTEM -THE BETTER.

 

 

Good luck,

Dennis Tagrin

[Dave ESPI]

fu*k him.

 

his email addy. = Dtagrin@DTPHYTOPLANKTON.com

 

I'd like to BBQ his ass.

 

BIGGER TANKS = MORE $ FOR ME AND MY PRODUCT...HURRR HIRRR HURRRR [insert Drool here:]

 

that of which ONLY has ONE type of phytoplankton in now because the 'tards at the lab couldnt keep the cultures supported...

 

oh and DT's .... NOT reccommended for ANY CORAL tank because 90 % of the corals totaly ignore the crap. It is the OTHER stuff in the tank that needs the DT's.

 

sheesh... waht an asshat.

 

FN' GEEKS UNITE ! lets bomb his email with all out nano tank pictures and say "F-U asshat." as the CC. subject. !

 

geezzzzz......

[Aggie05]

For the first time I agree with Dave.

[Acoustic]

There's a link to the website in the letter.

[LiQuiD]

Let the games begin.

 

Don't forget to add your favorite links of members tanks in the members section (preferably 5 gallon and under but I'm sure all the 7 gallon bows will do nicely). If you add up all the gallons of all our nano's well that's alot of teaspoon fulls that may not be poured.

 

While your at it, post this thread to the other big boards.

[Dave ESPI]

"A 5 gallon tank may be sufficient to maintain a small coral best if it were a soft coral polyp such a small group of mushroom polyps. In reality a nano reef tank is considered a joke by anyone who knows anything about reef keeping. They are something that people want, so its made and sold. That does not mean that they really work. One rule of aquarium keeping that is very true for reef tanks is THE LARGER THE SYSTEM -THE BETTER."

-Dennis Tagrin

 

 

Ummmm... Pardon my lowly reply Sir. Reef God of Asshat,

According to around 12,000 + reefers, you sir are WRONG and arrogant enough to think so. You sell a product that on any scale when proper husbandry, waterquality, and proper lighiting and care is provided, you should show respect for your audiance and potential mass-market. I suggest you do some demographic work and see who is driving this hobby right now. I think you will find NANO TANKS are becoming cutting edge and are proving to be more of an art through skill than simply relying on massive volumes of water and a large environment that cost small fortunes to fill and support.... oh wait.. thats how you make more money isn't it.... WTF d00d.

No matter WHAT the size of a container of water is, you are a salesman for a company and should look at all potential people as clients and not judge based on simply what equates to penis envy over a " Big Glass Box of live corals n' stuff".

 

10 years ago DSB , Powercompact, Phytoplankton, and a crap load of other stuff was considered " A joke"...... I suggest you think long and hard about the future of your interest and market share in the hobby..... and take another look at some magical works many people have done with "Little Glass Boxes" and who is using YOUR Product.

 

ELBOWS DEEP IN SALT WATER< DAVE "ESPI" SHEEDY

 

Ps: my book entitled NANO-REEFING The New Frontier: is being written as we speek here, so perhaps you will be needing a catalog number on THIS book soon d00d.

 

REPLIED

and with pics.

[technoshaman]

Wow what condescension. hit em where it hurts culture your own phyto or buy equally competitive products. He should have taken a gander at this site before just getting on his high horse.

[adinsxq]

Acoustic, in all fairness, I suggest you post the email you originally sent to DT as well as any other exchanges between the two of you.

 

and yes, let the games begin.

[Aggie05]

here is my email

 

Hi, my name is Russell Tucker and I came across an email that you sent to a member on a posting board that I frequent saying that a 5 gallon tank "is considered a joke by anyone who knows anything about reef keeping." Well I happen to disagree with you and you really should catch up on the reefing hobby because nanos have huge success with all sorts of corals. It is sad to think that someone such as yourself who sells a product made for reef tanks is so uninformed about an entire group of reef keepers. I suggest you check out some of the tanks in the link I am giving you and maybe you will learn a thing or two. Maybe next time you won't alienate an entire faction of the reefing community. Have fun selling your product to real reefs. You know, the ones that are big and pretty. Because as we all know, "THE LARGER THE SYSTEM-THE BETTER"

 

here is the link, enjoy

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/members/

[Aggie05]

Damn dave, I feel like i was too nice now

[Dave ESPI]

nah we need some "nice" replies too.....

 

I should be able to get away with "asshat." cause I can back up my words with my ability and given my background and state of occupation le: USING over 14 GALLONS of his green water" concentrate in the past year, not to mention my "infamy"

I had to keep PAR with my persona and lay it out flat and "call it like I see it"

THat reply was as ignorant as any some one could ever say and get flamed for........ I SAY WE LYNCH UM !

 

I haven't filled my quota fer MARCH yet... :woot:

BAWERRRRD YO !

 

EDIT: + 1.5 gallons so far this year.

[loaf]

careful now =)

 

http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs3604/lib/Freed...h/Web.talk.html

 

if that can happen from just posting ###### on a message board, be careful about what you say in an email to the company itself.

[gobies]

Originally posted by technoshaman

culture your own phyto or buy equally competitive products.

Hey Techno -- got a site on phyto culturing? I've got a spare 5g I could use....

 

FWIW: I asked about DTs at the LFS that I mostly-trust, and they said that DTs was down to two types of phyto (this was about a year ago). The guy suggested Kent's Phytoplex. Hey, I know it isn't live, but my flower leather doesn't seem to care. It grows more when I feed it this stuff than when I don't...

[Xavier]

oh bah.. I could culture phyto in my own tank.. I seem to have no problem with my water turning green.. heh heh

[Acoustic]

Here is the original email. All I did was cut and paste so noone thinks I am trying to embelish it or change it or something dishonest. I am a REAL investigator that is just reporting the facts.

[OscarBeast]

Here is my formal reply... I think. At least the first draft.

 

EDIT: Here is the email that I sent out. Notice I was sure to mention Julian Sprungs discussion at MACNA about nano-reefs.

 

Dennis Tagrin,

 

I am writing you in response to an email that you reportedly sent to an individual owning a 5-gallon nano-reef aquarium. While this particular individual seems to have livestock that are questionably viable in a nano, there were several general statements made that disappoint me. Among these are, “In reality a nano reef tank is considered a joke by anyone who knows anything about reef keeping. They are something that people want, so its made and sold. That does not mean that they really work.”

 

Not only do nano reef systems work, but they many times process relatively larger bio-loads than their larger counterparts. The funny thing is that well designed nanos are able to process ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate below detectable levels as well as meet the needs of many types of livestock. There are many individuals that enjoy the challenge of smaller tanks and take them very seriously. While I am sure that there are stores and companies assemble poorly designed systems that are bound to fail; this is true of all size systems. Nano-reefs work and work well when appropriately designed and stocked.

 

Hobbyists that dedicated time, effort, and money into these smaller tanks design them with the purpose of being successful. The reality is that this is a part of the hobby that is becoming increasingly popular with serious hobbyists and “professional” reefers. It is interesting to note that one of the things that Julian Sprung discussed at MACNA was the setup and maintenance of nano-reef aquariums. I suppose that you believe that Julian Sprung doesn’t know anything about reef keeping or believes nano-reefs are “jokes”.

 

You will find that great deals of people with large successful reef systems are enjoying smaller nano reefs as well. It would be a shame to belittle these respectable individuals that spend their hard earned money purchasing your product for their nanos and full size reefs. I know I keep a bottle of DTs sitting in my fridge at all times. Perhaps there will no longer be such a bottle in my fridge in the future, as two of my systems seem to be “jokes”.

[technoshaman]

Originally posted by gobies

Hey Techno -- got a site on phyto culturing? I've got a spare 5g I could use....

 

FWIW: I asked about DTs at the LFS that I mostly-trust, and they said that DTs was down to two types of phyto (this was about a year ago). The guy suggested Kent's Phytoplex. Hey, I know it isn't live, but my flower leather doesn't seem to care. It grows more when I feed it this stuff than when I don't...

 

Salt water, starter culture, sunlight, air bubbles and preferrably CO2. I think nannochloropsis is easy enough to get - check reed mariculture for plankton culturing supplies. Also FlameAngel on reef central had a nice simple 3 stage phyto/rotifer/brine shrimp culturing system set up check it out. If I'm coherent tomorrow I'll dig up some actual links.

 

I have cultured phyto it's not real easy but not real hard either. For me I'd just as soon buy it premade.

[reefphreak]

My nano-reef is probly a joke so that guy is probly right.

[JPF]

I sent my comments to DT's. Amazing that someone with a product to sell would fire back such a condescending email.

[Crakeur]

Email mailed, along with a request for an apology to me and one on these boards. I also cc'd Rod Beuhler (beuhler beuhler - no relation to Ferris I assume) as I feel that everyone at the company should be privy to my wicked words.

 

Regarding loaf's link to the lawsuit article, there is nothing in here that warrants a lawsuit. A sales rep for the company sent an email that was posted. What can the company do? Sue their own sales rep for knocking nano reefs and possibly causing a dip in sales due to a boycott?

[ReefMatrix]

My comments to DT's and hopefully I speak for everyone..

 

Hello. In regards to a recent email you sent to a fellow reefer, I will no longer be purchasing your product. I can only hope the rest of board will follow suite. Your comments were empty and held no research on your part at all. Not only does it make you look like a fool, it makes the company you work for – look even worse.

 

All of use at www.nano-reef.com strive to achieve perfection in our little tanks. Most every tank there is beautiful and more times than not, better than their LARGER counterparts. Perhaps a look at the member’s tank section would open you somewhat closed minded opinions to see that all of us are successful. Here is a link to make it easy for you - http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/forumdispl...hp?s=&forumid=3

 

Nano reefs are in my opinion are a step above larger reefs. Why? Because they require much more discipline, time and planning. Any one can do a big reef, but the question is – can they do a nano? So, next time you decide to make an off the wall remark such as this one:

 

“A 5 gallon tank may be sufficient to maintain a small coral best if it were a soft coral polyp such a small group of mushroom polyps. In reality a nano reef tank is considered a joke by anyone who knows anything about reef keeping. They are something that people want, so its made and sold. That does not mean that they really work. One rule of aquarium keeping that is very true for reef tanks is THE LARGER THE SYSTEM -THE BETTER.”

 

Do a little bit of research so you don’t look like such an ass. I will also reiterate to you again – I WILL NO LONGER BUY YOUR PRODUCT. Next time, think before you speak.

 

Good Day

[Crakeur]

Dave had Tagrin's email wrong so here it is, along with Beuhler's.

 

 

dtagrin@dtplankton.com

rbuehler@dtplankton.com

[Crakeur]

Tagrin's response to the various emails received (apparently he only felt the need to respond to Dave's tirade)

 

 

This message was intended to be sent to the person who originally contacted me concerning nanno tanks. I am also copying the other people who have contacted me with their outrage that I dare to have an opinion that differs with theirs. Maybe I am a bit old fashioned after all I am 50 years old and have been keeping aquariums since the early 1960's.

I am always be willing to talk to someone who has a different opinion then mine. Unlike many people I do not think that I know everything. I was under the impression that you were a beginning reef keeper. With experience an aquarist can have much more success, although I still do not feel that a 5 gallon aquarium can be a proper long lasting environment for the number of animals that you say that you have in it. In fact my partner Rod Buehler also feels that nanno tanks can work for experienced reef keepers if the animals could be moved into a larger environment at they grow.

This is a type of discussion that is good to have on the phone and not via email that way people do not have to guess according to a persons message what their experience is.

By the way concerning your reference to how I make money; I produce a high quality product and do not lie about what is in it, the shelf life or its usefulness. In fact I point out that there is little evidence to support that there is any benefit to most stony corals via direct consumption of phytoplankton. If I wanted to make lots of $$$$$ I would come out with a complete line of watered down chemicals and call them reef additives for every purpose real or made up. This would be a very easy to accomplish except that I actually care about the hobbyist and the animals they are attempting to keep.

Everyone has a right to have a point of view and there is no reason to threaten or insult me.

Please feel free to communicate with me if you can do so with some respect.

Sincerely,

Dennis Tagrin

[OscarBeast]

The problem is that he responded representing the company and made general statements about all nano-reefs.

 

Having an opinion is one thing, ridiculing your customers is quite another.

 

I also just sent him an email. I hope I get a reply. It wasn't rude or anything and I think I made my point very well. Have a read, I edited my original to the version that I sent out.

[Crakeur]

I sent a follow up and cc'd everyone on his mailing list. I want an apology for calling my stupid hobby a joke.

 

 

Dave, I don't think he liked being called an asshat (whatever that is). At least you didn't take the title of Sir Slapnutz away from Presley. That might have angered two people.