The Big Lie: Small Tank is Small Cost

[geekreef_05]

"A nano reef can be setup and successfully maintained for cheap".

 

I propose this is the big lie of millennial reefkeeping. There are too many you tube videos out there selling the lie that a nano reef can be cheap.

 

Frisby is cheap to play outdoors. Stamps are cheap to collect. 

 

But reefkeeping is not low cost, no matter how tiny the tank. 

 

Opinions? 

[TheKleinReef]

cheap isn't a set value.

what's cheap to me isn't cheap to someone else.

 

"minimum cost-effective price" is probably a better term for it.

10 minutes ago, geekreef_05 said:

millennial reefkeeping

also.....

 

lol

[geekreef_05]

Philosophy be damned. 

 

Cheap will be defined as under $100 in value. There. Now its not a variable. Whats cheap to you..is now cheap to me too. Lol 

 

Anything over $100 isnt cheap.

[TheKleinReef]

12 minutes ago, geekreef_05 said:

Anything over $100 isnt cheap.

 

another subjective definition.

too vague imo.

 

i think the issue would be interesting to discuss on how to narrow down the minimum cost-effective price of not only starting one, but also maintaining one. because those numbers are very different things. my maintenance cost is significantly less than the startup cost, but it's ongoing, so eventually it will pass the initial set up cost.

[geekreef_05]

Sure. 

 

Lets set a baseline cost that includes buying and maintaining a nano reef for 10 years. 

 

That would be an honest cost. 

[mitten_reef]

If I kept my original tank - the Marineland Eclipse 12, it could possibly one of the cheapest reef setup (It CERTAINLY was my cheapest).   

 

It was running for about 8 months before I decided I was hooked, and "graduated" to the original IM Nuvo16. 

 

Found the last pic of it - it wasn't much but things were pretty happy in there.  hmm I wonder if I still have that branch-ish looking rock to the right somewhere.  I remembered using it in my last tank.  

[Murphs_Reef]

Christ... I lost (stopped) count after multiple £#,000's. You add the word "reef" to ANY product and it's just gone up in price by 50%. 

 

In the UK I'm not even sure you could buy a return pump for under £100. 

[Nano sapiens]

6 hours ago, geekreef_05 said:

"A nano reef can be setup and successfully maintained for cheap".

 

I propose this is the big lie of millennial reefkeeping...

 

If just one person runs a successful cheap nano (of course there are a lot more than just one), then your proposed statement falls apart 😉

 

What most would call cheap vs. what they would call expensive is directly related to how one believes that they need to run a reef aquarium (nano or otherwise).

 

And I'll just leave it at that...

 

 

[mcarroll]

"Cheap" is certainly relative.  I can set up a tank that costs less than yours, for example, and it's "cheaper".  

 

But I don't think that's your point.

 

People who like boats even say this hobby is expensive when they get into it.

 

I think that's the point you're making. 😉 

[geekreef_05]

Examples. 

 

A Reef Builders video. Click bait line is a "$96 nano reef " 

 

 

 

$146 Nanon Reef...

 

 

$171 (Canadian) Reef

 

 

Do you feel these videos have legit claims? Is this good advice? 

 

They are share a number of glaring problems, if newbies are trying to use this as first simple tank advice 

[demonclownfish]

My first reef was a set up original 12 gallon nanotube with a massive long tentacle anemone, pair of clarkii, and a green brittle that could eat a diver. $120. Frags of all kinds were $5 maybe $10 at most. Mushrooms were something that people had a hard time giving away for free. I miss these days. 

 

Now here I am spending thousands on the latest LED lighting, fancy bluetooth gizmo powerheads, reactors that I can't tell if they make a difference or not, etc 🤣

[demonclownfish]

@geekreef_05
These were certainly the budget reefs of their time. They actually worked well and alot of people used them, I wish I would have bought one when they were still around. Cheap, effective lighting for softies and LPS, and simple. 

 

[geekreef_05]

C'mon now, thats a terrible reef. Lol

[geekreef_05]

29 minutes ago, demonclownfish said:

My first reef was a set up original 12 gallon nanotube with a massive long tentacle anemone, pair of clarkii, and a green brittle that could eat a diver. $120. Frags of all kinds were $5 maybe $10 at most. Mushrooms were something that people had a hard time giving away for free. I miss these days. 

 

Now here I am spending thousands on the latest LED lighting, fancy bluetooth gizmo powerheads, reactors that I can't tell if they make a difference or not, etc 🤣

 

Well a massive long tentacle anemone cost more than your entire historic tank today. 

[geekreef_05]

33 minutes ago, demonclownfish said:

My first reef was a set up original 12 gallon nanotube with a massive long tentacle anemone, pair of clarkii, and a green brittle that could eat a diver. $120. Frags of all kinds were $5 maybe $10 at most. Mushrooms were something that people had a hard time giving away for free. I miss these days. 

 

Now here I am spending thousands on the latest LED lighting, fancy bluetooth gizmo powerheads, reactors that I can't tell if they make a difference or not, etc 🤣

 

And lets be real, there are so mamy hidden costs too. And more costs today, like buying bacterias and amino acids. I used to put phytoplankton in and thats it. 

 

Add up every tiny thing too. From salt and rodi to buckets, hoses and drip lines. Just those items would be more than your entire historic tank cost.

 

Reefing anit cheap. 

 

The youtube videos are misleading.

 

[demonclownfish]

1 hour ago, geekreef_05 said:

C'mon now, thats a terrible reef. Lol

I didn't mean that was a good one, just highlighting the tank haha. I've seen some awesome Tom deco 3 gallons on this site. 

[mitten_reef]

1 hour ago, geekreef_05 said:

C'mon now, thats a terrible reef. Lol

this can get as subjective as the costs discussion.  Especially if cost is the driving factor - and without understanding the owner's goal, it's just a matter of opinion, just like costs. 

 

1 hour ago, geekreef_05 said:

 

And lets be real, there are so mamy hidden costs too. And more costs today, like buying bacterias and amino acids. I used to put phytoplankton in and thats it. 

 

Add up every tiny thing too. From salt and rodi to buckets, hoses and drip lines. Just those items would be more than your entire historic tank cost.

 

Reefing anit cheap. 

 

The youtube videos are misleading.

 

youtubers are doing it to get the views...they start with the most-budget items you could possibly buy off amazon.  they don't care how long it lasts (or its potential for catastrophic failure of the tank itself), as long as it starts up.  Is it a lie/misleading?  Totally agree!  as those equipment is bound to be replaced within 1-2 year if the newbie reefer lasts that long.  But that's the other side of it, most of them won't last long enough to see equipment failed.

 

I think your subject for discussion can be broken down into; upfront costs vs ongoing costs vs stuff-we-buy-that-aren't-truly-necessary-just-to-try-things-out costs.

 

I'd say I regret the last bit the most - as I have shelves full of crap I don't know what to do with.  So let's not go there, lol.

 

My upfront costs are relatively expensive for the system's water volume, cuz I got a fancy rimless system (wife requires aesthetically pleasing system no matter where it is in the house).  So i won't even bother considering that for the discussion.

 

For my ongoing costs, I spend well below 100 a month on average for water (no, I don't make my own RO), supplies, and maybe one or two frags here and there.  Plus a big shopping spree once or twice a year in the 200-300 range (either equipment or a pack of frags).  So on an annual basis, I'm probably looking at about a grand.   

 

 

 

 

[geekreef_05]

Mitten, i appauld you for being the first to provide an annual cost. 

 

Booyah. 

[geekreef_05]

When i see youtube videos about starting a reef for $100, i think to myself the actual start up cost is probably $1500 to $3k for a reliable mixed reef setup. 

 

Then the annual cost is probably $1 to $3k depending on your habits and setup. 

 

The idea that a $150 can be spent and then your crusing off into the sunset is ludacris. 

 

Im glad this thread stirred up some opinions hehe. 

[Snow_Phoenix]

There's another aspect that I think you *might want to consider: location. 

Costs depend on prices (eg. of livestock, equipment etc.), and prices vary from location to location. What is deemed as 'expensive' in one part of the world is 'cheap' in another.

 

Take the Red Sea tanks, for example. It's available in my country, but is quite expensive because it's imported. If you compare the earnings of an average person here vs. affordability, most will bypass Red Sea and pick out a significantly cheaper, local branded (or unbranded tank). Because of the difference in currencies, this cheap tank X is valued even 'cheaper' in the eyes of someone who lives in another part of the world (like US, for example). 

 

So you could technically start a small nano for a very 'cheap' price. As for upkeep, if you skimp on more popular brands for just 'meh' brands, it's actually possible. 

 

I do believe the initial startup cost is significantly smaller than the maintenance cost though. BME, you can still reef on a tight budget though. Just need to know which corners to cut (and not to cut), find opportunities at correct times to purchase things (eg. browse through discount rack for livestock instead of premium rack/invest in purchase of a single fancy polyp, grow it out to a mini colony and trade it in at the LFS to get more corals, purchase on-sale bulk items that are only *needed & not wanted etc.). Most of it is strategy, actually. 

 

I don't really believe it to be a lie in 'millenial reefkeeping'. 

 

But I do understand that there is a lot of misinformation being touted online through various social media channels. Many dive headfirst into the hobby over here, listen to terrible advice, then leave within a span on weeks due to frustration and financial losses incurred from dead livestock. Very few newbies actually cling on to continue learning and adapting. 

'

 

 

[TheKleinReef]

51 minutes ago, geekreef_05 said:

Mitten, i appauld you for being the first to provide an annual cost. 

if you wanted annual cost break downs, you should have asked for ones. instead of whatever your first post was.

 

I could break my first set up I guess.

I'd have to dig deep to find a pic.

 

 

10G AGA: $10

2 bulb 20" T5: can't find it but i know it wasn't more than $100

Biowheel filter: $25

Sand and Rock: $30

Heater: $40

Total: $205

 

Monthly Ongoing costs:

SW and RODI from the LFS: ~$2/gallon (we normally got 10G monthly to always have some on hand, so that'd be $40/month

Foods: <$5

Testing: $30ish. used API at the time.

Electric: dk and too lazy to do math.

 

 

[TheKleinReef]

44 minutes ago, Snow_Phoenix said:

I do believe the initial startup cost is significantly smaller than the maintenance cost though

I think this depends on the time frame and equipment choices. I have had my 75 up for 3 years and I'm not even close to catching the start up cost. But that was due to my equipment choices.

[Reefkid88]

A reef tank can be had cheap. Its all in WHAT equipment you use,I'm cheap. I buy used on certain items (lights,ato's,pumps). 

 

 My tank setup right now:

 

 -Aquamaxx 9g,Ehiem 50w heater,2 bulb t5 light- $40 locally

 

-Light orginially was a Radion G4 XR15,bought it used from a buddy for $240 flipped it for $350+ bought mt Tek 4 bulb T5 from a member here for $100 shipped,used the rest to get multiple bulbs to play with colors and bought some other stuff with the remaining money.

 

 -Dry rock- $15

 -Live rock- $10

 -Sand- $10

 -Sicce .5- $25 shipped (used)

 -Used MP10 (2)- $60 

 

 Then all the other crap like carbon,test kits,media bags,supplments,foods,thermometers,buckets,5g water jug ect ect $221.

 

 Monthy I just spend roughly $5 on distilled water for topping the tank off. 

[Snow_Phoenix]

6 minutes ago, TheKleinReef said:

I think this depends on the time frame and equipment choices. I have had my 75 up for 3 years and I'm not even close to catching the start up cost. But that was due to my equipment choices.

I agree - choices play a key role in costs. We can always choose to start off with the more expensive (and better quality equipment), or start off with less pricier equipment (which will eventually require an upgrade some time down the road & extra expenses since you're now purchasing new things again). Apologies if I'm waffling. It's close to midnight here and I'm too tired. 

[geekreef_05]

So what im hearing is that you can put together a reef that hangs by a thread with like $200. 

 

I thought the same thing in high school. I also drove a car that was held together with strategically placed duct tape. The reef grew. The car got me around. Neither were safe. 

 

Those were just different times, different levels of acceptable risk.  

 

I see things differently now.