Billy's Deep Sandbed Experiment

[seabass]

6 minutes ago, billygoat said:

I have been struggling a bit to maintain proper nutrient levels. NO3 came back at 0 ppm this morning, which explains why the growth of my grasses and Caulerpa seems to have leveled off.

I still don't believe you'll be able to achieve your desired nutrient levels by just feeding (or overfeeding).  If seagrass is still one of your goals, I'd consider adding inorganic nutrients.

[billygoat]

9 minutes ago, seabass said:

I still don't believe you'll be able to achieve your desired nutrient levels by just feeding (or overfeeding).  If seagrass is still one of your goals, I'd consider adding inorganic nutrients.

I agree. At this point it seems pretty clear that feeding alone is not enough to satisfy the needs of all the various plants and algae in here. I'm debating whether I want to buy some nutrient supplements and commit to trying to get the seagrasses more established, or whether I want to transform the tank into a mangrove community instead. Mangroves grow much more slowly and have less demanding nutrient needs, so they might be a good choice to go along with the macroalgae that I am still interested in keeping. I can imagine the tank looking good either way, so I am going to have to think it over for awhile.

[A.m.P]

FWIW N03 and P04 are dirt cheap and concentrated enough to last years.

[sam_the_reefer]

I wonder if adding slow release fertilizers (Nutricote) in the substrate will provide the nutrients needed for the seagrass if they take most of their nutrients from the roots..

[filefishfinatic]

5 minutes ago, xellos88 said:

I wonder if adding slow release fertilizers (Nutricote) in the substrate will provide the nutrients needed for the seagrass if they take most of their nutrients from the roots..

osmocote and things are like ammonia pills and they will die like a spy taking cyanide if a fish eats them 

[Tired]

Well, that's not really an issue with a tank that has no burrowing fish. Just bury the pellets deep enough they won't come back up. People use buried fertilizer in freshwater tanks all the time. 

 

 

[seabass]

Nutrients in the water should suffice.  Just because these plants have actual roots, doesn't mean that they can't uptake nutrients directly from the water (which the roots have constant access to).

[billygoat]

So after thinking this over a bit and reading you folks' advice, I decided on a plan. I am going to bury a single pellet of Osmocote 14-14-14 fertilizer (the one without any additional additives or metals) at the base of each of my seagrass clusters. I'll use tweezers to get the pellets quite a ways down into the sand so that most of the nutrients they release will remain trapped in the substrate. While I agree with @seabass's point that marine plants can uptake nutrients directly from the water, I think that adding liquid fertilizers would inevitably lead to the macroalgae outcompeting the true plants, since algae absorb nutrients from water much more rapidly than plants do. Therefore I will try to give the plants a leg up by adding fertilizer to the substrate, where it will be accessible to the rooted plants but hidden away from the macroalgae. The macroalgae in turn will have first crack at the regular nutrient soup that drifts around up in the water column. This plan will hopefully result in a state where plants and macros can coexist in the same environment, with each getting the nutrients they need from a different primary source.

 

This could end up being a huge disaster for everything in the tank, of course. But it's an experiment! So let's see what happens.

[gena]

10 hours ago, billygoat said:

So after thinking this over a bit and reading you folks' advice, I decided on a plan. I am going to bury a single pellet of Osmocote 14-14-14 fertilizer (the one without any additional additives or metals) at the base of each of my seagrass clusters. I'll use tweezers to get the pellets quite a ways down into the sand so that most of the nutrients they release will remain trapped in the substrate. While I agree with @seabass's point that marine plants can uptake nutrients directly from the water, I think that adding liquid fertilizers would inevitably lead to the macroalgae outcompeting the true plants, since algae absorb nutrients from water much more rapidly than plants do. Therefore I will try to give the plants a leg up by adding fertilizer to the substrate, where it will be accessible to the rooted plants but hidden away from the macroalgae. The macroalgae in turn will have first crack at the regular nutrient soup that drifts around up in the water column. This plan will hopefully result in a state where plants and macros can coexist in the same environment, with each getting the nutrients they need from a different primary source.

 

This could end up being a huge disaster for everything in the tank, of course. But it's an experiment! So let's see what happens.

Cool!  I love experiments!  

[filefishfinatic]

you should get a sand anenome and feed it and use its poop to feed the seagrass 

[M. Tournesol]

Quote

Spiking the substrate with ammonia rich root fertilizers such as osmocote is an easy way to  boost plant growth in planted aquarium. Ammonia in the water column is toxic to both fish (and plants too at higher levels). However, providing it in the substrate is very effective. The key point about osmocote is to not to use too much (such as in gel caps). It provides great bang for the buck if used correctly. I prefer inserting individual balls (one ball every inch square), once every 3 months, in heavily planted areas. Insert them deep, and use them sparsely. If the balls are are not inserted deeply enough, the result ammonia spikes in the water column often give rise to heavy green dust algae. 

 

When choosing osmocote, it is generally better to go for those with no trace elements (meaning use those that only contain NPK) as terrestrial fertilizer trace compositions may not be completely compatible for aquatic environment usage. Some are overloaded with heavy metals that can induce toxicity buildup in the soil over long term. 

 

This method might not work as well for inert substrates, especially those of coarse grain size as ammonia binds to soil but not inert material. Using them in coarse pea gravel for example, just means that you are slow releasing the osmocote into the water column. (link)

Sand is an inert material 😕. Mud could be a better substrate? 

 

PS: Don't forget to buy a Seachem ammonia alert badge 😉.

Edited September 8, 2021 by M. Tournesol

[billygoat]

17 minutes ago, M. Tournesol said:

Sand is an inert material 😕. Mud could be a better substrate? 

 

PS: Don't forget to buy a Seachem ammonia alert badge 😉.

I read that same article! Mud is probably better, but it's also very difficult to work with and hard to get in the first place... so hopefully sand will do. 😅 The grain size in the middle sandbed of this tank is pretty small, so I think it will do a decent job of keeping those nutrients where I want them.

 

After thinking it over a bit more, I decided to test the fertilizer out on just a few of my plants to see if it works. I planted a pellet of Osmocote next to two of my six seagrass clusters this morning. I will observe the fertilized grasses over the next few weeks and see if their growth increases relative to that of the unfertilized plants. If it does, I will add fertilizer to the rest of them as well.

 

Taking it slow like this will hopefully reduce my chances of accidentally ruining something. 

[DevilDuck]

Be careful with the osomocote tablets. They are easy to overdose if you put too many. I've done it several times when I had planted freshwater tanks.

I would do 1 pellet per 3-4 sq. in. 

 

 

[Pjanssen]

Good luck Billy. I think it’s smart that you are trying it out on just a couple plants to start

[billygoat]

10 hours ago, DevilDuck said:

Be careful with the osomocote tablets. They are easy to overdose if you put too many. I've done it several times when I had planted freshwater tanks.

I would do 1 pellet per 3-4 sq. in. 

This is extremely useful information. Thank you for sharing! Makes me glad that I decided to test things out on just a few plants before putting a bunch of that stuff in there. 😅

 

8 hours ago, Pjanssen said:

Good luck Billy. I think it’s smart that you are trying it out on just a couple plants to start

Thank you Penny! Even if it doesn't work out at all I still think I can make this tank into a beautiful display. I might be getting some new livestock tomorrow so stay tuned!

[billygoat]

A friend of mine was breaking down her pico, so I picked up some new stuff today. I got some random soft corals and a sharknose goby.

 

 

I always forget how small these little gobies are. If I put this thing into my reef tank I'd probably never see it again. 😅

 

The lights were dimming for the day, but here's an FTS. The tank is definitely starting to look a bit more full. I'll try to get a better photo tomorrow.

[Tired]

"No fish in this tank", huh. 

 

He's a cute lil guy, nice find. 

[Firefish15]

Shark nose gobies are cute. Not too long lived, unfortunately. Natural life span is only a year or two I think.

[billygoat]

11 hours ago, Tired said:

"No fish in this tank", huh. 

Right? At least it wasn't my idea this time. 😂 I warned my friend that this tank has no lid, but she didn't seem too concerned about that. Hopefully the decision to add this goby doesn't come back to bite me later.

 

3 hours ago, Firefish15 said:

Shark nose gobies are cute. Not too long lived, unfortunately. Natural life span is only a year or two I think.

And who knows how long this one has already been alive. 🤔 I'm hoping that it will stick around for at least a year or so. It's definitely a pretty little fish.

 

I saw this fairly large bristle worm last night. This must be one of the original bristles I added with my Indo-Pacific Sea Farms order. Seems like it's growing! 😅

 

[filefishfinatic]

that goby will be fine. i had a arceye in my tank before i got my lid 

[filefishfinatic]

wheres the grass

[Tired]

8 hours ago, filefishfinatic said:

that goby will be fine. i had a arceye in my tank before i got my lid 

There is absolutely no way to guarantee that any fish capable of jumping won't jump, except by adding a lid. It'll probably be fine, but it might not. It's all down to luck, and the fish not getting startled while in the wrong spot.

[Firefish15]

29 minutes ago, Tired said:

There is absolutely no way to guarantee that any fish capable of jumping won't jump, except by adding a lid.

I would say not even then. I’ve had two separate barber pole gobies go carpet surfing. And I have a lid!

[billygoat]

1 hour ago, Firefish15 said:

I would say not even then. I’ve had two separate barber pole gobies go carpet surfing. And I have a lid!

I even had a sailfin blenny jump through my lid once. So yeah, nothing is guaranteed. 😅

[Tired]

Yeah, I should probably say "a lid they can't jump through". Half-inch mesh ain't nothin' to stop a goby half the width of a pencil. There's a reason I have glass over the main part of my tank now, and that reason is a very skinny roughhead blenny.