Where can I find a good mentor

[Coinee]

11 minutes ago, Nursecop818 said:

I use a place on 242 for convenience, and their fish have always been good for me for the last five years. But since I started this venture, the lady that more or less runs the salt side of the shop has become a bit unfriendly and seems to be trying to patronize me. I know I don’t know anything. But I can for sure read, and I’m going to look stuff up since I don’t live at her feet to ask questions. I have to learn this somewhere if she won’t be my guru. She told me the day she discouraged algae to not take advice from hobbyists over fish store owners with many tanks. I get that she has a successful business with thousands of fish- but it would also stand to reason other people know as much as she does too. Anyway. The shop is conveniently located and the fish have always been healthy, prices reasonable. I can get water emergently. But it’s not super fun going there. 

She sounds like she has a complex or something. A lot of LFS have ridiculous suggestions and advice because they want to push products. There are hobbyists who spend all their time doing research or have backgrounds in marine biology and so on. It's a shame she has that attitude and justifies it by using an argument from authority (a logical fallacy).

[Thrassian Atoll]

Have you tested the water you are getting from the store?  High nitrates in a new tank is pretty common.  Some people actually run nitrates between 20-40 and have great results.  I wouldn’t worry too much unless you see a lot of algae starting to grow.  

 

 I know it’s hard and I have found out the hard way, but the less you change things and worry about everything, the better things will be in the long run.  

[banasophia]

18 minutes ago, Nursecop818 said:

She told me the day she discouraged algae to not take advice from hobbyists over fish store owners with many tanks. I get that she has a successful business with thousands of fish- but it would also stand to reason other people know as much as she does too. Anyway. The shop is conveniently located and the fish have always been healthy, prices reasonable. I can get water emergently. But it’s not super fun going there. 

Bwahaha well that’s the other side of the coin... on here people often say not to listen to people at the LFS. I try to listen to everyone, observe their tanks, do a lot of reading, and try to make sense of it all. 🙂

[Sancho]

3 hours ago, pokerdobe said:

 

 

The Marsh forums are mostly dead. Not too much activity. They mostly put on Reef Currents every year at the Sheraton and that's mostly it. 

Yeah it’s unfortunate that’s how a lot of the MASNA clubs are going these days. My local club was fantastic until they secured MACNA and it fell apart quick after that. Was hoping she could find a local club with meetings and frag swaps. 

[Polarcollision]

On 2/16/2019 at 1:29 PM, Nursecop818 said:

Thank y’all! I’ll shoot from the hip then. I keep having unacceptable nitrate levels of 20-40ppm. I change the water every three days just about. Have had only one week so far where everything was perfect. When I test the parameters everything is 0 but the nitrates. It’s a Fluval Evo 13.5. Started it Jan 21st this year. Took the top off, have an orbit light running it’s typical daily program. Have one wave pump in the bottom right corner to push flow back up towards the Skimmer. Have an in tank chamber 1 basket with floss/Fluval clearmax/100gm carbon/bio rings. Chamber 2 has the PS2 Skimmer, then have the stock pump running chamber 3 with the heater at 79. I feed pellets once a day, just a few to the clowns and to the scarlet. Swish some frozen cyclops shrimp at night. 

 

Livestock: 

black oscellaris

Percula 

blue spotted goby

scarlet shrimp

candy cane snapping shrimp

4 trochus snails

10 dwarf red top hermits

zoa

2 palys 

3 star polyps

2 hairy mushrooms

 

Feed the corals MicroVert every Monday and Thursday. So. What am I doing wrong? My LFS told me don’t use purigen or algae because she’s never had to on her tank, and she only has to do water changes every month. I feel like I need to own my own stock in saltwater at this point with the amount I’ve had to use. 🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️ Please help me figure out how to win this battle of the nitrates and actually make it to once a week water changes. I’d take once a week. I think her once a month is showing off. 

 haven't read the rest of this thread yet so hopefully not repeating

 

First off, your new tank is an infant with a bowel not fully colonized with a stable bacterial population. this should be your focus at this time, less chasing nitrates, less water changes.

 

What test kit are you measuring nitrates with? Some are better quality than others, some are more forgiving of human error, and some have expired on the shelf. Basically, are your nitrates actually 20-40 is the first thing to confirm.

 

What is the nitrate result of your freshly mixed salt before it's used for a water change? and if it is 0, have you done a 100% water change with no change in nitrate readings? Sussing out source here.

 

If they are high, what are your phosphates and potassium levels? These three are one of the parameter trinities that need to be balanced to each other. There are charts on the web and fairy recently in my thread.

 

As you probably know already, Alk, Ca, Mg are the second parameter trinity. If the NO3-PO4-K trinity is running high, then it's sometimes better to run Alk-Ca-Mg higher as well (though still within the recommended ranges of successful reefs) with higher lighting in order to burn off parameters with growth.

 

If you're doing water changes every 3 days, there's no need to feed corals in a tank that was set up in Jan. It's unlikely to be overstocked yet and unlikely micronutrients have been stripped from the water. Except for NPS and some LPS, there's no need to ever feed coral anything other than fish poop and light. Though there are some cases where acropower (or similar) helps with SPS color if coral is stressed. the fish are still tiny. their stomach is about the size of their eye and they can live just fine for a week without food (not suggesting going that long). I feed once every day or every other day, just enough to be eaten within 5-7 minutes. Feed whatever you want, but keep the quantity tiny. Pellets are nutritionally dense. I feed them every day. Frozen mysis, plankton, and rotifers are high in good fats and some oxidation-prone nutrients that pellets can lack.

 

The larger sand particle means less surface area for bacteria to colonize and more sand bed maintenance and almost no anaerobic bacteria. Good? Bad? there are successful reefs with both sand types, it does change how it's managed though. I suspect 3 weeks is not enough time for a stable bacterial population. And there's most likely none to very little anaerobic bacterial colonies in the rock yet which will convert nitrates to nitrogen. Give this time. a month or more sometimes.

 

change your filter floss daily or every other day for a while to remove food that's not eaten and detritus that will increase NO3 and PO4.

 

If NO3 and PO4 are high, I've been enjoying the simplicity of redsea NOPOX. waaaayyy under dose for several weeks. No sudden changes, especially with this type of additive that can't be 'turned off' because it's not really self-limiting when nutrients fall too low.

 

Seachem makes purigen, matrix, and de*nitrate. Purigen removes organics before they can break down into NO3. So it won't correct any current NO3 levels. It also polishes water. It needs to be replaced or recharged every month or so. Matrix and de*nitrate are both buy it once and never change or replace it. Matrix cultivates aerobic and anaerobic bacteria that will reduce nitrogens in various stages of the cycle, ultimately resulting in lower NO3 levels. de*nitrate is specifically designed to reduce NO3. it must be placed in an area with less than 50 gph flow to cultivate anaerobic bacteria. These will convert NO3 to nitrogen gas and lower your levels. I like these media better than anything else because they are self-limiting. When any form of nitrogen is depleted, the bacteria starve and die back to levels appropriate to water levels. Or they grow to food availability levels. Removes human error and makes the tank more stable. BUT you have to be patient. It takes weeks to months to lower high levels. This is not a bad thing. I use all three media in a passive flow chamber.

 

And lastly, my personal experiment is to see how long I can keep a vibrant reef with NO water changes. It has been 14 months since I did a water change. You can read the details on my latest post (24 gallon nuvo), but my new test kit says my nitrates are 64 ppm, previous test kit says 0-1 ppm. I don't fully believe either one. Fish are healthy, coral are vibrant, and it takes 3 days for a film to grow on the glass with very little algae. Also, if the reading does happen to be true... well... fish are healthy, coral are vibrant... etc. so is there really a problem having high nitrates? Not in my tank.

 

EXCELLENT info that will occupy your science-mind needing to know how and why things work while your tank matures is at advancedaquarist.com and also anything Randy Holms Farley has to say about water chemistry. Now that Ive read through this thread, true to NR, you've gotten some great advice. We're here to help you! And we all started right where you are today, but with the support of this forum, grown and learned so much. You'll love the places this hobby takes you, and you'll even add so many pockets of expertise to your arsenal as you grow with your tank. Everything from electrician to chemist to naturalist to biologist to philosopher, etc., the intersection of so many disciplines. You've picked a challenging (in a good way) and super rewarding hobby! Welcome to the addiction! 🙂

[banasophia]

7 hours ago, Polarcollision said:

 haven't read the rest of this thread yet so hopefully not repeating

 

First off, your new tank is an infant with a bowel not fully colonized with a stable bacterial population. this should be your focus at this time, less chasing nitrates, less water changes.

 

What test kit are you measuring nitrates with? Some are better quality than others, some are more forgiving of human error, and some have expired on the shelf. Basically, are your nitrates actually 20-40 is the first thing to confirm.

 

What is the nitrate result of your freshly mixed salt before it's used for a water change? and if it is 0, have you done a 100% water change with no change in nitrate readings? Sussing out source here.

 

If they are high, what are your phosphates and potassium levels? These three are one of the parameter trinities that need to be balanced to each other. There are charts on the web and fairy recently in my thread.

 

As you probably know already, Alk, Ca, Mg are the second parameter trinity. If the NO3-PO4-K trinity is running high, then it's sometimes better to run Alk-Ca-Mg higher as well (though still within the recommended ranges of successful reefs) with higher lighting in order to burn off parameters with growth.

 

If you're doing water changes every 3 days, there's no need to feed corals in a tank that was set up in Jan. It's unlikely to be overstocked yet and unlikely micronutrients have been stripped from the water. Except for NPS and some LPS, there's no need to ever feed coral anything other than fish poop and light. Though there are some cases where acropower (or similar) helps with SPS color if coral is stressed. the fish are still tiny. their stomach is about the size of their eye and they can live just fine for a week without food (not suggesting going that long). I feed once every day or every other day, just enough to be eaten within 5-7 minutes. Feed whatever you want, but keep the quantity tiny. Pellets are nutritionally dense. I feed them every day. Frozen mysis, plankton, and rotifers are high in good fats and some oxidation-prone nutrients that pellets can lack.

 

The larger sand particle means less surface area for bacteria to colonize and more sand bed maintenance and almost no anaerobic bacteria. Good? Bad? there are successful reefs with both sand types, it does change how it's managed though. I suspect 3 weeks is not enough time for a stable bacterial population. And there's most likely none to very little anaerobic bacterial colonies in the rock yet which will convert nitrates to nitrogen. Give this time. a month or more sometimes.

 

change your filter floss daily or every other day for a while to remove food that's not eaten and detritus that will increase NO3 and PO4.

 

If NO3 and PO4 are high, I've been enjoying the simplicity of redsea NOPOX. waaaayyy under dose for several weeks. No sudden changes, especially with this type of additive that can't be 'turned off' because it's not really self-limiting when nutrients fall too low.

 

Seachem makes purigen, matrix, and de*nitrate. Purigen removes organics before they can break down into NO3. So it won't correct any current NO3 levels. It also polishes water. It needs to be replaced or recharged every month or so. Matrix and de*nitrate are both buy it once and never change or replace it. Matrix cultivates aerobic and anaerobic bacteria that will reduce nitrogens in various stages of the cycle, ultimately resulting in lower NO3 levels. de*nitrate is specifically designed to reduce NO3. it must be placed in an area with less than 50 gph flow to cultivate anaerobic bacteria. These will convert NO3 to nitrogen gas and lower your levels. I like these media better than anything else because they are self-limiting. When any form of nitrogen is depleted, the bacteria starve and die back to levels appropriate to water levels. Or they grow to food availability levels. Removes human error and makes the tank more stable. BUT you have to be patient. It takes weeks to months to lower high levels. This is not a bad thing. I use all three media in a passive flow chamber.

 

And lastly, my personal experiment is to see how long I can keep a vibrant reef with NO water changes. It has been 14 months since I did a water change. You can read the details on my latest post (24 gallon nuvo), but my new test kit says my nitrates are 64 ppm, previous test kit says 0-1 ppm. I don't fully believe either one. Fish are healthy, coral are vibrant, and it takes 3 days for a film to grow on the glass with very little algae. Also, if the reading does happen to be true... well... fish are healthy, coral are vibrant... etc. so is there really a problem having high nitrates? Not in my tank.

 

EXCELLENT info that will occupy your science-mind needing to know how and why things work while your tank matures is at advancedaquarist.com and also anything Randy Holms Farley has to say about water chemistry. Now that Ive read through this thread, true to NR, you've gotten some great advice. We're here to help you! And we all started right where you are today, but with the support of this forum, grown and learned so much. You'll love the places this hobby takes you, and you'll even add so many pockets of expertise to your arsenal as you grow with your tank. Everything from electrician to chemist to naturalist to biologist to philosopher, etc., the intersection of so many disciplines. You've picked a challenging (in a good way) and super rewarding hobby! Welcome to the addiction! 🙂

Great information, thanks. I use a lot of Matrix myself in the rear chambers of my tank, but I was not familiar with de*nitrate so I just checked it out on the Seachem site and thought others here might be interested in this info as well:

 

[pokerdobe]

8 hours ago, Nursecop818 said:

I use a place on 242 for convenience, and their fish have always been good for me for the last five years. But since I started this venture, the lady that more or less runs the salt side of the shop has become a bit unfriendly and seems to be trying to patronize me. I know I don’t know anything. But I can for sure read, and I’m going to look stuff up since I don’t live at her feet to ask questions. I have to learn this somewhere if she won’t be my guru. She told me the day she discouraged algae to not take advice from hobbyists over fish store owners with many tanks. I get that she has a successful business with thousands of fish- but it would also stand to reason other people know as much as she does too. Anyway. The shop is conveniently located and the fish have always been healthy, prices reasonable. I can get water emergently. But it’s not super fun going there. 

Is the the place off 242 and Donwick? 

 

She sounds... unpleasant to say the least. Houston is primarily dominated by a few LFS - with Oceanlife and That Aquarium Place being the most referred. Both are very pleasant to work with and friendly. Disclaimer, the owner of Oceanlife attended my wedding, so I might be a little biased.  

 

Your LFS seems rather stuck on her method. Any good store owner, or even hobbyist knows there's definitely more than one way to skin a cat, especially in this hobby. 

[ECLS Reefer]

11 minutes ago, pokerdobe said:

Is the the place off 242 and Donwick? 

 

She sounds... unpleasant to say the least. Houston is primarily dominated by a few LFS - with Oceanlife and That Aquarium Place being the most referred. Both are very pleasant to work with and friendly. Disclaimer, the owner of Oceanlife attended my wedding, so I might be a little biased.  

 

Your LFS seems rather stuck on her method. Any good store owner, or even hobbyist knows there's definitely more than one way to skin a cat, especially in this hobby. 

It’s off 242, on the way east towards 1314 or 59. The store doesn’t sit next to a cross street, just facing 242. There’s a younger sales girl there that’s always been more helpful and approachable, but I’ve noticed that the owner lady (it’s a husband/wife owned shop) tends to kind of herd her out of the way so she can butt in and hear what’s said and interject her advice. I know she means well- she definitely has the attitude of protecting her stock and not wanting to see something sold just to die. But at the same time, she also has RBF, and since I am learning my way here as a newbie, she comes across as intimidating and patronizing, which annoys me because I don’t react well to either of those. I’m a rather assertive medical person and I live with a cop- I’m not one to cower well. And she’s crazy if she thinks I won’t do my homework on keeping these tanks- my goal is to be successful here! So if she doesn’t want to really advise me a lot, and she doesn’t want me to reach out to hobbyist with much more experience, I’m not sure exactly who she wants me to consult... a Ouija board? 

[ECLS Reefer]

7 hours ago, Polarcollision said:

 haven't read the rest of this thread yet so hopefully not repeating

 

First off, your new tank is an infant with a bowel not fully colonized with a stable bacterial population. this should be your focus at this time, less chasing nitrates, less water changes.

 

What test kit are you measuring nitrates with? Some are better quality than others, some are more forgiving of human error, and some have expired on the shelf. Basically, are your nitrates actually 20-40 is the first thing to confirm.

 

What is the nitrate result of your freshly mixed salt before it's used for a water change? and if it is 0, have you done a 100% water change with no change in nitrate readings? Sussing out source here.

 

If they are high, what are your phosphates and potassium levels? These three are one of the parameter trinities that need to be balanced to each other. There are charts on the web and fairy recently in my thread.

 

As you probably know already, Alk, Ca, Mg are the second parameter trinity. If the NO3-PO4-K trinity is running high, then it's sometimes better to run Alk-Ca-Mg higher as well (though still within the recommended ranges of successful reefs) with higher lighting in order to burn off parameters with growth.

 

If you're doing water changes every 3 days, there's no need to feed corals in a tank that was set up in Jan. It's unlikely to be overstocked yet and unlikely micronutrients have been stripped from the water. Except for NPS and some LPS, there's no need to ever feed coral anything other than fish poop and light. Though there are some cases where acropower (or similar) helps with SPS color if coral is stressed. the fish are still tiny. their stomach is about the size of their eye and they can live just fine for a week without food (not suggesting going that long). I feed once every day or every other day, just enough to be eaten within 5-7 minutes. Feed whatever you want, but keep the quantity tiny. Pellets are nutritionally dense. I feed them every day. Frozen mysis, plankton, and rotifers are high in good fats and some oxidation-prone nutrients that pellets can lack.

 

The larger sand particle means less surface area for bacteria to colonize and more sand bed maintenance and almost no anaerobic bacteria. Good? Bad? there are successful reefs with both sand types, it does change how it's managed though. I suspect 3 weeks is not enough time for a stable bacterial population. And there's most likely none to very little anaerobic bacterial colonies in the rock yet which will convert nitrates to nitrogen. Give this time. a month or more sometimes.

 

change your filter floss daily or every other day for a while to remove food that's not eaten and detritus that will increase NO3 and PO4.

 

If NO3 and PO4 are high, I've been enjoying the simplicity of redsea NOPOX. waaaayyy under dose for several weeks. No sudden changes, especially with this type of additive that can't be 'turned off' because it's not really self-limiting when nutrients fall too low.

 

Seachem makes purigen, matrix, and de*nitrate. Purigen removes organics before they can break down into NO3. So it won't correct any current NO3 levels. It also polishes water. It needs to be replaced or recharged every month or so. Matrix and de*nitrate are both buy it once and never change or replace it. Matrix cultivates aerobic and anaerobic bacteria that will reduce nitrogens in various stages of the cycle, ultimately resulting in lower NO3 levels. de*nitrate is specifically designed to reduce NO3. it must be placed in an area with less than 50 gph flow to cultivate anaerobic bacteria. These will convert NO3 to nitrogen gas and lower your levels. I like these media better than anything else because they are self-limiting. When any form of nitrogen is depleted, the bacteria starve and die back to levels appropriate to water levels. Or they grow to food availability levels. Removes human error and makes the tank more stable. BUT you have to be patient. It takes weeks to months to lower high levels. This is not a bad thing. I use all three media in a passive flow chamber.

 

And lastly, my personal experiment is to see how long I can keep a vibrant reef with NO water changes. It has been 14 months since I did a water change. You can read the details on my latest post (24 gallon nuvo), but my new test kit says my nitrates are 64 ppm, previous test kit says 0-1 ppm. I don't fully believe either one. Fish are healthy, coral are vibrant, and it takes 3 days for a film to grow on the glass with very little algae. Also, if the reading does happen to be true... well... fish are healthy, coral are vibrant... etc. so is there really a problem having high nitrates? Not in my tank.

 

EXCELLENT info that will occupy your science-mind needing to know how and why things work while your tank matures is at advancedaquarist.com and also anything Randy Holms Farley has to say about water chemistry. Now that Ive read through this thread, true to NR, you've gotten some great advice. We're here to help you! And we all started right where you are today, but with the support of this forum, grown and learned so much. You'll love the places this hobby takes you, and you'll even add so many pockets of expertise to your arsenal as you grow with your tank. Everything from electrician to chemist to naturalist to biologist to philosopher, etc., the intersection of so many disciplines. You've picked a challenging (in a good way) and super rewarding hobby! Welcome to the addiction! 🙂

This is awesome!! Thanks! I’ve been using Fluval clearmax because it’s a Fluval tank and that seemed like an easy product, but I’ve seen everybody talk about purigen. I think I may get some. It seems from reading this the matrix and de*nitrate would replace any bio rings I have? Would that be correct? And I guess I need to check into this NOPOX stuff as well since people keep mentioning it. Thanks for the advice. This definitely has been like reawakening my chemistry and microbiology classes, but fun.

[Polarcollision]

2 hours ago, Nursecop818 said:

This is awesome!! Thanks! I’ve been using Fluval clearmax because it’s a Fluval tank and that seemed like an easy product, but I’ve seen everybody talk about purigen. I think I may get some. It seems from reading this the matrix and de*nitrate would replace any bio rings I have? Would that be correct? And I guess I need to check into this NOPOX stuff as well since people keep mentioning it. Thanks for the advice. This definitely has been like reawakening my chemistry and microbiology classes, but fun.

🙂 I get the feeling we have a similar mindset towards reefing and keeping things alive. It's been a lot of fun reading through your thread. Following your mindset definitely rekindled energy towards my own tank. Plus, having a new tank and thinking about all the possibilities of coral to enjoy and take care of and then swimming in the sea of info out there is truly overwhelming. Especially not knowing what to react to daily and what to let ride out. If you will, I'd like to redirect your daily water change and nitrate obsession to alkalinity stability and changing out dirty filter floss. Try to keep swings no more than .5 KH and eventually no more than .25 KH over the course of a day (pH adjusted, of course).

 

Fluval doesn't give a lot of specific info on their bio ring page. So a lot is left to interpretation. All they claim is reduction of ammonia (mostly aerobic process) and nitrates (fully anaerobic). It doesn't say how often or even if they should be replaced either. So I would guess that they function the same way as seachem matrix in flow higher than 50 gph.

 

I've always been a fan of including multiple solutions in my tank for one problem. So for reducing nitrates, I'd have a skimmer, the 3 seachem products, NOPOX, macroalgae, a sea hare if hair algae begins to over-grow corals, and (not for me by preference) water changes. Purigen is great. I mix it in my second in-tank basket chamber with phosban and carbon, and change it out every month or two. Keep in mind that purigen will remove nitrogen in forms before it breaks down into NO3, so if your nitrates truly are high, de*nitrate is what you want to add first.

 

Maybe API has improved their test kit quality, but almost everyone intently tracking test results eventually switches over to salifert, ELOS, redsea, Hanna, and others because they're more reliable. When I first started reefing, there was a definite bias against API test kits because their colorimetric chart was so hard to read and because the results were either not high enough resolution to even matter or human error was too easy to introduce to make the results meaningless. Check out the options available at bulk reef supply when it's time to replace your test kits. https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/aquarium-monitors-controllers/testing.html Even if you don't purchase there, at least you know the general reefing community supports the stocking of those products.

[Coinee]

20 minutes ago, Polarcollision said:

🙂 I get the feeling we have a similar mindset towards reefing and keeping things alive. It's been a lot of fun reading through your thread. Following your mindset definitely rekindled energy towards my own tank. Plus, having a new tank and thinking about all the possibilities of coral to enjoy and take care of and then swimming in the sea of info out there is truly overwhelming. Especially not knowing what to react to daily and what to let ride out. If you will, I'd like to redirect your daily water change and nitrate obsession to alkalinity stability and changing out dirty filter floss. Try to keep swings no more than .5 KH and eventually no more than .25 KH over the course of a day (pH adjusted, of course).

 

Fluval doesn't give a lot of specific info on their bio ring page. So a lot is left to interpretation. All they claim is reduction of ammonia (mostly aerobic process) and nitrates (fully anaerobic). It doesn't say how often or even if they should be replaced either. So I would guess that they function the same way as seachem matrix in flow higher than 50 gph.

 

I've always been a fan of including multiple solutions in my tank for one problem. So for reducing nitrates, I'd have a skimmer, the 3 seachem products, NOPOX, macroalgae, a sea hare if hair algae begins to over-grow corals, and (not for me by preference) water changes. Purigen is great. I mix it in my second in-tank basket chamber with phosban and carbon, and change it out every month or two. Keep in mind that purigen will remove nitrogen in forms before it breaks down into NO3, so if your nitrates truly are high, de*nitrate is what you want to add first.

 

Maybe API has improved their test kit quality, but almost everyone intently tracking test results eventually switches over to salifert, ELOS, redsea, Hanna, and others because they're more reliable. When I first started reefing, there was a definite bias against API test kits because their colorimetric chart was so hard to read and because the results were either not high enough resolution to even matter or human error was too easy to introduce to make the results meaningless. Check out the options available at bulk reef supply when it's time to replace your test kits. https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/aquarium-monitors-controllers/testing.html Even if you don't purchase there, at least you know the general reefing community supports the stocking of those products.

In regard to the API test quality, a huge margin of error is in using their test tubes. Their "5 ml" marks are all at different heights on each tube and they are not even close to being 5 ml marks! If you want any sort of accuracy you must use a syringe or something to draw 5 ml of water. API's support have said their tests are calibrated so you can "use the line or use a measured 5 ml of water"  which is total bullshit. Salifert is great IMO, but in the end more often than not we care more about actual trends in the tests (decreasing or increasing) and a ballpark figure. API gives you that more or less but there are more accurate tests if you want to spend more money. I use some API (I measure 5 ml with a syringe) and some Salifert tests.

[ECLS Reefer]

19 minutes ago, Polarcollision said:

🙂 I get the feeling we have a similar mindset towards reefing and keeping things alive. It's been a lot of fun reading through your thread. Following your mindset definitely rekindled energy towards my own tank. Plus, having a new tank and thinking about all the possibilities of coral to enjoy and take care of and then swimming in the sea of info out there is truly overwhelming. Especially not knowing what to react to daily and what to let ride out. If you will, I'd like to redirect your daily water change and nitrate obsession to alkalinity stability and changing out dirty filter floss. Try to keep swings no more than .5 KH and eventually no more than .25 KH over the course of a day (pH adjusted, of course).

 

Fluval doesn't give a lot of specific info on their bio ring page. So a lot is left to interpretation. All they claim is reduction of ammonia (mostly aerobic process) and nitrates (fully anaerobic). It doesn't say how often or even if they should be replaced either. So I would guess that they function the same way as seachem matrix in flow higher than 50 gph.

 

I've always been a fan of including multiple solutions in my tank for one problem. So for reducing nitrates, I'd have a skimmer, the 3 seachem products, NOPOX, macroalgae, a sea hare if hair algae begins to over-grow corals, and (not for me by preference) water changes. Purigen is great. I mix it in my second in-tank basket chamber with phosban and carbon, and change it out every month or two. Keep in mind that purigen will remove nitrogen in forms before it breaks down into NO3, so if your nitrates truly are high, de*nitrate is what you want to add first.

 

Maybe API has improved their test kit quality, but almost everyone intently tracking test results eventually switches over to salifert, ELOS, redsea, Hanna, and others because they're more reliable. When I first started reefing, there was a definite bias against API test kits because their colorimetric chart was so hard to read and because the results were either not high enough resolution to even matter or human error was too easy to introduce to make the results meaningless. Check out the options available at bulk reef supply when it's time to replace your test kits. https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/aquarium-monitors-controllers/testing.html Even if you don't purchase there, at least you know the general reefing community supports the stocking of those products.

Thanks for those tips! I guess I’m doing something right- my big clump if palys today split off and had a baby that seems to be happily living in the sand. Going on a month old and nothing had died, so while I may be obsessed as my husband says, at least I haven’t killed anything! 

 

Im gonna have to change fish stores, seriously. I just went to buy water because I like to keep two full tanks, and while looking at coral with my kids, who ask a lot of questions, the lady walked over and asked the girl helping if she’d finished her work elsewhere. The girl said no, and told her we were discussing hammer and torch corals and the lady immediately said “in YOUR tank?! BAD IDEA!!!!” I just looked at her, I’m pretty sure my jaw might have hit the floor. Previously, she’s said a hammer would be find because I’d upgraded the light system and added a wavepump, so now it’s not?? And not only that it’s because it’s MY tank? I told her but I have upgraded everything and she said yes but is only flowing 13.5 gallons you need a bigger tank. Of course, “I’ll sell you anything you want, but....” at that point I almost told her to take her water back. Then almost as certain gesture, I bought the smallest hammer in there because I wasn’t gonna let her defeat me. And now I’m gonna make this coral live BY GOD. Me and this hammer are gonna make it come hell or high water. 

[ECLS Reefer]

4 minutes ago, Coinee said:

In regard to the API test quality, a huge margin of error is in using their test tubes. Their "5 ml" marks are all at different heights on each tube and they are not even close to being 5 ml marks! If you want any sort of accuracy you must use a syringe or something to draw 5 ml of water. API's support have said their tests are calibrated so you can "use the line or use a measured 5 ml of water"  which is total bullshit. Salifert is great IMO, but in the end more often than not we care more about actual trends in the tests (decreasing or increasing) and a ballpark figure. API gives you that more or less but there are more accurate tests if you want to spend more money. I use some API (I measure 5 ml with a syringe) and some Salifert tests.

That makes sense I have a syringe and can measure 5ml from now on. I’d just been using it to make it on the line exactly. And it does make for a good trend line. 

[Polarcollision]

1 hour ago, Nursecop818 said:

Thanks for those tips! I guess I’m doing something right- my big clump if palys today split off and had a baby that seems to be happily living in the sand. Going on a month old and nothing had died, so while I may be obsessed as my husband says, at least I haven’t killed anything! 

 

Im gonna have to change fish stores, seriously. I just went to buy water because I like to keep two full tanks, and while looking at coral with my kids, who ask a lot of questions, the lady walked over and asked the girl helping if she’d finished her work elsewhere. The girl said no, and told her we were discussing hammer and torch corals and the lady immediately said “in YOUR tank?! BAD IDEA!!!!” I just looked at her, I’m pretty sure my jaw might have hit the floor. Previously, she’s said a hammer would be find because I’d upgraded the light system and added a wavepump, so now it’s not?? And not only that it’s because it’s MY tank? I told her but I have upgraded everything and she said yes but is only flowing 13.5 gallons you need a bigger tank. Of course, “I’ll sell you anything you want, but....” at that point I almost told her to take her water back. Then almost as certain gesture, I bought the smallest hammer in there because I wasn’t gonna let her defeat me. And now I’m gonna make this coral live BY GOD. Me and this hammer are gonna make it come hell or high water. 

Haha! There are so many small tanks with hammers in them so it's possible in your tank too. 🙂 it might eventually be the ONLY coral in your tank, but show her these.

[Clown79]

4 hours ago, Nursecop818 said:

This is awesome!! Thanks! I’ve been using Fluval clearmax because it’s a Fluval tank and that seemed like an easy product, but I’ve seen everybody talk about purigen. I think I may get some. It seems from reading this the matrix and de*nitrate would replace any bio rings I have? Would that be correct? And I guess I need to check into this NOPOX stuff as well since people keep mentioning it. Thanks for the advice. This definitely has been like reawakening my chemistry and microbiology classes, but fun.

Nopox is not necessary unless there is an issue, really best to be used when needed. It requires a very good skimmer.

 

Keeping things simple is often better, especially in the beginning.

 

Use of certain equipment and media should be based on necessity. Each system is different and will have different needs.

 

Everyone has their favourite products and methods.

Do lots of research on media, what exactly it's used for, how it can effect the tank, and do you need it.

 

Starting with floss and carbon or floss and chemipure is common.

 

If you have sufficient liverock, rings and such is not really needed.

 

The lfs sales person doesn't sound pleasant to deal with. 

I would definitely do your own research, go in and buy what you need if it's your only option. 

 

There is lots of online shopping available😁

[Clown79]

1 hour ago, Nursecop818 said:

Thanks for those tips! I guess I’m doing something right- my big clump if palys today split off and had a baby that seems to be happily living in the sand. Going on a month old and nothing had died, so while I may be obsessed as my husband says, at least I haven’t killed anything! 

 

Im gonna have to change fish stores, seriously. I just went to buy water because I like to keep two full tanks, and while looking at coral with my kids, who ask a lot of questions, the lady walked over and asked the girl helping if she’d finished her work elsewhere. The girl said no, and told her we were discussing hammer and torch corals and the lady immediately said “in YOUR tank?! BAD IDEA!!!!” I just looked at her, I’m pretty sure my jaw might have hit the floor. Previously, she’s said a hammer would be find because I’d upgraded the light system and added a wavepump, so now it’s not?? And not only that it’s because it’s MY tank? I told her but I have upgraded everything and she said yes but is only flowing 13.5 gallons you need a bigger tank. Of course, “I’ll sell you anything you want, but....” at that point I almost told her to take her water back. Then almost as certain gesture, I bought the smallest hammer in there because I wasn’t gonna let her defeat me. And now I’m gonna make this coral live BY GOD. Me and this hammer are gonna make it come hell or high water. 

Is she the owner? If not, her behaviour is not good for customer service.

 

Most of us on here, have small tanks with hammers, frogspawn, torches. 

 

[ECLS Reefer]

26 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Is she the owner? If not, her behaviour is not good for customer service.

 

Most of us on here, have small tanks with hammers, frogspawn, torches. 

 

She’s the owner. Makes me kind of sick to think of going up there now for anything because of how rude she is. And the pictures of other tanks with the hammer and torch in it are awesome, but I guarantee you she’d have something to say about how they’re much better than me and I shouldn’t try it, or she’d never do that with her 13.5, or something of that nature. At any rate, I acclimated the wee little hammer for over an hour and put him in, regulated the flow til he’s just waving and made sure he’s got plenty of room. We shall see. He looks pretty happy at the moment. 

[vegasgundog]

I have 3 different lfs I go to, each really for different reasons. One i don't go to much anymore. None are really elitist but I'll double check Live Aquaria on my phone when they tell me stuff. I've stood and spied on a conversation to see what was going to happen when the lady wanted a new blue tang for her 10gl aquarium and didnt know why they always died. He caught on that I was listening closely so I realy dont know if would of made the sale had I not been there.

[ECLS Reefer]

My brother has two 180g salt tanks and has had for like 15 years now. He pays someone to clean and do heavy work for him but maintains them otherwise. He bought a “Dory” for his home tank once- she pooped it to death pretty quickly. Said he’d never have another. He also had a lion that he got tired of having to defend himself from when feeding and not being able to keep other fish with. So for some of it, I already had some inclination toward what fish I could and couldn’t stick in this tiny tank. 

[ECLS Reefer]

7 minutes ago, vegasgundog said:

I have 3 different lfs I go to, each really for different reasons. One i don't go to much anymore. None are really elitist but I'll double check Live Aquaria on my phone when they tell me stuff. I've stood and spied on a conversation to see what was going to happen when the lady wanted a new blue tang for her 10gl aquarium and didnt know why they always died. He caught on that I was listening closely so I realy dont know if would of made the sale had I not been there.

Also, the location of this particular store is so convenient, it’s 99% of why I go there. I work so much and am in school full time so driving all over Houston is an added day trip. I already drive 45 minutes one way to work. BUT. After today it’s not worth the bitterness to my soul to go in there and be made to feel stupid and incapable. 

[ECLS Reefer]

I mean- the little hammer doesn’t look too insulted to be in my tank does it? It opened up almost immediately and spread back out. 

[vegasgundog]

25 minutes ago, Nursecop818 said:

Also, the location of this particular store is so convenient, it’s 99% of why I go there. I work so much and am in school full time so driving all over Houston is an added day trip. I already drive 45 minutes one way to work. BUT. After today it’s not worth the bitterness to my soul to go in there and be made to feel stupid and incapable. 

She should be wanting to further the health of livestock by teaching you in a positive way. Used to live for fly fishing back home ind one shop was so elitist I quit going in. Which reminds me I used to complain about driving 45 minutes to fly fish but now I'm in vegas and 45min is a jaunt to a lfs and 2.5 hours for "decent" fly fishing in lower Utah. My aquarium has been my happy place especially after a long night where guys like your husband spend a few minutes pissing someone off then I have to go get them out of their car put them in a fancy chair and then listen to them for the next 2 hours until we take them out of the chair and spend 12 hours all the other people who complain those weren't my pants and the drugs weren't mine😉🤣 oh and my wife is a hospice RN 😁

[ECLS Reefer]

17 minutes ago, vegasgundog said:

She should be wanting to further the health of livestock by teaching you in a positive way. Used to live for fly fishing back home ind one shop was so elitist I quit going in. Which reminds me I used to complain about driving 45 minutes to fly fish but now I'm in vegas and 45min is a jaunt to a lfs and 2.5 hours for "decent" fly fishing in lower Utah. My aquarium has been my happy place especially after a long night where guys like your husband spend a few minutes pissing someone off then I have to go get them out of their car put them in a fancy chair and then listen to them for the next 2 hours until we take them out of the chair and spend 12 hours all the other people who complain those weren't my pants and the drugs weren't mine😉🤣 oh and my wife is a hospice RN 😁

Well at least they haven’t told you they just slipped and fell on something and it ended up in an awkward place. I spent the first 7.5 years of my career as an ER/trauma nurse and a total of 9.5 in adult critical care/ER. I heard a lot of strange stories about how objects ended up in places or people in strange situations. 

 

I imagine she thinks that’s what she’s doing, trying to promote smart husbandry, but the way she talks to me is like I’m an idiot. I may be new at salt tank life but I’m no idiot and I do learn quickly. She also always acts like she doesn’t have time for me when I want to ask her questions, so maybe I’m just not her person. That was probably the chief reason I strayed this thread in the first place— she was the only person I knew, and she wouldn’t really help me without making me feel like crap. And belittling other sources of information and telling me not to seek help from places like this forum. So if she won’t help me, and doesn’t want me to talk to people like on this forum, I’m not sure how she plans I’ll succeed. But she really made me upset today, by implying I was just going to kill this hammer if I bought it. So I guess I’ll just switch to a different store as recommended. It’s not right down the street by any means but it’s not on the dark side of the moon either. And if they don’t make me feel wretched it’s a win. 

[Coinee]

14 minutes ago, Nursecop818 said:

Well at least they haven’t told you they just slipped and fell on something and it ended up in an awkward place. I spent the first 7.5 years of my career as an ER/trauma nurse and a total of 9.5 in adult critical care/ER. I heard a lot of strange stories about how objects ended up in places or people in strange situations. 

 

I imagine she thinks that’s what she’s doing, trying to promote smart husbandry, but the way she talks to me is like I’m an idiot. I may be new at salt tank life but I’m no idiot and I do learn quickly. She also always acts like she doesn’t have time for me when I want to ask her questions, so maybe I’m just not her person. That was probably the chief reason I strayed this thread in the first place— she was the only person I knew, and she wouldn’t really help me without making me feel like crap. And belittling other sources of information and telling me not to seek help from places like this forum. So if she won’t help me, and doesn’t want me to talk to people like on this forum, I’m not sure how she plans I’ll succeed. But she really made me upset today, by implying I was just going to kill this hammer if I bought it. So I guess I’ll just switch to a different store as recommended. It’s not right down the street by any means but it’s not on the dark side of the moon either. And if they don’t make me feel wretched it’s a win. 

She's probably the type of lady who opened the business first without considering her aptitude for dealing with people. Many people don't think so much about the dealing with people aspect of their business. It's not worth a battle, if you do drop by next time just ask her why she is always so condescending and rude to you. Sometimes people don't notice it or they know that you notice it and they stop their acts. Hammers are relatively hardy coral so she's just being a ridiculous witch. 

 

What is the proper way to stock your aquarium according to her? One small rock in the middle of the tank with only one zoa? lol 

[ECLS Reefer]

2 minutes ago, Coinee said:

She's probably the type of lady who opened the business first without considering her aptitude for dealing with people. Many people don't think so much about the dealing with people aspect of their business. It's not worth a battle, if you do drop by next time just ask her why she is always so condescending and rude to you. Sometimes people don't notice it or they know that you notice it and they stop their acts. Hammers are relatively hardy coral so she's just being a ridiculous witch. 

 

What is the proper way to stock your aquarium according to her? One small rock in the middle of the tank with only one zoa? lol 

My goodness at this point I have no idea. She’s told me so much conflicting information in the last month that even my husband has complained about dealing with her when asking questions. When we first started the tank we were told we could get 4 clowns because they’d each pair off. Then no, just 3. So we got 3. They tried to kill the smaller one so I had to BEG her to take the little guy back because I wasn’t going to watch him die- this is supposed to be my 9year old’s tank. He’s not super firm on the emotional aspects of the facts of life yet, and my husband and I are so jaded we are utter failures at helping in that department. Then she acted pouty about me increasing the amount of hermits to help clean. I keep telling her defensively “no one has died in my tank!”

Ill just switch stores because the anxiety SHE produces isn’t worth it.