Does anyone ever find this hobby elitest?

[Nano sapiens]

IME, this happens in any hobby, especially in clubs.  It's part of our primal primate urge to fit into the 'right group' (meaning the one that gives the best advantage such as strength in numbers) and then throw rotten fruit, or worse, at those unfortunates down below that don't fit in...

[Clown79]

3 hours ago, specore said:

BRS is in MN...to me that's practically the same as Canada 🙂

Ya not that far.

I'm only 3hrs from Detroit and 2hrs to Buffalo.

 

 

[WV Reefer]

8 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Ya not that far.

I'm only 3hrs from Detroit and 2hrs to Buffalo.

 

 

I guess we’ll just have to start that smuggling ring after all. ??‍♀️

[NanoRox]

On 8/2/2018 at 12:47 PM, HarryPotter said:

I also hate sellers that do the whole blue LEDs with orange filter. What bull. If the coral aint going to look like that with my eyes, I don't give a damn. WYSIWYG= "what you see is what you get", not "what you see is under royal blues, viewing from above, and wearing orange glasses."

 

Sunlight FTW. I ask $15 for encrusted frags of this and people turn it down all the time, since it is "Red Millipora" instead of giving it a fancy preppy-ass name. 

 

I certainly wouldnt mind purchasing a frag from that.   Beautiful stuff.  I think if I started a coral shop I would just make up my own plain Jane names.  “This here is Bob”  “you say you want two Poccos  and one Pat?”  “I’ll bag ‘Em up for you”. 

[Sancho]

22 hours ago, ReefSafeSolutions said:

There's a local shop here that has pretty good prices but I always feel like they never want me in the store.  It's pretty awkward every time I go in.  I don't know if it's because I'm not "buddy buddy" with the owners like some people I see in there or what.  But it doesn't bother me because they have good prices.

 

Well, they used to...I guess they are still technically considered good, but I get cheaper frags from the local community.  The shop here sells their stuff for just barely over wholesale.  I'm convinced their shop, as well as almost any other tropical fish/coral store, is just a holding facility for their equipment/livestock while the bulk of their business is done in custom tank installs/tank servicing, etc.  There's no way you can make a living in my area with the "buy low sell high" model.  The markup just can't go high enough to make it worth it.  We all want these rad looking pieces but don't want to pay through the nose.  When you introduce the service industry, the margins can improve significantly.

 

This local shop though...I used to score some rad Euphyllia from them, but with the weird import laws from Fiji or whatever, their prices skyrocketed.  They're asking for $100+ per head for regular torches.  That's insane.  I understand the why, but it's still insane.

Spill the beans.....what shop you talking about? I’m still mourning the loss of Encinitas Tropical fish. 

[Snow_Phoenix]

13 hours ago, seabass said:

Well it's not just local fish stores.  You see it online too.  It's more pronounced on certain other sites, but it creeps up here sometimes too.  Luckily, not all that often.  Obviously we don't give anybody crap about keeping small tanks, but we can sometime come off a bit cliquey.  That said, this is usually a pretty inviting community.

Regarding the cliquey part, NR can get that way sometimes too, although it doesn't happen as frequently as compared to before. 

 

But compared to some of the sites/groups/clubs I'm part of, everyone here's pretty decent and fairly knowledgeable. I've watched people leave the hobby because they make really bad mistakes due to really bad advice from LFSes out to make a quick buck, and then get bashed online for it. I know a guy personally who gave up and left because one of my local groups gave him hell because he accidentally brought home a purple majano, thinking it was a 'pretty nem' sold by an unscrupulous LFS. He wasn't a bad person, just someone who had terrible advice + inexperience + not-google-savvy = recipe for reefing disaster. 

 

[RayWhisperer]

On 8/3/2018 at 10:30 AM, specore said:

That is as long as you stay out of the lounge...they are monsters 😀

GFY. I’m a lounge rat, and I try and help out all the time (not in the lounge, of course.) You come into the lounge, expect to get hazed. Can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen. 

 

As as far as elitist attitudes go, I’ve been privy to the other side. I know a lot of store owners personally. Ive helped them with their business, never asking anything in return. Ive seen what they have to deal with. About 90% of their customers are completely clueless. Most have the attitude of “tell me what I want, or I’ll go somewhere else.” So, they have 2 choices, really. Sellwhoever, whatever, whenever. Or, try and take a high road, inform their customers (even if it is old info), maybe even try and knock someone down a notch, or two. Very few people have the skill set to manage customers well, so those are the two types you are left with. 

 

A few pages back, someone commented about hoping for more basement operations. I’m sorry, but I have to disagree with that statement, vehemently. Between big box stores, and online sales, most mom and pop LFS’ have gone the way of the dinosaurs. Those basement chop shops are the final straw, that’ll break the camels back. First off, don’t fool yourselves. They want to make money. They aren’t doing it for a love of the hobby. They see an opportunity created by the void of LFS’. Second, most don’t last a year before moving on to their next “get rich quick” idea. Last, you get about the same guarantee as the worst shops.it died?come back and buy another one.

 

I realize, I’m in the minority where it comes to my opinions. However, I’m not that different from any of you. I like to save a buck where I can. I make no bones about it. Yet, I really like to be able to walk into a store, even if it is only to window shop. I also like the ability to “talk shop” face to face with a real person. Form a relationship with these people. You’d be surprised how far that will get you at almost any LFS.

[DSFIRSTSLTWATER]

11 minutes ago, RayWhisperer said:

GFY. I’m a lounge rat, and I try and help out all the time (not in the lounge, of course.) You come into the lounge, expect to get hazed. Can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen. 

 

As as far as elitist attitudes go, I’ve been privy to the other side. I know a lot of store owners personally. Ive helped them with their business, never asking anything in return. Ive seen what they have to deal with. About 90% of their customers are completely clueless. Most have the attitude of “tell me what I want, or I’ll go somewhere else.” So, they have 2 choices, really. Sellwhoever, whatever, whenever. Or, try and take a high road, inform their customers (even if it is old info), maybe even try and knock someone down a notch, or two. Very few people have the skill set to manage customers well, so those are the two types you are left with. 

 

A few pages back, someone commented about hoping for more basement operations. I’m sorry, but I have to disagree with that statement, vehemently. Between big box stores, and online sales, most mom and pop LFS’ have gone the way of the dinosaurs. Those basement chop shops are the final straw, that’ll break the camels back. First off, don’t fool yourselves. They want to make money. They aren’t doing it for a love of the hobby. They see an opportunity created by the void of LFS’. Second, most don’t last a year before moving on to their next “get rich quick” idea. Last, you get about the same guarantee as the worst shops.it died?come back and buy another one.

 

I realize, I’m in the minority where it comes to my opinions. However, I’m not that different from any of you. I like to save a buck where I can. I make no bones about it. Yet, I really like to be able to walk into a store, even if it is only to window shop. I also like the ability to “talk shop” face to face with a real person. Form a relationship with these people. You’d be surprised how far that will get you at almost any LFS.

I actually just got back from lfs dropped 70 bucks and that was just today. I have spent so much money in there in the last 3 months it's insane. When I first started going I noticed they are very rough to talk to. Not nasty but kinda short. I've been in there and noticed why they are...you should here these people that they have to deal with and I'm not surprised in the least. Once they figured out that I'm not in there to waste their time they are some of the most awesome people. They aren't just trying to sell animals to anyone. I've heard them tell customers that they shouldn't buy this or that because of the tank or what they have in the tank...hell they've talked me out of making bad purchases on more than one occasion. Now I know they are in the minority here in regards to most lfs but I love that they will help you out with anything you ask of them. I am the same in that I like to go to a place and see the product. They are a business and business needs to make money or they won't be there anymore. Prices aren't crazy cause they know people just look online anyways. I know I'm gonna drop a very large amount of money as I'm preparing to set up a 75 gallon and I'll most likely be getting almost everything from them. If we don't try to at least support the good local business even if they are a little higher than online then we're are we going to be in 5 or 10 years? I like that I can go in and have a face to face with some really knowledge people.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to throw this little tid bit out here 🙂

[Frag Factory]

I agree 100% with supporting local shops.

 

Ebay/basement chop shops aren't bad for the hobby, but lets be honest about what they do. Buy a $100 coral, cut it into 20 pieces and sell frags for $10 each.

 

Is there anything wrong with that? No not really. They are displacing the need for 20 people to bring coral in from the wild which is great, but they are sucking money out of the hobby. I'd much rather give my money to a business that will be around in 5 years, who can supply me with dry goods in an emergency or will give me 10 gallons of RO water if I ever have a problem. I'd rather see the profit of my money go back into their fish system and see them expand meaning I get a way better selection in the future.

 

That being said, if I see something on ebay I've never seen before or can't get at my LFS I will order it. Going to my LFS is the preferred option though.

[DSFIRSTSLTWATER]

48 minutes ago, Frag Factory said:

I agree 100% with supporting local shops.

 

Ebay/basement chop shops aren't bad for the hobby, but lets be honest about what they do. Buy a $100 coral, cut it into 20 pieces and sell frags for $10 each.

 

Is there anything wrong with that? No not really. They are displacing the need for 20 people to bring coral in from the wild which is great, but they are sucking money out of the hobby. I'd much rather give my money to a business that will be around in 5 years, who can supply me with dry goods in an emergency or will give me 10 gallons of RO water if I ever have a problem. I'd rather see the profit of my money go back into their fish system and see them expand meaning I get a way better selection in the future.

 

That being said, if I see something on ebay I've never seen before or can't get at my LFS I will order it. Going to my LFS is the preferred option though.

Yeah I hear that. The store I go to they actually frag their supply and they prices aren't bad. The last acan frags I got were 20 bucks each. And all the tanks have their own filtration. Nothing in the store is lumped together so if they have an issue in one tank it's only one tank and not the rest. I like the setup. They actually had a fire early in the year and they had to move to a smaller space. But they do a good job of upkeep. If I saw something out of this world online I'd also buy it in a heartbeat 🙂

[NanoRox]

Somehow this turned into it being an issue exclusively with LFS.  Not going to dip my toes in those waters...support the good ones and call the bad ones what they are...bad.

 

As far as an "elitest attitude in the hobby" I don't think it is any different than most.   I rejoined the hobby almost a year ago and have found most people very supportive and willing to help out.  Don't get me wrong, it can be easy to take someone's help and strong opinions as being snooty (and maybe some are) but generally its all about how you receive the info.  I know I have gotten my back up in the past when I get my ego bruised but you have to get over that kind of thing.  

 

The good news is, in time once you get a good understanding of some "universal truths" you can usually just smile and thank the person for the "help" even if you know they are wrong and move on.  :-)  

[seabass]

Let's just face it; if you don't have at least 18,500 posts, you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

 

I'm just kidding of course. 

 

 

 

On our side topic, I feel that local shops should take some queues from some of these in-home frag shacks.  The old business models will have difficulty competing with the new players unless they are willing to make a few changes.  Personally, I don't mind home businesses selling online or at frag swaps; but I'm not really comfortable with them having customers come over.

 

We had a great little shop a few miles from here.  Just the owner, no other employees.  She knew her stuff too.  I probably wouldn't be in the hobby if it wasn't for her.  It was such a plus having direct access to the owner.  I did my best to support her business; but unfortunately she closed up shop years ago.

 

I guess for me, online vendors suit me fine now.  However, when I look back, it was sure nice to have someone to talk to when I was just starting out.

 

12 hours ago, RayWhisperer said:

I also like the ability to “talk shop” face to face with a real person. Form a relationship with these people. You’d be surprised how far that will get you at almost any LFS.

I get that.  I even I miss that.  We have a decent LFS owner; but he's not available all that often.  The other shop owner is less engaging.  Occasionally you get a decent employee, but it seems pretty hit or miss.  You're probably right, but I don't always have the patience for it.

[johnmaloney]

12 hours ago, RayWhisperer said:

 

14 minutes ago, seabass said:

 

We lost a lot of the local fish stores here in the recession. They are starting to come back. We used to have 2-3 per small town, FL has a high concentration of aquarists. Now we are down to one per suburban town, they were the best in each in my opinion. Sad to hear some areas are losing their only LFS though. The online stores need the LFS stores, and I would like to think that it was the online forums and stores especially LiveAquaria that mainstreamed reef tanks in the hobby and helped some LFS expand their selection. That is what the stores that are still here by me did. No more parrotfish and butterflies, yes to Xenia, GSP and then eventually the "designer" stuff etc....  Before the Internet reef forums and online stores were big this was mostly a saltwater hobby, rather than a reef hobby. The hobby itself seems to be in a bit of change from the old online model now. 

[RayWhisperer]

2 hours ago, johnmaloney said:

We lost a lot of the local fish stores here in the recession. They are starting to come back. We used to have 2-3 per small town, FL has a high concentration of aquarists. Now we are down to one per suburban town, they were the best in each in my opinion. Sad to hear some areas are losing their only LFS though. The online stores need the LFS stores, and I would like to think that it was the online forums and stores especially LiveAquaria that mainstreamed reef tanks in the hobby and helped some LFS expand their selection. That is what the stores that are still here by me did. No more parrotfish and butterflies, yes to Xenia, GSP and then eventually the "designer" stuff etc....  Before the Internet reef forums and online stores were big this was mostly a saltwater hobby, rather than a reef hobby. The hobby itself seems to be in a bit of change from the old online model now. 

You’re not wrong. Back when I set up my first reef, there were 18 stores within a short drive of me. Granted, only 7 of them sold reef anything. However, I think the advent of nanos had as much to do with mainstreaming the reef hobby as much as liveaquaria did. There have been alternatives to the LFS as long as I’ve been keeping fish. Back when I was a kid it was Mail Order Pet Shop. They had everything but livestock, and were far cheaper than every LFS. You just had to be willing to wait a week or two to get anything. Liveaquaria certainly played a large part, though. They made reef animals easy, and affordable to get. 

[ReefSafeSolutions]

On 8/3/2018 at 5:36 PM, Sancho said:

Spill the beans.....what shop you talking about? I’m still mourning the loss of Encinitas Tropical fish. 

Reefer's Garage.  I still like going in there, but people on SDreefs sell frags for way less.  I haven't been in for a long time actually, so maybe they raised prices even further.  I've been over to Shipwreck Cove a handful of times but I can't afford them, for sure.  It really is a shame Encinitas Tropical went out.

[Sancho]

3 hours ago, ReefSafeSolutions said:

Reefer's Garage.  I still like going in there, but people on SDreefs sell frags for way less.  I haven't been in for a long time actually, so maybe they raised prices even further.  I've been over to Shipwreck Cove a handful of times but I can't afford them, for sure.  It really is a shame Encinitas Tropical went out.

You just need to negotiate with him a bit. He’s really a great guy and one of the better owners . Prices can be hit or miss, hell he was selling euphylia and acans cheaper than anyone for the longest time. This latest Indo ban had him looking for other suppliers and shit got expensive. Shipwreck has a boner for expensive SPS and doesn’t really get anything in anymore that I’m interested in buying so yeah don’t go there that often. 

 

Tuan at Encinitas tropical was awesome he never gave shitty advice and would tell you straight up when something wasn’t right for your tank or skill level, it’s a shame he wasn’t able to buy the store when the last owners wife pulled the funding. 

 

Im not a fan of buying online just cause shipping is ridiculous and I like to see what I’m buying in person......photoshop can really be deceiving. We’re lucky to live here and have a strong reefing community, anything can be had here between the shops that are still around and the SDReefs members. That and we have AquaSD.......hands down one of the best LFS in the country. 

[johnmaloney]

On 8/5/2018 at 9:28 AM, RayWhisperer said:

You’re not wrong. Back when I set up my first reef, there were 18 stores within a short drive of me. Granted, only 7 of them sold reef anything. However, I think the advent of nanos had as much to do with mainstreaming the reef hobby as much as liveaquaria did. There have been alternatives to the LFS as long as I’ve been keeping fish. Back when I was a kid it was Mail Order Pet Shop. They had everything but livestock, and were far cheaper than every LFS. You just had to be willing to wait a week or two to get anything. Liveaquaria certainly played a large part, though. They made reef animals easy, and affordable to get. 

Around here LA opened people up to corals and they started asking for them at the fish stores. Before then the fish stores got away with just FL items, and coral is protected here. 8 years before that they would sell full liverock from the reef with Florida hard corals on them but little thought was given to caring for the corals. 

 

I remember the mail order magazines. 

[RayWhisperer]

Well, stony corals is a bit of a stretch. What were corals back then were shrooms mostly. The first LPS I ever got was an elegance. That was back when they actually lived. I thought that was the coolest coral on earth. Bright green with purple tips. My sister insisted it wasn’t real, the color seemed so vivid. 

 

As as far as LA influencing people, I’m not really sure. I don’t mean they didn’t. I just mean I didn’t know about LA until about 2003 or 4. Even then, I only heard of it. The first time I actually saw it, was probably about a month before my join date here. I’m resistant to change. 2005 was my first computer, and I still rock an iPhone 3.

[Sancho]

7 minutes ago, RayWhisperer said:

I still rock an iPhone 3.

 and it still works? I’m of the impression Apple turns them into bricks to get you to move up. We had to move up to the 4 at work cause they stopped updating the 3

[RayWhisperer]

It’s not fast, but it works..... Barely.

[ReefSafeSolutions]

I do still like going to Reefer's Garage, it's really a shame the Indo ban screwed everyone over.  I wouldn't go anywhere else for Euphyllia for a long time.  He was selling some legit, albeit 'typical' torches for $10/head.  Prices are still really good, no doubt.  But I usually just feel like his wife doesn't really want me in the store for whatever reason.  Probably just in my head.

 

Tuan was the man.  My dad and I would go and talk to him for hours sometimes, just having a good time.  I wasn't aware the owner's wife pulled funding on the store...last I heard they were going to reopen in Carlsbad somewhere but that must have been a year or two ago...didn't take long to realize that would never really happen.

 

Anymore though, I pretty much stick to SDreefs.  I really dig how everyone on there is just out to hook each other up, no one is trying to get rich on selling their frags.  Except Shipwreck Cove...but I get the feeling they don't see much business.  I've never been in there when anyone other than Dan or his partner are there.

[reefhound]

Wow, what a douche.. 

hate to say it... I have more money in my 7galon tank than I did in my lagoon tank...

[squamptonbc]

I have not found any stores to be this way, other hobbyists yes.

 

My local store will answer questions all day long, they have no issue helping people, nor will they try and sell unnecessary equipment or products, if they feel you don't need something they have no problem saying, hey you really don't need that.

 

Online fish ordering isn't really a thing here, so local fish stores are the go to for fish, corals are a little easier to order online, but shipping at 35-50 make it not so feasible of not ordering a decent amount or a group order to split shipping costs.

 

Ordering fish can be done, but generally requires calling, asking about stock, then arranging airport to airport delivery, sometimes UPS is an option, pay over the phone, wait until a specified shipping day and no way to view the fish before such as how you can with say divers den.

[Clown79]

On 8/11/2018 at 11:59 PM, squamptonbc said:

I have not found any stores to be this way, other hobbyists yes.

 

My local store will answer questions all day long, they have no issue helping people, nor will they try and sell unnecessary equipment or products, if they feel you don't need something they have no problem saying, hey you really don't need that.

 

Online fish ordering isn't really a thing here, so local fish stores are the go to for fish, corals are a little easier to order online, but shipping at 35-50 make it not so feasible of not ordering a decent amount or a group order to split shipping costs.

 

Ordering fish can be done, but generally requires calling, asking about stock, then arranging airport to airport delivery, sometimes UPS is an option, pay over the phone, wait until a specified shipping day and no way to view the fish before such as how you can with say divers den.

Totally agree.

 

I've never had this issue here with any store but other hobbyists, definitely.

 

The industry is completely different here. 

[Rcpilot]

Reefing is an expensive hobby that is funded with expendable money. 

 

RC airplanes are pretty expensive when you get up to the 50cc or larger airframes. ($2,500 to build a ready-to-fly airplane)  Now there's a hobby that's full of elitists... WOWZERS!!!

 

I used to have smaller tanks.  I remember people always assuming I didn't have any money or I didn't know what I was doing because I had smaller tanks.  Peple at the LFS would suggest I needed to upgrade.  I'm thinking, "Yeah... you got a boat payment coming up next week.  I'll bet you'd just love it if I bought a whole new setup today."

 

I just bought a 180g tank.  Sitting around thinking aboutall  the money I'm about to spend on pumps and lights.  😟