MrObscura's Nuvo 10... still reefing.

[MrObscura]

Well, somethings up with my tank. In the past when I lost corals there was an issue I could tie it to. But I have noticed they always do better on the frag rack than the rock. At least sps. Whether I mount them a week after I get them or a month, theyll look great on the rack then struggle after being mounted. 

 

I think despite an upgraded return and a kps at 100% I'm not getting enough flow. Sps polyps simply do not flutter the way I'd like no matter how I aim the pump. And again shortly after mounting a few are struggling. 

 

I think I might need to add a second wave maker. Perhaps it's a result of a cube with tight rock work.

 

Theres just no other reason I can pin point. Params are all stable. Alk has been 8.3-8.7  since the new corals were introduced with no more than a .2 variation within 24 hours. If more flow fails to turn things around I'll have no choice but to send a icp test in because theres no other apparent reason the tank shouldn't be thriving at this point.

[MrObscura]

Me too lol

[A.m.P]

Corals are weird animals.

[MrObscura]

Its weird how some people can have success without really even trying, in that they dont worry about params, or test much, have what others would consider inadequate light/flow, low/high nutrients, etc.

 

And others despite doing everything "right" struggle to create a thriving tank.

[mitten_reef]

I won’t be too concerned about polyp extension under the light. What are all the “right” things that you’re doing, other than the stable alk?  How is your chemical filtration/nutrient export? Could it be too aggressive?

My acro polyps hardly ever come out during light hours, but I have really good PE in the dark. Have you checked in early morning and late evening? I did notice that I got better daytime PE under the T5 (vs LED), for the brief 2 weeks or so that I ran it.  

 

If you’re referring to your new RAP pick ups, they may need some more time to adjust themselves to the new location. 

[MrObscura]

These are my params

Alk 8.4 target with only a couple tenths deviation.

Cal 475

Mag 1400

No3 16

Po4 0.06

 

I run no chemical filtration other than carbon a week out of each month.

 

As for polyp extension. It's not that I get none, I do but they dont seem to have the movement from flow that the should.

 

I get corals needing a bit of time to perk up and settle in. But for some reason after I mount sps they start losing flesh at the base or the tips. And like I said, it doesn't seem to happened on the rack, whether they're on there for a week or a month, but will start almost immediately after being mounted. Two of my new Montis are dying off, a bit of the green slimer has died at the base, and the Oregon tort has lost flesh on a couple tips. They're all in areas that were getting less flow than the frags that seem to be doing better, so that's why I think flow might be the problem. 

 

That or some contaminant and timing of issues is just coincidental. I might just start running carbon 24/7, just for peace of mind. 

 

[MrObscura]

Just I case anyone wants to throw in their two cents here's a couple pics of what happens. 

 

A few coralites will suddenly lose some flesh and then the coral will stn to death or one day just rtn. You can see it clearly on the oregon torts tips and the green slimer has started near the base.  

 

Parameters just in case...

Alk 8.4 target and stable within a couple tenths.

Cal 475

Mag 1400

No3 runs between 16-24ppm

Po4 runs 0.04-0.08

Ph runs around 7.8-8.0 Peak

Salinity 1.026

Temp 78-79 occasionally hits 80

 

And equipment in case the OP isn't read...

 

AI prime running an hour ramp to 100% blues and violets with red, green, white at 10% for 4 hours, followed by 7 hours of just the blues and violets.

 

Flow is provided by a 326gph mighty jet return with RFG nozzle and an Aquami KPS running random mode 100%.(this is recent to increase flow, before that it was variable between 5%-100%).

 

[MrObscura]

I'm at a lose. I've lost 2 batches of sps in the past but there were issues with the tank that I could point to. But now with similar symptoms appearing despite everything seeming to be in check...idk

 

Other corals struggle on and off but not as severely. Like I mentioned above the only thing I can think of is a contaminant. I'm going to start running carbon all the time just in case and go from there.

[mitten_reef]

1 hour ago, MrObscura said:

Just I case anyone wants to throw in their two cents here's a couple pics of what happens. 

 

A few coralites will suddenly lose some flesh and then the coral will stn to death or one day just rtn. You can see it clearly on the oregon torts tips and the green slimer has started near the base.  

 

Losing flesh from handling could be expected. But to not recover, then get worse and turn to stn/rtn is pretty concerning. Most of my frags usually recover from handling damage within a few days.  I know nothing about phosphate level in my tank, cuz I don’t measure it. but isn’t 0.6 pretty high, commonly seen 0.0X range for phosphate cited as good, with 0.1 being upper limit. 

 

 

[MrObscura]

1 hour ago, mitten_reef said:

Losing flesh from handling could be expected. But to not recover, then get worse and turn to stn/rtn is pretty concerning. Most of my frags usually recover from handling damage within a few days.  I know nothing about phosphate level in my tank, cuz I don’t measure it. but isn’t 0.6 pretty high, commonly seen 0.0X range for phosphate cited as good, with 0.1 being upper limit. 

 

 

That was a typo. My most recent reading was 0.06

[MrObscura]

Well, I'm in the middle of my weekly waterchange routine and just tested all my parameters.

Alk 8.5

Cal 465

Mag 1400

No3 24ppm

Por 0.08

Salinity 1.026

Temp 78.9

PH 8.0

 

Everything is right within my targeted range and has been, so at this point it has to be some sort of contaminant. Or a lighting and/or flow issue, but I'm not leaning towards that since the symptoms dont suggest it and on top of that people have had success with sps using my same light and pump setup in other nuvo 10s and even larger tanks.

 

I'm going to do my waterchange and start running carbon all the time and see what happens.

[MrObscura]

Just an observation... my princess peach which hasn't been displaying much polyp extension is suddenly displaying noticeable PE. So maybe the carbon is removing something that's been bothering my corals.

[Tamberav]

I run a small amount of carbon all the time as a precaution.

 

Is it possible you have very very low # of dino left over that could be difficult to be seen? They release toxins (which the carbon would take care of). I had a very small amount left over in my 25g even when nutrients were around yours, such a small amount that it wasn't obvious. The dino was only effecting certain corals, encrusting corals especially (I don't have much sps in there so can't comment on that). I ended up putting a IM UV in the back chamber which took care of all my problems.

 

Just tossing out ideas. 

[MrObscura]

I know I've only been running carbon a day but the corals are getting worse. At this point I dont know what to do. I've tried to remain optimistic through the ups and downs, but now I'm kind of feeling like this attempt at reefing is a failure. 

 

I dont want to throw in the towel, but I cant keep throwing away hundreds of dollars.

 

You can see the tips of the disney on the right are starting to go now and the tort and slimer have gotten worse.

 

[mitten_reef]

13 minutes ago, MrObscura said:

I know I've only been running carbon a day but the corals are getting worse. At this point I dont know what to do. I've tried to remain optimistic through the ups and downs, but now I'm kind of feeling like this attempt at reefing is a failure. 

 

I dont want to throw in the towel, but I cant keep throwing away hundreds of dollars.

 

You can see the tips of the disney on the right are starting to go now and the tort and slimer have gotten worse.

 

Research topic on alk-related tip burns.  High alk, and low nutrients will burn tips from acros. I know all of your parameters are reading ok (really good actually). But what if the alk readings have been incorrect?  

[MrObscura]

I dont think alk is off. Its reading consistently and I've compared my hanna to my red sea and have gotten the same results. 

 

I also know my salt mixes to 8.4 so with it would make sense that my tanks around there.

 

Plus the slimer is losing tissue at the base. Theres no rhyme or reason to it. And no apparent cause.  I just dont get it.

 

[hinnenkm]

On 11/1/2019 at 9:17 PM, MrObscura said:

Well, I'm in the middle of my weekly waterchange routine and just tested all my parameters.

Alk 8.5

Cal 465

Mag 1400

No3 24ppm

Por 0.08

Salinity 1.026

Temp 78.9

PH 8.0

 

Everything is right within my targeted range and has been, so at this point it has to be some sort of contaminant. Or a lighting and/or flow issue, but I'm not leaning towards that since the symptoms dont suggest it and on top of that people have had success with sps using my same light and pump setup in other nuvo 10s and even larger tanks.

 

I'm going to do my waterchange and start running carbon all the time and see what happens.

Check all of your equipment and magnets because I and a couple of other people have had things rust out and that can cause a lot of damage to corals. I checked through everything and it turns out that the impeller in my skimmer pump had rusted..... 

[mitten_reef]

Going back a couple of pages. It seems that your issues arose every time you transferred frags from rack to rocks. (I know you mentioned that already in this last round too). 

 

Is it possible that there’s something happening during your transfer process that is upsetting the frags, toxic glue, containers etc?  

 

Like you’ve said, the frags all have done so well IN the tank up until transfer time. Then deteriorate quickly. Still would check for rusty parts. 

[Tamberav]

I was going to say leave them on the frag rack for a month or two to adjust. Idk if these were grown under LED... t5... or what but if something is bothering them, placing them at the top of the rock directly under a prime could cause more stress. 

[MrObscura]

I have left frags on the rack for a month and the same thing happened. 

 

As for the lighting, if anything I was worried about too little light. None of them should be getting more than 250-300 par max. And wouldn't I see some bleaching before straight up tissue loss? But idk.

 

As for mounting procedure I wear gloves and try to touch the coral as little as possible. I snip off the bottom of the plug and add some super glue gel and two little fishies epoxy to the bottom of it and mount as quickly as possible.

 

I also thought about something rusting but I dont have much equipment. Just the IM return pump and my aquami kps. I did check the magnets on the kps and they look good.

 

I appreciate all the suggestions.

[Tamberav]

What about testing for stray voltage? 

[MrObscura]

40 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

What about testing for stray voltage? 

I have thought about that, but haven't tested for it. I dont have a voltage meter.

 

I think I might just buy a grounding probe and send in an icp test just to rule out stray voltage and to see if an icp test points to anything. 

[Tamberav]

1 hour ago, MrObscura said:

I have thought about that, but haven't tested for it. I dont have a voltage meter.

 

I think I might just buy a grounding probe and send in an icp test just to rule out stray voltage and to see if an icp test points to anything. 

You should replace any faulty equipment which you won't know from a probe alone. A voltage meter is pretty cheap, I should probably pick one up for myself too!

 

Is a probe safe without a gfci plugs?

[MrObscura]

I dont think that's accurate about a grounding probe. Two prongs are plastic and just the ground is metal. It simply gives any stray current there may be in the tank a way out. You'd get shocked without one if something is leaking voltage. Plenty of people appear to use them just as a precaution.

 

I just figured for about the same price as a voltage meter I could just get a proble and cover stray voltage for good.

 

Though I'm pretty sure that's not the problem. People seem to be 50/50 on whether or not a little stray voltage(short of actually feeling a shock)wouldd actually cause issues and theres only 3 pieces of equipment that could leak voltage. The return, a neotherm heater which has held temp consistently for over a year and is fully sealed plastic, and my kps pump which has been replaced once already.

 

One way or the other I'll address it just to rule it out though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MrObscura]

On a side note I've been going back and forth on what I want to do with my 55 gallon. It started as a backwater discus experiment. Which failed and now all that's in there is a school of tetras.

 

I was debating between going wild type Angel fish or turning it into a peacock cichlid tank. But now I think once I get my issues ironed out and corals growing and thriving in the nuvo I'll turn the 55 into a reef sometime down the line. It wont be for a long while, but it's something to look forward to.

 

But now first things first... time to order an icp test.