Rain24 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Rain's Reef JarA Pico Reef Project Inception: February 20, 2017Thread Start: February 27, 2017"The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea." - Isak Dinesen May 6, 2017 April 9, 2017 March 28, 2017 March 12, 2017 Initial Thoughts February seems like the time of the year I wander back into Nano Reef. Years ago, I had the old Oceanic Biocube 14 before and that ended in bryopsis, flatworms, and an early demise from a very hot summer. Fast forward four years and I find myself in a new city with a new place and hankering for a little bit of reef again. Of course I pop back into Nano-Reef just to see what's new, and there's ReHype with a new tank build. So I decide to read that and poke around a bit more. Oh look, gena's dropoff tank! Oh hey...while I'm here, let me check the pico threads. That's what led me to natalia's reef bowl thread. I spent an entire day devouring her thread, reading up on reef bowls and reef jars. After fighting with my old Biocube, I now want something simple, easy to maintain, and lights that can grow LPS and SPS. After bouncing around in other people's threads (sorry Lula Mae), Weetie suggested starting up my own thread. So, here we go again! I'm planning on a two gallon reef jar or bowl modeled on natalia's simple setup. Grand Plans Equipment: 2 gallon cookie jar Airline with Air pump Check valve for airline tubing Airline Control Valve Tuna Blue Par 38 Old floor lamp Heater - using my old Hydor Theo 50W Finnex temp controller Thermometer - old glass thermometer Sand - used about 2 pounds, purchased 5 pounds Live Rock - purchased 2 pounds Other things to buy: New test kits Peroxide - purchased Lugol's or some other reef dip Now where did these go? (A.K.A. "old equipment still boxed up somewhere"): Sybon Refractometer - found Extra Hydor Theo 50w for water changes - found Old Biocube stock pump for water changes - found, but dead (3) Timers (2) 5 gallon buckets - purchased 3 new ones Measuring cup - found Turkey Baster - found Forceps - found, RUSTY! DIY Precision Pico Siphon Stocking Plans Pom Pom Crab, Lybia tessellata Snails - not sure what type yet, something small and doesn't knock over too many things Scarlet Reef Hermit Crabs? Hitchhikers Stomatella snail - "Benjamin" Ball anemone (Corynactis) - "The Thing" Inhabitants Astraea snail - "Herbert" (April 8, 2017) Corals Seriatopora hystrix, Pink Bird's Nest coral - March 27, 2017 Euphyllia ancora, 'Splatter' Hammer coral - March 27, 2017 Pocillopora damicornis - March 27, 2017 (free) Blastomussa merleti "Superman" (red with blue center) - April 8, 2017 (free) Blastomussa (neon green) - April 8, 2017 (free - nicknamed 'Experiment One') Wish list: acans and zoas Tank Journal March 5, 2017 - got some live rock and SW circulating in a bucket March 6 - 7, 2017 - manually adjusting the heater temps in the bucket March 12, 2017 - added sand and live rock into jar, hitchhiker is alive! March 19 - 28, 2017 - new hitchhiker, new corals and a love sick snail. April 2, 2017 - identified dinoflagellates in the jar, fragged off affected parts from bird's nest and pocillopora. April 5-7, 2017 - lights out to help with algae problem April 9, 2017 - new astrea and two blastomussas. May 6, 2017 - new acan and new zoa. 8 Quote Link to comment
SeaFurn Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Yay! Awesome you are joining the reef bowl club! Natalia has a bunch of us groupies now! I can't wait to see how yours develops! Following! 2 Quote Link to comment
natalia_la_loca Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Yay February is major tank obsession time for me too. It's a winter thing. 2 Quote Link to comment
Lula_Mae Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Come to think of it, my best tank efforts have begun in/around February LOL. That's so funny! Following along! Oh, and you're free to bounce around in my thread any time! I tend to be a bit chatty lol 2 Quote Link to comment
Weetabix7 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Hooraaaay!!!!! Such a tease tho, upstaged by dinner..... Oh, and I LOVE that quote at the top!! 2 Quote Link to comment
natalia_la_loca Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Just now, SeaFurn said: groupies 1 Quote Link to comment
Weetabix7 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 This thread may help with some of your questions about dips: I made it a few years back and I don't know if all the meds referenced are still available, but a lot of the info is still relevant, and FW dips and lugol's dips are discussed. 2 Quote Link to comment
Rain24 Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 3 hours ago, SeaFurn said: Yay! Awesome you are joining the reef bowl club! Natalia has a bunch of us groupies now! I can't wait to see how yours develops! Following! Hang on, we're still in the imagination/planning phase. But yes, I am a groupie. Woohoo!!! Thanks for following! 3 hours ago, natalia_la_loca said: Yay February is major tank obsession time for me too. It's a winter thing. Is that what it is? A winter thing? You're probably right. I was out on a peer trying to stare at eel grass and rocks just to get some kind-of-saltwater fix. LOL. 3 hours ago, Lula_Mae said: Come to think of it, my best tank efforts have begun in/around February LOL. That's so funny! Following along! Oh, and you're free to bounce around in my thread any time! I tend to be a bit chatty lol I like chatty! As you can tell, I am also chatty! Thanks for the follow! Let's hope this dream becomes water at some point. 3 hours ago, Weetabix7 said: Hooraaaay!!!!! Such a tease tho, upstaged by dinner..... Oh, and I LOVE that quote at the top!! Thanks for the link on dips! I'm going to read that too. Oh yeah, I was starving, so writing up my imaginary plans had to wait. Glad you like the quote, it totally resonates for me. 2 Quote Link to comment
Rain24 Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 BRAINDUMP Updated my first post with more details last night. Pretty sure my art group today was like "please stop talking about your imaginary reef." These are some notes and questions I have to research myself or see if anyone has answers they'd like to share. And partly me just talking to myself. LOL. If I don't write these things down, I'll forgot. Above all - K.I.S.S. Can I really skip cycling if I get a nice piece of live rock? Or will that just make me want to pull my hair out with possible pests later? Can this be as easy as buy salt water from the LFS, getting a premium piece of LR the same day, carry it home in a bucket of water and start up the jar that day? Maybe it's advisable to start from dry rock? Can I have a pom pom crab? There's a lot of H2O2 use in reef jars for algae control - not sure about their sensitivity to peroxide treatments. What about snails? Will they survive peroxide treatments? Shrimp and peroxide? Sexies might have to be a no if I have zoas. Need to check if they munch on acans or maybe acans munch on them. How much sand will I need? A thin layer? Barebottom? Is it still a pound of rock per gallon? What type of test kits will I need? API Reef Master? Need to research types of snails - small ones that are good cleaners. Read up on tank cleaning/water changes for reef bowls. Look up dosing and see if I need it (I'm hoping not since I want to keep this simple). Read up on feeding (see notes on natalia's feeding schedule). Make a list of corals I might want. 2 Quote Link to comment
Lula_Mae Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 47 minutes ago, Rain24 said: BRAINDUMP Updated my first post with more details last night. Pretty sure my art group today was like "please stop talking about your imaginary reef." These are some notes and questions I have to research myself or see if anyone has answers they'd like to share. And partly me just talking to myself. LOL. If I don't write these things down, I'll forgot. Above all - K.I.S.S. Can I really skip cycling if I get a nice piece of live rock? Or will that just make me want to pull my hair out with possible pests later? Can this be as easy as buy salt water from the LFS, getting a premium piece of LR the same day, carry it home in a bucket of water and start up the jar that day? Maybe it's advisable to start from dry rock? Can I have a pom pom crab? There's a lot of H2O2 use in reef jars for algae control - not sure about their sensitivity to peroxide treatments. What about snails? Will they survive peroxide treatments? Shrimp and peroxide? Sexies might have to be a no if I have zoas. Need to check if they munch on acans or maybe acans munch on them. How much sand will I need? A thin layer? Barebottom? Is it still a pound of rock per gallon? What type of test kits will I need? API Reef Master? Need to research types of snails - small ones that are good cleaners. Read up on tank cleaning/water changes for reef bowls. Look up dosing and see if I need it (I'm hoping not since I want to keep this simple). Read up on feeding (see notes on natalia's feeding schedule). Make a list of corals I might want. If you get a nice piece that is cycled, and you carry it home in water, then you may well not see much, if any, cycle. That's what I did for my first 5.5--showed up with some small paint buckets from Lowe's and asked to put the rocks in water lol. I still waited about three weeks before adding coral to be sure but it was fine. One piece of that rock had hitchhiker clam thingies and two types of hitchhiking coral, and sprouted sargassum from a little brown nub! It was awesome lol. Yes on the pom pom. Peroxide is generally used as a spot treatment--you don't want to dunk your entire rock in peroxide because that will pretty much kill everything including your beneficial bacteria lol. Plus, the 35% stuff is caustic enough that you will want to avoid touching it to anything you want to live. I personally would pull the rock out, spot treat with peroxide, rinse super well, and put back in tank. If using it on the glass to combat algae there, just use a paper towel or something with peroxide in it (be sure not to touch bare handed). As long as you always rinse well before putting stuff back in, I expect you would be ok, but someone who has more experience than me using peroxide should confirm. (Same goes with shrimp and peroxide--just avoid contact with the peroxide). Sand is up to you. I put a thin layer in case I decided to take it out but I do like running bare bottom. As long as you clean the sand regularly you're probably fine with whatever but I think deeper sand beds turn into detritus traps. I think it is still 1~ lb/gallon but I have no idea how much my rock weighs lol. I don't own any test kits so I am no help here lol. I have 1 nass snail to stir the sand and a couple dwarf ceriths from Reef Cleaners. I'd like a few more dwarf ceriths and maybe another nass. Not sure I'll add any larger snails than that. I do recommend Reef Cleaners (although in my next order I will request they please try to make sure none of the snails are hermits in disguise! ). I think a lot of people dose a little C-Balance or something similar as it seems to be beneficial to these tiny tanks. I haven't gotten mine yet but hope to soon. Those are the questions I'm able to answer lol Hope it's some help! 2 Quote Link to comment
natalia_la_loca Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I would just use dry rock. My cycle took about a week and a half with Zeobak and a couple drops of pure ammonia. Not that long in the grand scheme of things, and no pests. Really, though, this is a matter of preference. snails are ok with peroxide. Don't get it directly on them. i use a thin layer of sand. No idea on amount of live rock. I just put in what seemed enough to provide a good base for corals. i don't own any test kits. Trochus snails are a great all-around algae cleaner. I've had the same two for almost the whole time I've had the reefbowl. You probably won't need to do any dosing. Quote Link to comment
SeaFurn Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Great list! I love the planning and scheming part too! I think the amount of rock you use will be somewhat dependent on your bowl and it's shape as will the scape. I bought 3lbs of rock but probably only used 2. And your scape will be somewhat dependent on what type of corals you want. If you build too high there won't be much room to grow upward. I had some pretty steep scapes at first but went with one that is much flatter with one higher peak. I'm completely speculating here but I bet it's closer to 1/2 to 3/4 of a pound of rock/gallon in reef bowls. I have dry rock. I got spooked doing research on this site as to all the bad stuff that can come with live rock and not knowing much about how to deal with that led me to dry rock. But now I have a small frag of zoas that came on a little bit of live rock and there are these tiny little filter feeders on them (have no idea what they are) and that makes me wish I would have gone with live rock and taken my chances. It's so much more interesting. I bought 5 lbs of sand and maybe used 1 lb in the bowl. It's 1/2" deep or so but it's hard to see that because my bowl is mostly round at the bottom. I like how sand looks and figured there would be more bacteria in the bowl. I completely blast it all with the turkey baster just prior to siphoning out the water each week. Test kits - I have the RS Marine Care kits. And I just got Salifert CA and MG kits. Thought I'd start learning where those params are during the week in between water changes. You'll probably want to get a temperature controller and start thinking how you'll get the wires/tubes into your bowl under the lid. Exciting times! Quote Link to comment
Rain24 Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 On 2/28/2017 at 5:39 PM, Lula_Mae said: Sand is up to you. I put a thin layer in case I decided to take it out but I do like running bare bottom. As long as you clean the sand regularly you're probably fine with whatever but I think deeper sand beds turn into detritus traps. I think it is still 1~ lb/gallon but I have no idea how much my rock weighs lol. I don't own any test kits so I am no help here lol. Thank you for all your replies! I've been busy trying to get this reef jar going. I think I'm going to try to run it bare bottom after I wait a few weeks on the rocks to see how they do. I'm still amazed that test kits aren't truly necessary if I'm going by the answers so far. I'm going to try to get along without them for now and see how I do. On 2/28/2017 at 6:00 PM, natalia_la_loca said: I would just use dry rock. My cycle took about a week and a half with Zeobak and a couple drops of pure ammonia. Not that long in the grand scheme of things, and no pests. Really, though, this is a matter of preference. snails are ok with peroxide. Don't get it directly on them. i use a thin layer of sand. No idea on amount of live rock. I just put in what seemed enough to provide a good base for corals. i don't own any test kits. Trochus snails are a great all-around algae cleaner. I've had the same two for almost the whole time I've had the reefbowl. You probably won't need to do any dosing. Thanks, Natalia for taking the time to answer my musings. I'm going to try to be brave and not test anything. I decided to go with LR from the store - nothing fancy, no coralline or anything, so I'm going to wait a few weeks and make sure there aren't any bugs before I put them in my jar. On 2/28/2017 at 6:13 PM, SeaFurn said: Great list! I love the planning and scheming part too! I think the amount of rock you use will be somewhat dependent on your bowl and it's shape as will the scape. I bought 3lbs of rock but probably only used 2. And your scape will be somewhat dependent on what type of corals you want. If you build too high there won't be much room to grow upward. I had some pretty steep scapes at first but went with one that is much flatter with one higher peak. I'm completely speculating here but I bet it's closer to 1/2 to 3/4 of a pound of rock/gallon in reef bowls. I have dry rock. I got spooked doing research on this site as to all the bad stuff that can come with live rock and not knowing much about how to deal with that led me to dry rock. But now I have a small frag of zoas that came on a little bit of live rock and there are these tiny little filter feeders on them (have no idea what they are) and that makes me wish I would have gone with live rock and taken my chances. It's so much more interesting. I bought 5 lbs of sand and maybe used 1 lb in the bowl. It's 1/2" deep or so but it's hard to see that because my bowl is mostly round at the bottom. I like how sand looks and figured there would be more bacteria in the bowl. I completely blast it all with the turkey baster just prior to siphoning out the water each week. Test kits - I have the RS Marine Care kits. And I just got Salifert CA and MG kits. Thought I'd start learning where those params are during the week in between water changes. You'll probably want to get a temperature controller and start thinking how you'll get the wires/tubes into your bowl under the lid. Exciting times! Weetie convinced me to get some live rock just in case I want to start. If I don't...they're just rocks, right? LOL. Thank you for replying. I'm definitely taking notes. And don't worry - a temp controller is on my list of things to get. 2 Quote Link to comment
Weetabix7 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Hoooraaay, you got rocks!!! 1 Quote Link to comment
Rain24 Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 Just now, Weetabix7 said: Hoooraaay, you got rocks!!! I have never been so excited to bring home rocks before. LOL!!! 3 Quote Link to comment
Lula_Mae Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Yay rocks!!! And yeah, if you're patient, no test kits should usually be ok, though they're always useful to have if needed, I guess lol. 2 Quote Link to comment
Rain24 Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 Just now, Lula_Mae said: Yay rocks!!! And yeah, if you're patient, no test kits should usually be ok, though they're always useful to have if needed, I guess lol. It's not super-exciting/colorful LR, but I liked the way this one piece looked so I brought it home. It is now in 2 or 3 pieces. But I don't mind. I have a jar too, and I dug out some of my equipment and my old BC14 stand which is where the reef jar will go. I just have to remember how to add pics to my posts. It has been THAT long. Let's see here... 4 Quote Link to comment
Lula_Mae Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Rock has potential! Isn't it exciting when things start coming together? 2 Quote Link to comment
SeaFurn Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Exciting! Let's see the jar! 1 Quote Link to comment
Rain24 Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 14 minutes ago, Lula_Mae said: Rock has potential! Isn't it exciting when things start coming together? I'm excited and a little nervous, but mostly excited!!! 11 minutes ago, SeaFurn said: Exciting! Let's see the jar! Right! Requisite empty jar photo in 3...2...1... 6 Quote Link to comment
SeaFurn Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Awesome! I about got the same one! Quote Link to comment
Weetabix7 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 It is a jar of great potential, and that rock has some nice nooks and crannies. Nice little innocent rock, just sitting there being all wet and quiet and low impact. And full of potential. 3 Quote Link to comment
Rain24 Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 14 hours ago, Weetabix7 said: It is a jar of great potential, and that rock has some nice nooks and crannies. Nice little innocent rock, just sitting there being all wet and quiet and low impact. And full of potential. Haha...yes, it's all innocent in its bucket. Nothing to see here. Here is a pic of one of the tanks from a store I went to yesterday. What are all those things growing around the mushrooms? Are they bad? The mushrooms are kind of pretty but seem to grow too large for my little jar. 1 Quote Link to comment
brandon429 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 those are typical fish store hitchhiker invaders that must be cleaned surgically off any frags before you take some home, and then also removed from the rock when they show up anyway, as part of hand guiding a pico reef to no invasion. (lift up life rock, scrape off, put peroxide as a dropper on the scraped area, contact no corals w it) Natalia shows how to garden a bowl, we do not permit an invader though we may work regularly to disallow them depending on variables. its bowl gardening just like we do for dandelions experiment with this n that, but in the end simple disallowance is why her corals outnumber invaders. when a tuning is found she w be dealing with algae less as a spot treatment. Your pic above shows exactly how invaders get to our tanks, when a bowl is full and stocking stops, and hand guiding has been consistent, they run with little work for the rest of their time. 1 Quote Link to comment
Rain24 Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 5 minutes ago, brandon429 said: those are typical fish store hitchhiker invaders that must be cleaned surgically off any frags before you take some home, and then also removed from the rock when they show up anyway, as part of hand guiding a pico reef to no invasion. (lift up life rock, scrape off, put peroxide as a dropper on the scraped area, contact no corals w it) Natalia shows how to garden a bowl, we do not permit an invader though we may work regularly to disallow them depending on variables. its bowl gardening just like we do for dandelions experiment with this n that, but in the end simple disallowance is why her corals outnumber invaders. when a tuning is found she w be dealing with algae less as a spot treatment. Your pic above shows exactly how invaders get to our tanks, when a bowl is full and stocking stops, and hand guiding has been consistent, they run with little work for the rest of their time. Thanks for your insight, Brandon. I'm rusty at reefing since its been a few years and this reef jar is completely different from my old 14g. I'm trying to figure out when I should peroxide and scrape frag plugs once I get them home. Do I try to acclimate the temp first by floating the bag and then take the frag out and treat it? Rinse, then put it in the jar? Quote Link to comment
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