The Seahorse Club!

[Felicia]

Yeha I have read about panacur and also that it is some pretty harsh stuff and although the horses are fine with it a lot of other inverts snails and corals are not, I am pretty sure I read that most gorgs and sponges could not handle the pancur treatment, After reading all the stories, I will only use this as a lest ditch effort in an emergency. Any other ideas? Did you do any preventative on the gorgs and corals in your tank?

Yeah, that's the risk with pancur. Its fine with most macros, but for corals and inverts its a risk. With the larger seahorses, hydroids aren't a risk so I haven't had to do anything special to avoid introducing them. I just dip my corals in Revive like I would for the main tank, although I don't dip gorgonians or sponges.

[discus513]

I wonder if a freshwater dip would hurt the gorgs or sponges, has anyone ever tried that? or are we the only two people on this thread? LOL

[Felicia]

I wonder if a freshwater dip would hurt the gorgs or sponges, has anyone ever tried that? or are we the only two people on this thread? LOL

Hmmm, I honestly don't know because I haven't tried a FW dip with either gorgs or sponges. Everyone else with seahorses seems to be a bit MIA right now.

[dixie reefer]

My little Delilah chilling out by her feeding dish. Anyone else use a feeding station for their ponies?

 

 

 

[discus513]

Nice house Dixie, she's beautiful. I don't use a feeding dish but I doubt it would work for my dwarfs, it seems like a good idea though

[dixie reefer]

She eats so much more now that I've started using it, and during the day she will sit there and just stare at the shell like food will magically appear.

[Maniu]

All that talk about preventive care and steps to provide healthy environment for DSHs really makes me rethink setting up my pico with them in mind. And regular seahorses are def too much for 7g tank (12x12). But I have to say, amazing creatures with so much personality. Amazing tanks everyone

[Zia]

My little Delilah chilling out by her feeding dish. Anyone else use a feeding station for their ponies?

 

Fun picture! Glad to see she's doing well. Do you plan on adding another at any point?

[dixie reefer]

Fun picture! Glad to see she's doing well. Do you plan on adding another at any point?

 

Yes, after I get my seahorse tank set up after Christmas, I plan on adding one or two females. I want a yellow and an orange if I can get Chris to find me one.

[Zia]

Yes, after I get my seahorse tank set up after Christmas, I plan on adding one or two females. I want a yellow and an orange if I can get Chris to find me one.

Wait, this isnt your seahorse tank Lucky gal, what will that make 5 tanks in all

[dixie reefer]

Wait, this isnt your seahorse tank Lucky gal, what will that make 5 tanks in all

 

Lol no I'm wanting to get a 29 tall for the seahorse tank and probably make this a sump for it.

[Fence13]

I've spent the last two days reading everything I can find about seahorses and this thread has been amazing to look over.

 

Do the 29g biocubes work well? I have an old 27g cube from marineland that's been sitting in the garage. It's rather tall at 20"W x 18"D x 20"H but I wasn't sure on its practical use for a pair of seahorses.

[Felicia]

I've spent the last two days reading everything I can find about seahorses and this thread has been amazing to look over.

 

Do the 29g biocubes work well? I have an old 27g cube from marineland that's been sitting in the garage. It's rather tall at 20"W x 18"D x 20"H but I wasn't sure on its practical use for a pair of seahorses.

Sorry for not answering sooner! I've been really busy and not on N-R for the last couple days.

 

To answer your question, I think the 29 gallon biocube would work great. If you want to check out my thread, I have a 30 gallon cube tank with those same dimensions that I converted to an AIO, sort of like a Biocube just without the hood.

[JLynn]

Yeah, I have seen nice SH setups with 29g biocubes, but I warn you that you will need to make some modifications to it, like covering the intakes with mesh so they don't hook their tails around one of the little bars and get stuck. The marineland 27g could also work at a stretch; you would be overstocked by two gallons, so you would need to be sure to have a good skimmer and you would really need to have a sump at that point to make up for the bio load, but it would be fine otherwise. Speaking of overstocked, Felicia, are you aware of how overstocked your cube is? The stocking rule for large seahorses is one pair per thirty gallons... It should be fine while they are still young, but when they are fully grown you will probably run into some issues. Just wanted to warn you about that. Have you considered setting up a second tank for a pair of them when they are fully grown? On a different note, your tank has turned out really well!

 

Bit of a non-sequitur, but unfortunately I am having to ditch my plans for the 120g for the time being. Reality hit me over the head while I was looking at colleges a few weeks ago and I realized that there was no way I could keep that tank in two years when I go to college. So I have to downgrade my plans to a 35g cube for the time being. Maybe once I am through with college I will be able to pick up where I left off on my dream tank! On the other hand, this means that my tank is small enough for a mame overflow!!! So I will have 1 pair of H. Barbouri and either a pair of bluestripe pipefish or a pair of assessors. To replace the seagrass, either Chlorodesmis or Ricordea Florida will cover the tank bottom. Chlorodesmis will give me a nice golf lawn look, but Ricordea eats mysis which means that it would eat all the mysis the seahorses didn't that fell to the bottom- a major bonus, in my opinion. Plus Ricordea would give the bottom an almost tie-dyed look, which depending on your point of view could be either a benefit or a burden.

[Zia]

Yeah, I have seen nice SH setups with 29g biocubes, but I warn you that you will need to make some modifications to it, like covering the intakes with mesh so they don't hook their tails around one of the little bars and get stuck. The marineland 27g could also work at a stretch; you would be overstocked by two gallons, so you would need to be sure to have a good skimmer and you would really need to have a sump at that point to make up for the bio load, but it would be fine otherwise. Speaking of overstocked, Felicia, are you aware of how overstocked your cube is? The stocking rule for large seahorses is one pair per thirty gallons... It should be fine while they are still young, but when they are fully grown you will probably run into some issues. Just wanted to warn you about that. Have you considered setting up a second tank for a pair of them when they are fully grown? On a different note, your tank has turned out really well!

 

Bit of a non-sequitur, but unfortunately I am having to ditch my plans for the 120g for the time being. Reality hit me over the head while I was looking at colleges a few weeks ago and I realized that there was no way I could keep that tank in two years when I go to college. So I have to downgrade my plans to a 35g cube for the time being. Maybe once I am through with college I will be able to pick up where I left off on my dream tank! On the other hand, this means that my tank is small enough for a mame overflow!!! So I will have 1 pair of H. Barbouri and either a pair of bluestripe pipefish or a pair of assessors. To replace the seagrass, either Chlorodesmis or Ricordea Florida will cover the tank bottom. Chlorodesmis will give me a nice golf lawn look, but Ricordea eats mysis which means that it would eat all the mysis the seahorses didn't that fell to the bottom- a major bonus, in my opinion. Plus Ricordea would give the bottom an almost tie-dyed look, which depending on your point of view could be either a benefit or a burden.

 

That's what great about this thread, is putting some of the outdated seahorse keeping info to rest. Minimum gallons definitely play a role in keeping seahorses, no doubt. IMO 28-30g is min for the first pair. With the emphasis being on the height of the display more than length. But the amount of filtration that system has will ultimately determine how many additional ponies can be kept after the first pair. Having the proper CUC and running a skimmer, carbon, other filtration media etc.. along with frequent water changes will allow a 30g to easily hold more than just a pair.

[Felicia]

Speaking of overstocked, Felicia, are you aware of how overstocked your cube is? The stocking rule for large seahorses is one pair per thirty gallons... It should be fine while they are still young, but when they are fully grown you will probably run into some issues. Just wanted to warn you about that. Have you considered setting up a second tank for a pair of them when they are fully grown? On a different note, your tank has turned out really well!

That is what I originally thought and was only planning to have one pair originally, but I spoke a bunch with Pete Giwojna at Ocean Rider and he believes that for H. Erectus, my tank can very comfortably house 2 pairs in terms of space as long as I have the biological filtration to keep up with them. I have been doing water changes once a week and I run a skimmer, media rack, and reactors with carbon and GFO plus having lots of macro algaes to fix nutrients, so the water quality is no problem with the 4 seahorses. Also, with the large numbers of gorgonians, sponges, and macro algaes there are tons of hitching posts for them so they can all have their own space/territory when they want with no issues.

[Felicia]

An additional interesting note on stocking density of seahorses.

 

The following is an article on seahorse.org, written by christopher burns, and published in the Feb 2001 FAMA magazine.

Maintaining seahorses presents a very special dilemma not found in the husbandry of most other marine species, namely, the dreaded "stocking density vs. tank volume quandary." I cannot tell you how often I am asked, "How many horses can I keep in a XX-gallon tank?" Unfortunately, the answer is not simple and must be based on a number of parameters. Before we get to the actual determination of the proper stocking density, let's examine some of the issues involved in making that decision.
Seahorse Gastroenterology
One of the peculiarities of seahorses that makes them more difficult to keep than other marine fish is their tremendously abbreviated digestive tract. The distance between a seahorse's mouth and its anus is so short that when it eats something, there is precious little time for its gastric system to draw nutrients from the meal before it is eliminated, and, therefore, a seahorse has a very difficult time storing energy. The best way to combat this evolutionary predicament is to supply your herd with highly nutritious foods in relatively large quantities each day. This will allow for the maintenance of high metabolic activity, retention of body mass, and prevention of nutritional deficiencies, by providing a steady supply of nutrients to the digestive tract of each horse.

Seahorse Locomotion
Another reason that the seemingly simple question of stocking density poses such a problem is that seahorses are somewhat lazy hunters. The more they must forage for food, the more energy seahorses must expend, and in a large, sparsely stocked tank, this can pose a serious problem for maintaining the health of your herd. There seems to be a natural, built-in meter that tells them when enough is enough, such that if a seahorse does not find food after expending a certain amount of energy, he or she will stop hunting and find a place to hitch. In this "energy-conservation mode," the horse will wait patiently for something edible to happen by so that very little effort must be given in order to feed. This is especially true in tanks with too much current. The excess water flow causes the horses to over-exert while swimming (due to the fact that they are poor swimmers) and they, consequently, exhaust themselves. Further compounding the issue, the energy expended to "snick" up food is also significant, so if the horses are tired from swimming around in heavy current chasing their dinner, they may not have the energy to eat what they have finally caught up to!

Now, imagine if you will, a single four-inch-long seahorse in a 20-gallon tank with pumps and filters blowing. Those 20 gallons are a lot of territory to cover each time that little horse wants to eat. It would be similar to you living in a 10,000-square-foot home, and whenever you were hungry, having to search every square inch of the place for a meal. Couple this with the aforementioned physiological handicap relating to nutrition, and you can see how keeping your herd well and properly fed can be quite a dilemma. As a seahorse keeper, you may opt to target feed your horse(s), but that can rapidly become inconvenient, does not give the fish a chance to actually hunt, and is not a guarantee that the horses will get to the food before it is swept away. As an alternative, I recommend the proper stocking density for your tank dimensions and volume.

Stocking Density
The reason that this ratio is important and can alleviate the previously addressed issues is that seahorses will often take cues from each other regarding feeding, such that if one seahorse finds food and another hasn't, the one without food will move to where the food is. The importance of this behavior increases in direct proportion to tank size. The larger the tank, the more difficult it becomes to find food. You don't want to overfeed the tank in order to make food more available to the horses because then water quality will suffer, so having more horses provides far greater chances of at least one finding food and notifying the other of where it is. However, a delicate balance must be maintained between the number of seahorses housed and the size of the actual tank. You will want to avoid overstocking your tank, but to a certain point, more seahorses are better. As a rule of thumb, a 25-gallon "tall" tank (24" long x 12.5" wide x 20" tall) will house four to 14 horses, depending on species, size, and the desired stocking level. Bear in mind, though, the more room you give them the happier they will be, so it truly is a tricky balance between space and stocking density.

 

And here's what Pete Giwojna of Ocean Rider said regarding recommended stock density.

 

Dear Felicia:

The recommended stocking density for large tropical seahorses such as Ocean Rider Mustangs and Sunbursts (Hippocampus erectus) is one pair per 10 gallons, with a minimum tank size of 30 gallons.

In other words, a 30-gallon aquarium system with an efficient filtration system like yours could safely support up to three pairs of ponies or six adult individuals when it was stocked at capacity, Felicia.

Of course, it's always better to keep an aquarium under stocked in order to provide you with a better margin for error, especially if you are new to seahorses, and we also have to allow for the live corals and other specimens that are sharing the aquarium. But I would say you should have no problem at all keeping three or four Mustangs and/or Sunbursts (Hippocampus erectus) in the aquarium with its current inhabitants, Felicia.

And I must say that I think the seahorses will be very happy with the outstanding habitat you have provided for them, Felicia! Judging from the photographs you provided, you have created a perfect playground for your ponies – their own personal patch of Paradise, a veritable undersea Garden of Eden – and they should feel right at home amidst all the live corals and gorgonia! (The purple Cirripathes spiralis looks great in the corner of the tank, and I love the tight corkscrew it makes as it spirals.)

[JLynn]

Just as long as you're being careful! Good to hear that you are. I was pretty worried what with all the vehement posts on reefcentral and seahorse.org about only keeping one pair in a 30g. Anyone here have experience with chlorodesmis? I am a little concerned about choosing that as a ground cover for my tank when I know nothing about it other than that it looks like Bryopsis...

[Felicia]

Just as long as you're being careful! Good to hear that you are. I was pretty worried what with all the vehement posts on reefcentral and seahorse.org about only keeping one pair in a 30g. Anyone here have experience with chlorodesmis? I am a little concerned about choosing that as a ground cover for my tank when I know nothing about it other than that it looks like Bryopsis...

Yeah, I definitely want to do things right and keep my seahorses happy! Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of very opinionated people on some of the other forums who consider themselves seahorse experts. However, the more I read and research, the more I realize that the knowledge about seahorse care is changing constantly. There are a lot of very out of date views still around and there are still a lot of things unknown about how to best care for seahorses. There just isn't as much info out there as there is for more common reef fish, so a lot of it is just trying to decide what you think is best. If I ever notice that my seahorses seem crowded, I will of course figure out an upgrade or something because I want to have healthy seahorses. However, I went with Pete Giwojna's recommendation since he's spent a very long time keeping seahorses successfully and writes a lot of good articles about seahorse care. Honestly, even my 4 ponies can "get lost" in my tank because there are so many gorgonians. The water quality is great and I'm not seeing any issues with crowding or lack of territory, so I really think they are very content in my tank.

 

Sorry, but I had never heard of that algae until you mentioned it. It does look like hair algae, which is a tad bit concerning. Personally, I love a carpet of colorful ricordea and that's the route I went for part of my tank There's a seller on ebay I got mine from that sells a 10 pack of mixed colors for only $109 including shipping.

[JLynn]

Honestly, even my 4 ponies can "get lost" in my tank because there are so many gorgonians. The water quality is great and I'm not seeing any issues with crowding or lack of territory, so I really think they are very content in my tank.

 

Glad to hear it! It's cute that they get lost.

 

Sorry, but I had never heard of that algae until you mentioned it. It does look like hair algae, which is a tad bit concerning. Personally, I love a carpet of colorful ricordea and that's the route I went for part of my tank There's a seller on ebay I got mine from that sells a 10 pack of mixed colors for only $109 including shipping.

Cool! Well, I looked Chlorodesmis up on marine plant book and apparently it grows at a medium rate, which is promising, but the care level was marked as difficult, which is a bit worrying. May give it a trial run in a 'fuge and see how things go.

 

Zia, what lights do you have on your SH tank? I am trying to choose a lighting fixture right now- which is incredibly difficult when your tank dimensions are 20x20- and I really like the look of them.

[21093r53]

great threaD

[Zia]

Glad to hear it! It's cute that they get lost. Cool! Well, I looked Chlorodesmis up on marine plant book and apparently it grows at a medium rate, which is promising, but the care level was marked as difficult, which is a bit worrying. May give it a trial run in a 'fuge and see how things go. Zia, what lights do you have on your SH tank? I am trying to choose a lighting fixture right now- which is incredibly difficult when your tank dimensions are 20x20- and I really like the look of them.

 

My tank is very similar in dims. 24x24x20H I'm running a gen 1 Radion at 60%, 10'' from the water line. It's plenty of light even on the sand bed level.

[Felicia]

Zia, what lights do you have on your SH tank? I am trying to choose a lighting fixture right now- which is incredibly difficult when your tank dimensions are 20x20- and I really like the look of them.

My tank is 20"x18"x20" and I'm planning to upgrade in the next month or so to the Maxspect Razor Nano. Probably not as awesome as the Radion, but more affordable and those fixtures have been getting great reviews.

[JLynn]

Thanks for the input. My biggest hang up on lighting is price. I would prefer to go LED, but fixtures like Radions are beyond my price range. To get a Radion I would literally have to save every spare penny for 11 months. Not happening. I guess I ought to give the Razor Nano another look, though. It is cheaper. Has anyone tried using it in a planted tank yet? I know it has good enough PAR for softies, but I am suspicious about its ability to support macro algae.

[Felicia]

Thanks for the input. My biggest hang up on lighting is price. I would prefer to go LED, but fixtures like Radions are beyond my price range. To get a Radion I would literally have to save every spare penny for 11 months. Not happening. I guess I ought to give the Razor Nano another look, though. It is cheaper. Has anyone tried using it in a planted tank yet? I know it has good enough PAR for softies, but I am suspicious about its ability to support macro algae.

It seems that people with mixed reefs in the biocubes and nanocubes have been using the Razor nano fixtures and are pretty happy with it. It seems powerful enough to support most corals (not just softies), so I think it would be just fine for macros. I'd just saw get the 10000k version instead of the 16000k version if you have predominately macros. Here's the PAR chart from Maxspect:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/images/a-85135-PAR-Graph.gif