Jump to content
sangheili

Sangheili's Innovative Marine Nuvo 24 - aka How I ruined my carpet

Recommended Posts

sangheili

For those of you using Purigen:

 

Yesterday I put a regen-ed bag of Purigen back in the tank (bleach for a day + prime for 2 days) and this morning I woke up to some interesting things. First off the ORP dropped off a cliff shortly after placing the bag in the media basket. It went from 230 to 170. This is the lowest i've ever seen ORP on this tank.

 

Secondly the pH dropped the lowest I've seen in weeks. And the odd thing is now there is some stringy mucus in the tank in some spots. Very similar to the slime that my Wrasse puts off when sleeping but its not in the areas where he sleeps.

 

Hopefully this slime is harmless and the orp/ph changes didn't hurt anything. Some quick research says this isn't the first time people have reported these things after Purigen regen.

 

A picture of my ORP and pH graphs:

zR8qSma.png

Share this post


Link to post
sangheili

Triton Labs water test results are in...

 

VG1Vaq1.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
sangheili

Brain dump incoming... feel free to refute my points.

 

So I have decided to go down the path of zero water changes. I've been playing with the idea for a few months after researching Triton and GlennF's methods.

 

The past couple days I've probably spent 20+ hrs researching every different brand of salt trying to figure out what would be "best".

 

Heres a simple summary of my thoughts on salt mixes:

  • Almost every salt mix has numerous examples of failed batches. Even my favored brands like Red Sea and Tropic Marin. Super low alk, clumped salt, tank crashing "film", etc
  • Every salt is different from batch to batch. Some are more consistent then others but none is perfect.
  • Every bucket/case of salt mix can be inconsistent if not used in it's entirety. The contents can shift during shipment and may become less thoroughly mixed as a result. It is possibly to mix the container manually but this will be messy and introduce moisture to the salt, further exacerbating the issue.
  • How you mix the salt makes a huge difference. If you mix too long it may precipitate from CO2 dropping the pH. If you mix too short it may not have time for the alk to rise. If you mix too hot it will precipitate much more and your alk/calc will be considerably lower then expected.
  • Most salts use an anti-caking and heavy metals binding agent that leaves behind a messy crud on your mixing container. This is not really crud I want in my tank.

With those points in mind, looking at a simple water change we have:

  • Instability #1: Salt usually has different alk/calc/mag/pH/temp levels then your tank. This varies but trying to match all parameters is nearly impossible.
  • Instability #2: Salt has almost no PO4/Nitrate which can shock some corals (SPS doesn't like a rapid drop in PO4, Clams can starve with no nutrients, etc)

The goal of water changes are usually three fold:

  1. Nutrient export - Between my skimmer, Zeobak, Zeostart, and GFO/Carbon I can sustain PO4 and Nitrate levels at exactly where I want them to be with zero water changes. Water changes have to be large to make any real dent in this problem and with larger water changes comes more instability (If you have a Nitrate reading of 10 and you do a 10% water change to reduce it, guess what, now you have a Nitrate reading of 9. Woo hoo.)
  2. Replenishment of major elements - In order for a water change to replace alk/calk/mag at the level a tank like mine consumes it, the changes must be huge and/or have extremely elevated levels. Both of these possibilities lead to large swings in the elements over time.
  3. Replenishment of trace elements - First this assumes that your salt mix has the exact levels of each trace element you desire. Second this assumes the salt is not adding heavy metals and things you DON'T want. Third, corals all consume different elements are different rates. And like all the points above, in order to really replenish something with a water change you need to do a large change or a small change with elevated levels.

Do I still need water changes? Yes, in some scenarios. If some levels are elevated which cannot be removed from the water mechanically or biologically then water changes will be required to fix the problem. Also, water must be replaced when I drip acclimate new livestock and some water is removed by my skimmer. So I can't get away from it completely but I can greatly reduce it.

 

With all this in mind, I believe the best way to achieve stability is to limit the water changes and focus on testing (both hobby kits and Triton tests) and dosing of what is consumed by the tank. Right now I am debating on purchasing a Pacific Sun 5-head dosing unit. I'm currently using kalk in top off water but the more I think about it, it's not a good idea. Evaporation rates change with humidity changes (if windows are open) and with the temp of the tank (fan cooling = evaporation). None of this will help consistency and it will make trying to figure out my consumption rates of alk/calc very difficult.

 

TLDR; I'm not longer going to change the water in my tank. Instead, test more and dose more accurately. Science and data vs. brute force.

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
TeamIM24

Thank you for posting your research on this. I will be following along and I am interested to see how this turns out for you and what you learn along the way.

Share this post


Link to post
TeamIM24

TLDR; I'm not longer going to change the water in my tank. Instead, test more and dose more accurately. Science and data vs. brute force.

Any updates on how this is going so far?

Share this post


Link to post
sangheili

Any updates on how this is going so far?

 

Going great so far. I bought a Pacific Sun 5th Doser and have had it up and running about a week now. Alk is super stable now.

 

Starting the process of moving to a bigger tank now also. Probably going to just buy a Cadlights 100g setup. I'll be moving in the next month or so.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
TeamIM24

Going great so far. I bought a Pacific Sun 5th Doser and have had it up and running about a week now. Alk is super stable now.

 

Starting the process of moving to a bigger tank now also. Probably going to just buy a Cadlights 100g setup. I'll be moving in the next month or so.

Thanks for the update. I will be following along. At some point we are going to upgrade to a larger tank and this really interests me since the precision of dosing seems a lot easier than the larger water changes a larger tank would need.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
sangheili

Acclimating right now...

 

Paid 3 bills for these clams shipped during Black Friday omgomgomg The black/gold Crocea is wicked.

 

XnB6HXk.jpg

 

 

Thanks for the update. I will be following along. At some point we are going to upgrade to a larger tank and this really interests me since the precision of dosing seems a lot easier than the larger water changes a larger tank would need.

 

 

 

I probably should have tipped you off to Pacific Sun's black friday sale. They had their 5 channel doser 20% off. Insane Insane Insane value.

 

Here's a pic of my doser setup:

0tWhJ0t.jpg

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
sangheili

A better pic of the sweet Crocea next to my hybrid:

 

Z3cEkMG.jpg

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
lilmatty5dimes

Dang those are some serious sexy clams.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
SquishyFishy

I am also interested in this concept...as the LFS guy changes his water only about every 40 days. The only problem is he doesn't dose anything. His display tanks always look pristine and insanely growing. He had to chop some leather hand because it was taking his whole 75 g tank over. He has clams also. I was always amazed when he told me how he cares for his tanks...so simple.

 

I'll be watching. I only have 16 g and really can't afford to buy all those dosers. So I consider water change the lazy man's solution...but it is a PITA! My tank is flourishing with just that, but if I could avoid it I would.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recommended Discussions

×
×
  • Create New...