CNCreef Asis Pro 824 LED/T5HO Evil Cluster Hybrid

[McJosh13]

I've thought about building a dual cluster on a Makers sink or something, then loaning it out for reefers to evaluate on their own tanks as long as they pay shipping. That way people can compare it to existing rigs or commercial LED fixtures and do their own evaluation.

 

Now that would be a good idea. Especially if it was loaned to reefers with known photography skills/equipment so we can get accurate comparison photos

[Amdphenomx4]

I got an email from Milad saying that my order of LDD-1000HW should be shipped today, so your order should be as well.

[jedimasterben]

Mine won't be going out on the 30th, now. I switched mine to the LDD H instead of the HW, and McJosh is sending me some extra boards.

[Horerczy]

Ben is there a good reason not to use the 5600K Bridgelux arrays over the 4000K arrays besides personal preference.

[jedimasterben]

Color rendition.

 

Rule of thumb, never use cool white LEDs. Any cool white.

[Horerczy]

Makes sense I guess. Looks like I'm ordering those 1350 lumen neutral whites then. Thanks.

[dacdaddy]

Ben I think my last post got caught up in the page switch. I was wondering why you had so many true violets on your new build. Are that many necessary? Let me know what you think. Thanks in advance

[jedimasterben]

Ben I think my last post got caught up in the page switch. I was wondering why you had so many true violets on your new build. Are that many necessary? Let me know what you think. Thanks in advance

Whoops. #1, they're PAR monsters. #2, that's the peak of chlorophyll a, so I'm gonna see if there could be any true growth benefits with them, or if it is just on paper.

[dacdaddy]

Whoops. #1, they're PAR monsters. #2, that's the peak of chlorophyll a, so I'm gonna see if there could be any true growth benefits with them, or if it is just on paper.

 

Don't you also run the risk of frying everything, even though we can't see the PAR at that low wavelength with the human eye?

[jedimasterben]

Of course. This light will be able to fry anything, probably even clams if I don't hang it high enough. I have a PAR meter to measure it.

[Tripwyr]

Of course. This light will be able to fry anything, probably even clams if I don't hang it high enough. I have a PAR meter to measure it.

 

Can't remember where I read it, but my understanding is that clams cannot fry unless improperly acclimated. Since nobody has been able to discover an absorption maxima (up to a few thousand par), it is unlikely any light we create will be capable of reaching that maximum.

 

EDIT: Here it is. I overestimated the test PAR, but as you can see in this article, T. Maxima does not show any any indication of photosynthetic saturation or photoinhibition at 600 PAR.

[dacdaddy]

How high do you think you're gonna be hanging it? I am really interested in this build.

 

You have any familiarity or opinion with Acan Lighting?

[jedimasterben]

Can't remember where I read it, but my understanding is that clams cannot fry unless improperly acclimated. Since nobody has been able to discover an absorption maxima (up to a few thousand par), it is unlikely any light we create will be capable of reaching that maximum.

 

EDIT: Here it is. I overestimated the test PAR, but as you can see in http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/3/aafeature1'>this article, T. Maxima does not show any any indication of photosynthetic saturation or photoinhibition at 600 PAR.

It was mostly a joke about burning clams.

 

In the wild, clams live usually in 10ft of water, and can receive over 2000 PAR, but to prevent photo inhibition, they just retract part of their mantle, and only open up fully when there is less light. Rarely will you see a picture of a clam with a fully extended mantle in the wild.

How high do you think you're gonna be hanging it? I am really interested in this build.

 

You have any familiarity or opinion with Acan Lighting?

Probably around 18"

 

Never really heard of them.

[Tripwyr]

It was mostly a joke about burning clams. In the wild, clams live usually in 10ft of water, and can receive over 2000 PAR, but to prevent photo inhibition, they just retract part of their mantle, and only open up fully when there is less light. Rarely will you see a picture of a clam with a fully extended mantle in the wild.

 

My understanding is that they can also adjust the pigment in their mantle to refract light differently and allow them to utilize light more efficiently than other photosynthetic animals.

[blasterman]

Ben is there a good reason not to use the 5600K Bridgelux arrays over the 4000K arrays besides personal preference

 

It's really just aethestic. This why I try to encourage people to try a neutral rig first in small scale. Radically different color rendition than the typical commercial cool-white / royal based LED system. The neutral based chip simply does a better job matching the higher end halides in the ~14k range, although some reefers will always prefer 20k or so. Evil has a video of one over a big tank.

 

With most commercial LED rigs being based on cool white, if you're going DIY why not get the better color option?

 

If your goal was to build a cool-white and royal based light then an Evil cluster would still provide the same benefits. Per lumen / PAR dollar it would still be a cheaper than a Cree based light and only hair less efficient, if at all. Plus, a fraction the solder joints to screw around with. I really have no idea why reefers are using hordes of 3watt Crees on big lights...except they are getting brain washed over at RC. The aquastyle kits practically give the LEDs away for free.

 

A5600k Bridgelux BXRA-56C1600-B-00 throws like 1800-1900 lumens. Has 130lumens per watt efficacy and better color than an XM-L and most bins of XP-Gs, and costs $11.15 right now. It would take at least two XM-Ls or four XP-Gs beaten at their max current to match the out-put of the 56C run at stock, and the XM-Ls would consume more power per lumen at that current. Ring the 56C with Luxeon M's and you've got a halide buster with not that many solders to worry about, and very low disco issues. By my estimates that light would throw about the same PAR as a Kessil A350, and cost half as much. Insanely easy to build. Color would be better with the Bridgelux over the Kessil.

 

I'll make an offer that anybody that wants to try one, and has a mid to large tank that has a established and diverse coral load can do so if they want to share shipping costs, which will be cheap. All they have to do is post pics. The reason I'm having a hard time doing this is my tanks are too small for the cluster, and while reef shops go nutz when I bring one of my lights in they don't like pictures taken if they are selling competiting lights for obvious reasons. Thing is, I ain't selling anything....just trying to up the bar when it comes to color standards and give people some options over 3watt DIY.

[jedimasterben]

One thing's for sure - none of my tanks will be using '3w' class LEDs for NW or RB. Not even the small ones

 

Also, a question for you, blasterman. When I went to order the 950B from Newark, the model number is BXRA-40E0950-B-00, but there is also a BXRA-40E0950B-03. I can't find any data on it, it's not in Bridgelux's datasheets. Do you think it's just a higher-binned 950? It's more expensive. http://www.newark.com/bridgelux/bxra-40e0950-b-03/led-hb-es-rectangle-array-neutral/dp/05W7386

Also, did you get your Luxeon M in yet?

[Amdphenomx4]

One thing's for sure - none of my tanks will be using '3w' class LEDs for NW or RB. Not even the small ones

 

Also, a question for you, blasterman. When I went to order the 950B from Newark, the model number is BXRA-40E0950-B-00, but there is also a BXRA-40E0950B-03. I can't find any data on it, it's not in Bridgelux's datasheets. Do you think it's just a higher-binned 950? It's more expensive. http://www.newark.com/bridgelux/bxra-40e0950-b-03/led-hb-es-rectangle-array-neutral/dp/05W7386

 

Also, did you get your Luxeon M in yet?

From the datasheet on page 3, it is color binning.

 

 

IJ – Designates CCT Bin options

3000K as an example:

00 = Full ANSI: Q3, Q4, R3, R4

03 = 3 SDCM

 

So the 03 is a bit better for color tolerance between emitters. I'm going to assume Bridgelux uses the standard ANSI designations and thus the equivalent of a 7 Step SDCM, so the 3 step SDCM is much better color wise. A 1 step SDCM is of color tolerance the eye cannot see.

 

As I made the post here, I might as well add that I'm just waiting for drivers to run my little test rig of 6 Luxeon Ms.

[blasterman]

Stopped into a local reef store where I had done some of my previous testing, and talked to the new owner. He was wanting to yank out his remaining 400watt halides, but had tried several commercial LED fixtures and was unimpressed with the color. The units he had in store (and he didn't like) we're the typical assortment of 3watt based fixtures we see bantered around here. I don't want to give names.

 

One unit had both discrete red and green LEDs, and while it made a nice white light around 10000k I was utterly unimpressed with the color. Think 10000k T5 with a single 420 added in. One of the other lights was just running cool-whites and royals, and frankly I thought it beat the 'full spectrum' in terms of punch. In any case, we're talking lighting one or two of his show tanks with Evil Clusters. Prolly do it for cost given he has some nice, rimless stock tanks. A chance for some killer video and pictures.

[dacdaddy]

How difficult would it be to hook up a DIY Evil cluster to an Apex Controller?

[Horerczy]

How difficult would it be to hook up a DIY Evil cluster to an Apex Controller?

that's pretty much dependant on the type and number of drivers you choose.

[dacdaddy]

that's pretty much dependant on the type and number of drivers you choose.

Are the meanwell drivers apex ready? They seem like the go-to driver as of now, but I can't find anything about that. If not, do you know which ones are doable? I'm having trouble finding info like that.

 

I would love to set up a 'sink with 3-4 clusters and have it with optimal controlability. My problem is I'm a total noob and as much as I can read about this I need to conjure up some experience, but I want to make sure I do this right the first time if I'm gonna spend a lot of money on it

[Horerczy]

Are the meanwell drivers apex ready? They seem like the go-to driver as of now, but I can't find anything about that. If not, do you know which ones are doable? I'm having trouble finding info like that.

 

I would love to set up a 'sink with 3-4 clusters and have it with optimal controlability. My problem is I'm a total noob and as much as I can read about this I need to conjure up some experience, but I want to make sure I do this right the first time if I'm gonna spend a lot of money on it

Any driver that uses 0-10v dimming is capable. So D series Meanwells are capable of it. I like the Inventronics ones better myself. Also MakersDrivers are capable of 0-10v dimming while utilizing Meanwell LDD which are normally PWM controlled.

 

How big of a tank are we talking about lighting? Gives a better idea of which drivers would suit your build best.

[dacdaddy]

I have a 57 rimless 36"x18"x20". I'd essentially want a cluster similar to what ben intro'd on this thread and controllable. What you think?

[jedimasterben]

Depends on which Meanwell drivers you choose. The Apex only outputs a 0-10v 'analog' signal.

[Psychosis]

That's it, I'll be sending you irritating PM's until I can figure out how to construct something along these lines for my new build. Like it.