CNCreef Asis Pro 824 LED/T5HO Evil Cluster Hybrid

[MeepNand]

I just browse ebay with the keywords "Pentium cooler" and I look for flat bottomed heatsinks with a fan attached to it.

[laatto3]

Interesting. I really wish I would have separated out my 'exotics' so I could run them on different drivers. I do remember from about a year ago, I think, when I had them separated, that cyan did help out with some red corals I have, but it's been so long that I can't fully remember. I'll have a few cyans on this build, so I'll let everyone know how they do.

 

One of my favourite pieces in my tank is a pink birdsnest and under halides it looks great. I also have 4 other corals that are red, mostly encrusting montis and a lobophyllia. The lobo and encrusting montis fluoresce like crazy with cool blue added but don't appear to pop as much with straight NW+RB (Luxeons from Steve). The pink birdsnest does not appear to have any fluorescent pigments so looks crap under a NW+RB+CB but I did notice a significant improvement in this coral alone when including the cyan. I guess if your all your red corals flouresce then you might not need cyan added in but from my experience, if you have any non-flourescent reds in your tank then you do gain something from its inclusion. I am pretty new to LED's so please don't take this as gospel, just my experience.

[jedimasterben]

Those three regular stars are the cool blue, right?

Two cool blue, one cyan.

 

How small could you make this fixture? Do you have a size comparison pic or a ruler? It looks just a few inches across.

It isn't big. I will get a pic like that soon. I'd say its around 5" across?

 

The size of these fixtures is likely dictated by heat dissipation, not diode size. I have a few ideas in mind for dealing with heat and making a smaller fixture.

As long as it is actively cooled, I don't think heat will be too much of an issue. Even thin heat sinks are surprisingly good at cooling with a good fan.

 

Is this based on spec? My understanding was that Luxeon M runs up to 6200mW and the 950b runs up to 2000 lumens. This would equal around 6200mW per 1000 lumens of (4000k) white assuming 2 Luxeon M to 1 950b.

Based on what is most readily available, Luxeons from Steve's are a bit better bin than stock.

 

Well, heat can be dealt with by using a CPU cooler; they usually cool at least 60w effectively IME. I am more worried about space.

CPU coolers are very effective, but too small physically, and usually loud.

 

One of my favourite pieces in my tank is a pink birdsnest and under halides it looks great. I also have 4 other corals that are red, mostly encrusting montis and a lobophyllia. The lobo and encrusting montis fluoresce like crazy with cool blue added but don't appear to pop as much with straight NW+RB (Luxeons from Steve). The pink birdsnest does not appear to have any fluorescent pigments so looks crap under a NW+RB+CB but I did notice a significant improvement in this coral alone when including the cyan. I guess if your all your red corals flouresce then you might not need cyan added in but from my experience, if you have any non-flourescent reds in your tank then you do gain something from its inclusion. I am pretty new to LED's so please don't take this as gospel, just my experience.

As far as I know, there are no known pink fluorescent proteins, so we pretty much need to rely on excellent color rendition and specific wavelengths being provided. Thanks for sharing your experience, this is how we move forward!

[MeepNand]

CPU coolers are too small? I think it varies with the size you get; most are 60mm but some are longer and have more fans.

The noise is actually not bad if you only run the fan at 9v or so. Although they are definitely louder than stealth fans.

 

And your quotes don't show Jedi.

[jedimasterben]

CPU coolers are too small? I think it varies with the size you get; most are 60mm but some are longer and have more fans.

The noise is actually not bad if you only run the fan at 9v or so. Although they are definitely louder than stealth fans.

I've got plenty of CPU coolers that are larger than 60mm... but not their base, which is the only place you can mount anything too. Definitely too loud for anything I'd ever use.

 

And your quotes don't show Jedi.

Just fixed them. My iPad doesn't like the forum for some reason.

[Tripwyr]

As long as it is actively cooled, I don't think heat will be too much of an issue. Even thin heat sinks are surprisingly good at cooling with a good fan.

 

How much so? I was actually looking at the low profile heatsink, but I'm not sure if it would be sufficient, even with a fan on it. The fan I was looking at is 140mm 64.5 CFM. I'm not sure if that would be sufficient for approx. 75W of LED at around 6x6" of heatsink. I may end up redesigning my arrays to accommodate a longer heatsink.

[jedimasterben]

How much so? I was actually looking at the low profile heatsink, but I'm not sure if it would be sufficient, even with a fan on it. The fan I was looking at is 140mm 64.5 CFM. I'm not sure if that would be sufficient for approx. 75W of LED at around 6x6" of heatsink. I may end up redesigning my arrays to accommodate a longer heatsink.

Never heard of that fan, but if you want creme de la creme, grab a Scythe Gentle Typhoon AP15.

 

The C/W rating is kinda high on that one, but I think with enough air movement it may be ok, but without testing it myself, I can't say for sure. :/

[Tripwyr]

Never heard of that fan, but if you want creme de la creme, grab a Scythe Gentle Typhoon AP15.

 

The C/W rating is kinda high on that one, but I think with enough air movement it may be ok, but without testing it myself, I can't say for sure. :/

 

I chose the Cougar Turbine because it is a larger fan, has a lower noise rating and puts out a higher airflow. Compare:

 

Scythe - 120mm, 28 dBA, 98 m^3/h

Cougar - 140mm, 17.9 dBA, 109.6 m^3/h

 

Both of the heatsinks I was looking at, Low Profile and 5.886" are actually larger than the 140mm fan at 154mm and 149mm respectively. However, should I choose a 120mm fan, I'm still not sure the Scythe is the best choice. I won't argue it's reputation, but I think it's technology has stagnated over the past few years.

 

I'll wait and see how the cooling on your array works out, I should be able to come to a solution based on that.

[jedimasterben]

That fan looks interesting and is well-liked and have good performance. I wonder if it's based on Sony's fluid bearings like the GT. I've been using Yate-Loon D12SL-12 in all my PC systems, and right now on my radiators, for years now, and have only had two out of 15 fail, but it's because I am a bit lax in keeping all the cat hair out of them.

[blasterman]

Two cool blue, one cyan.

 

Should be OK then. As long as you have cool blue dominant in the third mix then by all means experiment away.

 

Also, color balancing with a big neutral and royals is a lot less 'subjective' than color balancing with cool whites and royals. The 'sweet spot' will be fairly narrow due to the relative warmth of the neutral, which makes things easy as long as you have good control over dimming. After dialing in mine I brought it to a couple local reef shops, and was shockingly close to their 14K phoenix bulbs in terms of objective color temp. Another trick is to aim the light at a white ceiling to see the overlaps. I'm not familiar with the optics over the Luxeon M's, although in theory we're close.

This is much easier with an established tank, and because my 20long was already over grown it was pretty easy to balance. If you don't have an established tank try a local reef shop. Be surprised how some are ok with trying out your light source. You'll spank their cheaper halides and LED lights.

[Tripwyr]

That fan looks interesting and is well-liked and have good performance. I wonder if it's based on Sony's fluid bearings like the GT. I've been using Yate-Loon D12SL-12 in all my PC systems, and right now on my radiators, for years now, and have only had two out of 15 fail, but it's because I am a bit lax in keeping all the cat hair out of them.

 

I won't lie, it has been over 4 years since I last looked for aftermarket cooling fans. The ones I bought previously I ended up selling at less than 25% of their original value because they didn't quite fit the way they should have. I'm now kicking myself for that, but this fan is currently on sale for 7.99 each, so I'll probably just go ahead and pick up 4 of them. If they don't work for my array, I'll just stick them into my PC.

 

Whatever my current PC has in it are the most reliable fans I've ever owned. Almost 3.5 years now they've been running solid, only cleaned once a little over 8 months ago. Forget cat hair, it holds nothing to the various contaminants these fans have seen. They just keep on spinning.

[ToolboySA]

Just a thought on heatsink temp. Why could we not mount the led to flat relatively thick sheet of aluminium then put peltier chip on the reverse side and put our normal heat sinks on top of them

[laatto3]

Any thoughts on using a Makers heat sink for these clusters?

[jedimasterben]

Just a thought on heatsink temp. Why could we not mount the led to flat relatively thick sheet of aluminium then put peltier chip on the reverse side and put our normal heat sinks on top of them

Because of the large amount of power it would require? 100% defeats the main purpose of using LEDs.

 

Any thoughts on using a Makers heat sink for these clusters?

It would work, but can't use any optics.

[disaster999]

since theres a small discussion of fans...ill put in my 2 cents.

 

im a fan of the noctua fans. quiet, high performance and relatively great reviews on the net.

 

i have a 180mm silverstone air penetrator fan from a computer case which have 80-130cfm of flow which would be awesome for a light build.

[Tripwyr]

since theres a small discussion of fans...ill put in my 2 cents.

 

im a fan of the noctua fans. quiet, high performance and relatively great reviews on the net.

 

i have a 180mm silverstone air penetrator fan from a computer case which have 80-130cfm of flow which would be awesome for a light build.

 

180 mm would be too large for the heatsink I am using. The noctua fans are definitely high quality fans, but I think they are unnecessarily expensive for this project, and I don't think they have any spec advantages over the fan I linked above.

 

I presume ben already has his fans/already selected them too.

[jedimasterben]

I have a box of Yate-Loon fans from an old project...

 

 

 

 

 

 

That thing was ghetto as shit, but awesome.

[chachew]

^^LOL nice setup. I thought my water cooled case was huge..

[disaster999]

180 mm would be too large for the heatsink I am using. The noctua fans are definitely high quality fans, but I think they are unnecessarily expensive for this project, and I don't think they have any spec advantages over the fan I linked above.

 

I presume ben already has his fans/already selected them too.

yeah they are a bit on the expensive side esp if they will be subjected to salty evap from the tank. just couldnt help express my love for them haha

 

im still wondering what im going to do with that 180mm fan. might turn it into a desk fan haha

[blasterman]

From a physics perspective I recall peltier coolers are less efficient than a low RPM fan on a decently sized sink.....and you still have to move the heat somewhere.

 

The Makers heat sink has an absurdly thin base, so it's has very little energy storage. Frankly I think you guys are nuts for driving a 10watt LED or Luxeon M off such thin metal because if the fan ever quits for even a short time you're screwed. 1/4" base is the thinnest I'll trust with a 6watt or higher Bridgelux....but do what you want.

 

The cost and issues with heatsinking is a reason I'm seeing more mainstream lighting use distributed and lower powered SMDs.

[Tripwyr]

The Makers heat sink has an absurdly thin base, so it's has very little energy storage. Frankly I think you guys are nuts for driving a 10watt LED or Luxeon M off such thin metal because if the fan ever quits for even a short time you're screwed. 1/4" base is the thinnest I'll trust with a 6watt or higher Bridgelux....but do what you want.

 

The cost and issues with heatsinking is a reason I'm seeing more mainstream lighting use distributed and lower powered SMDs.

 

This is another concern I've been considering. Even the low profile from heatsinkusa is 1/4", but the thermal resistance is far too high to manage a fan failure. I'm not sure how I'll be dealing with that issue. Still a fair amount of iteration for me before I build the fixture in 3-4 months.

 

I would never use a makers heat sink. They are poor quality heat sinks at a premium price. They're also ugly, I'm not sure why people consider them a "professional" looking heat sink; they're very thick with cheap plastic end caps.

[blasterman]

I currently have eight 950Bs (actually the 3500k equivelant) running on two pieces of 4' 3x1 U-channel glued back to back. This gives me 1/4 of an inch of total plate area, and with a sturdy 80mm fan running facing the LED side it stays nice and cool. I originally had this pointed down over plants, but the insane PAR level started killing them, so I flipped it over so it's upfiring off my ceiling. Makes a great room light now and my plants are happier. Actually, this is a highly recommend light for general room lighting because it looks good, easy to build, doesn't need optics, and can be made absurdly bright. +10,000 lumens of 3500k Bridgelux puts to shame HID and fluorescent sources and draws about as much power as a 100watt incan.

 

However, if that fan fails I've got big problems.

 

Most fan faults in DIY rigs tend to be issues other than the fan itself. Something lodges against the fan blocking it, or it slides around. Or the power supply running the fan gets knocked off the power strip due to stupidity, cats playing, etc. We can of course use two fans for redundancy, but unless they're running on independent power supplies they will most likely fail in tandem. This why I prefer to power fans off the main light power supplies because if the power supply faults, big deal. No lights = no heat and no problem. Running fans off a current regulated supply though is easier said than done.

 

I'm contemplating using thermal fuses in some of my designs. I've seen them as low as 72C for tripping, and they're cheap.

[Tripwyr]

I'm contemplating using thermal fuses in some of my designs. I've seen them as low as 72C for tripping, and they're cheap.

 

This is actually something I was planning to do at the suggestion of my coworker. I'd prefer to run a lower profile heatsink with a thermal fuse rather than a larger heatsink capable of passively cooling in case of failure.

 

I was actually planning to use the BXRAs for room lighting in our renovated basement area too.

[laatto3]

Thanks Blasterman and Tripwyr. Those 4 posts actually answered a lot of questions for me.

 

 

 

[laatto3]

What are shadows like with these clusters? My halides currently show distinct shadows on my sps which eventually pale out. This is a significant issue in a tall tank because you are not looking down at the top of corals but mostly side on and in some cases, depending on your height, the underside.