Full spectrum LED layouts

[jedimasterben]

This one

 

 

 

The blue white speckling on the sand and rock is what im referring to.

 

My fixture is still on my work desk. Im trying to decide if I want to add a violet string or two or just buy a commercial fixture at this point. It hasn't even gotten over water yet, and won't if it looks like this, no offense. I'm already into this over $200, a violet channel will add another $100+ plus 80 for the ALC or comparable, I can buy a new self contained light for that. Diffusing should not be a problem if thats what it needs, I was hoping with the bare 120 degree "optics" there would be enough color blending to avoid this. Reason for the question, are these lights bare or do they have lenses??

 

If they are bare and still have disco I think I'm just going to scrap my DIY project, for all the advantages of doing DIY are vapor for me then 1

What you're talking about is shimmer. Take a look at this video here:

 

In that video, I'm using 12x 3up stars (5K white, RB, RB), 6x 3up stars (CB, Cy, DR), and 12x violet (spread apart, but they do not create any color banding since we can't really see them), no lenses on anything. They are arranged over a 24"x12" linear heatsink like this:

 

 

 

When you're dealing with point-source lighting, each source has its own cone of light and its own shadowing it makes when you add surface agitation (a must in a reef tank). There is no way around this. With 3up stars without lenses, they are much better able to combine the light together and help prevent individual color spotlighting, but the water also refracts it, again, with no way around it.

 

The LEDs were around 8" off the water in that video. Back when they were 12" off the water, sometimes I would place a diffuser panel from Home Depot on top of the tank, which eliminated all color banding, despite surface agitation - but also decreasing light output by over 50% (the farther away the diffuser is, the better it works, but also the more it kills output).

 

Unfortunately I do not have a video taken of the tank under the same lighting without the pumps on, so no surface agitation, which eliminates color banding, or with the diffuser panel on.

[farkwar]

I'm fine with shimmer.

 

It's the separation of the two colors while they shimmer that I find objectionable. You say we cant see it, but I see it obviously for some reason, even in your video. I don't need a shot with the pumop off, that would not be indicative anything, reef tanks need tons of surface agitation most of the time.

 

I'm early enough in my project to switch tracks if I need to. But if I go one more step I'll be committed.

 

I can part out what I already have and make an ATS or refugium light if need be. If I need to go with MH over these tanks then so be it, then only the fixture is ugly. My pump for my grow out system comes in tuesday, I can fill the tank after the cement dries, so by weds I can be sure I guess. Ill wait until I have a tank of water to test in any regard before I go further with the LED DIY project.

 

Thank you for your feed back.

[reefernanoman]

Then just leave it be. Not sure how you got the driver to power without a load.

I put everything together and was working fine, but as I was adjusting my timer, I turned the blue string off and on and after that the string turns on and off by itself(flickers on and off). The other string and driver are working fine. Any ideas as to what to check?

[jedimasterben]

A driver turning on and off means that it does not meet the minimum Vf requirements. Meanwell ELN-60 need a minimum of 24v to function.

[reefernanoman]

A driver turning on and off means that it does not meet the minimum Vf requirements. Meanwell ELN-60 need a minimum of 24v to function.

Does this mean that it's not getting enough voltage or it's not driving enough?

[jedimasterben]

It's doesn't have enough voltage on the LED side. Needs a minimum of 24v.

[reefernanoman]

It's doesn't have enough voltage on the LED side. Needs a minimum of 24v.

I am assuming that I must have too much resistance in the wiring(10 royal blues connected). How about the dimmer circuit? Could a problem there cause that too?

[jedimasterben]

The resistance of the wire won't matter. If you're running ten royal blue on a string, at full power (850mA in your case), they'd be running around 29-30v. Dimming down to the 130mA limit on the driver they will still have more than 24v combined. Are all of the LEDs lighting up when they flicker?

[reefernanoman]

I set up the string to run @ 1300ma, per instructions from rapid leds. Yes all the LED'S flicker.

 

They told me to run my different color LED string at 1000ma or less, but I have noticed that every one here is driving their LED's much lower.

[jedimasterben]

Depends on what make of LED. If you're using XT-E, their current limit is 1500mA. XP-E are 1000mA, except red, which is 700mA. Rebels are 1000mA, except royal blue, which is 1500mA. Anything else, limit to 700mA or less.

[reefernanoman]

Depends on what make of LED. If you're using XT-E, their current limit is 1500mA. XP-E are 1000mA, except red, which is 700mA. Rebels are 1000mA, except royal blue, which is 1500mA.Anything else, limit to 700mA or less.

I'm 99% sure on this one, but my meter has to be set on AC current mode correct?

[jedimasterben]

No, LED drivers are constant current DC.

[reefernanoman]

No, LED drivers are constant current DC.

That was my problem, I had my voltmeter to measure AC. I was finally able to adjust the SVR2 correctly, but I noticed something: I would barely turn the SVR to bring the amperage up to 850ma and 1200ma, and not only that, it could go up further than 1300ma. I thought that this driver could only go up to 1300ma? I was reading some comments from a Rapid LED customer and noticed that their driver could also go beyond 1300 and up to 2000ma(which I could also accomplish), so I seem not to be alone on this one.

[jedimasterben]

I don't know about 2000mA, but yes, both the output voltage maximum and current maximum can be adjusted up and down, within reason. Running them higher makes the driver run hotter.

[reefernanoman]

Sorry for the low quality picture, but here is what it looks like after I installed the retro kit

[reefernanoman]

My corals, candy canes and frogspawn seem to love these LED'S. I'm impressed with LED'S.

[Zeadon]

I'm fine with shimmer.

 

It's the separation of the two colors while they shimmer that I find objectionable. You say we cant see it, but I see it obviously for some reason, even in your video. I don't need a shot with the pumop off, that would not be indicative anything, reef tanks need tons of surface agitation most of the time.

 

 

i totally agree, i dislike the colour separation that you get on leds. its because they are point source, so each colour comes from a single point above the aquarium. putting the leds close together and using bare leds as oppose to lens decreases this disco affect. however it wont remove it entirely.

 

i think to get rid of them completely you need to use a diffuser sheet.

 

i am in the process of building my led unit, and this issue is very important to me. i plan on clustering the leds together and then using a diffuser sheet. hoping this will work.

[cocojakes]

okay, I'm building a custom led strip, for a 15 tall and have access to:

 

White 12000k/8000k/4500k

Royal blue 450~455nm

Blue 460~465nm

UV 395~400

Green 520~525

Red 660~665

They all are 3W each. My heat sink is designed with three strips, 9 in each of the outside strips, and 8 in the middle one (so they are offset) what configuration of what leds would you suggest? I have two dimmable drivers that will each have 13 leds on them to allow a morning and night curve.

[cocojakes]

how would a configuration like this do? the bolded LEDs are channel 1 (white) the non bold are channel two (blue/actinic). The controller I have allows for each channel to have its own 24h curve (go up or down in increments of 10% at each hour) so I want the two channels to best be able to replicate the morning, noon, and evening, settings.

[jedimasterben]

I would pay the money and get quality LEDs. You'll need less and it will cost the same.

[cocojakes]

what makes it seem like they are cheap LEDs? i thought 3 watt was kind of the standard high output? if you have any suggestions for full units, I'm not looking to spend more than 300, and really like the idea of being able to program them to dim throughout the day (not just on/off) I've been looking at taotronics, and things similar to the reefbreeders value unit (they don't ship to canada) but as far as the configuration I showed for the custom unit, is there anything particularly wrong with it?

[jedimasterben]

LEDs are not made all the same. They all have very, very different outputs, color temperatures (some of which are just made up, as in the case with most of Chinese origin), spectral coverage, amperage tolerances, voltages, luminous output per watt, etc. Saying that an LED is '3w' actually doesnt mean anything. If they arent being run around 1000mA, they more than likely won't be near 3 watts of power consumed, and that doesnt mean that they are high output. A Cree or Luxeon diode will output nearly double the light of a Chinese knockoff. Royal blue gets even higher than that.

 

If you want something cheap that is plug and play, look at Reefbreeders value fixtures. They aren't made with high-quality parts and will consume more power and emit less light than one using name-brand diodes, but are cheap and easily replaced if they fail. (most name brand LEDs have an L70 rating of 50-70,000 hours, knockoffs will be far less and with much lower thermal tolerances).

[cocojakes]

so in the 300 dollar range, plug and play, is there anything that wouldn't be cheap knockoff? would cheap knock off work for nems LPS and softies? you really seem to be the LED guru around here, have you heard any good from the DSunY product? I have heard good things on others, and it is the unit that I am currently looking at (they will custom build with whatever LEDs I want (of that selection I posted earlier). I don't want to buy crap, but I am a student, and can't break the bank here. I'm not looking to grow clams or super hard SPS corals any time soon.

[jedimasterben]

Not really. I'm not saying they're bad LEDs (actually, yes I am, as a good portion of Chinese-made diodes are terrible, they'll literally sell anything they can for as much as they can, and when people find out their products aren't what they say they are, they change the name of the company and start over) and that they won't grow coral - any light will grow coral, especially SPS, like weeds, as long as the intensity is where it needs to be (a couple hundred PAR).

 

 

I'd do the best you can to avoid anything made and sold from China. There are plenty of US resellers with very similar pricing that you will actually be able to contact if (really, when) you have a problem or a failure. Don't expect them to last 50,000 hours, or the power supplies to be top-notch, and you won't be disappointed.

[cocojakes]

okay, I've been dealing with this company for the past few days, and have been getting immediate responses, in almost flawless english (which is the most amazing part to me haha) but if any light will grow coral if the PAR is high enough, then what is it that separates the high quality american LEDs from the crappy china ones? I don't have a thousand, or even 700 to spend on a light for my tank, as I said before, I'm a poor university student lol the one person that I have found that has used these seems really happy with them, and they're wonderful to deal with so far. I'm not doubting that the cree LEDs are higher quality than the quick and cheap chinese ones, but what difference will I notice in my tank? Especially considering its just a small 15 tall, that will likely get upgraded within a few years when I have my own house and the funds to build a 90 or something larger.

by the way, I greatly appreciate your input and expertise. Thank you so much for taking the time to help me out here, I'm still pretty new, and its very hard to sift through all the information on LEDs. also would this be a decent colour combination on a custom unit? the BOLD boxes are the whites channel, and the non bold are the blues.